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Round and Round We Go

AHHHHHHHHHHHH

*Throws laptop against wall*

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Mike P reply to Mike P on May 17 at 10:57
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After calming down, I want Mitchell simply because he is the only one who said something that makes sense about the team and did a good job with a Raptors team full of soft players that play basically no D.

He also had to deal with a horrible GM in Babcock and was in a place where no one wants to come.

Please let us get Mitchell.

I remember Doug Collins playing when I was a kid and he was one of my favorite players. So, I know I am biased.

But, given that, I agree 100% that I am very upset that they did not interview the Thibs and Mike B. I hope that they hire one of the assistants as the future coach in training. If they do that, I will be very happy with the hire. If they do not, I will be ok with the hire.

I do think it is unrealistic for us to even think that Stefanski would hire an assistant w/ no head coach experience given his head being on the chopping block AND his "friend" EJ choice last year. From the beginning, I believe it was clear they were not going to hire "rookie" head coach even though that would be my preference.

I also remember reading that Collins said that some pieces do not fit this team. Given AI9 is supportive of the hire, that could mean that we may see some trades this off season. And, given hiring Collins is an insider, could this be the first step in firing Stefanski or not renewing his contract??. This team will not need to keep Stefanski around if Collins is the hire.

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johnrosz reply to DeanH on May 17 at 16:42
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How funny would it be if AI9 is in favor of the Collins signing, but then the brass along with Collins decide that Iguodala is the guy that doesn't fit.

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JohnEMagee on May 17 at 10:59
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Tom Thibodeau is currently still working...has he interviewed with anyone (again) this off season.

I think it's possible the sixers didn't like Thibodeau quite a bit last year and thus don't want him near the franchise. I understand that everyone here knows better, with their extensive interaction with Thibodeau and all though.

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Mike P reply to JohnEMagee on May 17 at 11:09
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He's probably just going to be the Celtics coach after Rivers leaves and knows it.

Or he is just a huge dick?

Either way, the three established coaches here are much better then Eddie Jordan already. I'd be okay with Monty being given a chance, but would very much like to see Mitchell as our next head coach.

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JohnEMagee reply to Mike P on May 17 at 11:27
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Based on what we know I prefer Mitchell as well...

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Rich reply to Mike P on May 17 at 13:42
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He could be, but look out for Kevin McHale, Ainge's best friend. One thing I know is that Thibs doesn't mind his salary for an assistant. He still gets paid, and if they win this year, he'll probably get paid more. He's helping to take down superstar after superstar (KOBE your next!). If he wins a championship this year, I don't care anything about his personality. He deserves a job, and I hope the Sixers would be the ones to pull the trigger on that.

We may not know better but these are my reasons for wanting him;
1] E.S. has stated that he tried to fix a weakness [halfcourt offense] with his last hire and by doing that took away from a strength [pressuring "d" and getting out and running].He said he wants a coach that stresses defense.
2] he wanted Van Gundy who wouldn!t take the job but endorsed Thibodeax, who was a former assistant of his, and has some similar qualities.
3] this organization seems fearfull of hiring an assistant without headcoaching experience, but D.Rivers basically says Thibodeax runs their defense and seems to share sideline control of games with Rivers.
4] his resume,in my opinion, makes him a good hire if defense is your first priority.

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JohnEMagee reply to deepsixersuede on May 17 at 11:26
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His resume includes two years as the hot prospect and not getting a job - from multiple teams (a fact many seem to want to ignore)

The organization seems fearful of hiring a coach they'd have to pay a full salary too more than 'assistant', stefanski has only made ONE coaching hire, you read so much into one failed coaching hire it's silly. And the guys the sixers are interviewing with 'experience' are the guys being interviewed by most of the other teams with openings, not to mention the 'giving the assistant a chance' thing is a league wide fear. I don't endorse it but ti indicate that the sixers are somehow out of the ordinary in this issue is disingenuous.

Jeff Van Gundy's endorsement is worth as much to me as the dog crap i walked over this morning.

The sixers were fine defensively under dileo and cheeks - they don't need a massive overhaul they just need a smarter coach - their offense needs work more than their defense in my opinion

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ojr107 reply to JohnEMagee on May 17 at 11:53
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He also extended Cheeks, then fired him a couple months after extending him. That coupled with the Jordan hiring makes me nervous about his coach selecting ability.

I'm not sold on the idea that just because Thibodeau hasn't already been hired, he wouldn't make a good coach. Interview skills do not always correlate with job success, and although it can be inferred at this point that Thibodeau is not gifted in the art of the interview, his success in running the Celtics' defense speaks a lot louder than any "chalk talk" rhetoric.

Also, it's not as though he has failed as a head coach in the past. He hasn't been given the chance, and it does seem that GMs are more willing to hire head coaching failures than assistants. Maybe it's because you can be less certain about how a former assistant will actually run a team ahead of time, and the fear of uncertainty dissuades GMs from making a hire.

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JohnEMagee reply to Jesse on May 17 at 12:28
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His inability to interview well may worry teams because if he can't interview well in a quiet setting how is he going to handle the media.

Some guys aren't cut out to be head coaches - if thibodeau is great at teaching defense but a horrible communicator - he makes a shit head coach

They are very true statements.

Ed S knows "this is it!". If he gets a coach who maximizes the talent on the roster, he has a better chance of keeping his job. He had his mulligan last year. Should have taken the chance on an assistant coach then.

Will anyone come to coach here on a one year contract? The idea being a one year probationary period and if they do a good job a much more lucrative extension. Is that type of contract given out to coaches? I would think a guy like Mitchell would take that seeing as he's been out of the loop for a couple years and it's a chance to prove himself again.

I doubt they'd be willing to, but if history tells us anything about Stefanski, it's that he doesn't get bargains. Be prepared for too much money, too many years, no matter who the next coach is.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 17 at 13:17
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Do you think maybe the sixers are some candidates 'safety school' option? There are a lot of openings out there and arguments could be made for many (if not all) of them being a better option (unless the sixers snag a top 2/3 pick) than the sixers.

I know the argument is that snider is holding off until the flyers lose to the blackhawks but i wonder if maybe the real reason is that their first choice is putting them on hold until he finds out about some other positions and they don't have the sack to force a decision?

Jersey
New Orleans
Atlanta
Clippers
Philadelphia
Cleveland? (with or without lebron)

Except for New Orleans, all those other jobs are really sort of up in the air. Meaning they could look significantly worse or significantly better after the lottery drawing, the draft and free agency.

But to answer your question, I think that's possible in some cases. Probably a douche like Avery Johnson would pull that crap. But Collins and Mitchell, I think if either was offered the job at this point he would've said yes or no, probably yes in both cases. It's been reported that Collins only wants to coach in Philly, and Mitchell seems like he's just dying to get back into coaching.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 17 at 13:47
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Chicago is a better job than the sixers right now (even with John Wall I believe it's a better job than the sixers)

Clippers TALENT wise are better than the sixers, lottery or not, curse wise, who knows.

Atlanta maybe maybe not better talentwise regardless of the lottery - but NJis not (though NJ becomes more attractive regardless, to me, cause they just got a guy who will make cuban look cheap running the team)

Maybe, Doug's wants this job above others due to his local ties OR he knows he won't be another teams first choice?

Honestly i am bit surprised of the hate for an established coach around here. I too want a younger coach like Budenholzer, L.Frank and Thibaudaux but getting a more established name doesn't mean that he will not be the right coach for our talent. The only problem i have with it is the direction of the team that such a hire represents which is becoming a fringe playoff team next season at all cost (and i think that might backfire in the long run).

Otherwise as good as all these assistants might be they will most likely screw up in their first job, meaning they will become good coaches after we fire them (especially considering our firing track record). It has happened a number of times before: G.Karl, D.Rivers, A.Gentry, M. DÁntoni even the guy we all love Jerry Sloan.

I also dislike the notion of emphasizing defense over offense or vice versa when talking about our next coach. The reality is all truly good/great coaches in the leagues right now are first and foremost good team/media managers, command respect from their team and are great motivators. On top of that they are good at BOTH defense and offense.

Of the candidates that are apparently in the running i like Mitchell most. And it has nothing to do with his quotes. He did a great job with the Raptors until his last season when everything simply fell apart, winning an amazing 47 wins in a season with a team far worse than this years Raptors. And more importantly they were good both on Defense and Offense.

Of the others i could live with Collins who is probably the safest hire, but at the same time the one with the smallest upside. As for Monty and Avery something about them just tells me that they simply don't have what it takes (despite Johnsons fantastic track record).

NBA Rumor Page on ESPN.com saying that Avery Johnson and Tom Thibodeau are the leading candidates for the New Orleans Hornets job.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors

If you dont have insider, here's a portion of it:

"But according to ESPN's Marc Stein, two names have emerged as "standout contenders": ESPN TV analyst Avery Johnson and Celtics assistant Tom Thibodeau......

...Stein notes that "one coaching source said Sunday that incoming Hornets owner Gary Chouest -- who has participated in most of the interviews New Orleans has conducted so far -- has also been occupied in recent days mobilizing his marine-vessel company to assist with containment efforts in the ongoing BP oil-spill crisis in the Gulf of Mexico."

That could mean a hire might not be imminent."

I like Mitchell and Collins and think it will come down to Collins. Question, if we kept Cheeks and had stability the last 5 years and Atlanta had the musical chair coaching situation the Sixers had would the records be close to being reversed? The talent seems close.

Hmmm interesting question and the answer is yes AND no. First off, the Hawks IMO have a better team at the moment, than the Sixers had at any point in the past 5 years (the addition of Crawford made the difference). Cheeks wasn't great but he was an OK coach and i think he possibly could have gotten them to 50 wins, if absolutely everything clicked this year. The Hawks however would've been much better with another coach at any point of the 5 year Woodson tenure. I think he got really lucky with the ownership situation in Atlanta.

Personally, I think Cheeks was really dumb in how he tried to change the whole team to fit Brand, rather than working him in. That seemed to be the one time Stefanski didn't offer some firm direction to his coach, maybe if he had things would've turned. No way to tell at this point, obviously. Of course, if he'd stuck around and Brand had gone down when he did, he probably could've gotten just as much out of that squad that season. I'm not sure that would've changed anything last summer, though. The Hawks brought back Bibby, I still think the Sixers would've let Miller walk. The Hawks traded for Crawford, adding salary. I don't think the Sixers would've done that. So I doubt we would've been a three seed in the playoffs this past season. We certainly wouldn't be looking at possibly a top-three pick, but I doubt we were a 50-win team, or anything close, with Cheeks still there as our coach.

I just wonder if we get a coach better than our last 3, but not great, but he is here for 5 years at least what this teams ceiling could be. I agree with your recent comment that a name like Collins may allow for use of the m.l.e. at least and that might be a good thing.

Using the MLE could also be a very bad thing. MLE contracts have to be 2 years minimum, I believe. Meaning every penny of it that's spent this summer eats into the cap space next summer (If they extend Thad early, that cap space will mostly disappear, which is why I don't think they should extend him.)

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teddygreen on May 17 at 16:10
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i'm pretty confident that this Collins will very likely be a Sixer next year...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXqLFWx4bqY

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Mammooty on May 17 at 16:21
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Questions of the coaching style you want;

Which type of offense do you want to run?
Half-court, through Elton Brand?
Tiangle offense?
Running team?

Who would be the primary scorer?
Who would be in your starting lineup(current roster, don't project rookies)?
How many minutes does Elton Brand play?
Does Igudoala play SF or SG?
Who are the first players off the bench?
How many minutes do you play a small lineup?
Would you take more jump shots or you would have them drive through the lane?
How would you protect a lead?
How would come back from a 20pt deficit?
How do you rate the young players on the team (Iguodala,Young,Holliday, Williams, Speights, Meeks, and Smith)?
What is the least that you would take for them?
Do you want to win now or are you willing to sacrifice for the future?

OK, I'll bite.

Which type of offense do you want to run? - Early offense off transition if possible, otherwise, P&R/post up simple sets with good floor spacing.

Who would be the primary scorer? -- No way to tell before draft/player movement.

Who would be in your starting lineup(current roster, don't project rookies)? -- If I'm not projecting the draft, the only guys I'm sure of are Iguodala and Jrue.

How many minutes does Elton Brand play? -- Depends on the draft/player movement.

Does Igudoala play SF or SG? -- Depends on the draft/player movement. He can play either or both, depending on who we get.

Who are the first players off the bench? -- Depends on the draft/player movement. Probably Lou and Thad or Speights.

How many minutes do you play a small lineup? -- Depends on the draft/player movement. If we draft Aminu, I want a high percentage of small lineups. If we draft Favors or Cousins, not so much.

Would you take more jump shots or you would have them drive through the lane? -- Fewer jump shots.

How would you protect a lead? -- Put my best defensive unit on the floor, grind out possessions on both ends.

How would come back from a 20pt deficit? -- Put my best defensive unit on the floor, press and/or trap. Create transition opportunities.

How do you rate the young players on the team (Iguodala -- A,Young -- C, Holiday -- A, Williams -- C, Speights -- C+, Meeks -- C, and Smith -- F)?

What is the least that you would take for them? -- Iguodala and Holiday, need to get equal value. Meaning a solid young building block, plus. Really no floor on the other guys. I'd want something of value back for Speights and Thad. You can have Lou if I don't take any long salary back. Meeks and Smith are nothing.

Do you want to win now or are you willing to sacrifice for the future? -- Don't care about winning now, but I want to know we're building toward something. Tearing everything down without a plan on how to build it up is pointless. If you are going to tear it down (meaning trade Iguodala or Holiday), I want to know your plan for replacing them.

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Devin reply to Brian on May 17 at 18:46
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Which type of offense do you want to run?
Running team

Who would be the primary scorer?
Iguodala

Who would be in your starting lineup(current roster, don't project rookies)?
Dalembert-Brand-Young-Iguodala-Holliday

How many minutes does Elton Brand play?
30 mins

Does Igudoala play SF or SG?
Mostly SG, 20mins/game SF

Who are the first players off the bench?
Lou Williams

How many minutes do you play a small lineup?
depends

Would you take more jump shots or you would have them drive through the lane?
layups, points in the paint

How would you protect a lead?
defensive lineup

How would come back from a 20pt deficit?
Dalembert-Speights-Igoudala-Williams-Holliday

How do you rate the young players on the team (Iguodala,Young,Holliday, Williams, Speights, Meeks, and Smith)?

Iguodala- A, young player + capspace + draft pick
Young- B-, young player
Williams- C+, capspace
Speights- C, draft pick
Meeks- D, trading chip in a bigger trade or a 2nd rounder
Smith- C-, see meeks above

What is the least that you would take for them?

Do you want to win now or are you willing to sacrifice for the future? As a coach, no.

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Mohanlal reply to sfw on May 17 at 16:48
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Poor Eskin. Trying to resurrect his career

If you don't want to click through, Eskin says Doug Collins will be hired by the end of the week. Says he has three sources saying that Collins only wants to coach here, and three sources saying Collins is the Sixers guy. Stefanski will stay in place as GM. This is Eskin, so consider the source.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 17 at 17:45
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So - what you're saying is no shot Collins is the coach?

:)

He also said there's no way Larry Brown will coach the Sixers.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 17 at 21:48
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So - it's probably a lock that we'll get brown

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Old School SixerFan reply to Brian on May 17 at 18:04
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Howard seems to have sources, so maybe he's right. I'd still like to have a first or second time coach unless they are going to change again a couple of years down the road. Has any coach led a team to the finals in his third job? To have been unsuccessful two times and have someone think they will be successful in a third situation is insane. Bill Laimbeer has the right pedigree as a player and as a WNBA coach. Success at both levels.

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JohnEMagee reply to Old School SixerFan on May 17 at 21:49
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Since when?

Since he called #3 the 'point guard'

Larry Brown, off the top of my head.

Great, that means two steps forward for a year or two, so that we can be mediocre a few years and then blow things up in three years instead of now.

Hopefully Collins will change from his history of being one of the slowest paced coaches ever. Because otherwise he's overall a good coach IMO- just one that seems a poor fit for this team.

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johnrosz reply to tk76 on May 17 at 19:30
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I don't think the pace on offense will prevent them from running or anything. Transition buckets aren't going to disappear with the installation of a new half court set. The running game might be better than it ever was with Collins attention to detail on the defensive end, especially with 2 guys in the starting lineup more than capable of forcing turnovers in Iggy and Jrue. I think I might be the only guy thrilled with the idea of Collins coaching this team.

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sfw reply to johnrosz on May 17 at 19:38
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If true, I like the choice. Could be worse. It really is a shame that he brought in Eddie Jordon last year. He should've went for the assistant last year. He just can't gamble now with his job security.

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bebopdeluxe reply to johnrosz on May 18 at 9:53
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Nope, johnrosz...I'm with you.

I think that - relative to the universe of realistic possibilities out there - that Collins is a solid choice...if for no other reason than to repair the HORRIFIC damage inflicted on the development of the young talent on this roster by EFJ.

Collins will stress fundamentals.

Collins will stress defense.

(on those two points alone, he is light-years ahead of EFJ)

I assure you that the next time Iggy and EB try to run a two-man game from the high post in the guts of the game that 1) they WILL have practiced it, and 2) if they get it wrong, they will drill it to death on the next practice day until they get it right.

A top-3 pick and Collins as HC by the end of the week...and I would actually care about this team again.

Jrue Holliday is going to be interviewed on WIP at or after 8:00pm.

I question whether Stefanski is still calling the shots or if if Snider is dictating that Collins be hired. Not only was Collins refused an interview last year, but they had a bit of a public spat over Collins saying he had been in contact with the Sixers.

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Tom Moore on May 17 at 20:12
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Will be at the lottery tomorrow. At least there's good grub in Secaucus ...

Covered quite a few of those. The typical occurrence is the Sixers get the pick they're supposed to and they say they'll get a quality player at that spot.

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Rodney Buford reply to Tom Moore on May 18 at 10:50
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Lol - great point Tom. The lottery is the absolutely worst for canned responses. Just copy and paste from years past.

"Some guys aren't cut out to be head coaches - if thibodeau is great at teaching defense but a horrible communicator - he makes a shit head coach"

Um, isn't teaching communicating? Not to be semantic with you, but I don't really see how you can be a great teacher and a lousy communicator. Maybe you mean a lousy motivator? I would just say this. I have no idea what kind of a person Thibodeau is, but anyone who's that good at coaching defense is someone who deserves some serious consideration. Look at what they're doing in these playoffs. I believe in hiring a coach who's proven to make some kind of serious discernible difference in a team's play, and he's one of the few guys who is proven. Collins too, but not quite to the same degree. A few years ago, no one thought a Pierce-Allen team would really be able to guard anyone.

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JohnMagee reply to Tray on May 18 at 9:41
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I'm a very good teacher - as long as the students I'm teaching want to learn (those who only care about the grade they get and express such opinion i'm not so good with) and I'm a horrible communicator in many things.

I'm sorry I have to expand upon it but a coach has to do more than just coach defense, he's a representative of the team to the media and to the world - just cause you teach doesn't mean you can talk to the press...


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