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What A Night

If Stefanski traded the pick I would be devastated. He needs to be fired before he does something stupid.

What if we took Turner and traded Iggy to the kings for their 5th pick and Thompson and then took Johnson?

There are tons of opportunities for the Sixers to rebuild their team here. Hopefully the team doesn't fuck this all up.

We'll get to trade opportunities in the coming days/weeks. That one doesn't work under the cap, the Sixers would have to take back another $10M or so in salary to make it work.

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Mike P reply to Brian on May 19 at 1:07
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Yeah, I figured it might not work because I just made it up without using the trade machine, but we are in a great position to built for the future here.

Especially with Minnie picking 4 and their love of Iggy.

If the GM doesn't explore all our trade options, both Iggy and non Iggy, I will be sad.

What trades would you be interested in Brian?

I haven't even gotten that far yet. Right now, until I take a closer look, I'm not really interested in any trades that move us out of position to take Wall, Turner or Favors. It was such a long shot that we got here, I just don't want to give it up.

Now if the Nets are so in love with Turner that they'd offer us #3, #27 and a protected first-rounder next season to swap spots, then that's something I'd be very interested in.

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Mike P reply to Brian on May 19 at 1:17
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Now see, stuff like that is what I haven't even thought of.

I was more thinking of trading either Iggy or the non Iggy pieces that we have. I would be pissed if we traded out of the 2 spot unless it was for something like that Nets deal you just mentioned.

I'd happily take that and pluck Favors.

What is the league average for spot-up, catch-and-shoot situations from three last season? Its hard to judge those numbers without comparing it to the league average.

I don't have league average, I just looked up Rashard because he came to mind as a guy who thrives on kick outs for open threes.

First, I love the stats. I knew Jrue & Dala were solid on Catch & Shoot, but not to that significance.

I agree that getting another defensive big is key to moving forward. At this point, I am in no great hurry to dump Brand, especially if that means moving either Thad or Speights. With Turner, Our backcourt is barely legal so there should be no rush to use young assets just to dump Brand when we won't be ready to make a run at it for at least 2 years.

Brand should be a serviceable #3 scorer who should get all kinds of nice looks off of PnRs with Jrue & Turner. and hopefully his defense and rebounding actually get back to where it was under Cheeks. If that happens, things might get interesting.

Another interesting thought that has come to mind. I remember Iverson's 1st game back against Denver, when he was drawing most of the attention. Dala just wrecked havoc as the defense's "secondary focus" in the 1st half, until Karl realized AI wasn't The AI and started doubling Dala instead. If Turner comes in and becomes the #1, could we see that Dala again on a semi-regular basis?

I think that's the role he's always been best in. Takes what comes to him in the half court, abuses people in transition.

Agreed. He can now go back to being the "Utilityman", plugging any and every hole that could cause a loss.

Another advantage is that Turner & Iguodala already know each other from working out at ATTACK. They had a Tweet convo back & forth when Turner got a TD in Jan/Feb.

Hopefully, the team should realize that the 3-year plan nonsense went out the window and they should take the pedal off the metal.

In reading, I am not so sure it would be that bad to trade #2 and Elton for #4. Alot to give up but ....

What are your thoughts, Brian/Derek?

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Shawn reply to DeanH on May 19 at 9:17
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Elton is as close to untradeable as almost any player in the league.

I think question 4 ties back in with question 1 - as currently constructed, if Elton Brand can give them some meaningful minutes, they can be playoff team, if not, then the frontcourt doesn't have enough.

Question 2 - I'd like to see them get a few veterans with leadership skills who the young guys will listen to and respect

I hope Stefanski knows what he's doing with Collins because I don't like the way the search has been handled - seems like he made up his mind right away and is just interviewing others for show. Collins does make good points on tv, but so does Herm Edwards and Matt Millen, and I've heard Collins in previous jobs was petty and alienated players.

For the pick, Turner seems well qualified but they shouldn't rule out Favors or even Cousins just because they're not the mainstream picks - just as with coaches, these things should be approached with an open mind.

Overall a great night for the Sixers - way to go Jrue!

I really, really think Turner is going to be a great choice. I wouldn't mind Favors much but I think Turner brings so much to the table right away and is too good to pass up at #2.

I see Favors needed a couple of years to polish up some sort of offensive game to be a 12pts/10rebs/2 blks a game guy whereas for Turner I think he can do similar to what Tyreke Evans did and go 20/5/5 from his rookie season.

If Stefanski ends up not getting either of them and gets a veteran instead (and let's face it, it won't be a really good player) I may have to shoot him myself. And I will probably also have to shoot the person who allowed him to make that decision.

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Paul reply to Alvin on May 19 at 16:25
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Agreed. Getting the second pick and the opportunity to draft Turner was my dream choice. I think he is a can't miss player. That may also make Thad a bit expendable. If they trade Thad I think he should still be worth a good enough first round draft choice to land a quality defensive big man as a backup to Dalembert.

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Average WIP Caller on May 19 at 2:11
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The Sixers should tell other teams, we'll give you the pick if you'll take the Brand and Iguodala contracts off our hands.

This is just such great karma. If the Flyers can come back from 0-3 and have a 1% chance to do it, of course the Sixers are gonna strike gold with their chance to get a top-2 pick.

It's nice to read something good about the Sixers. As a stathead, I hate to say this, but I think Turner has the "it" factor that most other guys don't. The guy is a winner. He can carry a team on his back and just come out on top.

I'm not the biggest basketball guy, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it possible that Turner might struggle with long, athletic wingmen (aka Tayshaun Price, the good version)? I'd rather have him over Favors simply because I think he's got a better chance to be really good, but I think that might be his one downside.

Either way, the Sixers have a great chance at adding a tremedous piece. I hope it's Turner because he can be the face of a franchise, but I'm just really excited.

Just a dream scenario, but is it plausible?.....

Following next season, the Sixers take a run at a guy like Melo with a max contract. The idea of playing with holiday, turner and iguodala would have to be pretty attractive, and the team has sammy d, kapono and green coming off the books.

How would you like a 2011-2012 lineup of Holiday, Turner, Iggy, Melo and Brand (at the undersized 5). Wow.

Picking Favors would mean we can now dump Dalembert.Combine the trade with Thad and who knows,we can get a really good shooting 2.

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teddygreen on May 19 at 4:58
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teddygreen on May 19 at 5:56
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I can’t believe that the Timberwolves are in such need of a ball handling wing considering how many BHW that they either traded or passed over in the last few drafts?

2006 They traded away Brandon Roy
2009 They traded away OJ Mayo
2010 They passed on Stephen Curry

Now the Timberwolves would have to sell the farm in assets plus take on arguably the most toxic contract in the NBA for any chance at Evan Turner--who the Timberwolves wanted to be the Kobe to their triangle offence.

Check out Evan Turner's twitter page...

http://twitter.com/thekidet

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Mike P reply to teddygreen on May 19 at 8:19
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Lots of those potential Wolves trades mention Rubio or Flynn. Why would we need a PG silly Minnesota posters?

If they stand pat and take Turner or Favors, I'm fine with that. But...

The first thing I think I would do is make a call to Ricky Rubio's agent. If he'd commit to signing a deal, I would do Rubio and the #4 pick. Rubio and Jrue would be an absolutely sick backcourt, and we could still get a quality big. Basically, we'd be getting two high lottery picks for one. And since Rubio is not going to Minny, they have some incentive to do it.

Regarding EB, I think somewhat sadly it's a question of expectations at this point. He's not going to be a focal point in your offense, but he can do what Antionio McDyess has done for the past several years: play smart and contribute in somewhat reduced minutes. He will be grossly overpaid to do so, but better to build around what he can actually do than daydream about what he can't.

If Stefanski uses this pick to dump salary, I'm gonna have to start liking hockey.

Derek and I discussed the need, if Turner is the pick, to have a stretch 5 on the court at times to open the lane up for our 2 best post players, Iggy and Turner. To allow Spieghts to fill this role a defensive big, one who can set screens, do the dirty work and be the anti-Marreese is key and combine that with the fact L.Will. doesn!t fit now, 4 guards that need the ball, and Detroit probably goes big in the draft, a L.Will. for Maxiel trade really appeals to me.

I like that idea! Excellent use of assets. I found it funny too, people kept talking about how getting Turner makes Thad or Dala expendable, when the 1st person I thought about was LouWill.

As you said, this team currently has 3 guys who can run the offense(especially a Collins offense). And given the skill sets of Holiday, Turner and Dala, I'd argue that Meeks might be more valuable than Lou is right now. Plus, Lou lacks defensive commitment.

Washington really needing a new face/energy for their organization. Sixers struggling worse than they ever have in the attendance, etc. New foreign owner of Nets getting dissed. Minny already had their opportunity last year to kill in the draft ........... Maybe. just maybe the fix was in............

Exhausted. Which is probably not good since I'm driving to Chicago in a few hours for the predraft combine and probably won't sleep until late thursday night.

1) Yes
2) Getting a legitimate, stretch 4 who can still rebound (which seems to cross off Elton Brand)
3) Compete for what? Playoffs? Yeah. Championship? Still very much up in the air. Iguodala and Jrue need to show that their performance last year in catch and shoot situations wasn't a fluke, and we still may need to upgrade shooting at the 2 frontcourt positions.

4) 15 may be possible, especially with how much Jrue/Turner/Iguodala should be creating. 10 I have my doubts about.

If Cousins was a choice, I'd have gone with him I think.

I just hope the Wizards take Wall. At 2, give me Turner or Cousins and I'm really really happy.

Favors? I'd be real pissed.

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Rodney Buford reply to Joe on May 19 at 8:46
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Brian mentioned this previously, but I could really see Cousins getting into shape for the one month before the draft and the Sixers falling in love with him and taking him #2. To be honest, I wouldn't be devastated (other then trading down, its really hard to f this pick up)but I'd rather have Turner.

I listend to Jay Bilas the other day talk about how much more physical college basketball is, with guys just hammering everyone every play. I think Turner could come in and be an 18+ PPG guy with 5/5 right away. This guy was killed last year and still put up great numbers (even after his back injury).

Trade down with Minny. Get Cousins at 4 and one of the shooting guards at 16.

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sfw reply to sfw on May 19 at 9:19
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Didn't open Teddy's link. If Cousins passes the interview test and we could get him at 4, I would definitely consider the move. I prefer to get big talent than small but saying that our basketball IQ increases dramatically with Turner in the lineup. Lou Will moves to his rotational wing spot while Turner can run the point. Willie loses minutes......... A lot of encouraging things if we draft Turner.

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Rodney Buford on May 19 at 9:20
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Gotta love Jrue's comments. Normally all we get are "We'll evaluate all players" (hey that's what Stefanski said)

"He's very tall and athletic and he'll work on his jump shot," said Holiday of Turner, who declared for the NBA after his junior season. "He's a wing player, somebody who gets out there and locks up on defense and can handle the ball. I think it's a perfect fit. I think now we can move Andre [Iguodala] to the three [small forward] and we have a lot more ability to score, a lot more scoring."

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Shahrod on May 19 at 9:36
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2 moves: ONE: Trade the #2 & Brand to Minny for #4 & Al Jefferson. Take Cousins with #4 pick. TWO: Sign-and-trade for LeBron....offering Iguodala and Lou Williams. I know chances are really thin for LeBron to want to come to Philly, but a starting 5 of Holiday, LeBron, Young, Jefferson and Cousins would be sick! Salaries would match on both trades, and our team would be young and dynamic for years to come.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shahrod on May 19 at 9:42
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Chances are next to nothing that EITHER of your suggestions happen.

Can't we just say if you want to make insane inane trade suggestions that you go post at realgm?

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Shahrod reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 9:51
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I agree that chances are thin of a sign-and-trade for Lebron, but I think chances are good for the trade with Minny. Al Jefferson wants out of Minny and rumors are that they were really hoping for a chance at drafting Evan Turner. Sounds like a great match to me.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shahrod on May 19 at 9:56
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You're ignoring the fact that Elton Brands contract is garbage on wheels right?

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Shahrod reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 9:59
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Brand's contract is bad...that's why the Sixers should use this opportunity to get out from under it. If Minny wants to trade up bad enough, then they will have to make a strong offer. Brand will be an extra year removed from surgery and could be a better fit with Minnesota....that might be enough to convince them to take the chance. The salaries are close enough that the trade works.

I was sitting with Chris Wallace (Grizzlies GM) while the lottery was being announced. He said the best thing you can do on draft night is to forget your roster. I agree with him. You don't use the #2 pick to clear off salary. Your goal HAS to be to get the best possible player. Not the best fit. Not the best salary. The best player. Then you build around that.

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Rodney Buford reply to Derek Bodner on May 19 at 10:09
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Did Wallace really take his own advice when he drafted Thabeet?

They already had Marc Gasol at center, so I would say probably yes. It was the evaluation of Thabeet where they failed.

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Rodney Buford reply to Derek Bodner on May 19 at 10:16
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Good point about the evaluation - although banking on Gasol at that point was not set in stone. He had Mayo and Conley and I think that had to influence him away from Evans or Harden. Still time for Thabeet though.

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Shahrod reply to Derek Bodner on May 19 at 10:11
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I understand the sentiment in that, but I think it's also important for the GM to have the big picture in mind....otherwise you'll end up with a team of wing players. Personally, I think Cousins is the best player in this draft, but we could trade down a couple picks to get him. If we can do that and improve another part of our roster, then I'm all for it.

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Shawn reply to Shahrod on May 19 at 11:18
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He's also a notorious knucklehead. Personally, I like my teams to be hardworkers - its low risk plus chemistry has its value that should not be underestimated.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shawn on May 19 at 11:21
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He's also 19 years old and probably been treated like a 'king' all his life because he can play basketball.

I'm sure when you were 19 years old you weren't ever a knuckle head huh?

You interview the kid and see if it's just basic 19 year old immturity (which we all had - some still do) - or something deeper...talentwise he's worth of the 2nd pick and this is where dileo makes his money

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Shahrod reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 11:54
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I think the #2 spot will be the hot pick in this draft and should generate a lot of trade interest. If multiple teams fall in love with a guy like Turner, the trade offers will get interesting. Sixers have drafted well the past few years...hopefully they'll make the right moves this year.

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JohnEMagee reply to Shahrod on May 19 at 12:00
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As long as DiLeo is the primary decision maker - I'm good with what the sixers do.

If Dileo say 'yes cousins is the guy, and we can get him at 4' then i'm comfortable.

I don't trust Stefanskis motivations if he's the primary decision maker about making a trade...if DiLeo's opinion is ignored - then i'm wary

Not sure anyone cares, but Ted Leonsis, the owner of the Wiz, endorsed David Berris newest book

Is it possible Wall is available at 2? If so, could the Sixers pass on him?

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ryano reply to Joe on May 19 at 10:16
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Can't pass on Wall at #2.

But knowing there's a 99% chance he's gone after 1 makes me feel comforted, because I think Jrue is going to be great and Turner is the player with the least number of questions surrounding his NBA readiness. He'll be productive immediately in some capacity next year. Whether that's 18-5-5 or 12-5-3, he's going to produce for this team. I really can't see a scenario where he scores less than 15 a game running with Jrue.

I'm almost as excited about watching Jrue's development as I am about getting our pick on the floor. Big year two for Mr. Holiday next year!

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ojr107 reply to Joe on May 19 at 10:19
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I can't see the Wizards passing on Wall. Its not like they have Chris Paul or Rajan Rondo at point guard, They have Gilbert Arenas, who is more of a shooting guard, who had been playing point in a system that doesn't need a pure point.

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JohnEMagee reply to ojr107 on May 19 at 10:27
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I think people are ignoring the fact that - whatever gilbert plays - the wizards want his ass gone, he's an embarassment (and the rest of the roster isn't exactly model citizens) the franchise has no 'face' and arenas has missed most of the past 3 seasons.

Gilbert Arenas is an after thought to the wizards on the court and i'm sure if it were legal they'd take a bag of doritos for him if only to not pay him 80 million dollars.

And for those 'lottery is fixed' people - did any 'historic' franchise with a new owner need the #1 pick MORE than the wizards after the past year they had?

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Mike P reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 10:49
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A better owner couldn't have gotten the number 1 pick in Leonsis.

He's going to Capital the Wizards. I hope he even brings back the Bullets logo.

It sucks how we have the anti Leonsis. Stupid Snider.

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JohnEMagee reply to Mike P on May 19 at 11:15
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Yeah, I keep hearing this about Leonsis - the NHL is a minor sport in this country that no one cares about.

We'll see what Leonsis can do with the mess he inherited - he did not fire the GM which is strike 1 against him - in my opinion - those contracts he handed out were mistakes

Isn't Berry making the Beasley over Rose argument all over again?

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JohnEMagee on May 19 at 10:32
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The Philadelphia Daily News reports that a Collins hiring is imminent and that the second choice is Avery Johnson

Yeah, saw that. I don't think money has been discussed yet, if they wind up hiring Sam Mitchell or one of the assistants at this point, my guess would be the low balled Collins and Avery.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 19 at 10:49
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You'd think that money was discussed during an interview with these guys and they know what sort of range they'll be getting offered. If still showing interest they have to be ok with money...it's one of those 'i hate to ask this question but i have to' moments of all job interviews i've ever been in.

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Chris reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 11:53
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I don't think Collins is a bad choice but Stefanski's search bothers me as it seems he, once again, had his mind made up beforehand and the rest of the coaching search / interview sessions were perfunctory (just for appearances sake).

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JohnEMagee reply to Chris on May 19 at 11:59
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My problem with a guy like collins is I don't believe he is going to have the patience required to build this team properly and he's going to bully stefanski into making short term moves like the billy king era

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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on May 19 at 12:01
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This team was just bestowed a gift from the (ping-pong) gods...to hire a coach on the cheap (while totally consistent with Comcast/Snider's recent MO) would be stupidity of the highest order.

If it is disclosed after the fact that the ONLY reason why Doug Collins is not our next coach is the Sixers low-balled him, I am going to send every member of the Sixers hierarchy a fish wrapped in a newspaper.

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JohnEMagee reply to bebopdeluxe on May 19 at 12:13
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Cost to me is secondary, because the new coach MUST understand and accept that theire caree won loss record is irrelevant to this hire - other things are much more important:

  • Continued Development of Jrue Holiday
  • Playing #2 and seeing what he can and can't do and...
  • How does #2 fit with Andre Iguodala, Sam Dalembert
  • Can Speights and young develop

The sixers next coach must understand that the goal is not about padding his resume

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bebopdeluxe reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:41
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I agree completely with this post.

Umm...did the sun rise in the west today?

;-)

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JohnEMagee reply to bebopdeluxe on May 19 at 13:43
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Nah, you just usually miss the point of most of my posts (that's ok - most people do) :)

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Tom Moore on May 19 at 10:36
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Turner's tweet: "Sorry t-wolves fans!"

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Tom Moore on May 19 at 10:37
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Stefanski later Tuesday: "Evan Turner is a terrific basketball player; he has great size. People compare him to Brandon Roy. This is a compliment, but he plays like a 30-year-old man out there. He gets a step ahead of everybody. He doesn’t look like he’s explosive, but for some unknown reason, like a Brandon Roy, he gets by you and gets to where he wants to go on the court. He has a great handle and at his height, that’s an important trait to have."

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JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on May 19 at 10:52
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Hey Brain - they're getting a brandon roy - aren't you happy?

Heh. I hope he stays on the court better than Roy does.

This "BRoy" actually defends and rebounds consistently, so I'd prefer that. Plus, he has a nasty edge to him.

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JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 19 at 14:38
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So he's actually nothing like brandon roy and the comparison is ridiculous?

LOL. I would say so.

People have these handy comps that they jump to, even when the comparison is not apt. If I had to use a comp, I'd use Prime Grant Hill(though less athletic), Current Kobe(with reduction in athleticism). The best one I'd go with is a stronger, right-handed version of Prime Manu. Manu has the same nastiness & toughness that Turner displays. Roy seems more "finesse" than Manu or Turner does.

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JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 19 at 15:03
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PS - I like ALL those comparisons better than a brandon roy one:)

Agreed. Turner uses his length, fundamentals & deceptive athleticism to dominate his opponents. He wants to destroy you, like Current-Kobe or Prime Manu does. Anybody who goes by the handle of "The Villain" is fine by me, lol.

Roy is a bit overrated to me. Honestly, I think Dala is actually a better all-around player, while Roy is the better pure scorer.

So, the idea of putting a Prime Manu/Current Kobe next to the Swiss Army Knife that is Iguodala just makes me giddy!

Thank you, I needed to hear that this am.

Brian where did you hear the rumors that he's willing to trade the pick for a veteran?

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JohnEMagee reply to steve on May 19 at 10:52
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Most of the 'rumors' stem from a stefanski quote blown WAY out of proportion by a media that requires hits and comments to stay employed :)

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JohnEMagee reply to steve on May 19 at 10:54
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"If the first pick, everyone's saying is John Wall, then we have the next we can take anybody we want. We can entertain offers from a lot of people, so this is important for us. And we needed something positive after the year we just went through."

Stefanski said this and people are blowing it out of proportion

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steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 10:56
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Yea I don't read too much into that every gm is going to say something like "we'll look at all of our options." I don't think there's any way the pick isnt Turner. Best player available, fills biggest need. Done.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/listen-live/

Ed Stefanski is on right now

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Tom Moore on May 19 at 11:03
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I heard him say about possibly trading the pick in passing. Didn't think much of it. Would've been more likely at No. 6, IMO.

Yea he just said something like " we will get an immediate impact player at 2, but all our options are opened becasue WHO KNOWS WHAT WE WILL BE OFFERED FOR THE PICK" So i think hes saying he needs to be blown away to trade that pick. Also comparing him to Brandon Roy.

Slept on it last night and here is what i came up with:

You have to go Turner and the reason why is that Iggy is no two. Turner and Jrue are long, young and both are going to be good. That is a nice, big, young, long, backcourt for the next 10 years. I am down with that.

Lou and Meeks back these guys up, and you know what, i am down with that as well. Lou plays 15 minutes a night, go and gun, buddy. Find Meeks in the corner a couple a times a night, and that is fine. Lou is actually a decent bench piece. Now if you can get something for him, i would look at it, but right now i think you need to wait a year for reasons i will explain below.

You pencil Iggy in at the three, period. You let him do everything he can do next year and see how the three of them play togeter. Iggy can play, he's just not the man. I worry about Turner's jumper, on tape he looks a little like Iggy. Getting to the rack, ball in his hands, etc. But i would still give it a year. Jrue, Turner and Iggy have a chance to be special. This is where Thad becomes really redundant. He can't play the 4, he just doesn't rebound well enough and he doesn't shoot well enough from mid-range. At least Brand and Speights can shoot. Maybe Thad becomes a nice bench 3 that comes in and brings energy, but i think he is the guy you need to look to move. We don't have room for tweeners anymore. The question is, what do you need, now?

The reason i like Sam Mitchell is what he said about Sammy. You play Sammy 32 minutes every night and tell him to grab every rebound and block every shot. If he gets in foul trouble so be it, but simplify the game for him. Simplify his role. Truth be told, i would much rather have Sammy than 75% of the 5's in the league. Even Brian was making such a big deal about Gortat last summer, would you really rather have Gortat as your 5 over Sammy after what you've seen? No way, Jose.

Sammy at the 5 allows you to play Speights at the 4. I think the team i would re-up my season tix to see is:

jrue
turner
iggy
speights
sammy

last night was great. Man, we needed it, huh.

Gracias Dios!

I would let Brand and Speights battle it out for the 4 spot. Both can hit the mid-range jumper, maybe you just divide the minutes based on who has it going.

"He doesn’t look like he’s explosive, but for some unknown reason, like a Brandon Roy, he gets by you and gets to where he wants to go on the court."

Do the comments out there that he doesn't get by athletic defenders, of the sort he might actually see in the NBA, have any validity? Because it's one thing to get by people in college w/o a lot of explosiveness, and another to do the same in the NBA.

I don't have game film to look at. From his game logs, it doesn't seem like any defenders really did a good job shutting him down, though. I think he played poorly against Illinois, if that helps.

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jkay reply to Tray on May 19 at 12:01
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similarly to players like Nash and Andre Miller, he keeps his dribble, gauges the defender and uses a sudden move (or change of speed if you like) to beat him to a certain position. the sudden-ness of that move cannot be understated. saw him split an impending triple team easily just with that sudden-ness. his high ball IQ really makes all the difference.

A better comparison for me is the difference between a guy like Verlander or CC vs a guy like Roy Halladay or Greg Maddux. Verlander & CC throws harder, but Doc(or Maddux) uses a variety of pitches and change of speed moves to "fool" the defender and negate any athletic advantage for the defender.

Don't know if this is a repeat but this brought a smile to my face:

Jrue: "Then sometime in June, me and Jodie and Marreese are going to come back to Philly and work out together for a bit." May I add, hopefully Evan will join them shortly after!

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JohnEMagee reply to DeanH on May 19 at 12:14
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Yeah, that's great and all, but what are they working on?

Would anyone trade Iguodala to the wolves for the fourth pick in the draft?

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 12:41
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Just the fourth pick?

No

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 12:45
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I love Iguodala but I really would have to consider it. A lineup of Jrue,Turner,Thad,Brand,Cousins would be really good now and in the future. But a lineup of Jrue,Turner,Iguodala,Brand,Dalembert also is very good. I don't know what I would do I'm torn about it thats why I'm asking.

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 12:50
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As far as I'm concerned Thaddeus Young hasn't shown anything that makes me believe he'll be an NBA starter, as of now, he's a nice piece off the bench to score points - but very little else (and the sixers have way too many of them)...projecting him as a starter is not something you can do right now in my opinion.

I don't morally oppose trading Iguodala, I morally oppose trading him for less then he's worth when you don't have to at this time.

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 12:53
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I doubt Minny would do this but what about Kevin Love and #4 for Iguodala? Theyre so desperate for a playmaking,scoring wing I don't think they'll fall in love with Johnson because he's not great off the dribble. They were praying for Turner and will not get Gay to go there so maybe they would pay a good price for Iguodala.

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Matt reply to Steve on May 19 at 12:57
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I'm a big fan of Love but we'd have to take back a bunch of salary to make it work. Only real trade that works salary wise is Jefferson, and not even Minny would fall for Jefferson and the #4 pick...

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Steve reply to Matt on May 19 at 13:00
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We wouldn't have to take salary back Minnesota is wayyyy under the salary cap and can take on pretty much any contract

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Matt reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:06
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I thought so too but Trade Machine disagrees - says Minny is over the cap.

Salaries would work for Jefferson-Iguodala.

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JohnEMagee reply to Matt on May 19 at 13:01
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If they project Evan Turner as the best player in this draft - they might - because they get what they see as the #1 pick which means Kahn might be sillier than I thought

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 12:59
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If the reports are to be believed, the wolves targeted evan turner as the #1 pick in the draft if they won the lottery, so if they were really that hungry (foolish?) to get turner on their roster (flynn and maybe rubio prevent you from taking wall? That's silliness) then maybe they would be very motivated to move up from 4 to 2.

I don't know if the money works - but I believe that Kahn is a fool and if really thought turner was #1 then yes the sixers and wolves could make a deal.

ONLY if after interviewing favors and cousins that DiLeo is comfortable with BOTH of them...but as for exact pieces, I'm not sure how it works numbers wise etc...cap room

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:02
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I'm not talking about giving up the number 2 pick theirs almost nothing I'd trade that pick for we're getting a franchise player with our luck last night.

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:03
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Then Minnesota ain't trading you #4 for Andre Iguodala

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:06
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You don't know that for sure. They want a very good wing player and they may not think Johnson is the answer. Don't underestimate Kahn. Wizards traded their top pick for Randy Foye. Some gms are realllly dumb.

I saw this comment on kate fagans article and thought of a little change. Someone suggested a gortat for dalembert trade if the magic lose the series to the celtics for a little cap relief. I know those salaries wont match up (but i dont have the trade machine on my computer cause work blocks it) but I was thinking if we traded dalembert for gortat and jj redick, we could move turner to the sf or something if we move igoudala in some sort of cap relief move for ourselves. I think redick has improved alot and he can flat out shoot. objections?

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JohnEMagee reply to paul on May 19 at 13:00
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That presumes Dwight howard moving to power forward?

Or Dalembert coming off the bench?

Bench much like gortat is now, just gives them cap relief in that year and also allows them to be competitive next year since howard is a foul machine. could also be a trade done in the middle of the season depending how the magic are doing and how they end up this year

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JohnEMagee reply to paul on May 19 at 13:05
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Gortat is better than Sam.

The reasons that the magic are losing to the celtics are roster construction and 'strategy' that sam for gortat doesn't solve...it doesn't make howard better offensively, it doesn't eliminate their committment to the 3 pointer or the fact that their starting power forward isn't a power forward (and for those missing it, IS over paid)...

I prefer the sixers keep Sam...because Gortat isn't a starting center

Minny may move up

Look for the Minnesota Timberwolves to make a strong play to trade up to No. 2. The Wolves are very, very high on Evan Turner. They feel his versatility, scoring ability and court presence is the perfect fit for their young club.

The Sixers, on the other hand, aren't a perfect fit for Turner. Both Andre Iguodala and rookie Jrue Holiday are versatile guards who can defend multiple positions and handle the ball. And like Turner, neither is a lights-out shooter.

With Minnesota pining hard for Turner, don't be surprised to see the Wolves offer up the No. 4 and either the No. 16 or the No. 23 pick to Philly to move up two spots.That would allow the Wolves to get the guy they've coveted all along in the draft and give Philly an extra pick and a shot at another guy they're high on -- Kentucky's DeMarcus Cousins or Syracuse's Wesley Johnson.


from chad ford. If we do that I'd never forgive this franchise. Ever.

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:12
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Don't read too muc into Chad Ford

He's an idiot

And he writes in way where he tries to make his opinion seem like it's more than opinion.

This is all just his opinion, and go back to the first point, if SAS had written what Ford wrote - would you have taken it seriously? To me they are in the same class.

Does anyone know if the sixers are high on cousins and johnson - heard nothing.

BTW - #2 for #4 and #16 isn't enough - and I"m pretty sure even stefanski knows that

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:15
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Good point. That makes me feel alot better. Although I do value his opinion on prospects. I don't think we trade the pick I just feel like Dileo won't let it happen. Do you think we'll keep it?

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:21
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I think if Stefanski stops listening to DiLeo about the draft, the sixers are screwed, I think if Dielo feels Cousins is a good get at 2 - then they'll make a move assuming NJ doesn't look like they'll take Cousins (and how dileo feels about cousins matters too)

It's too early to decide whether or not a move should be made.

I respect Derek's opoinioin on prospects more than Chad Fords

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:26
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I do alotttt of research on prospects and watch every game I can and feel like most do, that Turner and Wall are the first tier, Favors,Cousins and Johnson are second tier, and after that you get a bunch of young high risk/high reward players that could turn out to be very good players or not make it out of their rookie deal. Turner and Wall are like Oden and Durant to me not that they are similar players or that one will bust like Oden, but that year in the draft it Seattle and Portland were not trading those picks no matter what because they were getting a franchise cornerstone.

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:28
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Derek has access to things you don't, scouts have access to things you don't - that's why I trust derek's opinion more than yours or chad fords (cause I think even with access Ford isn't looking at all the available tape). Watching games on ESPN isn't the same as getting the game tapes and breaking them down the way scouts can (or like derek has access to) - it's not personal...but tony dileo is going to know a lot more about tthese guys than you do - and he's going to meet them and talk to them (which you can't - all you can get is the report and view the media wants you to have)...

Demarcus Cousins has #1 talent and #4 issues that might not be as big as theya re made out to be - that's not a call you or I can make without meeting with the kid for a couple hours...I trust that if Tony DiLeo approves of a move it's the right move to make - it's not personal - he just has a track record so far that I trust.

"One will bust like Oden"

If OKC had the first pick in that draft - they probably take oden

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:31
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Oh I know I'm not saying my opinion is better than Derek's I really trust his view on prospects I was just giving my opinion on why we should keep the pick and take turner

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:33
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I thnk the sixers should take the pick and keep turner - but Tony DiLeo knows better than me - if he decides he'd take cousins at 2 but can make a trade and get him at 4 and get more - I have to have faith he knows what he's doing until he shows me he doesn't (and just drafting cousins wouldn't ruin that faith immeidately like with derek ;) )

John Hollinger just wrote some nonsense that the #2 puts the sixers over the luxury tax so that might necessitate a Iguodala trade...that seems extreme to me

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Steve reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:36
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Very extreme. Snider has always said he would pay the luxury tax if it meant a winning product was on the floor. They would only have to pay the tax for this upcoming season since Dalembert, Kapono, and Green come off the books right?

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:40
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I don't know how it exactly works - but i know those three expire this year and I know louis williams has trade value as a sixth man and I'd happily see him gone...so trading iguodala to get under the tax level seems a last resort when there are other options.

And I don't believe comcast will pay the luxury tax any time soon.

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Matt reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:40
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You keep talking sense like this you're going to take all the fun out of being a Philly sports fan...

Totally agree that DiLeo has earned benefit of the doubt on this pick. If he decided to go with Cousins I would hope we'd try to grab Rubio in a trade.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:39
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+1

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Steve reply to bebopdeluxe on May 19 at 13:45
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?? whats plus one?

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:47
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It's the equivalent of 'reccing' your post - he agress with it strongly :)

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bebopdeluxe reply to Steve on May 19 at 13:48
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+1 is if the Sixers do that trade I would never forgive them. Ever.

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Steve reply to bebopdeluxe on May 19 at 13:52
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Haha ok I get it. Did you see Doug Gottlieb on sc? He needs to stick to the NCAA tourney the draft is obviously not his expertise. Mocked Johnson to the Sixers and Turner dropping to fourth.

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JohnEMagee reply to Steve on May 19 at 14:03
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Did his argument for Turner to 4th have anything to do with his back, injury fears, and the dude that the spurs got int he second round cause he had no cartilege?

I know we are just trying to talk about the draft in here, but is there any team that could use someone like Thad Young?? And maybe we could get a legit 4 to play behind Brand and maybe even take some time away from Dalembert. Any ideas??

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Steve reply to Sean on May 19 at 13:41
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We have a legit four to play behind Brand and in a year or so take over for Brand in Speights. If the coach is Doug Collins he will light a fire under his ass to play defense or sit the bench. Thad's still on his rookie deal so if he is traded he's more likely to be packaged with Iguodala. I highly highly doubt Thad is traded Stefanski loves him and thinks this past season Thad was confused by BraceFace's systems on both ends of the floor.

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JohnEMagee reply to Sean on May 19 at 13:41
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If Thaddeus Young ever had trade value, I'd have to guess it's mostly gone now.

ANd I'm not ready to give up on the theory that:

  1. Speights can play the 4 and 5 if necessary
  2. Speights can develop
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Sean reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:46
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You are right... I need to take everything I saw this past season and throw it out the window. Cant forget that Thad Young was averaging 20 a game towards the end of the 09 season. I have very little faith in Speights though. But I will give him one more chance to prove me wrong. Just doesn't seem to care

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bebopdeluxe reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:47
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I agree that it is worthwile to see if Collins can get through to Speights to rebound and play D.

I think that - after last season - Thad's value is depressed right now...but perhaps if a guy that DiLeo likes falls into the high-teens (say, Larry Sanders of VCU for example), perhaps you can make a trade like that.

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bebopdeluxe reply to bebopdeluxe on May 19 at 13:49
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I'm not saying that I know that DiLeo likes Sanders, per se...just using him as an example...

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JohnEMagee reply to bebopdeluxe on May 19 at 13:50
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Here's the thing, no matter who the coach is, Speights has to show it in the off season, he needs to be working on his flaws (numerous as they are) now...and he needs to be in a REAL summer league showing that he's worked on those issues, if it waits until camp and requires a new coach to motivate him, then I'm done with him...TRUE stars are self motivated

Jrue said last night that he, M16 and Meeks were going to be working out in Philly sometime in June. I am hoping that means Speights is starting to get it. I'd wish the Sixers could arrange for him to work with Olajuwon to improve his D. That would be ideal, imo, since they were similarly sized players

Was Hakeem fat? :)

lol.

He looked damned cut in that Kobe video from last summer, that's for sure.

BTW, I heard Al Jeff is going down there already, love to see Speights there too. If Speights could be solid on the glass and serviceable defensively, this team could really be dangerous in a couple years.

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JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 19 at 15:17
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Here's my question

Speights just has some serious flaws in his basic approach to the game...wouldn't it be better if he committed to working on his own - what is playing 3 on 3 with his team mates going to help the fundamental flaws in his game?

If a guy shoots 500 shots a day (or 1,000) but all 1,000 still have a flawed shooting mechanic - so what - the mecahnics are still flawed...it''s not just 'playing basketball' it's working on what's wrong...what's wrong with speights requires focus on HIMSELF

Well, that's part of it, yes. But it also requires the dedication to work and get himself into shape. Playing 3 on 3 with his teammates when he could be lounging at the cheesecake factory all summer is definitely a good thing.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 19 at 15:22
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Basketball players LIKE to play basketball games - they like to play fun 3 on 3 games - there's no defense :)

Maybe he works on his passing in those 3 on 3 games - but without a coach there - who believes he will?

The "coach" was there last year when they were working out at the Sixers practice facility. Since the coach was EFJ, that probably wasn't a good thing, but these aren't just unorganized pickup games.

True, he does need more initiative and focus, but his biggest skill issue is defense, which really cannot be improved solo. If he's working with teammates and focusing on locking down with better technique, he gets more from it against "live-ammo", especially if the New Coach is also there to lightly critique/supervise.

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JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 19 at 15:27
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Whether or not defense can be improved solo - we can agree or disagree but how is playing with jrue and evan turner and even iguodala going to help speights work on his defense..he needs BIG MEN to defend...maybe it helps his passing - but he needs to be dedicated to changing his game...

Oh certainly. I wasn't saying you cannot improve your D-technique practicing solo, I was saying that it might be better working on it against comp. Playing against air doesn't help as much as facing a live body. I'd figure they play against some local talent(i.e. maybe Dante Cunningham comes back?).

As long as he isn't defending Jason Smith it'll be worthwhile :)

Well, you gotta start small right? lol

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Rodney Buford reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 13:48
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Trading Thad now makes no sense - his value is rock bottom and he still has his rookie contract. No reason to sell low on him.

HA Gottlieb just put Johnson at two for us. Thats hilarious what an idiot.

Alright, here's another reason why Turner looks like a valuable commodity: He can fit right in with an aggressive defensive scheme. I saw him play a lot this year but never really focused on his defense, but everything I've read says that his weaknesses are his shooting and turnovers.

I think he fits in better than Brian's dream for Avery Bradley, because Turner can guard more threes effectively with his size. This team's perimeter defense becomes absolutely lockdown if we get Turner, who I read is a smart, versatile, and aggressive defender.

Pick Turner,offer Thad & Sammy to Minny or Kings.Use the pick for Favors-Cousins-Johnson,whoever falls to 4-5.

I think Kings may actually do this.

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JohnEMagee reply to Levent on May 19 at 15:17
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Why would the kings do that - did geoff petrie take stupid pills?

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Levent reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 15:22
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They were hot on Sammy last year,he is also expiring.Thinking of expiring contrats,we may offer Kapono instead of Thad for a team looking for some cap space next summer.

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JohnEMagee reply to Levent on May 19 at 15:24
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I doubt they are willing to give up a top 5 pick for a guy who is making 10 million this year and STILL has a 15% trade kicker...his value will be higher as the year progresses.

And 'hot for' Dalembert last year means he would have been traded if they were really 'hot for him' cause the sixers have been trying to dump him for over 18 months...

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Levent reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 16:18
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Dunno about their cap space but,Melo & Evans would be sick.If they are consedering going for Melo in '11,there's no reason not to do it.

Just watching Turner highlights...and the comparison is there- a craftier Brandon Roy. It's the only way I can think to describe his moves, crafty. He finishes extremely well with both hands. His head is always up when he has the ball. He always gets where he wants to go- kind've Chris Paul-esq, except he doesn't do it with straight up speed and quickness, he does it with...craftiness! Craftiness doesn't age. Craftiness is like fine wine in that it only gets better with age. He's going to be fun to watch and hopefully we'll be watching him next to our boy Jrue next year.

IMO, The better comp is Manu or Current Kobe(the crafty, less athletic version).

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jkay reply to rswknight on May 19 at 16:40
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yeah definitely Ginobili.

Stefeanski was on 610 WIP earlier and seemed really excited about Turner(he didn't say directly he would take Turner, but he strongly implied it) and he said he would have to be blown away to trade the second pick.

That's what I figured

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Rodney Buford reply to ojr107 on May 19 at 16:01
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A friggin' Men


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