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It Looks Like Collins Is the Guy

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JohnEMagee on May 19 at 16:06
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Feh

I was hoping everyone in philadelphia was wrong - eskin got my hopes up

If Collins is the coach,than the pick is Turner.This guy is the master of half-court basketball and for what I heard,Turner is a perfect fit with his high IQ.

Collins is certainly a better fit for the Sixers + Turner than he was before they won the #2 pick. I have less concern that Collins/ES will bring in band-aid vets now that they can draft a guy who will be an impact player from day one.

Also Turner fits the Collins lead role perfectly (Think Hill in Detroit.) Certainly better than trying to force Iguodala into that role.

And maybe Collins is smart enough to figure how to make work the potent Jrue/Turner/Iguodala combo. Those three can all break down their men, pass, run the floor and defend. Now Collins has to put them in a position where their skills translate into easy shots- so they might be able to hide their lack of a pure shooter by improving shot selection.

I do still have concerns about Collins history of snails pace offense that is all about set plays and complex offense. That is not needed as much with the break down talent this team will possess.

I am enthused by the improved defense and discipline that Collins represents.

I still think overall pace is overstated when we're talking about the Sixers. A slow pace doesn't negate their running.

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johnrosz on May 19 at 17:02
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Glad to hear it. Just a random thought about our proposed 1-3 next year. In Jrue, Turner and Iggy the Sixers have 3 guys that are capable of a triple double or close to it on any given night... How many teams can say that?

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tk76 reply to johnrosz on May 19 at 17:12
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Honestly, the may be set for a long time at PG/SG/SF. Not just the starters, but Lou, Meeks, Thad and maybe Carney is a nice set of complementary back-ups who can give you some scoring off the bench (against lesser defenders.)

But they can get the most out of those three starters- which remains TBD given shooting and ball dominant concerns. I'm heartened by the fact that all three are unselfish with the ball and smart.

do you think carney would re sign with the sixers after the year he just had?

Plus, both Turner and Iguodala hail from the Chicago area and grew up Bulls fans. Helps the buy-in factor, especially if he starts name-dropping while coaching them up. Is there an off-chance he brings in Scottie as a "consultant"? Maybe Darryl Dawkins(minor league and college head coach) as a big man coach?

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tk76 reply to rswknight on May 19 at 17:16
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Would Pippen help Iguodala? Personality wise those guys are almost too similar in both a good and bad way.

As an advisor on wing defense, playmaking with a better post game(especially using the jump hook), he could help Dala & Turner & Thad

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on May 19 at 18:25
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I'm sorry but logic like this is ridiculous and silly for people to even suggest.

How much coaching has scottie pippen done since he retired?

HoustoN?
Chicago?
Portland? (he played in portland right)

ALl places he played and was loved...doug collnis wasn't the coach who made the bulls the title boys - phil was -

Doing and coaching are not the same thing - not all players are good coaches and you don't HAVE to have played the game at a professional level to be a good coach

Coaching is about understanding and conveying of information

He has been a special asst in LA under Phil Jackson for a couple of years, which is why I made the suggestion. That said, I am not sure of Collins' relationship with him

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JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 19 at 18:43
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I had no clue he was even coaching - they never mention it in LA (and they make HUGE mention of ho Bynum used to work with Kareem but doesn't any more I don't think)

It was a consultancy role to help the players adjust to the Triangle as well as playing D for Phil, nothing really major. Still, he's had a taste, who knows if he's interested?

Scottie was known as the Bulls defensive QB during their 3-peat, to the point that if a player was doing something not in the game plan, Phil would let them do it as long as Scottie's order was the reason.

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JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 19 at 18:56
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We should bring back marck jackson (the other one) just to hear him yell at sam during games at the (empty) wacovia :)

LOL. That would be hilarious! We could also save money and have that pumped through the PA for every Sam screw-up too

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JohnEMagee reply to rswknight on May 19 at 19:34
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It was just hysterical - cause at least once a game yo'd hear right through the tv speakers SAM

It's a sad fact but I've never seen a team that plays run-and-gun winning a title.Slow paced halfcourt offence is a good thing if we can work it out.

60's Celtics ring a bell? How about the Showtime Lakers? Both of those teams were fastbreak oriented groups.

What you mean to say is that you don't see teams that don't defend well(aka Nellie/D'Antoni Ball) and/or cannot execute consistently in the half-court(Cheeks/DiLeo Sixers, modern Hawks) cannot win titles.

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Levent reply to rswknight on May 19 at 17:23
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Just check 2000's.Spurs,Detroit,Boston..all slow paced teams.It's extremely hard to win a title this way.I wish it wasn't,fuck,I wish Suns had won 3 titles in the '00s.But they didn't and D'antoni-Suns was not defending bad.

Slow pace does not mean they won't run. They've had slow paces for the past three seasons and still been near the top of the league in fast break points. We aren't talking about jacking shots up early in the shot clock, we're talking about grinding out half-court possessions, and most importantly, making the other team use a big portion of the shot clock when they have the ball. The difference is, the Sixers have the personnel to (1) cause turnovers and (2) convert those turnovers into transition points.

I don't see Collins discouraging the Sixers from running off turnovers or stops, if the pace does slow even further, it will be because of better defense. I'm also heartened because the Sixers would have three plus, plus rebounders on the perimeter, all of which are more than capable of turning a defensive board into a fast break.

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Rich reply to Brian on May 19 at 18:32
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For that very reason I'm liking Collins more and more as a coach. With Turner, a grind-it-out half-court game could become much more effective.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on May 19 at 18:44
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Yes - turner would make the sixers better at half court
thank god the rest of the roster still sucks at it

The Suns could not get stops when they needed under D'Antoni. According to many of the Spurs during this most recent Suns-Spurs series that the difference was that the Spurs could not score at will like they used to be able to do against the Suns.

As I said, if a running team was also a high-caliber defensive squad and could execute consistently in the half-court, there is no reason they cannot win titles. The history of the game says so.

Brian,

Glad to read your thoughts. I agree 100% and believe that Collins will bring stability to this mess of a team. Is he perfect, no. But, we need stability. A coach for a few years that is respected in this city. Collins will have that, IMO.

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Statman reply to DeanH on May 19 at 17:39
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A coach for a few years that is respected in this city.

I'm happy with Collins too and have stated previously why I think he'll be a good coach for the Sixers. However, I have no delusions about Philly fans giving him respect. He'll have about a year-and-a-half of a grace period (if that), after which the fans will turn on him if they haven't at least improved over 08-09.

Nobody could have been more respected by Sixer fans than Mo Cheeks when he came to Philly (other than maybe Dr. J), but eventually the fans turned on Cheeks too. The generation we live in is impatient and unforgiving ...

I have been a 76er fan since 1965ish. I went to games when Hal Greer started, and saw many of Mo's games. But, from the beginning, I was not a big fan of Mo Cheeks. He was a great player and teacher, but did not know how to coach and make adjustments. I was not one of those that turned on him, I did not like him from the beginning. I was completely confused why they hired him when every record he had as a coach was losing.

The final straw for me was the game shortly after EB came back and the fans were booing him and he was playing horrible. Mo just left him in, made no adjustments and on it went. Another game he used all his timeouts ahead of time. He was/is not a good NBA HEAD coach. Never had a winning record.

Collins has a winning record (Mo never did) and has coached superstars. He obviously knows basketball and knows the players in the league. I understand why some do not like him but I do wonder if they were around when Doug was back in the 70's. I remember Doug as a leader and a wonderful player!

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JohnEMagee reply to DeanH on May 19 at 19:28
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I'm glad you think that way and have been a fan for a long while.

His previous record and ability to coach stars means nothing to me

the fact that he's been out of the game for close to a decade and got fired in washington (only to be replaced by eddie jordan) mean more to me than him coaching michael jordan 20 years ago - the game has changed since then - what he did 20 years ago means nothing to me

But it's a name - and if it appeals to fans like you who think such things matter than good for stefanski - he got what he wanted.

PS - lenny wilkens has a really shitty won loss records - was he a bad coach?

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Statman reply to DeanH on May 19 at 20:08
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Okay, I slightly misunderstood your "respect" comment, since you were talking primarily about "respect as a head coach" while I was thinking about respect as a player and a coach. In any case, Cheeks did win 49 and 50 games his first two seasons with the Blazers, so it's a bit misleading to say he never won anywhere. (By the way, I read that he is being considered for the Bulls opening.)

But I'm with you on Collins. He played during the dawn of my basketball-watching days, but I remember he was one of the few Sixers who moved without the ball on those dysfunctional teams of the late 70's. Hopefully he will be able to teach that to the current Sixers (though playing a certain way and teaching it are two different things, as we saw with Cheeks).

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tk76 reply to DeanH on May 19 at 17:46
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You are spot on about the stability issue. This will be Sam's 8th coach in 8 seasons. Not saying that is why he has issues, but a young team needs some consistency for the players and team to reach their potential.

Of course, some of the problem has been the coaches they have hired are not great... but that just further implicates BK/ES as lousy GMs.

Alsong those lines, is no one else worried that getting Turner will save Stefanski's job- and give him more rope to do long term damage to this franchise. I have next to no faith in his ability to make the right choices to turn young talent into a contender.

I don't have a lot of faith in Stefanski either. I'd love to know what he's thinking. Right now, he should be looking at the roster and taking a deep breath. This team will be markedly better next season with Turner (or Favors) and a real coach. He doesn't need to do anything drastic to get them back to the playoffs. He needs to take a measured approach.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 19 at 17:51
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I'll give you an insight to his thought process

MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB
MUST SAVE MY JOB

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tk76 reply to JohnEMagee on May 19 at 17:55
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You might find it amusing that I got my head chewed off at RealGM for worrying that getting Turner could lead to us being stuck with Stefanski for the forseeable future.

Basically, winning the #2 pick means Stefanski is being rewarded for his failures.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on May 19 at 18:15
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But see every one at realgm is smart - i got banned for calling them stupid :)

it doesn't surprise me any more than some of the 'bandwagon' jumpers over at jordans blog who suddenly care about the sixers.

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tk76 reply to Brian on May 19 at 17:53
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Agree. The GM should target Brand's expiring year as a chance to trade for a star that pushes this team to contender status.

Anything before then should be with that future in mind. That means don't waste cap space on a middling vet next summer. Don't make a stupid trade now. Basically, don't worry about anything other than developing players next year and let the talent win for itself.

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ojr107 reply to Brian on May 19 at 18:02
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smh1980 reply to ojr107 on May 19 at 19:21
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It sounds like Stefanski already made up his mind that ET is the guy.

If we take Turner and Collins is our coach how does the Sammy situation play out? No more top 10 picks, no big cap room?

Once Sammy's deal expires there will be cap space along with Kapano and others , right? That cap room for 2011-2012 could be decent.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rodney Buford on May 19 at 19:22
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Well the sixers have close to 50 million committed in 2011/2012 (story tellers already has 2n round pick money listed)...and two players thaddeus young and jason smith either need to be extended or let go or they have cap holds of 3 times their salary for that year until their situation is resolved.

So they have cap room if they renounced thad and smith right away - if they resign either it probably eats up what little cap room that they would have

So no - the 11/12 cap room probably won't be decent (and that doesn't factor in the pending lock out.

The sixers may not be paying the luxury tax folks but they are FAR over the salary cap number :)


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