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Pressing Questions - 5/21

Tom Moore on May 21 at 0:44

Turner Thursday at the combine: "I think (Andre) Iguodala is a great player. I think Jrue Holiday is a great player. Thaddeus Young - all of them are great players. If I go there, I think I’m in a win-win situation."

Ugh, I was just watching the tape of today's combine and BK brought up a terrible memory. The last time the Sixers had the #2 pick, they traded it for #7 and #21 that year. He actually said that trade helped them reshape the team. They acquired Tim Thomas, Anthony Parker and Eric Montross.

To be fair, though, that was really a one-man draft. Billups went third but it took him forever to turn into anything decent. McGrady was in there. Man, they better not screw this up.

Wasn't Jim Jackson part of that trade as well? I was trying to remember the other day how they went about Iverson/Jackson/Stackhouse so maybe I am misrembering.

Yeah, actually I think he was.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 21 at 11:27

The sixers also picked shaun bradley #2 instead of deciding between hardaway or weber.

Different regimes both times weren't they?

charlie ace reply to JohnEMagee on May 21 at 11:58

Hell yeah! He's the guy who made me think it was a great trade. The guy had superstar written all over him at the time (to me anyway). Another Ohio State star.

charlie ace reply to Brian on May 21 at 11:57

That's awful. Not to even mention '93 and Shawn Bradley. #2. Between Webber & Hardaway.

I'm so effing nervous.

I kinda wish Turner had been less diplomatic and said something like, "I think Iguodala is a great player, but he shouldn't be compelled to try to score 20 PPG. That's what I'll come in and do." or

"I hope Thaddeus Young starts defending and rebounding well enough to play at the 4, otherwise he'll spend a lot of time on the bench."

Heh. You know, I bet he didn't see the Sixers play more than once last season, if that. This also relates to Collins, how many Sixers games has he announced in the past three seasons? It can't be more than 5 or 6, and I don't think he did any this past season, did he?

JohnEMagee reply to Alvin on May 21 at 11:28

Yes, because the new kid on the block should definitely open his big mouth - that's a great way to start his career - being an egtistical know it all shit

The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on May 21 at 19:32

egtostical know it all shit....

these people are the scum of earth

say washington surprises everyone and takes turner. we obviously take wall, but do you see him starting at the 2 with jrue at the point or the other way around?

Tray reply to Tyler on May 21 at 1:29

Not happening. There are those who think we shouldn't even take Turner. I hate to quote Stephen A., but:

"Ask anyone and they'll tell you Turner is the No. 2 pick," one scout for a lottery team told me. "All-around, he's the second-best player in the draft. But Wesley Johnson is a better athlete, defender, and shooter. He actually might be a better pick if it were not for questions about his man-to-man defense, since Syracuse plays that matchup 2-3 zone all the time.

"Derrick Favors could be a star power forward in this league. And you don't teach the agility and size DeMarcus Cousins has on him, although there are questions about his discipline for playing hard all 82 games. The Sixers are in a very interesting position."

Stephen A is such a moron. He actually made the argument that "Turner only had 2 triple doubles."

teddygreen reply to Brian on May 21 at 14:13

i think SAS liked the Sixers a lot more when Billy King was the general manager....

charlie ace reply to Tray on May 21 at 12:10

Well, you're not quoting Screamin', you're quoting a scout, and those are the only quotes I pay much attention to.

"All-around, he's the second-best player in the draft. But Wesley Johnson is a better athlete, defender, and shooter. He actually might be a better pick if it were not for questions about his man-to-man defense..."

I would rather say: "All-around, he's the second-best player in the draft because he has GREAT BASKETBALL INSTINCTS and studies the game. Johnson will never be close to the ballhandler that Turner is. He doesn't attack the rim unless he's got a clear path. The "fact" that Turner is not an elite athlete obscures the consensus opinion that he's an above-average athlete by NBA standards, a rating I would also give to Brandon Roy, Paul Pierce & Ray Allen, to name a few."

Johnson was awful in that tournament loss to Butler. Turner may have been disappointing too, but he carried that team after coming back from a serious back injury. By all accounts he had a phenomenal year. Johnson had a great year until March, when he was just ok.

Johnson gets a lot less criticism because he hides the weak parts of his game. Turner tries everything and ends up looking relatively ordinary in some aspects of the game, but you have to look at the big picture. I think he's a rare talent. Roy was exactly this kind of prospect, in my opinion, and Turner is even better.

Maybe Flip is blowing smoke, maybe not.

You're assuming Stephen A actually has sources, and isn't making shit up. I'm not comfortable in that assumption.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on May 21 at 12:15

Even if SAS had sources the assumption that he has a clue is a giant step

charlie ace reply to Brian on May 21 at 12:17

Good point.

By the way, The Inquirer(see below for link) has posted a very strange series of photos of "Doug Collins through the years." They're all of him doing bad things. The captions are oddly snarky. "Doug Collins does his best not to foul Ken Charles." "Slick Watts reaches around Doug Collins to trip the ball away for a steal." "Walt Frazier relays his shot as he fakes Doug Collins into attempting to block it. He never got his shot off; Collins fouled him on the way down." "Doug Collins watches his pass intercepted by Rich Kelley." "Doug Collins looks for help as he gets caught between Rudy Tomjanovich and Mike Newlin." "Doug Collins lunges forward as he strains for possession of the basketball." "Doug Collins holds his knee as he lies on the floor after being hurt." "Doug Collins is ejected from the game." "Doug Collins looks on as Kwame Brown practices." And all the coaching photos of him are in losses.


Here is something I found interesting.

Tennesee's players were asked who was better, John Wall or Evan Turner. The guy who guarded Wall (one of 3 guys who took turns) said Turner is better. The guy who guarded Turner said Wall was better. But the guy who picked Wall said Cousins is better than Wall (he said Cousins should be Player of the Year).


Tray reply to Chris on May 21 at 2:12

I just get worried that Turner could turn out to be some sort of Ed O'Bannon, Adam Morrison. After all, these things happen. Morrison really was an unbelievably skilled player, he had all these weird floaters and release points and what-not. But what actually made him so dominant in the college game was that he was just a whole lot bigger than his defenders, a 6'8 guard being guarded by 6'4 kids. He never had any athleticism or speed, and once he was matched up against defenders his size, he wasn't shooting over anybody anymore. Turner also is a guy who had really great size, in college, for his position, but may lack the athleticism to be nearly as big an impact player on the next level. It almost seems like Roy's success is fueling Turner's draft position, because Roy himself looked just as good in college, if not better, but people weren't nearly as high on Roy as they are on Turner. Now, there's this precedent, and people seem to assume that Turner will be the next Roy. It doesn't usually work out for so-so athletes though.

Chris reply to Tray on May 21 at 2:18


I agree with a lot of what you say. There are guys in the L who succeed with craftiness alone but it seems the guys with the really good athletic ability are more successful (as long as they have some skills).

The part of that article that I found most interesting is the guy who thought Wall was the better of the two thought Cousins is better than Wall. It makes me wonder if we should drop down to #4 (and maybe pick up another #1 or Kevin Love) and take Cousins. Though in his case I worry Cousins could turn into the next Eddy Curry or Stanley Roberts.

charlie ace reply to Chris on May 21 at 12:37

I hear you. Like Russell Westbrook, who wasn't that good of a basketball player coming out of UCLA, more of a great athlete. Now he's both.

You have to look at the mental aspect. And the personality. Turner has the kind of attitude the Sixers need.

Joe reply to Tray on May 21 at 8:14

One major difference between Morrison and Turner is that Turner could not have his scoring translate to the NBA and still be productive. That was not the case with Morrison.

Turner averaged 9 boards last year....

Tom Moore reply to Joe on May 21 at 11:03

Morrison couldn't defend or make a jump shot in the pros. That pick by Jordan was almost as bad as Kwame Brown.

Brian: with respect to Favors over Turner, one thing has me sold on Turner - his personality. Apparently he has some sort of mean streak reputation about him, with the nickname and the buzzer walk off against Tenn. 80% of that stuff is probably exaggerated rumor but I think he's got a real assertive personality. The kind that can be a leader on a rudderless team like ours.
Out of the top 5, I think he has the most intangibles, having to work with the least physical talent. That bodes pretty well in my book. The Sixers need someone to be what Iverson used to be (or close at least). Its clear Iguodala is not made up for that.

Court_visioN reply to jkay on May 21 at 2:18

this is one thing i wanted to comment on because whether it's true or not, the perception around the team is there is little on court leadership. Now whether or not this was Eddie Jordan's doing is up in the air at this point but adding Doug Collins and, potentially, Evan Turner, could add some leadership and some swag into this team. I'm not sure drafting Favors would accomplish the same thing.

I can't access youtube right now but there is a montage of ET highlights from the past year. One of my favorites was his FU 360 dunk @ West Virginia and he certainly looked aggressive/assertive/fired up at the visiting crowd after that. He is NOT a laid back guy on the court and he showed that again in the tournament.

charlie ace reply to jkay on May 21 at 12:16


Seems quite a good article to me. I'd love ET but he could be right :-(


JohnEMagee reply to Massimo Benenti on May 21 at 12:19

It's doubtful he's right, it's doubtful that article makes any sense - it's bleacher report

that article's horrible.

smh1980 on May 21 at 2:21

Doug Collins would probably be treated like one but it wouldn't be deserving considering they won 41 two years ago and should have one at least that in 09-10. I would say if he brings this team to 50 wins this season then he would be deserving of that title.

I'm not going to argue with you about Favors over Turner. Collins has 4 years to mold this team into a legitimate contender. The 4th year shows me that they are commiting to the development of this team. Favors should be the guy w/ Moses Malone teaching him full time. If this was Utah with this pick then I would say take Turner because he would make them a title contender right away. You have to take upside here and then need.

We lose Sammy next year and will not be in a position to take a quality big in the 2011 draft. Turner will vault us up to the 5th seed in next years playoffs and we will never get over the hump because we don't have an inside presence.

What looks better to you?...

Jrue/Iggy/Dwight Howard or
Jrue/Iggy/Brandon Roy

I use these 2 players because Favors and Turner have been compared to these NBA stars... But look where Roy brings his team every year without a dominate big... to the 4th/5th seed. They struck out on Ogden and they can't draft high enough to get an impact player now. That will be the sixers if we take Turner. Dwight Howard went to the finals last year and is still playing right now while Portand watches from home.

That's something of a false choice really.

If you choose to build a perimeter trio of Jrue/Turner/Dala, the real question becomes is Speights salvageable? Because if Speights can become passable defensively and solid on the boards then the other big can be a defensive banger(Kendrick Perkins/Cole Aldrich type), which can be found in the mid-teens moving forward, if not free agency. Speights is the interior offensive presence they need, which can be balanced by playing him next to a defensive anchor.

I would love for the Sixers to get another pick to draft either Aldrich, Orton, Alabi or Kevin Seraphin(who will likely be available in the 20s, where Collins can hopefully convince the brass to buy a pick).

Plus, Turner gives you the scoring wing you will need to get over the hump. Look at ORL(with the REAL D12) now, that is the one piece they are really missing. If you switched out Vince Carter for Brandon Roy, they'd be MUCH better off.

To answer the question:

Yes, Collins would be something of a local hero with a 45 win year. The team hasn't sniffed 45 since LB left. If he gets this team to +18 with a barely legal backcourt, he would be seen as a genius, locally, especially since the local hoops thinkers don't realize just how badly EJ damaged the team.

I have 2 questions:

1) What would you give up to draft either Aldrich, Whiteside or Udoh for this team?

I would consider giving up Thad for either. I'd prefer to give up Lou, an expiring and maybe a conditional pick).

2) Whhat would you also consider giving up to get either Orton or Serapin?

I think they both have defensive anchor potential but they are also quite raw. I would like to buy a pick in the late 1st, but I would be willing to lose Lou.

sfw reply to rswknight on May 21 at 7:51

agree on all counts!

If I'm going to make a move to get a big in the later lottery, it's going to probably be Whiteside. I'm not sold on Orton. Aldrich is going to go too high for me. Udoh, if he slips into the 10-15 range, I'd try.

But I think teams in the lottery aren't going to be trading their pick away, for the most part, even if it's late lottery. The best bet may be to just buy a late first rounder and grab Alabi or Vornado, someone like that.

If Whiteside was to slip into the late teens somehow, I'd definitely package Thad if I could get him. Same goes for Avery Bradley.

teddygreen on May 21 at 5:06

Chad Ford mentioned in his draft podcast the idea of trading the 2th pick for the 4th, 17th, 23rd.--The Sixers can also insist on the timberwolves taking the contract of Lou Williams once free agency occurs and the twolves become under the cap...

bdownbear reply to teddygreen on May 21 at 6:47

Ignore the rumors. They always hate. We are not taking any mediocre or role players. Turner will be the pick and stop with all these what if crap. Worst case scenario for Turner is an all star. Here I cheered you up a bit.

charlie ace reply to teddygreen on May 21 at 12:43

Agree, nobody's trading a lottery pick - this draft is very deep, like '08 and last year. Somebody like Whiteside, Al Aminu or even Aldrich could turn out to be a star. I'm sure there's an Andrew Bynum in this year's top 15.

teddygreen on May 21 at 5:12

I think that the last time Doug Collins coached was during the 2003-04 rookies vs. sophomore game during all-star week. Doug coached the freshman team from 2003 draft....

teddygreen on May 21 at 6:39

Wolves study hand they have been dealt in draft
The inglorious NBA lottery is over, and David Kahn can get down to serious business about the draft and possible trades.

By PHIL MILLER, Star Tribune

Last update: May 20, 2010 - 7:35 AM

David Kahn hates the NBA draft lottery, and that was before the Timberwolves became its victim again.

"It is truly a hideous experience. It is just awful," the Wolves' president said of Tuesday's gathering of non-playoff teams, all praying that random luck could manage what their forlorn rosters could not. "You could almost sense the desperation in the room."

Yet despite ending up with the fourth pick after turning in the second-worst record in the league, the Wolves' roster overhaul is not necessarily in desperate shape. As Kahn said after the lottery, "we have enough of an arsenal" to acquire the foundation of a winner -- draft picks, cap space and tradable assets.

Fourth pick is hardly an afterthought, too. Hall of Famer Dave Cowens was drafted fourth, as was Olympic gold medalist Chris Paul and this season's rookie of the year, Tyreke Evans.

"People say this is a two-player draft, but that's just at the very top," said ESPN.com draft analyst Chad Ford. "Actually, there are eight to 10 very good players before you see a drop-off. The Wolves should have no trouble getting a player who can step right in and help them."

That player may be Syracuse swingman Wesley Johnson, according to several early mock drafts, including Ford's. The 6-7 Johnson will turn 23 before the season tips off this fall and "may not have star potential," Ford wrote Wednesday. But he was a 41 percent three-point shooter in college and averaged eight rebounds a game.

Kahn headed to Chicago on Wednesday to scout the NBA's draft combine, in which the top draft prospects are measured, weighed, interviewed and put through a series of drills in front of scouts and executives from every team. Most of those same talent evaluators will be in Minneapolis next week, when a few dozen mid-first round prospects and second-rounders will work out and scrimmage. Then the Wolves will begin bringing in the players that most interest them for private workouts.

Perhaps the Wolves will settle upon Johnson, or become impressed with Kentucky center DeMarcus Cousins or Bloomington native Cole Aldrich instead. Derrick Favors, a power forward from Georgia Tech, is also projected to be drafted among the top five, and while he seems an odd fit for a team that already has Al Jefferson and Kevin Love on the roster, "we're not ruling out anything," Kahn said.

That includes, presumably, a pursuit of Ohio State swingman Evan Turner, expected to be taken second by Philadelphia. Kahn denied an ESPN.com report that the Wolves told Turner they would choose him if they won the lottery, but he didn't deny that Turner's scoring ability is an intriguing fit for the offense-challenged Wolves.

"If we have an opportunity to take somebody who we think is a very special player, that has some greatness to him, then I think we need to figure out a way to go get that player," Kahn said. "But I don't think you try to manufacture who that great player might be. You have to really believe that in your hearts and minds."

And then convince a trading partner, too. The Sixers are willing to talk, but closing a deal is a different matter.

"We can entertain offers from a lot of people," Sixers General Manager Ed Stefanski told the Philadelphia Inquirer after the lottery. "We need to listen to everything."

But he also spoke of the excitement of pairing the No. 2 pick, presumably Turner, with point guard Jrue Holiday in a backcourt for the future.

That's only one of countless options the Wolves figure to consider and pursue.

"We actually are better positioned than most teams to change our ballclub this summer," Kahn wrote Wednesday in an e-mail to season-ticket holders. "We are no longer burdened by bad contracts."

The Timberwolves can create as much as $25 million in space under the projected salary cap of $56.1 million, though it would mean declining the options on Ryan Gomes' ($4.2 million) and Nathan Jawai's ($1 million) contracts. Even by keeping that pair, the Wolves should have $20 million to offer to free agents if they choose.

In addition to the fourth pick in the draft, Minnesota owns Nos. 16, 23, 45 and 56. And if they pursue a trade, they figure to find plenty of interest in players such as Jefferson, Love, Gomes or Ramon Sessions. Or even European guard Ricky Rubio and center Nikola Pekovic, whose rights the Wolves hold.

"This is going to be a very tumultuous summer," Kahn said, "and not just for us. It will be a very volatile trading period heading into the draft."

Kahn is desperate. He's also a moron. That's a bad combo if you're a Timberwolves fan, but I don't think it's something the Sixers can really take advantage of, unfortunately. If the T-Wolves had wound up third, then we could be talking, but dropping to #4 takes Turner and Favors off the table, which ends the discussion for me.

charlie ace reply to Brian on May 21 at 12:31

Man, you're cracking me up today. You are fired up.

teddygreen on May 21 at 6:51

During the Lakers-Suns game, our very own Doug Collins said that the triangle offence is based on little dribbling and requires more ball movement. If that's the case wouldn't Evan Turner be a bad fit since he appears to be a player that really pounds the rock ala Tyreke Evans?

Did he indicate he would be running the Triangle offense?

I think he was saying why would Minnesota want Turner, since Minnesota runs the triangle.

My 2 questions; Every thing happening, hiring Collins and picking Turner, smells of quick turnaround and not "developing the young guys". I think Jrue could be our "leader" and feel a Johnson type player is a better fit than Turner because it would allow Jrue to have the ball in his hands. I take Favors and get Johnson type player from in the league or next years draft.

1] will they move young guys for instant gratification?
2]is there a plan, either laid down by E.S. or explained in his interview by our coach?

After hearing how C.George is outplaying Henry and J.Anderson in workouts and how at 6!8" he is seen as a 2/3 and watching him bury 4 straight 3!s from past the top of the key if he will be there at #16 and a role player can be had at #23 than the Minn. trade may be an option. Cousins, George, Bradley and get under the tax [lose L.Will.


Chuck Norris on May 21 at 8:31

-Sixers trade Andre Iguodala for Jeff Green and Thabo Sefolosha/1st round pick.

-Thad Young for Memphis's first round picks 12 and 28?

-Brand and Lou Williams for Calderon and filler(Evans/Banks).

If Speights does not work out, you can insert Green at the PF spot and Sefolosha at the SG or SF spot.

Sixers moves:
- Trade Iggy & Lou WIll for B. Udrih, J. Thompson, Nocioni & 2nd rnd pick(3rd in 2nd round)

- Draft Turner & best available Center in 2nd rnd

sfw reply to sfw on May 21 at 9:20

Correction(somehow forgot about Speights):

sfw reply to sfw on May 21 at 9:31

AND Willie!

Ryan F reply to sfw on May 21 at 9:51

So basically...Iguodala for two bench players and a 2nd rnd pick? Youre high, aren't you? You can buy a 2nd rnd pick bubba

sfw reply to Ryan F on May 21 at 12:03

I'd consider Jason Thompson a pretty good young still developing big to add to the team.

The Sixers are going nowhere until they find someone to dump Iguodala on. That's addition by subtraction. Job 1 is to get rid of the dead weight.

Stan reply to AWC on May 22 at 7:17

please go back to philly.com

Chuck Norris on May 21 at 10:01

I think Jeff Green makes sense. He can shoot, defend, and rebound. Anyone, can you check Jeff Green;s catch and shoot percentage?

All I am going to say is that If the Sixers would have to be mentally challenged if they draft Favors 2nd. If they want Favors then they should trade down, Turner at the 2nd spot is a no brainer. If they don't want him then at least use his value to get back some assets.

If Favors is 100% the guy they want, then the only trade down they can make is with the Nets. If you trade to #4, he's probably not going to be there.

Don't see the Nets taking Cousins (bad fit with Lopez), so I think you're right. I want no part of Cousins at this point. He's going to get a GM fired.

I understand the temptation to take someone else than Turner whether it is a trade down or another person. BUT, the biggest need this team has is a shooter. That is what Turner is this year. If they do not take Turner, I will be VERY disappointed.

I find it amazing how many people do not appreciate AI9. I believe under Collins, he will be an allstar this year or next year. Last year was a joke and did alot of damage. Thankfully, we now have a strong leader that knows how to play basketball. And knows how to make foul shots under pressure!!!!

Dean, with Turner on the team Iggy will never be an allstar unless we start winning over 50 games a season and we have multiple allstars. Value wise, I would take Jrue and Turner over Iggy. Sorry Brian!

Well, Turner really isn't a shooter. He's definitely a scorer. He's definitely a very good all around player, but he's not solving our shooting woes (if we really have shooting woes anymore).

The thing that I like most about Evan Turner:

Hate to talk across sports, but he has the "DeSean Jackson" swagger that I like. He will be a leader and a guy who the troops rally around. Haven't had that since the old Iverson. Gimme that.

I agree - and he really showed that in the Big Ten and NCAA tournament. There are guys who disappear (and people make up excuses to brush it off) and then there are those who lead and put it on themselves.

JohnEMagee reply to sean on May 21 at 11:31


sean reply to JohnEMagee on May 21 at 11:42

John Magee = Basketball snob

John Magee = Angry man

Ryan F reply to JohnEMagee on May 21 at 12:02

John Magee = Al-Qaeda

JohnEMagee reply to Ryan F on May 21 at 12:14

Look at all you funny folk making Howard Eskin look smart.

You must really hate guys like Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, John Stockton - I mean dear god - they were just great without being douche bags

sean reply to JohnEMagee on May 21 at 12:27

Nothing about saying I like players who are outwardly explicit leaders means I don't like the silent leaders-by-action like nash. I take back the statement about iverson being the last such leader on this team. Dre Miller was that type of leader and I loved having him on our squad.

PolishPower on May 21 at 11:48

My attempt to convince you to choose Turner over Favors.

Just an opinion, but I really think that a team needs a number one offensive option. If you have the opportunity to take a player who can be that option, that should be the first step of any rebuilding team.

Evan Turner has that potential. He has the skills, and the personality. I think the athletic limitations are a bit overstated, and while he is not in the upper echelon of NBA athelets, he is well above average.

Derrick Favors is a lot less likely to develop into a #1 offensive option then Turner. Favors is probably very likely to be a defensive anchor, an abolute defensive game changer, like a Dwight Howard or Ben Wallace.

If anyone is tempted to read Stephen A. Smith's columns over the past couple days, let me save you the trouble.

1. The Sixers got the number 2 pick, and that's a bad thing.
2. Doug Collins is too good of a coach for the Sixers.
3. If the Sixers were smart, they'd draft Wesley Johnson instead of Turner.
4. Doug Collins must be insane for agreeing to coach this team, or he must be really desperate.

To complete the picture, each of those columns was submitted over his Blackberry, probably typed in ALL CAPS to get across the point that he was screaming. 457 exclamation points were also used.

Who the fuck thought hiring this guy back was a good idea?

jkay reply to Brian on May 21 at 12:00

its funny cos most of it is probably true. what a hothead! he was made fot TV.

jkay reply to jkay on May 21 at 12:01

sp: "for"

Rich reply to Brian on May 21 at 13:40

Hahahaha the one yesterday actually got me angry as I felt like a dumber person for reading it. That's tough to do.
Actually Brian, nobody wanted to hire him back, a few years ago the Inky got fed up of him and said, "We can't fire you, but we're gonna reassign you. Your column is gone and if we need you to cover a Temple-Bowling Green football game, you better be there." Stephen A. only writes on his blackberry so there was no chance of that.

Basically he won a lawsuit this year and got his column back at the Inky. Point is, nobody there wanted him back, but they were forced to.

jkay reply to Rich on May 21 at 13:46

he should hook up with Angelo Cataldi and Howard Eskin. = Three Belligerent Dummies.

Brian, these free forum fridays are a great thing! This is absolutely the best time EVER for Sixers bloggers. Keep up the great work!

I read this blog pretty much daily, but never comment. Wanted to throw this idea out though. What if the Sixers moved Igoudala and Jason Smith to Utah for A. Kirilenko and #9? Utah needs a 3 who can defend Kobe and take some of the scoring load off of D. Williams (especially if Boozer leaves). There will be 5-6 big men prospects at #9 for the Sixers to back-up behind Dalembert. You have a guy like Kirilenko at the 3 for a season who brings a lot to the table, and doesn't take a lot off (sorry, that's a Bill Simmons line). Team won't be great, won't be awful though either. The brightside is about $25 million under the cap in 2011 with a chance to make a run at Carmelo and maybe a big (Noah, Nene, Harford?). I truly believe you aren't winning a championship without Kobe, Durant, Melo, Howard, LeBron or Wade on your team in the next ten years. The Celtics might get one this year, but their done after this. Duncan doesn't have enough left in the tank. Melo's Nuggets squad isn't good enough in the West and Billups and Martin aren't getting any younger. If we put enough pieces in place, this could all of a sudden become a very attractive option.

sfw reply to Marty on May 21 at 12:38

interesting. It's good to toss these trade ideas around. Maybe, one will happen. Would like to get more than that BUT the GM and owner would love the salary relief.

If Utah had gotten a higher pick I would've been down with a move like this.

I can see the logic, your lineup would be:


with Lou, Thad, Speights and Udoh/Whiteside/Aldrich coming off the bench. Then AK47 expires and you're pinning all your hopes on getting Melo in free agency (They wouldn't have enough cap space for more than 1 max contract, I don't believe), so you're left with


The problem I have is what are the odds you're going to be able to get 'Melo? And I'm really not sure he's the max contract guy I want, or the type of max contract guy I want. I think I'd rather be patient, let Jrue and Turner develop for a couple of years, and then assess where the team is when Brand's contract is expiring.

I don't see any way we dont take Turner. Remember when Stefanski was brought here he talked about building a bunch of really good players ala Detroit. Jrue Turner Iguodala Speights Dalembert is a very good lineup both now and in the future. I'm making a huge assumption that Speights can be a passable defensive big. Hopefully he's still coming off the bench and Brand can be a 16-8 guy but we all have our doubts about that. But if Stefanski really is still in control Turner will be the pick and its the right pick to make. I agree with you Brian that Favors has the potential to be a star but Stefanski doesn't have the time to wait on Favors and Turner is NBA ready.

Marty reply to Steve on May 21 at 12:32

Only thing to consider when talking about this "NBA-ready" player - last year many wanted Ty Lawson bc he was "NBA-ready" and no denying that he had a nice year. But would any of us trade him for Jrue right now? Hell no. Does ES go against that philosophy this year?

Steve reply to Marty on May 21 at 12:39

But at the top of the draft your not talking about a midround pick that at best can be a spark off the bench like Ty. When you're talking about top 5 nba ready it means he can step in and be a starter right away and still improve. IMO Turner has a much better chance of reaching his potential than Favors. Don't get me wrong I loooove Favors and think in three or four years he can be a Josh Smith-Amare Stoudemire freakish hybrid. But for our team and Stefanski knowing he is on a very short leash he is going to take the player than can help him the most this season.

I think it's 95% we're taking Turner, for good and bad reasons.

1. He is the biggest immediate impact guy in the draft. Not necessarily a bad thing.
2. He's the biggest draw (outside of John Wall). Butts in the seats.
3. He projects to be a #1 scoring option, and quickly.
4. He can operate in the half court, a definite weakness.
5. Size for position is excellent.
6. It's a position of need.
7. Turner is the safe pick, and I just don't see Stefanski going out on a limb for a guy who maybe takes 2 or 3 years to really develop, especially when he probably knows he won't be around that long if he doesn't turn things around.

Alvin reply to Brian on May 21 at 13:55

3, 4 and 6 are the most important reasons why I feel the FO should pick Turner. Turner being primary option is key because it frees up Iggy to play SF and do what he does best. And it means less PT for Willie Green and Jodie Meeks, which can only be a good thing.

Brian's made me a believer in Igoudala so I'm not so positive you HAVE to move him. I think it's possible Turner and he could definitely play together. Does anyone fear that Minnesota could offer taking Brand off the Sixers hands in exchange for #2. Like Jefferson & #4 for Brand #2. Maybe throw in another pick? Then the Sixers would take W. Johnson, or with some luck, Favors at #4. Would you guys do that? Only if Favors was available??

Nick reply to Marty on May 21 at 13:57

Wild speculation ahead.

I've been wondering what we would do if the Wolves trade up to 3. That would be the smart play if they know we want Favors -- trade their midround pick to Jersey to move up and then trade that pick to us to take Elton Brand off our hands, maybe throwing Al Jefferson into it (and we give them Speights). Their trade with NJ being condition on their trade with us.

Would you take that trade? We'd have Jefferson, Favors and Dalembert (for one year) at the 4/5, Iggy and Thad at the 3, JRue at the 1, and . . .? Who's at 2? If we lose Brand, maybe we make a run at Joe Johnson. And let's say we sign him. Best case scenario, you're looking at a starting 5 of JRue, Joe Johnson (nearing 30), Iggy, Al Jefferson and Dalembert with Thad and Favors coming off the bench. Versus a starting 5 of JRue, Turner, Iggy, Brand and Dalembert with Thad and Speights off the bench.

I would rather have the second lineup with Turner.

I too am not entirely sold on Turner, but then again I am not sold on Favors or anyone else not named John Wall. I like turner better than everyone else(minus wall). I guess hes not the spectacular athlete--but if he could turn into a Brandon Roy or Paul Pierce or even Kobe Bryant now---(not as much high flying but a lot of pump fakes and crafty overall play) I would be thrilled.
Iguodola is probably considered a spectacular athlete but lacks other intangibles that I think Turner has. (leadership, clutch play, better midrange game)
As far as favors is considered...he could be great...COULD. Or he could be like so many other big men. A huge disappointment. This front office cant afford to gamble and Turner is LESS of a gamble. And how many forwards do you want on the roster when we dont have a shooting guard?

Turner measured 6'5.75" w/out shoes, 6'7" with. Winspan only 6'8", though. 8'7" standing reach. (Jrue's was 8'4.5" last season).

I don't think that qualifies as great size for a two, honestly.

That info is from Derek, via Twitter.

Rich reply to Brian on May 21 at 13:48

Not tremendous size but not bad size either. Without shoes-

Kobe- 6'4.75. Jordan was approximately that too. Brandon Roy is 6'5.25. Eric Gordon- 6'2. Tyreke Evans 6'4. DeMar Derozan- 6'5.5.

He's bigger than all of those guys so that's something.

Evans' wingspan was 6'11.5", standing reach only an inch better than Turner's.

Those numbers aren't horrible, but I think it's a stretch to say he has great size.

He's exactly the same height (w/o shoes) that Iguodala was at the combine. Iguodala's wingspan was 6'11", 2.5 more inches on AI9's standing reach.

Rich reply to Brian on May 21 at 14:19

Yeah not tremendous, but it still should get the job done on defense when there would be switching. Plus, the wingspan solidifies Iguodala at the 3, which I'm sure plenty will like to hear :)

It's not great but it's not bad either. He is basically a legit 2.

He's comparable to Joe Johnson, actually.

Johnson was 6'8" in shoes with a 6'9" wingspan.

I think Turner plays longer, because he uses a number of scoops and hook layup type moves that maximizes his reach, in addition to being "amphibious" :-).

He's also bigger then BRoy, btw

The only thing I care about concerning Roy vs. Turner is whether Turner will miss a month every year to nagging injuries like Roy does.

True that. Considering he came back from a broken back in half the time, I don't think that will be an issue.

Alvin reply to Brian on May 21 at 13:50

I agree, the wingspan and size doesn't seem anything to crow about.

My pro-Turner argument:

It is exceptionally hard to find a proficient-to-dominant wing scorer who also is both a capable playmaker/passer and good defender, especially one who can close a game.

Players in the league who fit that entire description:
LeBron(though his D is overrated, imo)

All 5 are cornerstones, all 5 have been to the Finals, 4 of them have rings, 3 of them have Finals MVP awards, 3 of them have scoring titles, 2 of them have MVPs.

IMO, Turner could be that type of player. He has that closer mentality with a real nasty streak; he wants to dominate and is perfectly willing to put up serious numbers while also shutting the opposition down on the other end in order to do so.

People often compare Turner to Roy, which I don't agree with. Turner has that cold-blooded edge that filters through his game. Instead, I actually see Ginobili & Current Kobe(with his present athleticism). Like Turner, Ginobili and Current-Kobe use skill & guile combined with their length and deceptive athleticism to create angles and leverage openings to dominate the action. Current Kobe, like Turner, also uses his strength as well, especially when on the block.

Favors is likely to be a great player, but I believe Turner is a notch higher. His only real flaw is his current lack of three-point range, but considering he already has a potent mid-range game(a rarity in the NBA), there is no reason to believe that he will not become a viable 3pt shooter.

I could see Turner averaging 20+ pts, 4-5+ assists, 4-5+ rebounds, 2 steals, 1 block from the jump. He immediately becomes the #1 half-court option, which allows everybody else to slot down into their proper roles. You combine that type of player with Holiday and Iguodala and you really have something.

Turner could allow Iguodala to become something like the player we saw during AI's 1st game back, when he ripped Denver's D to shreds because he wasn't the focus of its attention anymore. Turner also allows Holiday to play off the ball at times and be a finisher, taking advantage of his size, his athleticism and his jumper.

You have those players and you add a defensive big(a Robin Lopez/Noah/Varejao/Kendrick Perkins type, or just keep Sam?) and you can compete. If Speights becomes serviceable defensively and solidly consistent on the boards, you could even contend in a couple of years, provided you get bench support.

teddygreen on May 21 at 14:07

Sixers shopping No. 2 pick?
May, 21, 2010 May 211:07PM ETEmail Print Share By Chad Ford
Archive A number of teams have already looked into the availability of the Philadelphia 76ers' No. 2 pick in the June 24 draft.

The asking price? Several sources said they were told that the Sixers want their trade partner to take Elton Brand off their hands. Good luck with that. With Brand set to earn $51 million over the course of the next three years, he's virtually impossible to trade.

As much as teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, for instance, love Evan Turner, I don't think they love him that much.

Might as well see the rumor in writing...

Well, At least we know where our GM is starting. Like the approach. Let's play some hardball!

Wow, 16.4% body fat on Cousins.

DraftExpress is slowly putting the measurements up here.

Way to step up and prove the doubters wrong there, big fella!

He's going to slip now. I would not be surprised if Aldrich goes in front of him.

It's not all bad for Cousins though. He did have huge wingspan and standing reach.

Holy crap. DeJuan Blair's body fat% last season = 12%.

Is it possible Cousins gained 15-20 pounds since the season ended?

Victory tour, anyone?

Tom Moore reply to rswknight on May 21 at 15:34

Is Cousins related to Speights?

Yesterday he said he lost about 5 lbs, but his body fat % was way down.

If that's way down I'm scared how high it's going to be when he doesn't have the big fat upcoming NBA pay check to keep him in line.

Anybody impressed with Favors measurements? I sure am.
6'10.25" with shoes, 7'4" wingspan, 6.5% body fat...

He might actually be able to play some C after all :))

Favors numbers are good. I want to see the other stuff: vertical, shuttle, sprint.

I'm actually very impressed with Turner's height - he's bigger than all the guys he's been compared to: Roy, Ginobili, etc. Bigger than Vince Carter, Josh Howard, Ray Allen (all considered "big" guards). I think you're picking nits if you're saying his measurements aren't that great. Could it be his "lack" of wingspan is what makes it look like he's not as athletic as some others, not necessarily vertical leap or speed?

His size is fine. I just thought he was a long 6'7" and he's not.

The other numbers are what I'm really interested in. Shuttle and sprint more than vertical, honestly.

Whiteside isn't listed, Derek said he said he had a 7'8" wing span last night.

They're up now. 7'7" wingspan. He's a freak.

Greg Monroe's a little chunky, 11.2% body fat.

Favors has the frame to be a five, no doubt about it. People are drooling over Orton's "NBA Body" and saying he's a five. They're almost the exact same size, only Favors doesn't have the blubber.

PolishPower on May 21 at 15:00

Evan Turner's measurements...
Practically the same as Roy, except he is a 1/2 inch taller.
Larry Sanders comes across as a possible center as well, if he can start the Pittman/Cousins weight gaining program.

Are you a fan of the Doug Collins hire?

John Hollinger
(2:41 PM)

I am. I think he's a better fit in Philly than he would have been in Chicago, which is why I was down on the Bulls' potentially hiring him two year ago. Collins to me is a poor man's Larry Brown -- you can't have him coaching young guys and in two years everyone will be sick of him, but in between he'll get everybody straightened out and max out the team's potential. Philly's 'young' guys are old enough now that they can deal with it, so as long as he doesn't crush Turner's confidence it should work.

What is this about collins not liking rookies and possibly crushing turner's spirit?

This is probably hollinger blaming collins for kwame, I guess. Can't think of anything else he could be referring to.

teddygreen on May 21 at 15:35

76ers set to hire Doug Collins and I am sad

Doug Thonus

Thank god the Bulls didn't sign this guy, but I am a bit remorseful, from a selfish perspective, of losing Doug Collins in the booth. Definitely one of the best, I loved to listen to the games that he calls.

You have to wonder if the prospects of coaching Evan Turner sealed the deal on Collins going to Philadelphia, though it looked like they were going to get it done either way.

As for the effect on the Bulls? I don't get why people are into Doug Collins at this point. The guy burnt out really fast and was a micro-manager. That would have made him better than Vinny Del Negro as the set up man. He'd have done a great job teaching Derrick how to improve on his mistakes for two to three seasons before not being able to take it anymore.

He had a nice win loss record with the Bulls while coaching Michael Jordan, but it's not like the team had better than expected success over that era. His Detroit teams had mega stud Grant Hill and weren't viewed as overachieving. They also failed to ever advance in the playoffs and missed them his final season there.

He then went to Washington to pretend to be coach while Michael Jordan was controlling everything, at least if you believe the books on the topic. We'll just give him a mulligan on that whole thing, because that whole situation was obviously abnormal.

Throw out the Washington years (or count them as a negative), and you're going back 14 years to when he coached in Detroit and was just okay, and over 20 years to go back to the Bulls where he had playoff success (which I think in retrospect, even that measure is only so-so and not unexpectedly good).

I think Collins is a great guy. In all seriousness, if I could pick my top 10 NBA people to hang out with for an afternoon, Doug Collins is probably on the list [speaking of which, what a great article idea]. As a coach? I think he's an NBA caliber coach for sure, but I don't think he's the right fit for where we are right now given his lifespan, past successes, and length of time from his last successful coaching stint.

On top of that, he'd either need to change his whole coaching mantra (slow it down and micromanaging) or his style would have gone completely against the Bulls strengths as a team. If he changes then you have to wonder how good he'd be doing something different, and if not, it'd be a terrible fit.

Are the 76ers getting a good coach that fits their needs in Doug Collins? Perhaps they are. I think Doug Collins is a great first coach for a young superstar, and Evan Turner might be a young superstar. Are the Bulls missing out? Nope. Collins wasn't the right guy for us now. He might have been two years ago, but not anymore.


I just met with Doug yesterday and spent a good half hour talking about Collins to him. Doug also does some work with DraftExpress.

teddygreen reply to Derek Bodner on May 21 at 22:00

That's awesome, going to someone else turf and talking basketball. That's so cool.

Did you guys talk about Evan Turner, and did Doug have any additonal info on Turner since Turner a Chicago...

teddygreen reply to teddygreen on May 21 at 22:01

forgot to include Chicago guy....

Is anyone else taking perverse pleasure in Avery Johnson's over-inflated ego? how many ways can this guy shoot himself in the foot?

apparently the #2 pick is available:


why do i still care about this team?

thats not a rhetorical question -- seriously, somebody pls tell me why i should give a f**k

steve reply to joeykey on May 21 at 17:27

I can't see them trading this pick no matter what the offer is. With the fan base diminishing to virtually zero, trading away a chance to get a franchise player is not a way to get the fans back in the seats. Even if they traded down to four the perception still is that they didn't get a franchise player. Please Ed just sit tight thank God for your luck in the lottery and take Evan Turner.

Well, to be fair, teams may have inquired with the Sixers. That does not mean they are actively shopping it. That is just Chad Ford's slant.

I should also note, they are not doing their jobs if they are not at least listening, and at the same time, its nice that they've set the bar at "Want this pick? It starts with taking Brand."

Tom Moore on May 21 at 17:31

Stefanski via e-mail: "We are very fortunate getting the second choice. We will look at all options."

Mike P reply to Tom Moore on May 21 at 18:30

What type of deal would you guys be open to dealing the second pick?

That is basically a question to everyone. Would taking Brand and all their first round picks be enough?

What if they got the Nets to trade down and swapped picks with us and then took Brand?

If this did happen, we'd have to get Favors back AND get rid of Brands contract.

I'm totally in favor of just taking whoever Washington doesn't out of Turner/Wall (and c'mon they are taking Wall) and then running with a Villain/Jruth backcourt for the next decade.

The only way that pick should be dealt is if the trade offer is some insane David Kahn got drunk and took two PGs in a row tomfoolery.

Jason reply to Mike P on May 21 at 19:02

Only trade i'd do is the #4 pick, Kevin Love, and if possible Wayne Ellington. for our #2, Thad, and Willie.

Then pick Wesley Johnson and i'd be very happy :).

Jason reply to Jason on May 21 at 19:06

^ or even pick Demarcus Cousins and try Ellington/meeks at the two, wouldn't be a bad lineup of Jrue,ellington,Iggy,Love,Cousins or Jrue, Iggy, Wesley, Love,Dalembert.

Tom Moore on May 21 at 18:04
teddygreen on May 21 at 21:43


Collins gets interview by Lynam. Collins gives some hints on how he plans to coach the Sixers...

Forgive me for sounding cynical because i don’t hate the Collins hiring, but when i hear of a NBA coach wanting to coach the Sixers because they grew up in Philly, or currently live in Philly, i can't help think of the Jim O'Brien and Eddie Jordan fiascos. i know that Doug Collins is both a better coach and more personable person than either of those two guys, but its going to take a lot more than nostalgia and residency to coach the Sixers...

From that interview, he seems to get it. I like his philosophy. It sounds very much like the "Defend to Run" Brian has stated and I agree with. He values on-ball and wing defense, plus he already has a connection with Sam, which will be key

Maybe I missed it, but he never said the reason he was took the job, or the reason it appealed to him was because he played in Philly. He said he liked the young pieces. In the beginning he was sort of saying it's come full circle, he was drafted 35 years ago and signed his contract right around this time.

There's nothing not to like about that interview, and I'm glad that the two players he mentioned were Jrue and Iguodala, and he talked about their defense.

bebopdeluxe on May 21 at 22:53

Would you trade the #2 pick to the Nets for Courtney Lee and #3? You might have to throw a little more in there, but that would be the essence of the trade....

The way that Collins talked up Brand in the interview with Dei Lynam sure suggests to me that Favors is not on the board...so we might as well just stay at 2 and take Turner.

(a) I don't think we'd have to throw something else in there, I think they would.

(b) Yes, I'd do it. Of course, I'd take Favors at #2, so this is kind of a no-brainer for me. They'd have to take salary back to make it work under the cap, so I'd send Jason Smith.

bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on May 22 at 8:16

How about #2 and Lou for #3, Lee and Humphries (expires 2011)?

bebopdeluxe on May 21 at 23:51






teddygreen on May 22 at 7:14

Coaches who use the home town angle are really just a personal gripe that conjures up bad memories of inept Sixer coaches. It's also not really fair since we did have Mo Cheeks, who was a decent coach. But there is a lot to like about Doug Collins. Most notably is that he is a great communicator, and a guy who seems to appreciate his roster.

Just look at how media savvy the guy is. In just his first interview with the Philly media, Doug is already reaching out to players that were alienated by Eddie Jordan. He is letting them know that he will work them into his system. Elton Brand, Thad Young, Iggy, and Holiday must like what they hear. Finally to have a coach who is unlike Eddie Jordan, and will actually adapt to his player personnel.

Collins really understands the pattern of many successful coaches, which is be the polar opposite of the previous coach--can you say Tony Dileo. So hopefully we won't be seeing Eddie Jordan type of mind games, where players are called out in the press, and they are fitted against each other in practice.

Have any of you guys noticed any thing about nba drafts. The majority of the high picks in history, people
have passed on really good guards and try to get the big man with most amazing physical tools. My point being, Turner will be a star in this league. And I will be really disappointed if we trade the pick or select a big man. Especially in a big man heavy draft.

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