DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

Pressing Questions - 5/28

I think we should wait two years and draft Tanveer Bhullar as or C/PF when he comes out. He is going to be a beast.

Is he the better of the brothers?

Stan reply to Brian on May 28 at 0:52

I don't know. I think he's the older one. I'm just physced that there might be an Indian guy in the NBA someday.

Gee reply to Stan on May 28 at 11:33

Too bad he's ugly. He would be getting major Bollywood ass

How good will Elton be this year? Were last years struggles at least partly because he had barely played in two years/lack of motivation, or was it completely because his physical skills deteriorated

ryano reply to ojr107 on May 28 at 9:40

I think we can pencil Brand in for 14 pts, 8 reb, 1 blk, 1 stl, on 50% shooting. If you look at his averages last year he wasn't far off of that. As long as he can be serviceable on defense I don't see him being a deficiency on the court. He was at 13, 6, 1, 1, on 48% shooting this year with the worst coach in the NBA. I think Collins will make him much more efficient.

Expecting him to score close to 20 a game isn't fair with Iguodala, and hopefully Turner taking on the scoring load. A bounce back year from Thad and improvements to Speights and we could have a very well balanced attack.

I expect Brand to be much better in his 30-32 min a game simply because Eddie is gone and the expectations for his production have been lowered.

Brand needs to pick things up in two areas.

1. Pick-and-roll defense
2. Defensive rebounding

Honestly, I think both of these things are more about effort than athleticism. He was the best big they had two years ago at trapping the ballhandler on a p&r, using those freaky-long arms to swarm and trap. He can still do that, if Collins can get it out of him. Same with defensive rebounding. The blocks/steals will be there, he's fine on the offensive end.

I would hope that the rebounding could improve. But he never will be able to stay in front of stretch PF's.

My optimism with Brand (and I think the 14-16ppg is more than fair with Turner/Iggy/Jrue getting shots) is that he's another year removed from the Achilles and for his age, he does not have the same amount of miles as other guys due to all the missed time. I think he can be pretty valuable the next two years.

Good questions:
1) I am enjoying the hell out of PHX-LAL. I am rooting for PHX because I like Nash and Hill as people and they play beautiful hoops. I also like the fact that Gentry is doing a better job with this team than D'Antoni, who is a boiled ass. The little bench mob, with Enter The Dragon putting opposing guards on spin cycle & Dudley maxing out, is just icing on the cake. Tonight's game was the best of the post-season so far, Suns loss notwithstanding. Both teams play a pleasing brand of ball. Much better than BOS-CLE and some of the BOS-ORL series, especially the Rumble at the O-Rena.

2) I think Collins will push for a Dudley(given that he lives in PHX and his former disciple is the head coach, he is likely well aware what that type of player brings) & an Oakley/Ratliff type. He wants to increase the toughness and grit. Getting some skills with that would be a bonus, but those are the types he wants, imo. He might not be adverse to trying to get Sasha either, but he probably prefer a Dudley & an Oakley/Ratliff to reinforce the bench.

I'd actually say that if he got hired last year there is no way they make that Kapono-Evans deal, for just that reason.

3) I think Brand might get back to 70-75% of his prime. I am not expecting Vintage Brand, but 15-8 would be doable, especially if they pick Turner and group him with Iguodala & Jrue, three quality passers/creators who can get him the ball in comfortable spots consistently, especially once they get a feel for his game.

On that note, my question to the group is this:

If you are still Pro-Favors, would you agree that, in order to maximize such a player and become a contending team, Jrue Holiday would likely have to turn into a Nash/Payton type of player?

What I am referring to is a game like tonight's Game 5, where Nash is equally capable of creating for others or closing the deal himself. Even if you believe Favors become an Amare/Dwight blend, you still need a perimeter player capable of closing the game for you. And genuine closers are very hard to get via trade or FA. Most teams don't give them up easily(DAL is likely still kicking itself).

It is one of the reasons why I would pick Turner and build around the Jrue/ET/Dala axis. You can supplement those players with an athletic bruiser that can be acquired later, either as a mid-1st pick(like Perkins or Robin Lopez) or in FA or Trade(Like Ben Wallace).

I believe that Turner will become an efficient primary option, which enables Iguodala to become a versatile secondary option, Brand is the 3rd option & Jrue to be the QB who can be a 4th option. The dark horse is whether or not Collins can salvage Speights to become at least average defensively; if that happens, he takes Iguodala's place in the pecking order.

Add that group to a big who can control the boards and protect the basket & you could really have something.

I agree that this all effects Jrue a lot. Do you worry that having Turner and Iguodala will steer Jrue's development away from his potential. Sort of like how he was hurt by playing next to Collison at UCLA?

I wish I knew for sure how good Jrue could be, because he might develop some of those skills we love in Turner.

some guy reply to tk76 on May 28 at 10:58

i would argue that this wont affect jrue like the collison issue, because he would still be playing the point and have the ball in his hands. turner hasn't played with a true point guard since maybe his freshman year with jamar butler. i think part of the turnover problems turner was having this year is because he had been forced to play the point/forward while buford and diebler waited for drive and kick opportunities on the perimiter. i think turner could play off the ball and would benefit. he is a play maker, but i think jrue can still be our primary ball handler even with turner and iggys playmaking skils.

It is a concern, but if Collins still lets him QB the offense with the majority/Plurality of the ballhandling duties(something like 50(Jrue)-30(ET)-20(Dala) or even 40(Jrue)-30-30), then his development should not be stagnated. Solid examples of productive perimeter trios include Kidd-Carter-Jefferson & Arenas-Hughes-Jamison would be good models for how they could proceed.

charlie ace reply to tk76 on May 28 at 14:29

Good post. Nash is a closer, though nobody ever calls him one. His shooting last night was Goodrich-like.

The Suns-Lakers series has been great. Earlier in the playoffs, a Western Conference game, I think it was Denver-Utah, came on right after Boston-Miami and the contrast was striking - an immediate sense of speed and movement after watching the slogging, ball-pounding action in the Eastern game.

Doug will bring in somebody like that for sure; I guess there's a slim possibility it'll be Theo. Most likely, they'll buy a 2nd rounder, but that doesn't get you the experienced tough guy. Somebody like Craig Smith??

Brand will average 17 and 7.

Collins will give Speights minutes because he has talent, maybe some backing up Sam, who will get more minutes this year purely for team defense reasons.

I get the logic behind building the team around a perimeter trio and supplementing with defense-oriented bigs, my problem is that I think the better way to build a winner is with a dominant defensive big who can also score. I took what you wrote the other day about closers to heart and gave it some serious thought, but I'm still of the mind that the dominant big is not only more important, but more valuable.

I guess to put it simply, I'm less worried about who's going to take the last shot than I am about how we're going to get to that last shot. If Favors turns into what I think he will, he completely opens things up for the perimeter players, he's going to demand double teams and he's going to get teams into the penalty by drawing fouls, he's going to control the paint on both ends of the floor.

The things that put him over the top for me are the fact that he's a superior athlete, runs like a deer, and we have the PG who I believe can and will bring out the best in him on the offensive end.

If you think about a baseball team, you need to be strong up the middle on defense. Catcher, short stop, center field. Getting Favors gives us a potentially great on-the-ball defensive point in Jrue, an elite defensive wing in Iguodala and an elite shot-blocking center who's mobile enough to do everything you need him to do (P&R, weakside shot blocking, defending the post, running the floor).

I think it's easier to fill the other two spots on the floor when you've got that core than it is when all your strength is on the perimeter.

As for closing games, I wouldn't count Jrue out, but like I said, if we get to the point where Orlando is right now when Jrue's 25 and Favors is 24, we've got plenty of time (and cap space) to address that issue.

So do you think Turner and Favors end up being similar level players?

My hope is that Turner will be a superstar. I don't think Favors gets there.

I'm not sure what your definition of superstar is. Wade, Kobe, LeBron and probably Dwight Howard are the only guys I really consider superstars right now.

If you want to talk in numbers, I could see Turner scoring 22-25ppg, and possibly averaging 5 and 5 with efficient shooting numbers. That's certainly in the neighborhood of superstardom.

I could see Favors as a 20+/12/3 blocks guy. Is that a superstar?

Either one could be the best player on a contender, Jrue + Turner could be a dominant back court for a decade. Jrue + Favors could be a modern-day Stockton/Malone for a decade. I think the latter is more enticing than the former.

If they are equal then you take Favors (because of Big vs Small and fit/need.)

Contenders are comprised of superstars, complementary stars and role players. I believe Turner is a notch above Favors, mostly because of drive to dominate. But I'm far from certain. I worry about talented bigs who lack fire.

It's really, really close for me. If they were the same age, or if Turner hadn't had the injury, or if I was certain Turner could become a legit threat from three it would clearly be Turner. On the same note, if Favors had been in a better situation and produced more, there wouldn't be a second thought about taking him #2. As it stands, I'm with Favors.

If the Sixers take Favors I'll be happy with the pick. It would mean DiLeo was convinced that he will be a can't miss stud big.

I'd really only be upset if they trade down for salary relief- but that is unlikely.

Yeah, either Turner or Favors is a very good outcome. Cousins I'd be pissed about, and any kind of trade that wasn't just an absolute no-brainer would kill me.

That is one of my concerns, the desire to dominate. Turner, to me, is the type much more likely to take over the game by sheer force of will. Even if they are "equal", that provides a level of separation for me.

charlie ace reply to rswknight on May 28 at 14:35

I totally agree. He's like Pierce that way.

Precisely. And with his playmaking skills, he's also capable of bringing the group along with him

charlie ace reply to rswknight on May 28 at 18:15

And I don't want to miss out on Pierce again. That was major.

You make valid points, Brian.

I can easily admit that finding a Two-Way Impact Big is the easiest, simplest path toward building a contender. IMO, the reason is with that type of player, your team is virtually guaranteed to have an efficient hub as the centerpiece on offense while also being able to control the paint on defense, which are the keys to winning consistently.

Now, I have some reservations that Favors will actually reach that level. I'd agree that his absolute ceiling is maybe an Amare/Dwight hybrid, which would be a beast, but I think he is more likely to end up as a Horford/Josh Smith type.

Several scouts have indicated that he has issues with being overly passive at times, even during HS at times, and that those issues sort of showed up during the combine interviews. If he is going to be the dominant big we would need him to be, he would need more of an alpha personality type, imo.

On the flip side, you have Turner, who I believe is a tier above Favors as a prospect. I am not concerned about the back injury; given that he played the rest of the year w/o issues or repercussions and that the Sixers will doing a full workup, I have no concerns.

I have done a lot of thinking over the years about precisely why Jordan was an exception to the rule about needing a star big to win titles(Barry was another, BTW). I believe that the reason is because Jordan was a very efficient scorer. As an example, during the 1st title season, he was shooting .539 from the floor on 22 attempts, a mark that several bigs in this league struggle to reach.

IMO, Turner's floor is BRoy/Joe Johnson, but I think that his absolute ceiling is in the vicinity of MVP-Kobe, who was fairly similar to 2nd 3-peat Jordan in many ways. Both of them were the best players in the league w/o needing overwhelming athletic gifts, primarily using their skills and guile to excel despite diminished athleticism.

Turner is an alpha dog, a relentlessly tenacious fundamentally sound playmaking scorer with excellent body control, elite agility & stamina combined with very good size for his position. He embodies that toughness Collins was talking about.

The range issue is a non-issue for me; there is nothing about his form that would likely prevent him from becoming a viable three-point threat; he hit 40% from the college three during his soph year, dropped to 36% during his junior year, though multiple accounts have indicated that his percentage rose to 40% during the post-season tournaments.

IMO, you add a Prime Turner(likely putting up 25+-5-5-2-1 on good percentages) to a team with a Prime Jrue(likely 15+-8 with 2-3 spg), Late-Prime Iguodala with a defensive anchor, hopefully an athletic bruiser capable of a low double-double with around 3 bpg(call him Smart Sam), and you likely have a balanced team that can contend. The defensive bigs can control the paint while Turner becomes the efficient centerpiece of the offense who can also close the game w/o issues, especially in this era.

I believe that above team would be better than a Prime Favors(20-13-4) led squad, even if Holiday raised his numbers even higher to compensate, Late-Prime Dala still at his 17-5-5 levels & a stretch 4 and wing sniper as likely complements.

It's a good debate to have, I don't really disagree with you. I'm going to be happy w/ either guy

It is MUCH more fun than Aminu/Aldrich/Udoh. lol

The concern I have is that superstars tend to be either an elite athlete or a pure shooter.

Name a current or future HOF player who does not possess one of these qualities?

At the wing? or just on the perimeter?

Are we including guys who were not pure shooters with deep range from the moment they entered the league?

Or players who have had a superstar/elite-level impact while not actually being either an elite athlete or pure
shooter at that time?

I would actually argue that Turner is a pure mid-range shooter with very good size, elite agility, body control and stamina, but I will accept your premise and try to answer it.

On the perimeter, there is Magic(who was neither an elite athlete for his position nor pure shooter for most of his career, he became a better shooter over time though).

I'd consider Manu a potential HOF, who didn't shoot above league average from 3 until he was 27.

Pierce gets the label of "pure shooter" while actually shooting barely a tick above the league average from three for his career(a level I believe Turner can reach).

Kobe, for the last couple of years, is no longer an elite athlete, yet still performs at a consistently high level.

2nd 3-peat Jordan was a similar deal to MVP-Kobe.

Roy could be, if he improves defensively.

Good question though

Magic was a name that jumped to mind- but arguably he was a physical freak in terms of being a 6'8" big PG. How many players can be dominant at all 5 positions?

As for the MJ/Kobe being great past their athletic peak, I think their freak athleticism allowed them to take advantage of experience without ever becoming a below average athlete. Most players gain skill but fade athletically to where they are no longer able to take advantage of the experience advantage. While someone like MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Dr. J... are not at an athletic disadvantage later in their careers and can really take advantage of their vet experience.

That would be a good point.

Magic was more of a size & skill outlier, which is what enabled him to really dominate.

Though I don't believe Turner is a "below-average" athlete(except in terms of speed and explosiveness).

I've made the argument before that LeBron is the Wing version of Shaq(extreme outlier in terms of size & all-around athleticism enabling them to dominate while having sizable fundamental holes in their games).

You could argue that Turner is like Duncan, somebody with solid athleticism who can excel, even dominate, due to their competitive will, mastery of fundamentals and BBIQ.

Yeah. Turner and Duncan are also similar in that they were dominant college players who peopel somewhat sold short due to being so fundamentally solid and not so spectacular.

Exactly. Both are victims of the ESPN(Slams & Threes) era, though Turner's game probably has more aesthetic appeal.

charlie ace reply to Brian on May 28 at 18:07

Great points Brian. You're thinking long term. Getting a closer before laying a defensive foundation is putting the cart before the horse. But that's what the Bulls did.

In the meantime, if you take Turner you have Sam as the defensive anchor, and that ain't bad.

I'm so effing happy that we can't screw this up.

Danny J on May 28 at 2:41

Umm I hope he doesn't bring in someone like Vujacic, but I like the mindset of bringing in tough guys who can shoot off the bench. To be honest, I wouldnt mind Sammy as our future center. Compared to the other postions (namely PF and SG) that is not a need that I think we need to address immediately.

1. Phoenix Lakers has been awesome. I feel bad for the Suns because winning a Game 7 in LA is going to be tough. I think they will win the next game though. The thing that I loved about tonight's game was Nash. You could see at the end of that game that he was going to CARRY his team to the finals if he could. He probably got away with about three walks in the last 4 minutes, but his shotmaking was unbelievable. I love the way the Suns run with their bench. Gentry will leave all of those guys (except Dragic, who is subbed for by Nash) until there is three minutes left in the game if they are going good. I'm befuddled that Lou Amundson can be a valuable contributor though. Always appreciated his hustle, but I still don't think he can play. He's in the right spot.

2. I'm sure Collins would make a push to bring that kind of guy in, but we need names here. I'm pretty sure they won't be able to get Dudley and I don't want Vujacic. I think the Lakers guards stink and their deficiencies are masked by Kobe and their front line. I don't think that there are many players that meet the 'pesky defense and three point shooting' criteria. Only names that I can think of are guys like Rasual Butler and Delonte West, but IMO Dudley is a pretty unique player. Sadly in today's NBA you probably have to pick your poison (3's or D) with guys on the bench. You can have JR Smith or you can have Tony Allen. It's not always that simple, but its the rule more often than not.

3. The scoring could get there, but boy, I don't know about his rebounding. Maybe like 17-7. I would sign up for a 15-8 right now in a heartbeat.

You can get the Dudley's of the league in the late first or 2nd round of the draft. I think we've ignored this approach the last couple years(finances?) since the Willie/KK draft. Who in this draft could develop into that player?

Dudley is an example of a very good college player who I don't think was known as a 3pt shooter but shot the ball well. Turner, to me, fits is an eevn better player/scorer in college who will also develop his 3 pt. shot. I'm not concerned whatsoever about Turner's 3 pt. shooting in the NBA.

deepsixersuede reply to sfw on May 28 at 7:43

I think the nets are dead wrong, the sooner he and Lopez adapt to each other the better. He will step right in and get 10 and 8 minumum.

The more I watch Orlando the more I like Redick and feel a guard trio of Turner, Jrue and Redick gives us a mix of shooting, toughness and smarts.

I am more concerned with getting a young, possible Sam replacement than a physical bench big because I feel if Elton doesn!t show improvement , he may become that guy. Use our resources to draft a young center late and let Doug scour the undrafted and minumum salary guys for his D.Reid.R.Hendrix is still overseas and Dorsey, though a knucklehead, could work in that role.

deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on May 28 at 7:50

By the way, if Minn. drafts Cousins, we should inquire about the rights they own for Pekovic, a solid low post center that doesn!t seem to fit with Jefferson or Cousins. Derek, is he worth going after and would he come over?

It would be silly for the Nets to draft Cousins and then sign a guy like Bosh or Amare. They may as well get something of value for the #3 pick if that's their plan. IMO Lopez and Favors would complement each other nicely in the front court.

Should read "draft Favors..."

Agreed. That is a dumbass move. Favors/Lopez should be a pro version of Stanford's Lopez/Lopez, a scoring big complemented by a defensive big.

If the Sixers picked Favors, they'd be hoping that Speights could be the scorer until Favors might be ready to take a bigger role.

I only care about Brand's "ceiling" with regards to defense and rebounding. He actually impressed me with his post scoring last year, but I never thought he would rebound so poorly given his length, low center of gravity and effort.

If the Sixers want Favors, don't they have to at the least get NJ's 27th or 31st(1st pick in 2nd rnd) pick in the draft to ensure the Nets that they will get Turner.

If they really want Favors, they absolutely have to play the Nets off the Timberwolves to get something else out of this pick. Ultimately, I wouldn't drop down below three until draft night, and only then if somehow the Nets didn't take Favors, but you can absolutely shop the pick between the two teams and use Minny as leverage in negotiating with the Nets.

1. Even though I was rooting for the suns last night's game was still entertaining as hell. I hope the Suns can rebound from that tough loss and force a game 7 monday night.

2. I think a Dudley type player would be perfect for the sixers coming off the bench. If you remember the sixers traded away 2 of these types in Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen during the brown era. I also would like the sixers to grab one of those undersized PF's who come off the bench and bring energy and rebound. I am thinking like Landry, Milsap, Gomes, and Blair. They're usually found in the late 1st/early 2nd.

3. Right now all I really want out of Brand is for him to be a good defender, especially off the pick and roll. Rebounding would be a plus. Any scoring he could provide would be gravy at this point.

Tom M reply to Chodeburger on May 28 at 15:39

2. Patterson from Kentucky??

He's projected to go in the lottery, but could fit the bill.

Tom M reply to Brian on May 28 at 17:39

I think he will fall, just because it was my idea that we should pick him.

Myleskong on May 28 at 9:44

I think Collins will try to make current players on our roster in to the Vujajic/Dudley types. The 2 that come to mind are Carney and Meeks. Meeks is not a good defender but he gave effort and with some guidance he can atleast be pesky using his build to annoy opposing players. I thought this was always the ideal role for Carney.

As for Brand, I don't know if I can give a stat line for the year. I think he can be really effective offensively in certain match up but really bad in others. I think Brand is gonna be called on the be that vet big that brings toughness and is also that stabilizing veteran presence that'll so the game down when things are getting a little out of control. If I had to throw stats around I'd say 15 and 6 with 1.5 blks in about 30 minutes. He gonna be the guy to lay the wood on the opposing player killing us around the rim, he'll hedge on d to help force turnovers is trapping situations, he'll set hard picks and screens. He may not get many rebounds but I see him boxing out his man so another Sixer can get the board.

Have we reached the point in the NBA that there are enough stretch 4's where an Elton Brand cannot be your starting center?

Positions evolve in the NBA. And I think we are reaching the tipping point where your starting PF must be able to guard players with SF quickness. That is not saying you need to go small, but you do need quickness at that position.

I'll write a post on this, but I think the stretch four thing is a fad, and not a terrible effective one except in rare circumstances.

Yeah, I don't want them to go small (esp not Thad at PF.) But I worry about a big PF guarding all of the perimeter scorers there are at that position. Some big PF's can cover quicker players (KG is a classic example.)

I guess it depends on the coaching and defensive scheme. Duncan is not the fastest guy, but he does well defensively. Has anyone watched how the Spurs play against teams with stretch 4's? Do they struggle?

ojr107 reply to tk76 on May 28 at 11:05

the problem with Elton/this team is does he still have enough left to punish a stretch 4 like Rashard Lewis, or will it just be a mismatch on one side of the floor.

Yes, he does. The problem is that playing next to Sam, if EB gets going in the post, the other team can switch their better post defender onto Brand without really worrying about Sam taking advantage of the size mismatch in a traditional way. He usually makes them pay for it with offensive boards, though.

How many legit Stretch 4s are there in the L? With legit 3-point range(which is what makes the stretch potent, imo)?

Lewis, Dirk, Odom, Jeff Green? And like Brian said, it only really succeeds for a few.

I'm not advocating the Sixers go with a stretch 4. I just worry that Brand can't guard those players.

Oh I know. What I was saying is that those 4 are the only ones you really need to be concerned with, and none of the 4(with the likely exception of Odom, maybe Dirk) can actually guard Brand on the post.

You can exploit them as much as they can exploit you. Another important factor is only Dirk is a focal point. The rest of them get theirs well after their team's primary options. So that player becomes a bit of a low-level threat, primarily worrisome because they open things up for the greater problem

Court_visioN reply to rswknight on May 28 at 17:55

rashard lewis, antawn jamison?

Court_visioN reply to rswknight on May 28 at 18:01

gotta add troy murphy to that list too.
al harrington
yi jianlian (lol)
boris diaw
shawn marion (has played that role before)
kevin love (sorta?)
okur (more of a stretch center though)

point being, there are a lot more than i expected.

Which helps my point. No real "difference makers", they all are simply complementary players that either operate in the shadow of much better players or are miscast on a mediocre team. I agree with Phil Jackson; make them match your size, never play the opponents game

Court_visioN reply to rswknight on May 29 at 1:29

every coach should try to dictate the other team's roster. it's stupid logic to say "oh Los Angeles has 3 seven footers we gotta put every big man we got on the floor so we can match up." You play your best cards and may the better team win.

I think stretch 4's will eventually settle into a first-big-man-off-the-bench-to-change-pace role.

I'd agree, but you get mediocre coaches like Braces-Face, who believe in going small if the opponent is small. Sometimes the obvious must be stated

I can see Meeks, maybe. I don't think Carney really has it in him. He seems like he'll always be a finesse guy to me. He's also not on the roster. He's an unrestricted free agent, not sure if he'll be back.

Myleskong reply to Brian on May 28 at 10:36

Carney, finesse? Hmmm, I never seen him as a finesse player. (Memories of the dunk on Dwayne Wade come to mind)
I recall watching preseason games his rookie season, when I had delusions of grandeur about his upside. His pesky defense on Grant Hill won the game. And the year before he was traded to Minny, he was part of the comeback core that disrupted the passing lanes and got out in transition to overcome many a late double digit deficit.
If finesse is the opposite of being tough than I guess I can see where you're coming from because I surely wouldn't describe him as "tough." Though, I think he definitely fits the mold of "pesky defender that can knock down a 3."

I don't think he has a good enough feel for the game to be a great defender. Guys like Bowen aren't just physical. they get in guys heads and can think the game on defense. Where Carney relies on his athleticism.

But I could be wrong. i do think Carney puts in the effort and has the raw talent to be a defender/3pt specialist.

Myleskong reply to tk76 on May 28 at 10:48

Vujajic and Dudley are no Bruce Bowens by any stretch.
Carney becoming tougher on the ball is something that can be learned and coached up, especially if that's how he can see the floor.
Collins says he wants competition in practice and that's how guys will see the floor. I think it's very plausible for Carney to improve this aspect of his game and return next season. If anyone can communicate and help Carney gather a better understanding of the game, it's Collins.
It's gonna be great to see players receiving actual in-game coaching when they come off the floor next season.

Zach Attack on May 28 at 10:44

Just for fun, which lineup would your rather have?


SG-Redick (if you can sign him.)

I'm sorry but I would go with B.

Myleskong reply to Zach Attack on May 28 at 10:54

B with a slight adjustment.


Zach Attack reply to Myleskong on May 28 at 11:01

Yeah no more dribble dribble fade away crap. Hopefully, Thad and Dre could spread the floor and become spot up shooters. Give Holiday the ball most of the time and let him operate.

B. I actually wrote a post on this which will be published in a week or so when I'm on vacation.

1. I'm really enjoying this series, but it's a shame that Nash will never win a championship

2. I would really like to see the Sixers sign Hakim Warrick, C.J Watson, Drew Gooden or Kyle Korver. Hopefully a Green and Kapono's expriring contracts can help

3. If Queen Latifah can work her magic, then I think he can be a 17-8 guy at best, but a 15-6 guy guy is mor likely. One other thought, Brand did average 14-6 last year despite not touching the ball as much (dribble hand offs at 30ft from the basket don't count)

just while were throwing some names out there...

eddie house played decent defense on that boston team and can knock down a three.

and craig smith is available. hes one of those effort bruiser slightly undersized 4s people seem to be looking for.

both are free agents and could be available for relatively cheap.

They're both offensive players, I like them somewhat, but they aren't really what I think we need to add to our bench, which is full of offensive players who don't really play d.

Here's a (fairly) young PF that could probably be had for the minimum: James Singleton. Played for DAL/WAS last year. Tough, physical guy who played in Europe for some time. I think he'd be a nice end of the bench addition.

eNews: exclusive Evan Turner interview, win a chance to meet the Sixers' draft pick!" was the subject of the latest Sixer email.

Heh. I wonder if they meant for the two to be unrelated.

Turner interview:

Q: Talk about your knowledge of the Sixers personnel.

A: They have [Andre] Iguodala, Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young, Louis Williams, Samuel Dalembert. I think I could fit on the wing sometimes and if they need me to I could bring the ball up. They have a lot of good, young players and I think I could fit in. They played hard last year and I would just try to come in, fit in and compete.

...What about Mr. Brand :)

They played hard last year?

That's like saying she has a nice smile and a good personality.

PolishPower on May 28 at 15:57

Just took a peak at the players of the mock drafts for 2011 (Draftexpress). And now I know why the Sixers are looking to pick up a project center now.

There are 4 centers projected in the 1st round, and none look to be gritty defensive players.

This year there is a very large number of possible centers in the mid to late round 1st round picks.

My list of possible project centers?
Cole Aldrich
Tiago Splitter (if the sixers are willing to spend the money to bring him over, I think they could get his draft rights from the Spurs)
Larry Sanders (only if he uses Mareese's diet)
Kevin Seraphin

PolishPower on May 28 at 17:29

I really think the Sixers should be taking Evan Turner.
But, the last month of Derrick Favors college career (from 2/26 to 3/21)
Ppg : 15.6
Rpg : 9.1
Apg : 1.2
Bpg : 2.3
Topg : 3.3
Fpg : 2.5
FG% : 64%
FT% : 69%

Those are impressive numbers.
Of course, Georgia Tech was knocked out of the tournament by Ohio State :)

johnrosz on May 28 at 17:47

Every time i watched GT play this year, Favors was very turnover prone. His hands were questionable, not sure if that's something that he can improve but it was a pretty glaring deficiency from what I saw. He looked so raw whenever he had the ball down low.

Why do we always assume that a kid that has offensive deficiencies will just "put it all together" I just don't get taking a guy based on potential with the number 2 overall pick...

deepsixersuede reply to johnrosz on May 28 at 18:23

Brian, earlier I was disagreeing with the Nets not starting Favors right away, not disagreeing with them drafting him, I love his talent. John, on Libertyballers in the comment section under Favors over Turner there is a good youtube clip of Favors from this year at Tech; it really shows a lot of good footage against doubleteams and shows a variety of moves. Brian should post it here to help his argument. He will not be a bust, I would bet my house on it.

AaronMcKie4MVP reply to deepsixersuede on May 28 at 19:00

you might as well bet your house. you are betting the next 5 years of sixer livlihood on it.

johnrosz reply to deepsixersuede on May 28 at 20:00

I'm weary of mix tapes...The Sixers released a 2009-2010 mix of Elton Brand highlights that made him look like a legitimate starting power forward...

Maybe he won't be a bust, but I'd say he's far more likely to be a bust than Turner.

You probably read my posting of the Favors' YouTube link. Here is that one and some others.



The point I was trying to make with the first link is not that Favors is a polished offensive player - you can see that he really only uses his right hand so far, and he doesn't have the kind of quick spin moves using his feet that Cousins has already mastered. My point was that people wonder why his production wasn't higher at GTech, even beyond pointing out how the upperclassmen Gawal was still the #1 low post option and the GTech offense was not too smooth, and the first vid gives a sense of just how clogged the lane was. Just count the defenders standing close on some of those baskets! Playing against zones on a team with poor ball movement and lack of outside shooting threats is usually not much fun. Favors did shoot over 60% FG for the season.

Some people say Favors is not as good an athlete as Amare, but I don't particularly agree, though they are different athletes. In dunks video shows Favors at McDonald's HS All Star game doing the same between the legs dunk that Amare was doing as a HS senior and Favors has an easier time with it. Here is a comparison of their combine measurements:

Height w/o Shoes:
Favors - 6' 8.75"
Amare - 6'8.5"

Height w/ Shoes:
Favors: 6'10.25"
Amare: 6' 10"

Favors: 245
Amare: 233

Favors: 7' 4"
Amare: 7' 1"

Favors 9' 2"
Amare: 9' 0.5"

No Step Vert:
Favors: 31.5
Amare: 32

No Step Vert Reach:
Favors: 11' 9.5"
Amare: 11' 8.5"

Max Vert:
Favors: 35.5
Amare: 35.5

Max Vert Reach:
Favors: 12' 1.5"
Amare: 12' 0"

Bench Rep:
Favors - 14
Amare - 12

Favors: 11.74
Amare: 11.19

Favors: 3.25
Amare: 3.25


So it's only in the agility drill that Amare is better, while Favors is longer and broader, and basically ties in jumping and running. Amare does have quicker feet, while Favors is probably already be a better shot blocker than Amare is after many years as a pro - that must be linked to some kind of athletic category - call it "timing". One also gets a sense from the comparison of Favors' HS and college videos that he focused on bulking up while at GTech so that may have dampened his agility and explosiveness to a degree.

AaronMcKie4MVP on May 28 at 17:57

i just think there is too much risk with favors. turner seems to be safer w/o the potetnial to be a bust. a lot of these uber-athletic guys turn out to be busts (stromile swift, tyrese thomas). i know favors isnt a jumpshooter but his 5-20 on the seaon scares me. 5-20 is horrific and tells me the guy might not have bball coordination. he is very raw. we are banking on him being able to develop on offensive game, that scares me. a lot of upside , sure. but a ton of downside. we are a desparate team,. if this pick doesnt hit the mark, we are f----ed for a long time. this is a big chance we are taking

Draft express:
"Offensively, Favors is fairly limited as a shot-creator in the half-court, showing raw footwork and little in the ways of a go-to move, struggling to finish with his left hand and being fairly turnover prone when forced to put the ball on the floor. "

"As a jump-shooter Favors has been incredibly streaky over the course of the year—knocking down just 5/20 attempts according to Synergy Sports Technology,"

The Greek reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on May 28 at 19:38

The simple thing to do is just take the guy that dominated in college in Turner. The dude is a half court stud, and that's what it takes to win during the playoffs. Just draft the guy and then worry about finding Sammy dumbo's replacement later.

deepsixersuede reply to The Greek on May 28 at 21:58

I think Turner is their pick, but my point is all this bust talk makes no sense. He had a better freshman year than Turner by far and some publications had him higher than Wall out of high school. And something not being talked about is him NEXT to Sammy, that could be incredible defensively and with Jrue and Iggy here the scorer we add could sit in a lounge chair till we get the ball back.

+1, if i had to pick one of the two to build a team around i'd pick Jrue/Igoudala/Favors over Jrue/Turner/Iguodala.

AaronMcKie4MVP reply to deepsixersuede on May 29 at 7:54

"but my point is all this bust talk makes no sense"

what do you mean? so Favors is a cant miss star? everyone says the guy is 'raw' by definition that is bust potential. the sixers arent a franchise in position to take such a risk.

Honestly I dont want any part of Favors. Turner seems like a perfect fit and the least riskiest pick.
Maybe favors turns out to be Amare, but I think its more liely he will be Kwame brown. I feel worst case scenario for Evan Turner is maybe...Shawn Marion with scoring.
His upside could be Brandon Roy with better D or a Paul Pierce type. Or perhaps a poor mans Kobe.(who could still be better than 95% of the league.)
Keep it simple stupid---draft Turner.

bill reply to Gdog on May 29 at 10:40

I agree. Finding an "adequate #2 is much easier than a dominant 4 or 5. Would you start a baseball team with a DH. No you get a shortstop, center fielder and a catcher with some pitching. We have Meeks, Williams and Green (still? thank you Billy King!) who can fill in at the 2. Plus Brand can tutor Favors for a year and then we only have Brand, Favors and Speights to rotate the 4/5. The problem with Brand is that he's overpaid, not that he can't play 25 minutes a night. Ed screwed up so why dump him now when his trade value is at a low point. Next year can just be about maturity for Jrue and Favors, figuring out if Meeks or Williams can play the 2, figuring out what to do with Thad (I'd trade him and keep Iggy), elevating Brand so that we can trade him and waiting for 2011-2012 when we have some salary room. Thereafter we can take shots at some 2 and 5 in the draft from the 15-20 position and maybe get lucky. You'll never get lucky from the 15-20 position with a player like Favors for he'll be gone by 10.

Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment