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Ugh, Let's Go Lakers

Unbelievably interesting game tonight. Lakers have shown the propensity to close out series with big road wins recently. Last year they got Denver and Orlando in close out games. This year they got OKC and Utah with OKC being the big parallel to this one. The Suns are mentally stronger than the Thunder so the Lakers will have to earn this one. Suns have been on a roll at home since Andre Miller did a number on them in the first game of the playoffs.

I see it one of two ways. A Suns win to reassert themselves in semi-close fashion. The other scenario is a disheartened Suns team coming out deflated from Ron Artest making Sager say Queensbridge and getting blown out. I'm not betting against Nash in this one though.

I'm hoping for a statement game by the Suns. I'm also hoping for game 7 when Kobe tries to show everyone just how great he is and Pau gets about 8 FGA in a home loss.

If the Suns don't win everyone should be cheering for the Celtics because Rondo is hilarious.

Who just randomly tells Chris Paul he will never win anything? In the most angry/hilarious way possible.

The team does need Doug back for the workouts, but as a NBA fan, I am hoping the Suns take the last 2 so Nash & Hill can beat the Celtics playing beautiful hoops. Either way, Collins will be back after the weekend, so no big deal.

On another note, if the Suns fall, I'm definitely pulling for Kobe and the Lakers. I cannot STAND Boston; the players(with the exception of Ray-Ray Shuttlesworth) act like wanna-be tough guys, they play boring, fugly basketball(BOS-CLE was like eating bad takeout, had to watch old games to get the taste out).

Plus, ESPN fellates them whenever they do anything remotely meaningful.

Magic Johnson called Rondo the best "all-around" PG in the L, meanwhile his old team was getting cooked by a PG who is still better in Nash. I was watching the game tonight & I was forced to listen to Mark Jackson praising Rondo for taking and making a 3, when he shoots like 21%! Since when is a 21% three-point shooter taking a step-back off the dribble a good shot?

Plus, I cannot stand Bill Simmons. He is a sanctimonious prig who is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is.

Did you hear Jackson say he thought the three Artest took the night before was a good shot? No GM in the league is dumb enough to hire that guy to coach.

LOL. I'm surprised he didn't say it was because of "Hand DOWN, MAN DOWN!"

Charlie reply to rswknight on May 29 at 9:17

Good post as usual rw, but I have to say Pierce is tough. I saw him hit the floor face first once and stay in the game. He survived being stabbed multiple times. He's a tough defender and never gets rattled. Rondo (who got faced down in the playoffs last year by Kirk Hinrich, who is a tough guy), KG, Perkins, Big Baby, yeah, not so tough.

Jackson's comments are usually ridiculous, but his praise of Rondo is mostly justified. He has been the best player on the floor for long stretches. The Celtics always provoke hyperbole from the media, it goes back to the 70s with Musburger & Heinsohn. Dick Stockton is a Celtics fan who will never say anything negative about them. No one has ever said that Larry Bird was anything less than a perfect player - it's taboo. McHale is "the greatest low-post player of all time." (Wilt who?) Bill Russell is the greatest winner of all time. (Easy to back up, but what about those other guys? Would he have won with Guy Rodgers, Al Attles & Tom Meschery?) But that's what happens when you win a lot.

One of my problems with Pierce is the similar to one of my issues with LeBron: I HATE OFFENSIVE FLOPPING. Defensive flopping is barely tolerable as it is, but when so much of your game is caught up on gaming officials to react to non-existent contact, its just so BS.

I feel you on the Celtics love. I have no problems with praising Rondo for his floor game, he is seeing the floor very well and playing the angles at a high level. That said, dude ain't flawless. There is no need to manufacture praise for taking a bad shot and hitting it.

I have to hear Simmons constantly refer to Bird as Basketball Jesus, any of his basketball arguments that are related to Philly are compromised by his unhidden bias. As a recent example, he essentially used LeBron's Work Stoppage(due to Delonte pulling a Stifler's mom or not, lol) as a way to "lower" LeBron by saying he was no longer MJ + Magic w/Bo Jackson DNA, but instead he was Doc with Bo Jackson DNA. Because Doc lacked "killer instinct" and was "inferior." In the same way that Wilt was "inferior". Nonsense. IMO, Doc was negatively impacted due to the classical conservative strain that was running in the NBA. He was a jazz musician somewhat stuck in a orchestra and trying to make due. As great as he was with the Sixers, he wasn't the beast he was in the ABA, where he was able to just flow & go. If NBA Doc were playing today, he'd be All-NBA. If ABA Doc walked into the league today, he'd be practically illegal.

Besides, LeBron is Wing-Shaq, period. Right down to the constant need for attention and the use of overwhelming physical gifts to mask holes in his game.

One definite positive to Tim Duncan's stellar career is it virtually ended any convo about McHale for greatest PF of all time.

That said, I have almost no issue with virtually any praise toward Russell. IMO, Jordan is the best perimeter player ever, Wilt is the best post player ever and Russ is the best winner/leader.

Rich reply to rswknight on May 29 at 16:10

Pierce is an offensive flopper, that's certainly a legit criticism from a basketball purist standpoint. Still, I think he may be the smartest offensive player in the NBA. That dude knows how to draw contact better than anyone, and even though his athleticism is shot, he still gets to the rim and finishes strong. He might be number one in the league in hitting "dagger threes" (push your team to a 2 or 3 possession game) if such a category existed. The biggest complement I can give Pierce is that guys don't enjoy guarding him and he always makes them anxious.

My biggest problem with Simmons is that the 82-83 Sixers were an overrated team. I think it's because the Celtics lost to the Bucks that year and they weren't given a 'true' test. That's why I hate my Yankee friends knocking down the 08 WS a notch. Even though the Rays were a better team and beat them AND the Sox all year, the championship is taken down a notch. Hey, it's not the Phils' fault they took care of business against the Rays. I wasn't alive then, but the 76ers would have beaten the Celtics easy that year.

Plus, I sincerely doubt they will be running any workouts until after the holiday anyway. They have precisely 4 player to possibly workout for their draft position. That is easily arranged, and unlike previous years, there is no concern about recruits ducking invites.

Any other prospects brought in should be either trade possibilities, potential undrafteds, and possible 2nd-rounders.

Interesting article on Collins meeting with Iguodala:


Love that he arranged it, love the things he said to Dre. I also like that he is setting up a mini-camp of sorts for 6/21. This is off to a great start

That's really a great, great sign. Reading that has to bring a smile even to the most fatalistic Sixers fan's face.

Are you talking to me?

Absolutely. I was really hoping that him & Iguodala would quickly get on the same page. I was a little worried after his public critiques(which were accurate) w/o addressing the issues to the player directly first, but this was well-handled.

I loved the "still scratching the surface" comment. It reminds people that he still hasn't reached his ceiling quite yet.

Plus the minicamp in June? Fabulous!

Chuck Norris reply to rswknight on May 29 at 8:50

LOL, on the comments!! This is why I hate listening to any Philly sports radio and Philly fans period!! I'm a die hard fan too, but this is sort of why athletes do not want to play here because of these morons!!

Exactly. I try to avoid the comments(too much idiocy is bad for the blood pressure...lol). Regarding SportsRadio, I only hit the occasional podcast for interviews with Sixers personnel, though I still have to hold my nose during most of the "insightful" questions being asked, just to hear the answers.

teddygreen on May 29 at 5:00
teddygreen on May 29 at 6:51

At least we're not the Raptors as their big free agent acquisition wants out of t-dot....


i predict that Hedo gets traded to the Wizards who desperatley want to unload Arenas before he can corupt young John Wall...


Trade of bad contracts...

I saw that. Died laughing. CheesyPizza wants out! LOL, that was fantastic.

As much as I would love Collins to be in Philly working with the young guys, I can never ever root for Kobe. The man is a symbol of all that is evil and unjust in the world. Your picture captures him perfectly. Go Los Suns! Now that the adults are in charge at the Sixers again, our time will come.

I want the Celtics to lose and I believe the best team to do that will be the Lakers. I just can't stan all of their celebrations and trash talking. I hate it when they still cheer when they extend a 20 point lead into a 22 pt lead. I hate it when they act like underdogs and say that no one believes in them.

I could never root for the Lakers and that fraud Kobe Bryant. I really hope the Suns take this series. Ever since Game 3 I have been pretty impressed with their D. Even Stoudemire looked interested in playing some D at times the past 4 games.

I prefer Boston to Lakers.I just want Kobe to crash and burn.He is the most disgusting player in the history of NBA.

Go Suns.

It would be great for the NBA to have a high powered offensive team (that defends) win a title. The ugly 90's teams sucesses set back the league immeasurably.

And that is the other reason I want the Suns to win. Copycat league and all, a Suns title might eventually get the league to turn into the 80's with more sophisticated D.

Of course, my main reason I want the Suns to win being that Nash and Hill practically embody what I adore about hoops as a sport.

I don't like Kobe, but the Lakers are definitely the lesser of two evils for me when they play the Celtics. My hatred of the Celtics is deep-rooted, going back to the early 80's when the Celtics and Sixers had the best rivalry in all of sports. 1982's Game 7 win by the Sixers in Boston remains one of my all-time favorite sports memories.

The current Celtics are more in-your-face with their trash-talking than their 80's counterparts, and I dislike them as much as I dislike any current sports team (except maybe the Patriots), but it's hard to imagine feeling as intensely as I did back then (I was younger, and times were simpler), when I would often root for the teams that had the best chance of eliminating the Celtics (the Lakers and eventually the Pistons). It'll be much the same way in the Finals, I think -- the enemy of my enemy is my friend (or, I root for the Sixers and whoever is playing the Celtics).

Re: Bill Simmons, I usually enjoy his writing and podcasts, and I appreciate his being one of the few national writers who truly loves the NBA, but his work always comes with the caveat, if you can get past his insane Boston bias (Brian's words, I think). Simmons' gigantic "Book of Basketball" had lots of interesting anecdotes, but he took every opportunity to bash the Sixers (66-67 and 82-83 were overrated, Russell was twice the player Wilt was, Dr. J didn't deserve the 80-81 MVP, etc.) and, of course, praise the Celtics. Simmons was funnier and more tolerable when his teams were doing badly, but he's mostly obnoxious now when talking about his teams.

Rich reply to Statman on May 29 at 13:53

I feel the same way about the Celtics. 2 years ago I wasn't distraught over those three guys getting a title because I felt like they deserved it, but most of the guys didn't register as true Celtics yet, Pierce being the exception.

I don't understand how you can root for these Celtics as an NBA fan now though. I think in the course of two years KG turned from a hard-nosed, a little over-the-top player to the biggest, most intolerable guy in the league. How was he mad about that 2nd foul on Howard, because Howard had a hand on him to feel where he was going? Give me a break, that's the most hypocritical thing I've ever seen, he won a championship because the refs allowed his team to play super-physical with the Lakers.

I actually have a lot of respect for Ray Allen. I love his game and demeanor, but he's the only one. Guys like Big Baby (a fitting name) and Perkins complain about every call. How can Perkins (the 5th starter on a team who has won pretty comfortably in 5,6, and 6 games) have 6 T's already? That's absurd. I have a begrudging respect for Pierce because I think the guy is one of the smartest offensive players I have ever seen. Still he's a flopper and as a lifetime Celtic, I can't root for him!

100% agree with everything you said, hit the nail right on the head as usual Statman. I can root for the Lakers much easier than I can for the C's. I'd much rather see Kobe raising that trophy over Pierce and Faux-Tough KG.

I remember that article he wrote which so perfectly summed up what is so very wrong with him and most Boston fans. He actually tried to argue that because Boston has been so successful over the years, it makes the down years so much "worse" then teams & cities going through prolonged starvation. It was a new millenium Sports fan version of "Let Them eat Cake".

Go Suns Go!!!

meen Brian where did you get that ugly picture. It looks like something out of a bad 70s show. like an bootlegged Shaft. uggh

Los Suns all the way. they not only deserve to win but at least it will dispel the notion that you cant win unless you pack your team with superstars like the 90s Cowboys equivalent Lakers team or you get to bully other teams with your so-called 'physical' play like the Celtics (i seriously dunno why the refs allow them to play like that). i want to watch some beautiful ball. game 6 will be the hardest game to win for Nash and co., if they can do it, I think they have a very good chance in LA. Karma needs to catch up on these b*****

Andre Iguodala really needs someone to have his back. Dude is so paranoid about love from the fans. On and off the court; its like a neglected kid desperately seeking attention from its father.
safe to say philly is a tough place for hoops.
at least he's not an Eagle....

Steven reply to jkay on May 29 at 16:17

Sometimes I think that my fellow philly fans are stupid. They may be the most most passionate fan base but they are nowhere close to being one of the smartest fan base. If Iguodala didnt play defense, and averaged 26pts, 1asst, 2 rbs per game people in philly would consider him to be a franshise player.

Hedo and bosh S

tk76 reply to tk76 on May 29 at 18:02

sign and trade for brand and Iguodala.

Stefon reply to tk76 on May 29 at 18:55

Why would Toronto do that? They would have to take 50 million of Brand instead of 40 million of Hedo. All they get is one less year of a bad contract. They already have money invested in Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani. How would Toronto be able to improve the limited cap space and mid draft picks the get from this trade? If they let Bosh go for nothing they would at least have 15mill to spend and high draft picks for the next 3 years

C: Bargnani
PF: Brand
SF: Igoudala
SG: DeRozan
PG: Calderon

C: Dalembert
PF: Bosh
SF: Hedo
SG: Turner
PG: Holliday

teddygreen on May 29 at 18:47

The Real Cost of Elton Brand
by shrink on May 28, 2010 4:48 PM CDT 68 comments

In an interview on KFAN Tuesday (here's the podcast), Wolves GM David Kahn was asked about a rumor from ESPN's Chad Ford that Philadelphia may trade the #2 if they can unload the $51 million/ 3 year contract of Elton Brand. While Kahn can't comment directly on other teams' players without risking fines for tampering, he said this:

David Kahn: If you look at what Brand makes, there's really only one match, salary-wise, so I'm not so certain that it means more money, but I think its a difference in talent and longevity. All this stuff gets factored in, along with what other opportunities do you have.
We all have a subjective idea that Elton Brand is overpaid, but how can we quantify it, to get a better idea is a trade for Brand and Evan Turner would be worthwhile?

Let's take a look at some of the factors that may go into David Kahn's decision.

1. Let's make a direct comparison between "the one salary match," and compare money, talent, and longevity:

2009-10 Elton Brand (age 31) $15 mil ... 13 PPG, 6 RPG
2010-11 Elton Brand (age 32) $16 mil ... ??? PPG, ??? RPG
2011-12 Elton Brand (age 33) $17 mil ... ??? PPG, ??? RPG
2012-13 Elton Brand (age 34) $18 mil ... ??? PPG, ??? RPG

2009-10 Al Jefferson (age 25) $12 mil ... 17 PPG, 9 RPG
2010-11 Al Jefferson (age 26) $13 mil ... ??? PPG, ??? RPG
2011-12 Al Jefferson (age 27) $14 mil ... ??? PPG, ??? RPG
2012-13 Al Jefferson (age 28) $15 mil ... ??? PPG, ??? RPG
I think its pretty obvious that Al Jefferson is superior in all three facets, and his value for the next three years is far higher than Elton Brand. Jefferson's upside is far greater, and his trade value will likely increase.

2. What can we expect from Elton Brand? With his age, size, and injury history, I think his most likely role is "veteran big man off the bench," a la an Antonio McDyess. Brand has some upside in his production, but he carries far more downside, particularly because his contract is guaranteed for the next three years.

3. How much would that cost in today's NBA market? The question any front office faces when analyzing a trade is how much value they will receive from the package in the future. I believe that if Elton Brand were a free agent this summer, he'd be unlikely to find a team who was willing to offer him a three-year guaranteed deal for more than the Mid-Level Exception ($5.7 mil). Cap space will be too valuable. If the Wolves needed to fill that big man role, they could acquire a replacement player in free agency for the MLE, so a three-year MLE deal is a good estimate for Brand's fair market value today. A glance at his actual salary demonstrates not that he's simply overpaid, but that he's drastically overpaid. In my estimation, Elton Brand has one of the three worst contracts in the NBA today.

4. But what about Turner? He's underpaid! That's certainly true, but is he underpaid "enough" that the combination of these players is enough to have positive trade value?

One convenient benefit of estimating Brand's market price at the MLE is that it is remarkably close to Evan Turner's actual salary. The NBA's 2010 rookie scale was established in the last Collective Bargaining Agreement, and when we factor in the standard 20% raise that teams generally give first round lottery picks, Turner will be paid $17.1 mil over the next three years. This is identical to an MLE deal for Brand.

In other words, if Brand can earn Turner's contract, can Turner then earn Brand's?

5. How much is $51 mil for three years? I think subjectively, we already know that's a lot. Let me make some comparisons though. The Thunder's entire team payroll last year was $55. Next year's salary cap (and our likely total payroll) will be around $56. Brand's average annual salary is $17 mil/year. LeBron's new max deal will start at about that much.

6. But I think Evan Turner will be a superstar! You could be right, and its hard not to be excited by the kid. In addition, the Wolves biggest need may be the addition of a superstar, and probably the most likely way we'll acquire one is to get a young player with superstar potential. However, how sure are you that he will succeed? While every player must be evaluated individually, here's a look at the last ten years of #2 picks:

2000 Stromile Swift
2001 Tyson Chandler
2002 Jay Williams
2003 Darko Milicic
2004 Emeka Okafor
2005 Marvin Williams
2006 LaMarcus Aldridge
2007 Kevin Durant
2008 Michael Beasley
2009 Hasheem Thabeet
Evan Turner may become a superstar, but these players all had a lot of high expectations a month before their drafts as well, so I'm trying to demonstrate that Turner's superstardom is not guaranteed - risk must be assessed.

My point is that a trade like Al Jefferson for Elton Brand + #2 would be a huge gamble for the Minnesota Timberwolves to make. If the team uses its cap space this season, their total payroll will be close to the salary cap ($56 million) and it will make it hard for the team to outcompete more cost-effective teams if Elton Brand is using up about $17 mil each season for the next three years.

To make a deal like this, the Wolves would need to believe that Evan Turner will (not "might") become a star. They need to believe that the value he would bring, in production, revenue, marketing, and excitement, as well as his rights after three years, would be worth such a major investment. This deal has far more downside than up, but an attempt to get players that may become superstars requires great risks. And make no mistake -- taking on Elton Brand's horrible contract is a great risk.

2 recs | 68 comments | Add comment


Shefron reply to teddygreen on May 29 at 19:06

1. Two years from now Brand's $18 million expiring contract will be an asset.

2. Lebron's new max deal will be MUCH higher than 17 million in his first year. He is making around 16 million right now and Kobe's new deal pays him 30mill/yr.

3. Al Jefferson stinks, I don't want him

Brand Question.

Would you guys consider Brand for Hedo + 13 & the right to swap future picks?

Hedo is a sunk cost, but getting that Lottery pick and future pick swap means the ability to stockpile some young talent under an excellent teacher for their formative years in the L. I am not sure if I would pull the trigger, but I would really consider it. It would really depend on who's available at 13. If Aldrich is there, no brainer. I might even consider it for Udoh as well.

Another thing regarding Brand.

I have no illusions that Brand will get back to the 20-10 guy he was with the Clips. Regardless of Collins X&O or motivation skills, I think that guy was lost when EB tore his achilles.

That said, Collins has repeatedly said that he wants to help Brand "get back to himself" and be a team leader. He's also talked about establishing a tone of toughness for the team. I do believe Collins might be planning to make Brand into that physical bruiser he's talked about needing.

In his coaching career, Collins has preferred having bruisers & scrappers getting big minutes on his squad(Oakley, Don Reid, Otis Thorpe, Grant Long, Rick Mahorn, Oakley again, Jahidi White and Popeye Jones). I do believe they probably acquire another one between now and TC, but Brand is actually the closest thing on the roster.

With Turner soon to be in the fold, the need for him to create offense is lessened, which should allow him to focus in on the dirty work while taking advantage of mismatches and PnR chances with Holiday & Turner. Brand will be the guy doling out the hard fouls, setting the strong picks, bouncing dudes around for rebounds & loose balls.

During Collins 1st year in Chicago, he had Oakley averaging 14.5 ppg w/ 13 rpg. IMO, Brand could give us at least 14-8 next year as the 3rd option/tonesetter. That's roughly 70% of his career numbers; I'd like him to reach double-digit boards, but with plus rebounders like Sam, Dala, Holiday & now Turner in the fold, I don't know if he will get the opportunities.

I think turner will be the best player to come out of this draft. And I don't want favors. So many big men don't adapt to the nba well. Remember last year. A lot of guards had awesome rookie seasons. Big men that got drafted didn't. And we all remember what happened to the blazers picking a big man over a guard that dominated in college.

Turner may be but I doubt it. Wall's unique combination of speed and strength at that position? its tough to imagine him becoming anything less than a star, even if he doesnt reach his full potential.

guards thriving early is fool's gold to me. putting up numbers does not mean you will be a legit starter in the long run. I think Sacramento is making a mistake thinking Ty Evans is enough to build around. he will end up like Iguodala IMO. when teams start to notice you and they develop a scouting report on you, things change. big men take much longer to blossom. IF and when they do, you reap your dividends when you start playing playoff games. thats why Favors is so appealing.

Durant was a SF though. Oden is actually not a bust yet; its the injuries are killing him. If he survives them I still think he can develop into a pretty good big.

Yea ur points r true, but I think we would be making a big mistake if we don't take turner. His midrange game is awesome. His iq is high, and his athletiscism is underrated. His shot doesn't look bad. His range is just not extended to 3. He rebounds, scores, gets assists and plays defense. Where can he go wrong. And wall got noticed the easy way. He played with a stacked team that ran but sucked in the half court. I don't think wall will be that good in the half court. And favors is ok but I don't want to pass on turner

Wedfinfwe on May 30 at 0:24

Favors may have more potential but Turner is the safer pick.

In regards to Brand, there is no rush to trade him.

2 years from today

Evan Turner will be 23
Jrue Holliday will be 21
Thaddeus Young will be 23
Andre Igoudala will be 28
Marreese Speights will be 24

Brand will have an 18 million expiring contract and we will trade him for a stud PF. By that time we will also get a very good defensive Center through the draft or free agency. Then we will fire Doug Collins and bring in Phil Jackson.

Thus we will be 2013 NBA World Champions.

rchap13 on May 30 at 8:54

I just watched some favors highlights. I think his ceiling is dwight howard with a better post game. His floor is Tyson chandler. Turners floor is a better passing and rebounding Larry hughes. His ceiling is

Stan reply to rchap13 on May 30 at 9:23

Did you find his GA highlights?

rchap13 reply to Stan on May 30 at 13:43

Yea on youtube but it took me forever. It was under derrick favors college mix. About 5 minutes long. A lot of dunks and alleyoops

sfw reply to rchap13 on May 30 at 9:53

some say his ceiling is Dwayne Wade! I hope so!

jkay reply to sfw on May 30 at 12:55

he doesnt have Wade's ridiculous athleticism. Wade has some serious ups for a 6'5 guard. plus his explosive first step.
close but not enough to get Turner there.

IMO, Turner's floor is BRoy and his ceiling MVP-Kobe or Manu mixed with Prime Grant Hill.

Rich reply to rswknight on May 30 at 16:37

I like Turner, but I think that's a little high. There's a big difference between MVP-Kobe and Manu, in quality but more in how they do it. I think he'd be closer to Kobe's number one option role as Manu had one of the weirdest roles in NBA history (6th man with the best PF in NBA history who moonlighted between number 2/1 scorer).

Still, MVP Kobe? I love Turner, but his jumper and athleticism are way behind MVP Kobe. He's a better playmaker than Kobe was in his best stages, but not near the scorer. I'd take a more assertive/versatile Brandon Roy and that is more realistic.

Current Kobe isn't jumping over people any more. He relies on his skill & guile to cover his diminishing yet still solid athleticism. Kobe is closer in athleticism to Manu & Roy than he is to the Wade & LeBron of the league.

That said, given Turner's ruthlessly aggressive mindset, solid athleticism & excellent fundamentals, I see no reason why during he couldn't be a 25+-5-5 guy in his prime, which is basically what Kobe has doing during these last couple years.

Rich reply to rswknight on May 31 at 0:03

Turner's not as good of a shooter/scorer as Kobe is even now. You said it, Kobe is using guile and tricks now, but he is a much better shooter than Turner. I see Turner more around 20 points per game because he's not the pure scorer Kobe is. Wade/LeBron's athleticism is more than Turner, and Kobe's jumper is better. That's why it'll be tough for him to be a 28 PPG scorer like MVP Kobe.

Plus current Kobe is playing with a team that spaces the floor better and has more threats than than the Sixers will. Hopefully that will change, but Kobe is in such a great situation. I actually think Turner is better in other spots and depending if Iguodala, he could be a little bit each way of a 21/6/7 type guy. That would be great though.

The key phrase was "in his Prime". Turner isn't going to walk in the door as MVP-Kobe; though I wouldn't be surprised if he gets 20-5-5 in his rookie year(depending on how Collins uses him). But he has the tenacity and the work ethic to add whatever skill needed for him to excel.

Rich reply to rswknight on May 31 at 4:15

I would hope so about the work ethic, but nobody really knows about that. Just because he has the right qualities up to now doesn't mean it's a sure thing for guaranteed success. It makes taking him a more logical move, but nothing is guaranteed. Brandon Roy seems to be a warrior, but he's injured way too much. Things can happen. I bet everyone in the world a few years ago would have bet LeBron had that gene in him to improve on whatever skill he needed, but now that he still does a lot of the same stuff, you have to wonder.

I would be surprised if he was to get 20 PPG in his first year. That really doesn't happen very much. Collins would have to give him the ball the whole game and I don't really see that. 20-5-5 has been done by four guys (Oscar, MJ, LeBron, Tyreke Evans) so that would be a pleasant surprise. I think Jrue and Iguodala will touch the ball more than the supporting cast for Evans did this year.

Rich reply to rswknight on May 30 at 16:38

Oh, a healthier Brandon Roy too!

I'd take Brandon Roy with Kobe's killer mentality. Its not all about skill, its also how you attack the game.

That said... i still hate Kobe :)

johnrosz reply to tk76 on May 30 at 19:33

you see any similarities with Paul Pierce at all? In the sense that he's not a super athlete but a guy with good body control, Paul wasn't a great outside shooter out of college. Had that killer instinct though and a knack for scoring. Played 3 years of college ball, similar size, similar numbers. Turner reminds me of Pierce a lot more than Roy but I'm usually awful with the whole comparison thing.

Stan reply to johnrosz on May 30 at 21:39

I remember reading Thad's profile on nbadraft.net and his NBA comparison was Paul Peirce.

johnrosz reply to Stan on May 30 at 21:57

jeez really? Odd. That's why I'm more of a draft express guy haha

I don't know about that.....

Id be happy if he was a 1999 Kobe Bryant

First. Thats the gheyest picture of Kobe ever.
Second. Just watching the finals, you can see just how important it is to have an elite, ice water in his veins, scorer who can close out games. There are only like a dozen or so guys like this in the whole league. Sixers have been blessed with the good fortune to get the second pick. Use it on someone who can close out games, unless we want to go another season of Iguodola playing this role. Which we all know he cant do.....

jkay reply to Gdog on May 31 at 1:21

IMO Kobe took way too many shots. trying to win the game. shots found twine and Suns defense sucked, so good for him.

Even against a zone, you dont just chuck. they have the perfect zone busting big in pick and roll - Gasol. he took like 8 or 9 shots for the game?

Turtle Bay reply to jkay on May 31 at 3:59

Considering he made almost every single one of those shots, there's really no counter argument. If a player makes a bunch of shots in a row at the end of the game, it doesn't matter how difficult they were, they enabled the team to win the game. Some guys are just clutch. I can't stand the sight of Kobe, but I have to admit, at the end of games he ends up draining a ton of shots. I'm not talking about buzzer beaters. The guys over at ESPN already made a stupid argument about how his percentage of those isn't great. The point is, most of the times he closes out games before it gets to that point.

The Suns defense on Kobe was very good. Almost suffocating. He made tremendous shots and i'm sure his confidence is even higher now because of it. This only benefits Boston in the next round. Those fall-away double-pumps are not swishing in Boston.

Turtle Bay reply to Gdog on May 31 at 4:01

Agree with the fact that that picture is creepy as hell. Also, am I the only one going crazy without the next installment? Seriously, Brian, any post will do.

It's up. Can't a guy take a Sunday off once in a while? Had to take the kids to the zoo.

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