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Free Agent Target: Lou Amundson

i'd much rather have Shavlik Randolph who was much more skilled than Amundson and could provide the same energy.

whats stopping Phoenix from keeping Amundson? i'm sure he's not clouded as to his worth. he carved out a pretty niche for himself, and Suns can never have too much toughness or hustle.

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Turtle Bay on Jun 12 at 2:09
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He's not Reggie Evans, but he's a terrible free throw shooter like Reggie Evans.

I like the intangibles that Amundson brings BUT he needs offensive talent around him. Elton and Amundson(too small). Sammy & Amundson(No offense). Speights and Amundson(????). Amundson & Smith(enough said).......

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deepsixersuede on Jun 12 at 7:28
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Somebody said on the last thread that the sixers don!t find "diamonds in the rough" like other teams; I disagree; they find them [R.Bell, B.Bowen, L.Amundson] but give them away before they fully develop.

I think Pheonix keeps him and Doug gets this type of guy from the undrafted, hungry player pool. I agree and disagree with S.F.W.; I agree about the size issue in that this player has to either block shots or impose his will physically in the lane but disagree about him needing offensive ability. Screen setting, offensive rebounding and toughness is all he needs to bring to the offensive end for a 2nd unit that can score but not do much else.

Was bringing in a player development coach the idea of Doug, his son, coach "K", or E.S. or all of the above. If given a choice would you guys invest in a future #1 or invest in developing the talent already here? I like this hiring.

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deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 12 at 7:41
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By the way, the player I just described sounds like B.Zoubek to me.

agreed. if you want a cheap, tough player, you grab zoubek in the second round (or sign him if he goes undrafted)

The more I read about this guy, the more I like him. Could play with Sammy or Elton. Is closer to being ready to play than the other "prospects". Doubt though that any acquired pick would be high enough without giving up our second pick.

http://realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/917/20100611/draft_report_patrick_patterson_of_kentucky/

as much as i like Admunsons work ethic and attitude, he's total mess......he's a bull in a China shop...if we need a guy who can play 5 minutes a game and give us 3 fouls and 3 rebounds fine....but who really cares.

Terrible idea - paying up to $3M for guys like Amundson would be a huge mistake. UDFA can give you hustle without pushing you into the luxury tax.

Id actually like us try to get darko milicic. I think hes still got some potential and has shown some good stuff for the wolves at the end of the year. If hes goin cheap, could be alright.

I'm sure Theo's available.

Has anyone looked at the plus/minus for this years draft class? Derrick Favors Net was 3rd Best in College last year. There was a huge difference when he wasn't on the floor. I hope our team looks at this type of data. How can we pass on a guy with such upside at the #2? Does anyone thing turner has a higher upside then Favors? Does anyone think Favors wouldn't be the #1 pick next year if he stayed in College? We drafted Jrue last year who would have been a top five player in this years draft if he stayed. That worked out just fine for us. Favors would most certainly go #1 if he put up the type of stats he did last year in his last 15 games. Here is the link to the plus/minus.

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?q=plusminus&year=2009/10&league=NCAA&per=pergame&qual=sec2010&sort2=DESC&pos=all&stage=all&min=20&conference=&sort=8

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jkay reply to smh1980 on Jun 12 at 19:46
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i believe someone already brought that to our attention already, but material is always welcome.

I am staying away from that 'IF' argument. its a trap to convince you with something that you cant call. I'm sure Favors will be decent player. i wont shed tears when we pass on him (or better said; dont reach for him) for Turner.
guys like Thad and Speights have made me wary of 'IFs' and 'potential'. Should go with the sure thing. the only sure thing about Favors is that he will a very good defensive big. that's not enough to warrant a #2 pick in this scenario, IMO

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Old School SixerFan reply to jkay on Jun 12 at 20:48
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The question the Sixers have to answer to make this pick is whether Evan Turner is more likely to be the next Wade or Kobe than Favors is to be the next Dwight Howard. If Turner is indeed the next Dwayne Wade and Favors the next Dwight Howard, which would make you happier?

Wade, hands down. Everyone likes to downgrade players on this blog - how about the fact that Howard is practically useless in the final five minutes of games, foul prone, and a terrible free throw shooter? I'd take Wade over Howard ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

I can see the value of saying would you rather have a star big versus star wing. But to pick specific players implies too much.

You could just as easily said would you rather have Kobe or Kemp.

If you are certain that Favors will be a top star then he should be the choice. I think the reason that consensus Turner is the #2 pick is that most scouts see Turner as ending up the better player of the two. If it was otherwise, scouts would be leaning towards Favors, just like Howard was the consensus pick over Okafor.

If anything, I think the talking heads would prefer to go with the high upside guy, since it makes them seem smart and prescient. But the fact that most say Turner tells me he projects to be better. But people have been wrong before.

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deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Jun 12 at 23:46
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C. Riena, who I respect and read a lot, seems to be one of the few down on Turner, saying he won!t be an allstar; I hope he is wrong this time.

Honestly, I have not seen enough Turner or Favors to fairly say who will be better. Although clearly Turner is the better player next year. I doubt either will be a bad pick. And I equally doubt either will be a top 7 NBA player- but its possible.

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jkay reply to tk76 on Jun 13 at 4:22
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+1
all this comparison is almost baseless.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to jkay on Jun 13 at 11:23
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not sure why there is still an arguument for who to draft. we have the opportunity to fill 1 of our glaring needs - a SG and PF. the SG is the consensus #2 pick who is almost a shoe-in to be a very good nba player. the PF is a raw athletic type who we hope can develop offensive skills and grow into his body. i know a lot of pepople think favors is a future superstar. but the fact is there is tons of risk around this actually happening. there is a long list of busts who are young and raw and never end up that good. 5 for 20 shooting jumpers at Tech ? can you say "Lack of basketball Skill" obviously a PF doesnt need to be a good jump shooter, but come on, 5 for 20 ?

our franchise is in shambles. we dont have the luxury of taking a gamble. thats exactly what favors is.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll list a few reasons why I disagree with the view that it is a slam dunk choice.

1) I haven't personally seen film or even read analysis of instances where Turner excelled on offense against man-to-man coverage by a pseudo NBA quality guard with NBA 2-guard length and speed. The Sixer decision makers have access to infinitely more info than I have, so hopefully they have this base covered. Of course one could say the same thing about the other high ranked prospects in this draft, but almost the entire premise of Turner at #2 is that he is ready to excel against NBA defenders. I haven't seen much that justifies a high degree of confidence in that premise.

2) Turner had a great college career but wasn't particularly highly ranked coming out of HS. In past drafts, HS rankings have been informative predictors of NBA success that are not totally dominated by NCAA performance rankings.

3) A lot of people don't agree with your premise about the risk/reward profile the Sixers should take. Prior to the Eddie Jordan disaster, many Philly fans were lamenting the team's ability to never get past the first round of the playoffs while doing too well to get a difference maker in the draft. The best guess of Evan Turner's effect over the next couple years is that it puts the team right back at that spot of first round playoff exit and picking #15 or so. In the meantime Brand is aging, SammyD may go to another team as a FA, and Speights' development is uncertain, and JasonSmith might be better suited to Europe, so the team's stock of bigs is an issue that may grow in time.

4) Some people seem 100% sure that Turner's personality is a good fit, but I'm not in that group. For instance, some people liked this June 11 interview - http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/sixers - but to me it just seemed like Turner was asked an edgy question and gave an immature b.s. answer to it. For incoming rookie, I'd rather have the mentality of a guy like Favors that goes to workout at Sacramento even though nobody projects him to fall that far. So as not to exceed the DepressedFan link quotient, I'll post a followup from another observer who isn't sold on Turner's maturity.


Here is the other link I mentioned above - http://notqualifiedtocomment.com/2010/05/evan-turners-flaws.html

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deepsixersuede reply to izimbra on Jun 13 at 13:16
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Good stuff; my main concern is HOW good he will be and it is not just between him and Favors. If we pass on a chance to get W.Johnson plus other pieces and Turner is not up to Iggy!s level at least than I will be disappointed. 5 Years from now I hope we can say that an Iggy/Turner combo was the best way to go and a threesome of them plus Jrue can be championship quality.

Having the #2 usually means you will be disappointed in the end. Most #2 picks have turned out to be not nearly the player Iguodala is. And yet when you have the #2 everybody is expecting you land a superstar. Fact is, only 4-5 of the last 25 #2 picks have been stars.

Not saying we should aim low. But we should be realistic about the outcome. You hope to get a star, but you at very least need to find an important piece to building a winner. Guys like Iguodala and Jrue are important pieces. I expect either Favors or Turner also will become good players- which would not be a failure IMO.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to tk76 on Jun 13 at 13:58
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i dont think turner will be a superstar, but i think he will be a good player. there is a very good chance favors never pans out. i think people are ignoring that because of his 'huge upside'. under normal circumstances, id say go with riskier pick with more upside. but i dont feel the sixers have that luxury. we took a gamble on brand and got screwed. this franchise needs a real piece. we cant afford another shitty move. and if favors is the next stromile swift, we just missed a huge opportunity to improve. save the risky, high payoff moves for when we are on the cusp of being a contender.

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deepsixersuede reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jun 13 at 14:42
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If they are leery of the risk they could trade him for a current player in the league. I am less worried about Favors bust potential than a stupid trade for a proven player. I don!t try to get involved in 3 team trades but this pick really seems to have value and I hope they maximize that value, whatever way they go.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 13 at 19:11
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what does trading the #2 pick have to do with the favors/turner argument. my point is simply that selecting derek favors is a too risky a move for a flailing franchise.

I made a case for why Favors is not like a Stromile Swift in the most recent "Pressing Comments" thread. Stats and film show that Favors was already a difference maker in term of defense and rebounding.

IMO, the probability of either Turner or Favors becoming a true superstar is pretty low if by true superstar we mean a guy who accounts for +10 or more wins compared to an avg. player at the same position. Let's talk instead about a "difference maker" as a guy who accounts for at least 3 more wins.

DM = "Difference maker"

My views -

Probability Favors becomes at least avg. starting 4 on defense - 90%
Probability Turner becomes at least avg. starting 2 on offense - 80%
Probability Turner becomes at least avg. starting 2 on defense - 70%
Probability Favors becomes at least avg. starting 4 on offense - 60%
Probability Favors becomes a DM on defense - 55%
Probability Turner becomes a DM on offense - 50 %
Probability Favors becomes a DM on offense - 30%
Probability Turner becomes a DM on defense - 25%

Favors also has some chance to become a center in the mold of Dwight Howard and Turner has some chance to become a PG in the mold of Penny Hardaway but the chances of them being a DM at those positions are relatively low (i.e.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to izimbra on Jun 13 at 21:13
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im glad you made a case. but that really doesnt mean anyhting, no offense. the fact is, a lot of things need to happen for favors to be successful. 2 major things are to learn offense and grow into his body. im tired of people assuming that this will happen for every raw athlete 6'8'' and taller. im not saying favors doesnt have potential. im merely pointing out that the guy is a risk, he isnt a shoe-in to be the next dwight howard.

how does a franchise who has f----cked up as much as the sixers pass up on turner for a raw guy who honestly didnt really impress anyone in college.

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Old School Sixer Fan reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jun 13 at 23:16
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Did you actually say Favors didn't impress anybody in College?

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Old School Sixer Fan on Jun 14 at 19:55
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yep. didnt impress me in the many games i watched. i know, his team sucked and he never got the ball. whatever.

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deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Jun 13 at 14:51
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Have you heard anything from the Cousins/Favors workout?

From the Sac Bee today:

"* With less than two weeks until the NBA Draft, the Kings wrapped up a week full of important workouts. Sacramento got an up-close look at two of the best incoming prospects on Saturday when Derrick Favors (Georgia Tech) and DeMarcus Cousins (Kentucky) stopped by the team's facility for a closed workout.
The players did not go head-to-head in the workout. The routine included shooting drills, post offense and transition work.
Favors is a longshot to be on the board when the Kings pick at #5. But the 6'10" freshman would be a good fit because of his strong defense and offensive potential.
Favors said he is familiar with the Kings team.
“Yeah, I know a lot about them," he told Andrew Nicholson of Kings.com. "Back in the day they used to be a good team and always made it to the Western Conference Finals. (Sacramento) is a nice city. It’s in California, who wouldn’t want to come to California?”
Cousins is a much hotter topic among Kings fans. The 6'11" center is bursting with talent, but concerns about his work ethic could make him available to Sacramento. Cousins thinks he could fit with the Kings.
“I think I could be a big body down low, a low-block scorer, a post presence, and I believe I could produce on their team," he told Nicholson.
For more information on Favors and Cousins, check out their Kings Draft Profiles: Favors and Cousins. "
http://www.examiner.com/x-31512-Sacramento-Kings-Examiner~y2010m6d12-Kings-notes-Nocioni-requests-trade-again-Cousins-Favors-work-out-for-team

http://fullcourtpress.kingsconnect.com/archives/6661

Kings report on Favors/Cousins workout

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deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Jun 13 at 20:30
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Thanks a lot.

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JasonMess on Jun 13 at 16:00
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I do not think that it make a difference witch player we pick it is how you teach and train that player. Also who you put around him, and what style you play. I think both Favors, Turner, and Johnson will fit with this team just fine. The only one I question is Cousins because he has to decide if he is going to be a pro or just try and get by on talent. It is tough not to try and compare draft prospects with current or past players, but you have to try and let them become the player they become and not say he is a bust because he did not become Dwight Howard ect.... So I think that regardless who they pick it will come down to who they add in the next couple of years to go with this pick VS this pick got us a championship or cost us one.

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Old School Sixer Fan reply to JasonMess on Jun 13 at 17:20
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Jason, Can I assume you don't subscribe to the common notion that a team must have a scoring superstar to have a chance to win a championship? It sounds like you think that a team with 5 quality starters and a decent bench, well coached might have a chance. That makes it easier on Stefanski, DiLeo & Collins since they wouldn't have to decide which player among Favors, Turner and Cousins will be a superstar scorer. Sounds logical, but it goes against history.

I read Jason's comment as more in the line of none of the available guys is likely to be a superstar so let's not worry too much about that. I kind of agree with that thinking - it's too hard to predict who will be a superstar. I'm not even too sure about Wall - I mean he would be first try, but I'd make the odds way less than 50%. My second try would probably be Hassan Whiteside, but the odds for him are only around 10% and his odds of not ever being starter quality are very high - too high to make him a top pick.

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JasonMess on Jun 13 at 20:18
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I think that you need a true leader who is very skilled but maybe not a 20 ppg guy. Think when the team made it to the final with AI3 what where we missing, I think most of us would say a good secondary go to guy. So if we draft Turner is he the first? who is the second ? The same goes for if we draft Favors I think he will take a couple of years to be a first or second. with Cousins I think he could be a second but not a first you would need a good wing player with him. With Wes Johnson I think he a lot like Turner can step in right away and be the second and quickly develop into a first. I think the last couple of finals have shown you need at least two really good scoring options because the other team is going to make one of your top guys a lot less effective night in and night out.

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