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Dalembert About To Be Traded

Also, depending on where the cap comes in, this move could get them under the luxury tax threshold for this season. Yay.

Brian - My scratching my head as well.

Nocioni's 3rd year being a team option is huge.

I've been told this has no effect on the teams draft strategy.

If this doesn't effect their draft strategy then who will the Sixers get to play defense and rebound down low? Right now they don't have anyone who can do either. Brand is a shell of himself after all the injuries, Speights doesn't have the desire to rebound and is allergic to defense, and Hawes is probably the softest big man in the league.

Doesn't change their draft strategy doesn't mean they're still taking Turner. Could mean they were taking Favors all along.

Good point guess I didn't consider that. I was just going off most of the interviews I've read and heard the past couple weeks where they all but pretty much said they were taking Turner.

I have been told they prefer Turner, and this doesn't change that.

You were told today, or prior to the team working both guys out?

What do you mean both guys working out? Favors comes in tomorrow (which I should be at, btw).

I was told before today they prefer Turner, and told today this trade doesn't change that.

Gotcha. So they preferred Turner before either worked out. Still prefer him now, after Turner worked out, but haven't had Favors in yet.

"If this doesn't effect their draft strategy then who will the Sixers get to play defense and rebound down low?"

They're not a finished product. Right now it's about collecting talent. I don't think anyone in their frontcourt is really in their long term plan, including Dalembert.

Ok if this isn't the finished product then who do you feel will be moved to bring in the defense and rebounding down low that Sammy gave? Thad? Lou? Igoudala?

Brian, anyone worthy of the MLE that could possibly fill this need?

I also get the feeling talking to a few people that the team viewed Dalembert as gone after the season, unless they drastically overpaid to retain him.

Having Sammy walk after the year is better than owing Nocioni $6M+ next season. You could've done much better than him on an MLE deal, IMO.

favors seems like the choice to me now

Addition by subtraction move. Also puts them under luxury cap territory. ALSO puts the MLE back in play. I think I'm ok with the move. Dalembert's value around the league a lot lower than many of us believe. I wish we'd have picked up Sacto's 2nd round pick, but oh well...

rchap13 reply to Marty on Jun 17 at 15:38

Stefanski probably didn't even try to push for the #2 pick

JohnEMagee reply to Marty on Jun 17 at 16:58

Yes - the sixers are now better cause the only defensive big man they were paying is off their roster.

Blind Hatred with ignorance of facts is silly folks - sam isn't terrible

It's also subtraction by addition cause they added two more soft doughy bench players who can't play defense...AWESOME

You have a limit of 12 active players a game and the sixers just gave up a starter and added two useless guys

Do you know what this means?

Elton will be our starting C, while Young will be our PF

I hate this trade.

I also don't think Nocioni will be around long. Word is the Raptors are interested. I wouldn't mind Jarrett Jack backing up Jrue.

The Greek on Jun 17 at 15:43

Brian are you actually expecting to fetch Sacramento's fifth overall pick for Sammy?

After I heard the news I went out and danced on the street, and I hate dancing.

No, my point was the Sixers didn't get enough in return if it was just Nocioni and Hawes.

Players like Hawes were the reason i could always stomache Sammy. I hate this deal, hate it, hate it, hate it.

I just don't get the logic. There is no way they can view Hawes as a legit starting center in this league. I agree, where there was no gap, now there is a huge one.

My only hope is that this is only the beginning of the deals.

Does this mean Iggy is a goner? That is a lot of money for Nocioni, a 3, to spend the majority of the time on the bench behind Iggy.

Hawes and Brand is a scary combo. Scary bad.

The timing of this is interesting as well. They just had Turner in, maybe they didn't like what they saw and figured Sam and Favors were just too similar. Hawes and Favors, Hawes and Speights, Brand and Favors?

They are making another move for sure. Now they lack any athleticism in the frontcourt.

So what is the next move?

Iggy for another pick? Do you drop down and hope Favors falls? He is not falling past the Nets, so that is out.

Clueless as to the master plan. I guess you draft Favors, trade Thad and try and grab a two.

I was just finally on the Turner bandwagon.

Boy, this Sixers obsession can really have its rough days, huh.

IMO, this move has to be a precursor to more moves. Was sammy more marketable around the league than hawes or nocioni?

bebopdeluxe on Jun 17 at 15:58

I got this article off of NBA.com before the 2007 draft (it was written by a guy from the T-Wolves site)...after going through this, it certainly seems like the guy has the skills to be a traditional low-post C - at least on the offensive end. I just wonder if a fresh start - with a new coach and system - can help this guy realize the potential that made him a top-10 pick in the first place...

Age: 19
Hometown: Seattle, WA
College:University of Washington
Position: Center
Height: 7-0
Weight: 230 lbs.
Class: Freshman

Perhaps the best "traditional" low-post player available in terms of skills around the basket, Hawes can score with a variety of moves, and with both hands. He has good feet for someone his size and can step outside to knock down a jumper. He also passes well out of the post, and can get up and down the floor. He has the potential to be a solid defensive presence in the lane as well.

At just 19-years-old, Hawes himself acknowledges that he needs to get stronger. He was able to score in the Pac-10, but will he be effective against bigger players in the NBA? He isn't the quickest or most athletic player in the draft either.

Low-post scoring has not been a strong point for the Timberwolves when Kevin Garnett isn't posting up on the low block, and Hawes can help in that area, particularly after some NBA experience. He has a terrific skill set for such a big kid, one that under the right tutelage could make him a steal at the No. 7 spot. A true throwback, Hawes grew up watching a lot of Kevin McHale, who may have had the best low-post moves of any player in NBA history. Having a center that can take pressure of KG in the post on both ends of the floor could be invaluable for Minnesota.


ESPN.com NBA Draft analyst Chad Ford:
“Skilled big man with advanced low-post moves for a kid his age. Can score with either hand around the basket. Excellent shooter who can play the high post and work the pick and pop. Good passer for a big man. Excellent basketball IQ. As fundamentally sound as any big man in the country.”

“Very skilled around the basket and can finish with a soft touch with either hand. Runs the floor well and has the ability to handle the ball when needed. Also an outstanding passer for a big man.”

“Hawes is very long and has very good hands. He runs the floor very well for his size. His ball-handling, is fantastic, especially in the open court, as he played a lot of guard before his reaching his full height. Hawes is very smooth on the court, and has a great, soft touch around the basket.”

University of Washington website
“One-year letterman ... All-Pac-10 honorable mention selection for the 2007 season ... A first-team All-Pac-10 Freshman Team honoree in 2007 ... A second-team NABC District 14 selection ... Honored as a freshman All-American by CollegeInsider.com and Rivals.com ...”

“Uses both hands at the rim effectively like few are capable of doing. Talented and skilled in the paint, he's got a variety of scoring moves.”

NBA Draft Blog
“Hawes is an old school center with great intellect and a surprisingly effective skill set. He has a variety of moves to score near the basket and is excellent at passing out of the low post.”

“Great shot blocker. Can score in the post with turnaround jumpers and hook shots with both hands. Excellent passer with great court vision. Good rebounder.”

“The most offensively skilled center in the draft. A true 7 footer. He has a low post game that is incredibly advanced for his age. Although he is not the best athlete in the world, his offensive footwork is exceptional, which allows him to beat bigger and quicker defenders.”

WHERE WILL HAWES GO? (Internet Mock Draft Recap)

NBA.com Consensus Draft:
#10 to Kings

#7 to Wolves


Chad Ford of ESPN.com:

#9 to Bulls

Sean Deveney, SportingNews.com:

Sports Illustrated:
#13 to Hornets

Tony Mejia, CBS Sportsline:

His three seasons in the league mean a lot more to me than a scouting report before the draft.

The crazy thing here is that Hawes is a restricted free agent w/ a $4.5M qualifying offer. If they're really in love with him, that means we've essentially eaten up all the expiring money off Dalembert's contract for next summer for 2 bench players. Best-case scenario, we got a three who can defend and shoot the three a little bit for too much money.

scratch what i said about defense, Nocioni is putrid on that end, statistically.

The problem with Hawes, and the reason his post scoring hasn't translated to the NBA, is that he doesn't have the lower body strength to establish and maintain position. He's still got a considerable amount of skill, footwork, and touch down there.

teddygreen on Jun 17 at 16:00

What's the depth chart right now?

As of today, this is my guess:

PG: Jrue, Williams
SG: Williams, Green, Meeks
SF: Iguodala, Nocioni, Thad
PF: Thad, Speights
C: Brand, Hawes, Speights, Jason Smith

Something like that. You can put Turner or Favors in as starters, whoever the pick may be.

This lineup, though, is trash:

PG: Jrue
SG: Turner
SF: Iguodala
PF: Thad
C: Brand

That lineup will get absolutely demolished in the front court, I don't care how good the smalls are.

teddygreen on Jun 17 at 16:09

yeah, i prefer this starting five..


Here's a nice article on Anthony Morrow's imprending free agency from Sham Sports...


What do you mean by culture change on the court? I think this is a mixed signal from what we've been lead to believe with Collins and defense. I feel that these guys would be more suited to Jordan's system than Collins' defense. Sammy would fit this.

Maybe in the locker room it's a culture change as far as Sammy lacking accountability. Still, Andres Nocioni is not even close to a good locker room guy.

I think it's to get under the threshold. Too bad.

This trade makes me physically ill for a number of reasons:

1) Hawes sucks; at least Sammy was a presence in lane when he showed up.
2) Another SF? Unless we're trading Iggy and/or Young, we need another SF like we need a hole in the head
3) If they take Favors (or anyone else) over Turner, I will literally stop watching (read: no NBA League Pass for me in 2010-2011); I think this trade is a precursor to Favors
4) I like Collins, but if he really wants Favors over Turner, that changes my mind
5) Last nail in the coffin for ES--Kings get back a workable (albeit wildly inconsistent) C, give up nothing.

I'm not sure how this trade could such any worse for us...

I guess the reasoning is simple:

1. They got the toughness Collins wanted in Nocioni
2. They got the young big they were after in Hawes
3. They got under under the luxury tax as a bonus

I don't like the trade, but it represents everything Collins and Stefanski said in the past month. At the end of the day, this doesn't necessarily mean we are better or worse next season or in the long run. Time will tell...

Rich reply to Xsago on Jun 17 at 16:31

He's tough, but his head wanders at times. I question if Nocioni and Dalembert's heads aren't totally different from each other. We'll see...

paul reply to Xsago on Jun 17 at 16:46

"At the end of the day, this doesn't necessarily mean we are better or worse next season or in the long run. Time will tell..."

Truest words of this whole thread.

"Toughness in Nocioni?"--you think he'll sniff the court with our 27 other SFs?

"Young big in Hawes?"--is that a joke? The guy sucks. At least Sammy blocked shots.

I don't give a rat's ass about the tax. It's about wins and losses; the payroll is their problem.

Only way I reconsider this deal is if they still take Turner, and still deal some combo of Iggy/Young/Lou/Green ASAP...

As i said i don't like the trade either (especially the Hawes part), but i guess that's what the Sixers management thought...

Sometimes I think this site should be called "Kneejerk Outraged Fan."

Let's all try to be a little more sanguine about all of this. An important thing to remember about Hawes is that he just finished what would have been his senior year of college had he stayed in school. He already does some things better than Sam ever did: shoot, score, and pass. He doesn't block all that many fewer shots. At his age he probably is still years away from his best seasons (big men tend to hit their stride a little later). He has plenty of time to upgrade his defense. He may never be as good on that end as Dalembert but we've seen enough of Dalembert to know that he will never have Hawes' upside on the other end of the court.

And a team can always use a player like Nocioni for a couple of seasons.

I am surprised by this trade, and, mostly, I always liked Sam, but the Sixers have never been all that successful with him, so why not give something else a chance.

bebopdeluxe reply to paul on Jun 17 at 16:56


Agree. I believe we needed to get rid of Sammy. I read all over the blogs over the past 2 years to get rid of him for a bag of marbles. As you stated, Hawes is young and given a year of "coaching", maybe he does become a shot blocker?

I am not interested in reading all negative anymore. Why in the world can't we get excited about a new coach, 2nd draft pick and move on? I guess all the talk about negaphiladelphia is more correct than I thought.

Can't we all give DC a year to get a team he wants to coach (can I speculate that Sammy and his rotten, lazy attitude being gone was one of his conditions?) and this was the best we could do.

I am in a give a year before I criticize a move. Even if they pick Favors over Turner (ouch, that is hard to say).


Additionally shot blocking is not as essential for teams that have good perimeter defense, which hopefully we will.

Tom Moore on Jun 17 at 16:49

Hear Turner is still the Sixers' guy.

Sixers finally got a couple decent players for Dalembert, so they did it.

Calling Nocioni decent I agree with but Hawes is the furthest thing from decent and not really what this team needs (soft big who doesnt play D)

makes no sense to me either. whats the rush to trade sammy? his value will only go up as next year's trade deadline approaches, surely they could have done better.

i have to think something else, another trade, is in the works.

johnrosz on Jun 17 at 16:55

When did Sammy D become Hakeem the Dream?

I don't think anyone is saying he was Hakeem just that he filled a need (rebounding, shotblocking, interior D) for this team that they no longer have and will struggle to replace. Don't really know how collins is going to improve the D without big men who play D.

bebopdeluxe reply to johnrosz on Jun 17 at 17:03


It is clear that - like the Phillies with the Abreu/Lieberthal housecleaning - Doug Collins wants to clean house of the "old guard" and bring some old-fashioned toughness and accountability to the squad.

Sammy was harmless...but he also was a doofus who showed up late, disappeared during games and said kooky things. Given that Hawes is only 22, I am happy to swap Sammy - who would not be a part of the future of this team - for a guy who potentially could be in Hawes (and I'm willing to trust that Collins sees enough in the guy to give this a shot).

And while Nocioni may not be an all-world defender, I can assure you that he will employ the "no dunks or layups" rule when he's around the basket...and a young team like the Sixers will get that message.

JohnEMagee reply to bebopdeluxe on Jun 17 at 17:09

The abreu trade was BETTER than this trade

Bob75 reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 20:18

Not a chance. Phils gave up a pretty good player and a starting pitcher (Lidle), got a pile of magic beans in return, and wound up spending the money they saved the following season on the Eaton signing/Garcia's salary. Yeah that was a good move.

The Greek reply to bebopdeluxe on Jun 17 at 17:32

I agree with everything you just said. Sammy is a stinkin loser and he will always be a stinkin loser.

The Kings clearly won the trade, but reading their forums, and how ecstatic they are about the trade is hilarious to me. They think they sent two guys with terrible attitude for a guy who will completely solve their interior presence defensively without using any possessions on offense.

They are in for a very rude awakening lol :D

bebopdeluxe reply to Xsago on Jun 17 at 17:14

I don't think they clearly won the trade - unless the SOLE thing you judge the trade on is Noc's 2011-12 contract.

JohnEMagee reply to bebopdeluxe on Jun 17 at 17:19

They won the trade...because watch what they turn sam into later in the season as an expiring contract cause they aren't terrified of the luxury tax the way the sixers are.

Someone in the media who no longer wants sixers access - please ask this question tomorrow

"Mr Stefanski, a much more accomplished and skilled general manager is not having his contract renewed in Phoenix at the end of the month, can you tell the media and the fans what sort of blackmail material you have that allows you to keep your job?"

The Greek on Jun 17 at 17:27

sacro has scheduled a 5:30 press conference

I think we got Hawes because he can shoot better than Sammy.That's pathetic.

Tom Moore reply to Levent on Jun 17 at 17:43

Maybe it was the first decent offer for Dalembert?

The Greek reply to Tom Moore on Jun 17 at 17:49

And probably the only offer for Sammy. it's amazing how many people are in tears over this. Just go ahead and get the league pass and watch Sammy the Great lead Saco to 22 wins next year.

JohnEMagee reply to Tom Moore on Jun 17 at 17:52

Sigh...you too tom huh?

What's the motivation, what's the rush - they have until the deadline to make a move with him to try and get under the salary tax - or trade willie green and a seconc round pick to a team with cap space to get under the tax

This is a stupid short sighted move that shows as much patience and common sense as when the phillies wouldn't trade for roy halladay unless they could also move cliff lee RIGHT AWAY

Hawes has good hands and can pass. You can't be any good in the half court without a center with good hands. He'll get stronger and he won't get any shorter.

At first I hated the trade, now I'm starting to come around. It's not like we traded Wilt.

Some of you guys are forgetting one thing...SAM SUCKS !
Lazy, undependable, only showed flashes. Thats not getting it done. End of story.
I like Nocioni for his toughness, Hawes ? who knows--the kid is 21 years old. Just because hes not that string now doesnt mean he cant GET strong. Players DO get stronger, their careers arent over at 21 years old. If this kid could put on 20 solid pounds he could be a real find. Evan Turner is the pick---there is no way the Sixers will draft a rawish project like favors over the college player of the year who happens to play a position we NEED even more so than PF or C.

JohnEMagee reply to Gdog on Jun 17 at 18:00

Nocioni isn't tough
Sam doesn't suck defensively (but hawes does)
And all you whiners about sam - the sixers are WORSE right now than they were after the draft lottery - adding evan turner won't provide a defensive presence in the middle

but thank god comcast saved 3 million dollars right?

The Greek reply to Gdog on Jun 17 at 18:05

lol, right on brother. Sam sucks, and that's the bottom line. Noncioni is a good player, a TOUGH player. Something Sammy never was and never will be. Saco will be paying that clown Sammy 14 million this year, what a heist.

JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jun 17 at 18:09

. Noncioni is a good player, a TOUGH player.

he's neither of those things, he hasn't been good for a while, and flopping and whining doesn't make you tough.

I'd use evidence already provided in another thread to back up how utterly bad Nocioni is - but you'll ignore it - because to you - no matter how many facts are given to you - it doesn't matter -

The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 18:15

I don't need your damn numbers to judge the guy, I have seen him play. And don't act as if you know me lefty.

johnrosz reply to The Greek on Jun 17 at 18:50

You'll get yourself into some trouble if you ignore the numbers. "If On Base Percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" Don't wanna sound like Jeff Francoeur do you?

The Greek reply to johnrosz on Jun 17 at 18:56

please any and all mets suck

JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jun 17 at 18:54

I don't need to 'know you' - to know people like you

You're like the guy who said 'bobby abreu pads his double stats' - he ignored the numbers too because he 'watched the games'

It's great - you watch the games - your eye is too slow to see everything and your brain has a bias - and you've demonstrated repeatedly that if someone thinks you're full of it you won't bother to try and support your argument you'll just insult people - good internet tactic - but why should anyone take your opinion seriously when you don't use facts to back them up.

This was a bad trade, both on and off the court, and yes you hate sam so you think it's a good trade, but then again, you'd cut off your penis to spite your ass

The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 19:01

Magee, your the original internet tough guy. You never have any opinions but you love to snarf at everyone. 100, 000 post a year and your still an assclown. Gotta a problem then show up to the draft in new york and we could handle this like real men.

Jason Mess reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 18:59

You can't always use numbers to prove who is a better defender. Who had better opp. number Luo or Drue.... yep it was Lou, did that make him a better defender nope. Wait and see what our roster looks like at the start of the year. Then think of what moves need to be made next. Then wait and see what happens. If they are going to rebuild the right way it may take us a few years, even if we make the playoffs next year.

JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jun 17 at 19:04

I don't know who Drue is.

There isn't going to be an earthquake in Haiti everyday.

Instead of letting Sammie walk, they traded him for a young big with potential. A change of scenery might mean everything for Hawes as the Kings have been messing with his brain since he got there.

Nocinoni isn't that bad either because it's only 2 years and then he expires.

Now we can take Turner, trade Thad or Lou, perhaps both, and get a young big like Alabi or Whiteside.

The team is rebuilding. We aren't getting anyone to come here, just collect talent and wait for Brands contract to expire. That should be the plan.

JohnEMagee reply to Mike P on Jun 17 at 18:30

Instead of letting Sammie walk, they traded him for a young big with potential. A change of scenery might mean everything for Hawes as the Kings have been messing with his brain since he got there.

Yes, when hawes refused to partake in optional off season workouts, mostly because they were optional, they were messing with him.

Hawes work ethic from his own beahvior and action have been a question since day one.

How many knee surgeries has he had?

Who really has the balls to say that spencer hawes has shown that he can be a good defender in the NBA? Seriously, come on, someone say it, back it up with something.


And Sam expires this year

, trade Thad or Lou, perhaps both, and get a young big like Alabi or Whiteside.

The presumption that either or both of the players have the trade value is not based in reality

Mike P reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 19:03

Neither of them are amazing players, but I like Hawes, he could become an Okur like player for us. I'm not excited about his ticking time bomb knees though. And at the very least he expires next year so they can just let him go if he doesn't pan out.

Sammie was good when he tried, but now that he is gone some of you guys are acting like he was Dikembe Motumbo.

This was just a move to get under the tax really, but at least we got something in return. Sure we could have waited until the trading deadline when Sammie was perhaps trying, but who knows how that would have went down.

I really have no idea what is going to happen right now though. Are the Sixers going to trade the number two pick and take Cousins? What if they move Hawes and get Love in the deal.

Would anyone be in favor of a Cousins/Love/Dre/maybe Morrow/Jrue line up?

I think I would.

So anyway, it's not the best move and it's not the worst move. I'm curious to see what the team will do going forward in the offseason/draft.

Turtle Bay reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 20:56

"Hawes work ethic from his own beahvior and action have been a question since day one."

Samuel Dalembert's "work ethic" is the worst in the league. Also, responding to people's comments by saying you don't know who "Drue" is is very childish.

Dutch reply to Turtle Bay on Jun 17 at 21:38


The Greek reply to Dutch on Jun 18 at 8:07


The Greek reply to Mike P on Jun 17 at 18:30

"The team is rebuilding. We aren't getting anyone to come here, just collect talent and wait for Brands contract to expire. That should be the plan."

Exactly, this is about getting the right players on the team. Sammy D had to go. It's amazing how people are so quick to shit on a 21 year old kid and on the other hand want to hold onto a proven shitbag such as samuel D

AaronMcKie4MVP reply to The Greek on Jun 17 at 19:05

Nocioni is decent, so his hawes. sometimes players do better when they change attitude in a new situation. why cant his decline be blamed on the system or the Sacramento situation? or does iguodala only get that benefit around here ?

fact is sam is a loser. he didnt work in philly. perhaps we could have waited and maximized value, but perhaps we tested the market for a while an could get nothing. its not a bad trade, the team is rebuilding

JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jun 17 at 19:08

fact is sam is a loser. he didnt work in philly

Nocioni hasn't worked in Sacramento - repeatedly - he declines to work - he blames everyone for his own flaws - and oh yeah - multiple knee surgeries.

Maybe sam's lucky he got traded, iguodala will be lucky when he gets trade

the majority of this fan base doesn't deserve a good team cause they only want a good team if it also plays in the way they 'approve' of - in the way that makes people think reggie evans and andre nocioni are 'good' players when in reality - they aren't

ANd with that - audi 5000

bebopdeluxe reply to Mike P on Jun 17 at 18:56

+1. Great post.

We trade one big man who had ZERO chance of a future with this team for a big man who could have a future with this team.

We get a 20-25 minute energy guy who can shoot the 3, so we can trade Thad for a young defensive big.

If this is Collins' call, I'm on board.

paul reply to Mike P on Jun 17 at 19:28

"Now we can take Turner, trade Thad or Lou, perhaps both, and get a young big like Alabi or Whiteside."

I like that idea (and another possibility, Larry Sanders) if they can manage to get a first round pick high enough to land one of them.

deepsixersuede on Jun 17 at 18:57

A 22 year old center with career per 36 numbers [14 pts., 9 reb. 1.5 bl.,2.5 ass.].How many bigs from this draft put up those numbers in their first 2 years? Brian, we will finally test what was talked about before; how bigtime offensive improvement is measured against a downgrade defensively.

He does block shots and can pass and shoot from the high post and may, it remains to be seen, be smarter as far as defensive positioning goes.I think he starts next year and best case, is our center for the next 5 years and worst case, is a part of a center tandem that mans the position for the next 5 years .

He could also work well with Brand and Turner playing in the high post and giving Brand space to do his thing down low.

It'd also free up room for Turner and 'Dre to drive to the hoop.

JohnEMagee reply to Mike P on Jun 17 at 19:09

What's awesome is that everyone who hates sam ignores the fact that the sixers now have no defense at the power forward or center position.

Cause you don't need defense n the NBA

Mike P reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 19:12

We'll have no defense now, but we can acquire defense via the draft. This isn't a win now situation anymore.

If we make the playoffs next year, great, but now we need to work building a team for the future.

I am now curious about this Cousins/Favors work out.

deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 19:16

What is Sacramento thinking? They like Cousins and Monroe so Sammy makes sense next to either I guess? A Sammy/Cousins tandem at the 5?

Sac town has Thompson and Landry. They don't need anymore bigs as they are insanely high on Sammie.

Maybe they will take Wes Johnson now.

If Sacto was insanely high on Sammie you'd think Stefanski could've at least gotten one valuable piece back in the deal.

Mike P reply to Brian on Jun 17 at 21:41

I think this move would have been much better received here if we had gotten Thompson or Landry in the deal instead of Hawes, but it is what it is.

Now we need to go move Lou for nothing and make the entire internet fan base mad.

bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Jun 17 at 23:06

I think Collins thinks that Hawes is that piece.

We'll see if he's right.

AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 17 at 19:25

yeah, no D. it would be terrible if we won less than 30 games. oh, wait, that already happened shepparded by iguodala and his merry men. how can it get worse? we are REBUILDING. i dont see a problem having Nocioni coming off the bench. hawes is a good player with skill. so lets see what happens. get turner in here and see what we have.

deepsixersuede reply to Mike P on Jun 17 at 19:11

No more 4 on 5 on offense; Reggie and Sammy gone and Turner coming, it will be fun to watch for sure and if you can!t beat Dwight, than pull him away from the basket with a shooting 5.

Gonna toss out another scenario.....what if the Sixers are leaning towards Cousins as their C of the future, and they decided to open up a spot for him while clearing some salary. Just a thought that is worth discussing.

Also, Sixers would not have to take Cousins at #2. Maybe trade down to #4 with Minny and pickup their extra 2 first rounders in the process? Or (if at all possible) unload Brand and the #2 for Jefferson and the #4.

JohnEMagee reply to Shahrod on Jun 17 at 19:06

If the sixers traded down to 4 and passsed on turner AND favors, there would be riots from what few dedicated fans they have less....it would be asinine beyond belief

Sometimes sixer blogs can be funny. All you have read about in the last 2-3 years is how Sammy sucks and needs to be traded and its BK's worst mistake ever, etc etc)that and Willie) and now that hes gone everyone complains. The players they have are decent, not great. Unfortunately the Sam for Dwight Howard trade wasnt on the table. Shocker. Sam's attitude is shit...if we know it dont you think the entire league knows it ?
The team is not done. Not by a long shot...

deepsixersuede reply to Gdog on Jun 17 at 19:23

I go back to the Houston game this year; no shot blockers but they drew 10 charges with good positional defense. We have a good defensive coach who will put people in the right spots; is Hawes better than Sam athletically or quickness wise? No!! But we will see if he has it between the ears to buy in to what Collins will teach and it should be interesting.

bebopdeluxe reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 17 at 23:16

Glad to hear that there are some guys on this forum who are willing to give Collins a chance to take a TWENTY-TWO year old kid (who has 118 NBA starts, BTW) and see if he can rediscover what the guy was supposed to be when he came into the league - a good shooting/passing 7-footer with decent hands, low-post potential and some shotblocking ability.

If it doesn't work, it's not like we're giving up Jrue to take a test-drive.

If we don't trade Thad for a young defensive big I might feel differently, but until we see that Hawes is a complete waste-case, I like the move.

Hawes' low-post game is meaningless to me. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't defend. He's basically somewhere between Smith and Speights, and that's not a good place to be.

Man does this trade bother me. I'm not as big of a Daly fan as I used to be, but I just don't get this trade. We got rid of our only good interior help defender and our only good rebounder. For what? What do these guys bring to the table that we don't already have? I guess the only glimmer of hope for this trade is that Hawes has some untapped potential We haven't seen yet. I doubt it.

Philly.com has a poll asking if this trade was a good idea. As of 6:30 central time, over 4200 people have answered the poll and the results are over 85% positive. Right or wrong, this move apparently is viewed very favorably by the fans and that should be more important than the views of any blogger and his small group of followers.

ojr107 reply to paul on Jun 17 at 19:40

I disagree. The people on this board are EXTREMELY knowledgeable about basketball. The average voter on that message board probably watched 1 game last year.

Or the taste in their mouth from the end of the 2009 season is still (surprisingly) fresh. Remember, most talk show fans didn't think it was possible he'd be on the team in 09/10.

paul reply to ojr107 on Jun 17 at 20:27

Whatever the people on this board may or may not know, their opinions are not nearly as important as the overall feelings of the fan base about the Sixers team management. If this trade is viewed favorably by the overwhelming majority of fans, that may actually provide some fan enthusiasm going forward. Any trade that is viewed favorably by over 85% of the fans (granted, the sample isn't random but it has over 4,000 respondents) is a de facto good one. Period.

ojr107 reply to paul on Jun 17 at 20:36

There's no way Spencer Hawes/Nocioni will make fans enthusiastic. At all. They are two role players who were locker room problems, who's games are unexciting.

Plus, this poll you are siting is in no way scientific, lets not give it to much credibility. The Sixers media people could have voted 10,000 times in that poll for all we know.

AaronMcKie4MVP reply to ojr107 on Jun 17 at 20:45

they are excited about getting rid of an overpaid stiff. people get very angry when guys get paid 12 bucks and have a bad attitude . an average guy making 50k doesnt like a bunch of millionaires finishing with the 7th worst record

Agreed. They're happy about dumping Dalembert much more so than the players received in return. They're just happy that he's gone and the team is getting a couple of players who may be able to make significant contributions. Nevertheless, whether fans are happy for positive or negative reasons, they're still pleased by this move from the Sixers head office.

paul reply to ojr107 on Jun 17 at 22:11

Scientific or not, I don't think you'd see those kind of lopsided approval numbers (not to mention the sheer volume of responses so quickly) in a newspaper poll for any other recent Sixers trade. You might have seen those kinds of numbers for Chris Webber if they had been able to trade him.

This isn't politics where you have large online partisan sites telling their members to go answer an online poll in a partisan way. Most people answering sports polls would likely be free agents giving their honest opinion. My guess is that the anti-Dalembert bias (if there is one) in the poll wouldn't be more than about 10 to 15%. Undoubtedly the overwhelming majority of fans are glad to see him gone.

Hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of sports fans are complete idiots.

paul reply to Brian on Jun 17 at 22:56

"Hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of sports fans are complete idiots."

Well, there's nothing in that statement that screams "genius." There's an old saying. Stupid people are like crazy people. They think everyone else but them is crazy.

deepsixersuede reply to paul on Jun 17 at 19:46

I can!t believe the negative response and I like Sammy. Hawes will get to prove it this year so we will see.

"I can!t believe the negative response and I like Sammy. Hawes will get to prove it this year so we will see."

Yeah, some of the comments were choice. I think my favorite was:

"Wow! Even Turner shows up in Philly and puts on a Sixers practice jersey and they immediately trade Sammy. Man, this kid can do it all and we haven't even drafted him yet!"

Dalembert was a known quantity and a losing option. Pure and simple. Everyone always talked about his 'low basketball IQ' but they almost never mention that fact that he often left the country the day the season was over & did next to nothing in the offseason to improve his entire career. Combined with his generally suspect attitude and questionable work ethic during the season, I am not sad to see him go one bit.

Hated watching him tease you with a solid half here or 2-3 solid games there only to disappear for long stretches of the season. My bet is that no one on the coaching staff or his teammates will be sad to see Dalembert go either.

After this trade, I still think the Sixers would just have better off though letting Dalembert play out his last year than a 'change for change' sake trade which this clearly was.

Frankly, the one guy I really wanted them to move this season was Williams. Another guy who has a shitty attitude, lousy work ethic, and hasn't shown any growth on the defense end in 5+ years.

paul reply to Bob75 on Jun 17 at 20:38

"Frankly, the one guy I really wanted them to move this season was Williams. Another guy who has a shitty attitude, lousy work ethic, and hasn't shown any growth on the defense end in 5+ years."

Well, ya never know. The real off season hasn't even started yet. I'd like to see Williams somewhere else, too.

Dr. Lang on Jun 17 at 20:52

Hawes does remind me of Tim Duncan.

smh1980 reply to Dr. Lang on Jun 17 at 21:00

Maybe Tim's retarded kid brother, Spencer Duncan lol. Just kidding but Duncan is a HOF player. Maybe how they both look somewhat stiff!

I think that this trade was a message to the team. Collins has talked to Iggy and I think Collins has a good enough read on Sammy to say "GET HIM OUTTA HERE".

This is much like the Abreu trade (Addition by Subtraction), even though it seems like JohnEMagee would have liked Abreu to stay.

We the fans don't know exactly what these players say or do everyday. We know enough that the entire team was mad that Sammy was not fined for showing up late every other day under E Jordan's reign. If players are not accountable then you cannot build the proper mindset it takes to build a tight-nit group. It can't happen.

This move has Collins written all over it. He wants players who he feels (maybe not the general public) have a chance to be players who can play on a strong playoff team and players who can play as part of a championship caliber team. Collins doesn't even know at this point, not until he gets them into the gym. But I think that Collins is confident that he can accurately measure player's ability to see if these two players will be a part of our future. Maybe Collins only had his eye on one of the two that he wants here long term.

We all know that Sammy was not here after February 2011. What did people really expect in return for Sammy or his expiring contract? I'm curious as to what would be fair compensation in everyone's eyes.


johnrosz reply to smh1980 on Jun 17 at 22:20

Abreu was a really good player. Not fair to compare Sammy D to Abreu. The success post Abreu had a lot more to do with the emergence of Howard and Utley as perennial MVP candidates than the subtraction of a yearly .400 OBP and 100 RBI

Sammy D was traded, what a great day in the life of a long suffering Sixers fan. Yes he was a good rebounder somehow even though he didn't box out and he was also a good shot blocker although he probably led the league in goaltending over the past couple of seasons. But he was also;

The dumbest player in the history of the nba.

The worst outlet passer, possible in the history of the nba.

Over the past 5 season had the worst to to assist ratio in the nba for anyone that played more then 20 minutes aa game.

Last to the gym, first to leave.

want to talk about getting tough? this this guy is one of the biggest pussies in the league.

Sammy D, as the saying goes step into my office cuz your fukn fired

johnrosz reply to The Greek on Jun 17 at 22:33

He wasn't really a pussy. Always played through injury, would try his best to match up with the leagues best big men. He just had a fragile psyche, no desire to get better. Had all the tools to mold himself into an elite center, just didn't care. Wouldn't say he was a pussy though, just very, very lazy.

The Greek reply to johnrosz on Jun 17 at 23:08

The reasons that I call him are pussy are:

He rarely if committed any hard fouls.

In his entire career I never saw him get any of his teammates "backs"

When turkoglou got in his face, Sammy kissed him.

Dwight Howard threw an elbow that could have killed him and what does he do the next time that he runs into him in Orlando during a summer league game? He ran over and hugged him. Not exactly charles oakley stuff.

But I respect your opinion though, this is just mine.

bebopdeluxe reply to smh1980 on Jun 17 at 23:24

Great post. Collins wanted a clean slate. Hawes is a 22-year-old 7-footer with almost a season-and-a-half of NBA starts under his belt and he is a MATERIAL upgrade on the offensive end over Sammy. There was no future with Sammy...there MAY be a future with Hawes.

Still expecting Thad to bring another big, though.

Hawes is a putrid offensive player. He has a long way to go to be average.

AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Brian on Jun 18 at 6:47

putrid offensive? now you are just being spiteful

Dalembert was just like Sports Illustrated. He shows up once a week. Charles Shackleford anyone ?

Hey, lay off.

Sorry, meant for that to say "Charles Shackelford" as my name...Please, feel free to bash him.

Jason Mess on Jun 17 at 23:09

Sorry for not reading my post better I did mean "Jrue" not "Drue".

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