DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan

All  

Sixers

, all the time

Pressing Questions - 6/18

user-pic
johnrosz on Jun 18 at 10:52
+/-

For those of you still under the delusion that the pick will be anyone but The Villain, hopefully this dispels those thoughts. Dei reporting that Evan Turner will be wearing number 1.

"At least the city will likely embrace the man taking over Dalembert’s uniform number. You heard it here first, Evan Turner will be the next player to wear No. 1 on a Sixers jersey."

user-pic
Myleskong on Jun 18 at 11:04
+/-

1 to 3 all rebound well for their positions and there shouldn't be alot of player driving by them to the hoop.

user-pic
Jason Mess on Jun 18 at 11:05
+/-

Is this considered a deep draft for 4's and 5's. It seemed like a lot guys who's defense and rebounding will translate well to the NBA.

Seems you can skew stats any way to support your argument. How bout this---Look at Iggy, Jrue and 9 RPG Turner(college). Would that not be one of the top rebounding trios from the back court and SF position ? Doesn't that mean anything to you ? or do all of those positions disappear when a shot goes up ?
Lets also keep in mind, again. We are in June. JUNE. The draft hasn't even happened yet. I trust we may be making a move for a defensive PF/C soon. Even without that--you contradict yourself here. On the one hand you say you want the young guys to gain experience and get better and on the other hand you seem pissed that they did something to make the team arguably worse next year. Next year is rebuilding, pure and simple. These moves are long term, not short term. I don't give a damn about short term as long as they are moving in the right direction, and I believe they are. Don't you think that the past decade of mediocrity screams for SOME type of rebuilding effort at some point ? Sometimes you need to take a step back to step forward. And honestly--if the team doesn't make another move outside of drafting turner they will still win 40 games--even without the -hated on this blog endlessly until he was traded- Dalemburt. As far as Hawes is concerned...seems to me this guy had awesome write ups coming out of college--(much like another big man you are in love with in THIS draft). So hes been in the league a few years in a horrible situation. Maybe he gets better here...maybe. If not---we don't resign him. No loss. Like it or not he has size and talent...you can get bigger and stronger. You cant teach the natural basketball IQ and offensive talent this guy has. (based on reports). Maybe Collins can turn him around. If not...hes gone next year. Its worth a shot.


user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to Gdog on Jun 18 at 11:44
+/-

I totally agree, a one year tryout for a guy that better realize this may be his last chance, but unlike Sam it isn!t 8 years into his career and he may turn it around.

How much is skill versus scheme? How confident can we be in these particular numbers under Eddie Jordan versus Doug Collins? Just curious.

Good news. All of those players defensive rebounding rates will jump by default now that Sam is gone.

Bad news, the Sixers overall def reb rate will suffer.

I counting on the Sixers following this trade up with another move to bring in a young defender/rebounder. On the flip side I'm not Stefanski's biggest fan, and am unsure he can ever put together a winning, defensively solid team.

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Jun 18 at 12:07
+/-

If the decision making was put on a scale of 1 to 10 how much input is Collins getting?

I have no idea. i'm sure he views Nocioni as a good tough vet (despite his lousy contract.) Overall I think Collins agreed with dumping Sam because he probably undermines his coaching. But you'd think Collins will be screaming for a legitimate interior defense. Unless he sees something in Hawes, Speights and Brand that we don't see.

My only solace is looking at OKC. Somehow they manage to be a great defensive team without anyone at PF or C. Smoke and Mirrors I guess?

user-pic
Myleskong reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 18 at 15:13
+/-

7

So Favors showed up out of shape to the Nets workout? To the team most likely to draft him. Really? Smoke signal from the Nets or a red flag?

So if the Dalembert trade puts us below the luxury tax (or close enough to get there), does that increase ownership's willingness to build this team the 'right' way? Take our time, develop the young core. Not make it about putting butts in the seat this year.

Also, why announce this trade a few hours before Game 7 of the Finals? Trying to hide it from national media scrutiny among the noise from the Finals?

user-pic
rchap13 reply to Brian T on Jun 18 at 15:12
+/-

Where did you hear that?

I wouldn't be all that concerned with the rebound #'s of the front court.


Take a look at the Nets from their Finals run.

2003 Nets DREB%
C) Collins: 13.9
PF) Martin: 20.7
SF) Jefferson: 14.4
SG) Kittles: 11.7
PG) Kidd: 15.1
Bench
C) A.Williams: 13.9
PF) R.Rogers: 17.7
SF) Scalabrine: 15.9
SG) Harris: 9.8
PG) A.Johnson: 8.8

They traded Van Horn and MacCulloch for Mutombo and still went to the Finals even though Mutombo got hurt and missed most of the year.

Iguodala is basically Jason Kidd, and you're adding another backcourt player that rebounds very well in Evan Turner. The rest of the bigs will average more rebounds with Dalembert out of the way, that's how rebound statistics work, they don't correlate to ability 100%. Kidd was practically averaging a triple double before getting traded to Dallas a few years back, and his rebounding took a huge hit because he went from a team where he was the best rebounder (playing with Jason Collins will do that) to a team where he was maybe the 4th best rebounder.

Also, guys, I'm curious... why did you pick Doug Collins to be an uptempo coach?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/collido01c.html

His teams are traditionally bottom three in pace factor.

87 Bulls: 23rd of 23
88 Bulls: 23rd of 23
89 Bulls: 23rd of 25
96 Pistons: 28th of 29
97 Pistons: 28th of 29
98 Pistons: 25th of 29
02 Wizards: 27th of 29
03 Wizards: 26th of 29

I'm not imagining this, am I?

Who said Doug Collins was picked to be an uptempo coach?

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jun 18 at 15:00
+/-

Told the Kings only paid $750,000 of Dalembert's $1.8 million trade kicker to make it work under cap rules. Dalembert could've killed the trade by refusing to accept less, but he approved it.

Well, I tried looking up where I read Collins wanted to be uptempo but instead got a quote that he wanted to be "younger and faster". That doesn't mean uptempo. Jordan/Pippen were pretty young and fast. Ditto for Grant Hill and Allan Houston. Even Collins' Wiz teams had Jordan with Rip Hamilton and then Jordan with Jerry Stackhouse.

In short, there's no way the Sixers don't draft Evan Turner, as Collins has coached two perimeter stars at every coaching stop. They're still going to be a team that takes it's time on offense however.

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jun 18 at 15:05
+/-

Collins on the trade Friday: "I just look at the landscape of the team and figured how were the pieces fitting. Obviously, I never was here to coach Sam or anything like that. Just watching the dynamics of how it all fit, I feel like every one of our big guys is skilled offensively. They can all shoot. I think that’s a great thing to be able to do. Now you’ve got four interchangeable big guys. Do you lose some rebounding and shot-blocking? Yeah, probably. But chemistry changes and dynamics change. I think it’s good sometimes when guys change (places). I think it’s going to be great for Sam to go out to Sacramento and get a fresh start. Any time a team trades for you, you know they want you."

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jun 18 at 15:17
+/-

Collins on the trade: "It changes the dynamics a little bit for Elton Brand because I was thinking I might have to play Elton Brand strictly at the five because I didn’t think he and Sam played well together. Now, I feel Elton can play with Hawes and he can play with Speights. It changes the dynamics of that. I think it gives us a chance to play a bigger lineup that I’m more comfortable with."

I ran three simulations with my NBA 2K10 ratings & tendencies. Sixers missed playoffs twice and made playoffs once (7th seed, swept by Cleveland). That's probably the best you could hope for from this team.

Here's the stats they put up (pts/reb/ast)
Speights: 12/6/1 (25 mpg)
Brand: 11/6/1 (28 mpg)
Iguodala: 15/7/5 (38 mpg)
Turner: 15/6/4 (32 mpg)
Holliday: 9/2/4 (28 mpg)
Bench
Hawes: 5/5/1 (16 mpg)
Young: 9/4/1 (22 mpg)
Nocioni: 5/2/1 (13 mpg)
Green: 3/1/1 (9 mpg)
Williams: 9/2/3 (21 mpg)
Smith/Kapono/Meeks: out of rotation
Carney/Iverson/Elson: free agents

I think that's pretty realistic pending anymore moves. Turner posted similar stats to Iguodala but was a better scorer on a per minute scale.

TS%
.564 Williams
.553 Speights
.534 Brand
.533 Kapono
.532 Nocioni
.523 Green
.523 Holliday
.523 Young
.520 Iguodala
.510 Turner
.509 Smith
.501 Hawes

Those are actually all very realistic TS% numbers and right in line with their 2010 performances.. I'd expect Turner to be a little higher, but it's not terrible since he doesn't have much of a 3pt stroke right now.

Regarding Collins thoughts, I generally agree. Brand is solid from the high post but isn't the mid-range factor that Speights or even Hawes is. Playing with a zero like Dalembert on the offensive end is what allows teams to collapse onto Brand when he's posting. The Sixers are not a good shooting team 1-3 so they could certainly use the shooting touch at center DOES help.

I asked Collins about this today at the Favors/Cousins workout, and he said that it would have to be rebounding by committee, and that he likes how many guards/wings we have who can rebound and ignite the break. He said we can't be leaking out on defensive rebounds. Give me 5 and I'll get the exact quote.

"You have to rebound by committee. As I said before, we're not going to do one thing and everything's going to go away. Can Elton Brand rebound the ball? Sure. Andre Iguodala's going to go back and rebound the ball, we've got to have our forwards rebounding, we've got to go back and do that as a team. At the end of the day, we're not going to have a guy who's going to get you, like a Dwight Howard, who's going to lead the league in rebounds, and we can say 'you know what, you can leak out on the break'. We can't do that. So we're going to have to get the ball, but what I like about our team is we have guys who can rebound the ball who can turn and push the ball, and we can get right into the open court, and I think that's critical. We're going to have guys who can run the wings, we're going to have guys who can all handle the ball, so we're going to be dependent on just throwing the ball to Jrue Holiday or whatever to run your offense. We feel good about that we're going to be a team that's going to be a little bit more multifaceted."

Thanks Derek. You're missing a "not" in the Jrue sentence I think.

Bah, you're right.

Collins' interview is up on the Sixers' website on nba.com here.

His mindset seems to be just as we all thought (and some of us feared): (1) Hawes is more offensively "skilled" than Dalembert, (2) the trade helped them offensively but hurt them defensively, (3) Nocioni is "one of the toughest players in the NBA."

The bit about Brand and Dalembert not meshing well was new to me and might have some truth to it. When Brand gets doubled, he's usually only able to make the direct-line-of-sight pass to someone for a jumper. That helped little if Dalembert was the one receiving the pass. However, Hawes wasn't great last year either on jumpers (eFG of 39%). But it does sound like Collins is optimistic about being able to teach Hawes to be a better player.

user-pic
The Greek reply to Statman on Jun 18 at 16:44
+/-

But wait the resident blog idiot jemagee says that noncioni isn't tough. I just don't know if I should believe him or Doug Collins.. lol

"toughness" that doesn't yield results isn't worth all that much.

user-pic
The Greek reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 18 at 17:01
+/-

In the end the bottom line is that Sam would not have been around when we turned this thing around. At least Hawes has a chance, and Noncioni is better then your giving him credit for.

I didn't say otherwise. I'm not against trading Sam because he wasn't in our long term plans and I think Hawes is young enough with enough skill that he's at least worth taking a gamble on.

I'm not in love with Nocioni, though. He was fairly worthless at Sacramento.

user-pic
The Greek reply to Derek Bodner on Jun 18 at 17:38
+/-

Agreed he was worthless on Saco but it was a shit show there. He was a good player for the bulls and lit it up in the playoffs if I recall.

user-pic
JohnEMagee reply to The Greek on Jun 18 at 18:02
+/-

Let me ask you something you good for nothing douche twat racist.

Do you think that Doug Collins would have said 'Andres Nocioni is on the wrong side of 30 and a flopping whiny puss tard, but comcast needed to save 3 million dollars so they traded for him' if he thought it was true?

God I hope you're sterile

user-pic
The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 18 at 18:13
+/-

lol Magee don't get your panties twisted, at least I called you this blogs village idiot. Over there on the sacromento blogs yesterday they were referring to you as liberty ballers resident idiot. How do you like getting bullied? This is what you do to others, doesn't feel good does it? You may go now.

user-pic
paul reply to The Greek on Jun 19 at 11:31
+/-

Why bother? While uncouth blowhards like this feed on others' dislike of them, they quickly wither when simply ignored.

user-pic
The Greek reply to Statman on Jun 18 at 16:48
+/-

Statman, if Collins can teach these guys how to play defense then the good times will be coming. The good times that we the fan base deserves.

from the end of deis csnphilly article

At least the city will likely embrace the man taking over Dalembert’s uniform number. You heard it here first, Evan Turner will be the next player to wear No. 1 on a Sixers jersey.

with this and the sixers.com picture i think evan turners a lock

user-pic
The Greek reply to paul on Jun 19 at 15:02
+/-

Hell yes, it's about time that someone wears the number with some pride. Evan Turner will become the leader that we always wanted Iguodala to become. The sooner this becomes Jrue's and Evan's team the sooner the good times start rolling.

Don't forget that Iggy and Turner can rebound the bell well at the 3 and 2 spot!

It was imperative to move Sam. He didnt respond to any coaches that were here. The players coach--(Cheeks), the hall of fame coach(larry brown), or anybody in between.
Collins didnt need to be undermined by a guy his first year on the job who apparently wont respond to anyone. Nocioni will be a good role player for us--Im sure hes thrilled to leave Sack-town and the Magoofs. If Hawes is ever going to be good this is it--its a contract year for him. He either responds and shows he can be a center in this league or he can forget the NBA and play overseas. I love guys in their contract year. If they are worth anything, this is where they show it.
So now we have two expiring contracts, one this year(hawes) and one next year(nocioni). We may have less money if we just kept Sam but its not like any big name free agents next year are coming here anyway(Carmelo).
Why would a guy who can get a max deal anywhere come to a team that is rebuilding ?
Smart trade for the sixers.


user-pic
Turtle Bay on Jun 18 at 20:34
+/-

Brian, Being a fan of Favors for a while now, how do you feel about the reports coming from multiple workouts that he isn't in shape? You had a major issue with Cousins' conditioning, and now Favors is saying he struggled with conditioning his entire season at Georgia Tech. It seems to be a continuing issue. Does this concern you?

Brian, where are you??? We need another entry! I am bored out of my mind and want to hear more insight about my beloved Sixers.

user-pic
deepsixersuede on Jun 19 at 9:54
+/-

Derek, if you are out there,, are team needs used in the latest draftexpress mock? A lot of movement with Anderson dropping along with Whiteside and Cousins going #6. Monroe makes sense with Sammy and J.Thompson in Sac., a good mix of skills.

user-pic
eddies' heady's on Jun 19 at 11:23
+/-

1 Loser down....a few more to go.

The detoxification has begun...FINALLY!

Who's gonna shoot pregame three point and half court shots now?

Change just for change's sake isn't always good. But in this particular case, it is ummm-ummmm good.

Love the guy as a person and his selfless heart.

But the player? What a waste of 7' genetically freakish basketball vagabond. Not one post move developed in 10 years of college/pro ball. No IQ on guarding high pick and rolls. One of the very few players to have both hands of stone and butter fingers. A soccer player whose growth spurt fooled him and others into thinking he was a baller. NOT!

No more 4 on 5 when on offense...FINALLY!

The radiation machine has began to proscribe the cancerous cells.

While I ride you hard management, I must send out a HUGE Thanks(!) for nothing more than just STARTING the long process of the path back to respectability. (I Hope!)

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 19 at 11:35
+/-

very well said. losers need to go. no matter how much value and defense that brian and magee think someone brings, i dont think they understand the genetics of winners and losers. sammy is a loser. there is no place for him in a city of high expectations. go strive for 40 wins somewhere else.

you forgot 1 question- what will the kid do that used to bring sammy his cheese pretzel at halftime ?

user-pic
eddies' heady's reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jun 19 at 12:17
+/-

He'll just give it to Speights robust self but with double the cheese.

user-pic
The Greek reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 19 at 14:31
+/-

I am in total agreement with both of you and anyone else who realizes that we need to gut this team of it's losers. Next to go has got to be Louser Williams.


You can give away all the losers you want. But if you don't have superstars you are not winning.

I would argue nobody is a bigger "loser-" than Artest, and he just got a ring (compare Artest to Sam.) And Gasol and Odom got criticized for years for being losers who are either soft or give no effort.

But you put Kobe and Gasol on a team, and all of the sudden everyone gets in line with the program. Its a stars league. The rest is all a distraction.

user-pic
The Greek reply to tk76 on Jun 19 at 21:03
+/-

Yes Tk, but since we don't have any superstars we need on concentrating on getting rid of our shitbags. Sammy was step one.

No doubt Sam was gone sometime between now and next summer. I just wish I felt more confident they will be replacing the positives he brought, without bringing back the negatives (overpaid, poor attitude/un-coachable and inconsistent.)

Unfortunately, on the Kings Nocioni was overpaid with a bad attitude. And Hawes was seen as resistant to coaching and working on his game, and was seen as a know it all.

Of course, I did not expect anything more in return for a nefative value player like Sam. But as I've said, I'm just more concerned about the remaining Sixers frontcourt. Sort of like being worried about PG's when Miller walked. But their is no Jrue equivalent in the wings... at least not yet.

Turner has an excellent shot at being that superstar.

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jun 19 at 13:11
+/-

Sixers liked Wesley Johnson's individual workout and interview Saturday. Collins called him "impressive and charismatic."

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jun 19 at 14:40
+/-

As for the idea that the Sixers have a glut of small forwards with a roster featuring Andre Iguodala, Andres Nocioni, Thaddeus Young and Jason Kapono, Collins said Nocioni — and perhaps Young — should play a lot of power forward. He also likes the idea of competing for spots.

“When you win 27 games, you do not have too much of anything,” Collins said.

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Tom Moore on Jun 19 at 14:47
+/-

i like the idea of throwing a bunch of ball players on teh court and seeing what happens. at least it will be exciting - jrue/turner/Iguodala/Young/Hawes. dont be quick to dismiss these guys just yet. could be pretty exciting.

im from the school who prefers derek fisher to eric "worst starting pg fast break runner in nba history" snow. dont care what the larks thing, fisher gets it done

user-pic
The Greek reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jun 19 at 15:16
+/-

Fisher is a winner, and tough. Those are 2 qualities that a lot of our fan base either don't recognize or have forgotten. Anyone who disputes Noncioni's toughness and begs for the day's of Sammy is a Lark.

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to The Greek on Jun 19 at 15:50
+/-

Your in a hell of a spot, liking Nucioni and Thad; who takes who!s minutes?

user-pic
The Greek reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 19 at 15:55
+/-

Suede I'm thinking that either Thad or Iggy will be traded before the season starts. Heck even Nocioni for that matter.

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to The Greek on Jun 19 at 16:09
+/-

It sounds like Collins likes Nucioni so my money is on Thad, who if moved hopefully gets a good situation.

Sorry Greek, not trying to pick a fight with you tonight, but I disagree.

Nocioni is physical, and fouls people. He once was a solid defender, now he is just a hack. Like the guy at the YMCA (local gym) who wears knee pads, and head band and likes to hack people acd act tough. More like faux tough. Reminds me of Matt Harpring. Physical, yes. Annoying yes. Good defender? Maybe in his prime.

Look at PER. If 15 is average, Nocioni was horrible compared to his man last year.

At SF: Nocioni: 11.4; Opponent: 19.3 (Thad's opponent 19.4)
At PF: Nocioni: 13.8; Opponent: 17.6

So Nocioni's man produced like a star. And you can't blame it on his team- Cassipi was a much more effective defender at SF (opp 15.4), even though he played 1st team opponent. Although all of the Kings got burned at PF (because they lacked a legit defensive center...)

BTW, 4 years ago, when he was an effective player in his prime on the Bulls his PER numbers were about 4pts net better (+2 himself, -2 opponents.) But he was 27 that year. 4 years means a lot.

user-pic
The Greek reply to tk76 on Jun 20 at 10:05
+/-

Tk, it's all good dude unlike Magee I won't throw a hissy fit if you disagree with me.

Look I know that numbers are important, but that Saco situation was a fukfest. I always like Noncioni, and at worst he will be very tradable come next season.

If Collins could get through to Hawes and get him to play defense then we will all be thrilled. He shot 49% inside of the arc in the past 2 seasons, and when he adds that strength his low post game will prosper. I watched a lot of his games in college, he does indeed have a good low post game and he is an excellent passer and shooter complimented by his ambidextrous hooks.

Sammy D was a cancer and I'm glad that he is gone. That guy shouldn't have been allowed to get within 50 yards of Jrue Holliday.

Perfectly stated and agree 100%

Stefanski said in his 6/15 nba.com chat that he still sees Young mainly as a small 4. I can see Thad and Nocioni getting a bunch of minutes there with an undersized lineup.

When Sammy's D was on...it was on and the team had a great shot at winning. Unfortunately he wasn't consistent. One night he would put up 20 points, 18 boards and 5 blocks and the next he would put up 6 points, 6 rebounds and 5 personals. Hawes might turn out to be a scrub but I'm gonna try to stay patient....the whole process of turning around this organization will not happen overnight. Let's say for argument's sake that Turner is the pick. If he blossoms into a perennial All-Star with Jrue over the next 2-3 years, the possibilities are endless. Philly will become a premier destination in the league for free agents. That means the chance to not only pick up a big time free agent but the ability to round out the roster with valuable, championship caliber role players. Jrue, Turner, Iggy (maybe) + Free agent big + Deep Bench = Championship.

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jun 19 at 21:24
+/-

There's a chance the Sixers could be using some real small lineups, such as Iguodala, Young/Nocioni at the 4 and Brand at the 5. Rebounding and interior defense would be concerns with that group.

Good interview with Spencer Hawes. He said his number one concern is getting stronger this summer so he can be more effective in the post.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/teams/sixers/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10119684

Well he said all of the right things.

I do understand what the team is trying to do with this deal (both financially and on the floor.) I'm not really sold, but I'l give them a chance to prove themselves one way or the other.

Here's to rebounding/interior defense by committee! At least we've seen the last of Sam, so more more celebrating goaltends of game winning shots. And maybe by the time Brand is gone there will be some capable bigs in place to go with the team's fantastic core at PG/SG/SF.

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP on Jun 20 at 10:24
+/-

this team has needed a good house cleaning for years. if we are going to compete in the Iguodala regime, we need more than a guy that blocks shots and pulls meaningless defensive boards.

jrue i know will be a top 20 player in the league, turner can possibly be a top 20/30 player as well. iguodala is probably top 30. i think when we re-evalute the Sixers in Brnad's final albatross year, we will have 3 top 30 players. how many teams have 3 top 30 players?

sammy is small potatoes, and its troubling that you guys think he did so much for the team. Crunch all the stats you want about defense and rebounding. we get stronger in other areas after this trade. what is the net/net in number of wins? are we flat ? -2 ? even ? i dont think it makes us significantly better or worse. the next 2 seasons are rebuilding



At a minimum, we've addressed the Sammy issue one year early AND have a candidate in house(hawes) who can be let go if he flunks his audition this year.

Jrue will be a top 20 player in the league?


Will he ever even be a top 20 player at his position?

user-pic
The Greek reply to Rashidi on Jun 20 at 11:10
+/-

Will he ever be a top 20 player at his position? Are you serious? Were talking about Jrue Holliday right?

user-pic
Dutch reply to The Greek on Jun 20 at 17:21
+/-

+1

He's already top 14 or so in terms of PGs, independent of his stats, which were skewed by the EFJ regime.

By the end of the upcoming season, there's a very good chance people will be bringing up his name as top 7 or 8.

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Rashidi on Jun 20 at 21:36
+/-

easily one of the dumbest things EVER said on this sitr , and possibly anywhere

user-pic
deepsixersuede on Jun 20 at 11:31
+/-

I thought I would pass along a funny quote from another teams forum; " Cousins is 3 crispycream runs away from having bitchtits".

After reading today!s [Phila. Inquire] articles it is clear Sammy had to go, no matter what he did for the team. I hope Hawes can give this team M.Gminski like production at a decent value [ 8 mill. per?] over the next 5 years or so and like Gminski [Mahorn?] the proper p.f. is a must to pair with him. I don!t know Jru!s ceiling but he, Turner and Iggy should be a title contender trio in a few years hopefully so I hope they continue to find the right pieces to the puzzle.

user-pic
Old School Sixer Fan reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 20 at 19:30
+/-

I had always thought the best about Sammy initially been disappointed by the trade. However, after reading the articles today about the negativity surrounding him in the locker room, I guess he had to go and we were lucky to get anything for him.

There was negativity with Hawes in Sac, but he's young and maybe can be turned around in a new situation. Sammy wasn't going to change after 8 years of poor work attitude.

I understand that there is an argument for Favors. Still, I'm a little curious why we can't have three lockdown defenders on the perimeter and go from there. Iguodala grabs boards, Turner grabs boards, and Jrue will chip in. That would give us maybe the best defensive/defensive rebounding 1-3 in the league. I know that's not as helpful for rebounding as a good 3/4 is, but they will help the big guys. Rebounding is a team effort too.

Last season's numbers have to be skewed at least a little by Jordan's schemes. Doug Collins can coach defense so those numbers will improve. It's not like the Sammy trade kills us offensively either. Brand could get a lot more useful.

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to Rich on Jun 20 at 19:57
+/-

I actually think Turner at the 2 may offset what we lose between Sammy and Hawes in the rebounding department alone. I am higher on Hawes than most because he has an interesting skillset and may put opposing centers to work and pull them out to open driving lanes instead of them sitting back guarding Sammy.

Gminski was soft, so was Gasol but they must be guarded and how many centers in the league are dominant low post players. Even Dwight struggles to put up 25 pts. on any given night. I hope a cocenter can be brought in for those instances when a little more toughness is needed. Been looking at 2nd round prospects and maybe a tiny Gallon or Pittman fits for 15 to 20 minutes a night though a 1st round talent [Sanders] would be preferable.

After looking at Hawes profile on hoopdata.com I'd like to point out a couple of things...

2010 - 26.4 mpg/ 17.7 DRR
2009 - 29.3 mpg/20.9 DRR

This doesn't mean Hawes will be an excellent defensive rebounder when given more minutes, but it does suggest he is capable of rebounding better with starter's minutes.

As for his offensive game:

2010 FG% - 59.4% at rim, 46.7%

2009 FG% - 62% at rim, 39%

This information suggests a few things to me:
1.) He is inconsistent, probably due to him still developing as a player.
2.) His poorest shooting comes from 16-23 feet but that's fairly consistent with most other players, and decent for a center.
3.) He seems to be the most effective within ten feet of the rim.


Compare to Dalembert:
2009 - 24.6 mpg/ 29.1 DRR
2010 - 26 mpg/ 30.7 DRR

Offense FG% -
2010 - 67% at rim, 40.7 2009 - 59% at rim, 42%

We all know Dalembert lacked offensive game, but what was interesting was how this showed in the data. If you feel like seeing for yourself, check out the makes and attempts at each location as well as overall attempts. Hawes attempted about twice as many shots last year as Dalembert, of course hitting at a worse percentage. The difference here is that Hawes has a three point shot, attempts more shots away from the rim, and is more capable of hitting these shots. Working with a good coach would help him refine where he is best at shooting and which areas he should avoid.

I'm not even going to touch on the areas of rebounding - the numbers speak for themselves. I hope Collins knows what he is doing...

user-pic
Jeff reply to Jeff on Jun 20 at 23:29
+/-

Erg, for some reason all of the shot percentages didn't post correctly. I will try to post them again...

user-pic
Jeff reply to Jeff on Jun 20 at 23:36
+/-

Hawes:
2009 -
62%/rim
39%/ 44%/ 10-15ft
39%/16-23ft
52.2% eFG/three

2010 -
59.4%/rim
46.7%/ 31.6%/10-15ft
40%/ 16-23ft
44.9% eFG/three

Dalembert:

2009 -
59%/ rim
42%/ 40%/10-15ft
37%/16-23ft

2010 -
67%/ rim
40.7% / 35.6%/ 10-15ft
38%/ 16-23ft

user-pic
Jeff reply to Jeff on Jun 20 at 23:38
+/-

Ok, and once again I am left puzzled as to why the info didn't post correctly.
When listing the percentages,they should be categorized accordingly:
rim
10-15 ft
16-23ft
three

user-pic
Jeff reply to Jeff on Jun 20 at 23:40
+/-

between rim and 10-15 ft is "less than 10 feet"

ugh, sorry.

Three very big problems with your logic here:

#1: Hawes was a slightly better shooter than Dalembert from 16-23 feet last season. Neither guy should be shooting those shots, the fact that Hawes takes more is not a positive.

#2: Shooting below 30% from three means you shouldn't be shooting threes. It's not a weapon.

#3: Hawes never gets to the line. He actually gets to the line less than Sam did.

Another thing, we're comparing Hawes' jump shooting and offensive production to Sam Dalembert here, and even the most optimistic view has Hawes maybe slightly ahead. Doesn't that say something to you?

user-pic
deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 0:22
+/-

Any L.Aldridge siteings in Portland? I don!t think you can discount the fact he is younger than Thad and is far from a finished product. He has warts as far as attitude but after reading today!s stories on Sam it sounds like he had to go now rather than letting him expire.

Do you believe in the team defense and team rebounding concepts that Collins talks about?

I'd have to read specifically what he means. So far, all it says to me is, "We don't need good rebounders or defenders up front." I don't agree with that at all.

If the four and five are getting beaten consistently by their men, then you're going to have to double, and when you double, guys get open threes. A dominant defensive big can help cover for a weak perimeter defender. I don't think the opposite is true.

Rebounding is a different animal. I suppose if Collins can get Speights, Brand and Hawes to really work on boxing out, the perimeter guys can crash to clean up the boards. Not sure I believe that's going to happen though.

No Aldridge sightings, unfortunately.

user-pic
Jeff reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 0:37
+/-

Unfortunately, there are some problems with your interpretation of my logic. Allow me to explain...

I never said Hawes' three point shot was a weapon. I said he has a three point shot, as in, a three point shot exists. I never said Hawes should be shooting 16-23 foot jumpers either. However, I did say that working with the right coach would help him to refine where he is best at shooting. Perhaps he would have a better understanding of where and when he should take shots. Listing these percentages was more so to show how inconsistent he was, if anything. Finally, comparing him to Dalembert's offense, or lack thereof, was to show that he at least has some potential on the offensive end. If my original post didn't relay this well enough, my apologies.

Three years in the league, and we're talking about significant, significant improvement being needed for him to be an average offensive center, not to mention the rebounding and defense. I just don't see how any of his numbers are indicative of him being able to make that kind of leap, even if he wasn't lazy.

user-pic
Jeff reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 2:53
+/-

You are right in that he didn't make significant improvement. As I mentioned, the numbers alone from the past two seasons show inconsistency. This could be from a combination of poor effort, lack of ability, and poor coaching/system.
I'm at least going to give Collins, and the new team atmosphere a chance at improving his game before drawing any conclusions that he is a lost cause.


Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment


back-to-story.gif