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smh1980 on Jun 21 at 1:05
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Brian,

Did you see any proof that Brand and Sammy didn't play well together besides Brand's obvious down year? I do remember when he was coming off the bench that he had some big games for us last year when his legs seemed fresh. I just can't remember if it was playing alongside Sammy or Speights.

I'm trying to keep an open mind on the trade.

I'm not liking what I've been reading about Favors for the last week. He's out of shape and he even agreed. If being the 2nd pick in the draft isn't enough motivation then I don't know what is going to light his fire. All the other picks (including Cousins) have all been much more impressive and hungry for that 2 spot. I'm no longer advocating Favors for the 2nd pick after last week.

I saw Derek Bodner post Favors response to the report from Minny. Not sure what to make of it, haven't seen the original report yet. Cousins is a loon, I don't care what he has to say honestly.

Brand's offense wasn't great, but it wasn't nearly the problem with him last season. From my perspective, Sam had little to do with the problems. Maybe a five who could legitimately draw the opposing center out of the lane could open things up for EB, but Hawes isn't that guy. Like I said above, a 17-footer from Hawes is the outcome I'm hoping for when I defend the Sixers.

Collins' POV seems directly related to last season's on court/off court stats.

SammyD's on court/off court stats from last season look like this:

Minutes: On=2123 Off=1836

Offense Pts per 100 Poss. On=105.1 Off=108.4
Defense Pts. per 100 Poss. On=110.1 Off=113.5
Net Points per 100 Poss. On= -5.0 Off = -5.0

Those number give some support to Collins' argument that Sam's positive contributions on defense were mostly canceled out by his negative effect on the offense, compared to the other Sixer lineups last year that didn't feature him.

Speights On Court/Off court were bad because of his terrible effect on the defense. Brand, on the other hand, had a positive on court/off court from the center position and a negative one at PF.

Sam's on/off splits were very good in previous seasons, not that it matters.

I get why Collins would want him gone. I just think this was a stupid way to accomplish that. Like I said, they would've been better off cutting him or buying him out, then the money still comes off the books after this season and we aren't saddled with two scrubs who Collins has to play to make the trade look like a basketball decision.

For instance, in '08-'09 Sam was statistically much more effective than Ratliff and Speights whereas in '09-'10 he was still more effective than Speights but not as effective as Brand.

It's possible Sam's expiring could have been turned into more value, but I don't see a clear argument that this value would have been greater than the value of Nocioni's expiring the following year plus the chance that Hawes turns into a decent backup center with a decent backup center's contract. Some Kings fans analyzed his defensive problems as mainly related to one on one post defense.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2010/5/13/1470387/grading-spencer-hawess-defense

Given that he has decent length, speed, and agility, it's not a total long shot to think he could become a better post defender - good enough for a backup center - by improving his technique and conditioning.

I see the value equation of the trade as close enough to even not to get very excited in either a positive or negative way.

You glossed over the summation: "The data suggests Hawes is among the worst defenders in the league."

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speekeasy reply to Brian on Jun 22 at 0:10
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the more i've read about the trade the less i like it. I remember the series against the Magic a year ago and Sammy was one of the few guys in the league who could defend an elite big like Howard one on one. (of course the game 6 debacle against Gortat does shine some light on Sammy's lack of testicular fortitutde/effectiveness). I would have much rather bought sammy out or found some way to at least get a second round draft pick out of this trade. Whether we pick Turner or Favors (who's at least a year away from being an impact big) we're gonna get eaten up in the post and on the boards next year. But maybe thats a blessing in disguise. I think the 6ers need one more high draft pick (front court player) to have a legit shot to challenge for a chip down the road. I'd rather build through the draft a la the Thunder and then watch guys like Holiday, Turner/Favors, and a 2011 lottery pick develope into contenders than go for the quick fix. And another lottery season would get rid of Stefanski too (Elton Brand over Josh Smith... still kills me).

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eddies' heady's on Jun 21 at 2:15
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So as great as Sam was as a defender/rebounder and the max we could muster with him was 41 wins? In 8 too long years? Not exactly earth-shattering you know.

I agree he *may* have had more value closer to the deadline this year. But this is a new awakening for this franchise and him expressing loudly, with his mouth and his work ethic, not wanting to be here was more than enough writing on the wall. Cancer cells spread you know. They multiply. You've got to start the house cleaning somewhere. And either him or Lou should have been the first targets.

It's still way too early before next season starts. Just exhibit some patience and see what the finished product is in October. They said they were going to be aggressive and, polarizing or not, this was about all you could expect when factoring in him being on the market for 2 1/2 years and the trade kicker.

More moves are definitely on the way, whether by trade or free agency. Patience, not overreaction, is needed by all with Doug at the helm and now involved in personnel decisions. Optimist? Maybe. But what to expect after a year of pessimism just went through?

In this case, the cancer cell has suddenly multiplied from one to two. You're acting like we got good character guys in return.

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Court_visioN on Jun 21 at 2:41
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Your first question - who's the best player in the deal - is key. The Sixers obviously believe that Hawes can be a superior center to Dalembert, eventually. Hawes has said himself his number one priority this offseason is to bulk up, which is exactly what he needs, that will help him in the post offensively down the road, and it will probably increase his rebounding rates as well.

As far as Brand and Dalembert together - I do think they aren't great fits together, in that both are effective around the rim. Sure, Brand has a solid midrange jumper, but his range doesn't extend past the free throw line. This means the lane is not only clogged with 2 big men, it eliminates driving lanes for Jrue and Iguodala (and Turner?). With Hawes you have a much better passer at the 5 spot, and you can easily feed him the ball in the high post where you can run picks off of him - ultimately, there are a lot more things you can do offensively with a skilled passing center.

I understand definitely that there is going to be a hit defensively due to the loss of Dalembert, but keep in mind Nuggets fans said the same thing when Marcus Camby was given away to the Clippers for chump change. Bottom line is I'm willing to give Collins a chance to work with this team. The team hasn't mortgaged their future to get a lot of vets on this team so as long as the team keeps stockpiling young pieces that (at least in their minds) can help win a championship down the road, I'm willing to give the team some rope.

Cheer up, at least the Sixers are getting some buzz.

If they believe he'll eventually be a better center than Dalembert (which is an unbelievable long shot, btw), then this trade is worse than it appears because he's not going to be that this season and for the Sixers to keep Hawes longer, they're going to have to extend him and/or pick up his qualifying offer next summer, meaning they've probably completely replaced Dalembert's salary for next season with two bad bench players.

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zig reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 14:11
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hawes is heralded as a great passer in many scouting reports. also, passing centers like vlade divac and brad miller did not even break the 1 to 1 assist turnover ratio until a few seasons into their respective careers.

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zig reply to zig on Jun 21 at 14:12
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sorry replied to wrong comment

Forget about Hawes' shooting. I think the biggest value with Hawes is he's an excellent passer while Dalembert is just an offense stopper.

Yes it helps that he can shoot when left open, but let's not forget the value of being able to kick it out to the perimeter for a 3pt shooter. Better passing means better looks at the basket which one would hope means more shots going in the basket. With guys like Holliday, Iguodala, Young, etc on the perimeter, every half-second counts. Even Kapono has a slow release and needs a crisp pass. He's not worth using if he's only going to hit 36% of his shots due to a lack of quality looks.

Can you define and support the excellent passer claim? We're not talking about Vlade Divac here, we're talking about a guy with 1-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio for his career.

I also find it kind of funny that Collins started out talking about how this team needs to worry about defense first, and now all he's talking about is the offensive upgrade this stiff gives them.

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Jeff reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 3:21
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I happen to think more trades will occur in the future, and I'm not deriving my opinion from the philly.com article. This only makes sense.
I have a question:
1. Given that we just acquired Nocioni and Hawes, and it being doubtful that either of them will be traded off in the near future, who is most likely to be shipped off in a trade?

We are clogged at SF. I can't see any team taking Kapono (maybe around the trade deadline), so I would think Thad could be a potential candidate. I also think Lou could go as well.

Maybe Lou. He's got a salary big enough that a GM could put together a package of garbage horrid enough for Stefanski to bite.

I'm on the record of saying that i don't like the trade one bit. And i have backed your reasoning most of the times (including Favors). However, Brian, my problem with the trade is only because i think they could've gotten a better package near the all star break and because of the additional year in Nocionis' contract.
I respectfully disagree with some of your logic. Here is why:
- Nocionis' additional year is not a disaster because after resigning Thad, they wouldn't have had significant cap space anyway. And honestly improving your team through free agency almost never works towards building a champion (most of the bad contracts in the league happened because of free agency)
- Dalambert was a locker room problem and wanted to get out for years
- Dalamberts' defense was overrated. YES, he is one of the best rebounders (especially on defense) and shot blockers in the league. But his terrible BB IQ made him miss so many rotations and make bad decisions, that cannot be converted into stats.
- As for Hawes and Nocioni being chemistry problems i respectfully disagree. The Kings messed up with their bigs rotation so badly that anyone would've asked for a trade. Hawes as the longest tenured one finally cracked. There are no signs of him being a problematic teammate ever before going to Sacramento. And Nocioni, hated his transfer to the Kings from day one. Considering he is a guy that has toughness as his primary skill, and has a winning mentality of course you will have problems with the organization when you play less than 20min for one of the worst teams in the league. Which is why, you should the Nocioni from his Bulls days is the one that we got (i hope)
- Finally the most important question: Who got the best player in the trade? Right now it looks as if Dalambert is the best player in the trade. However, history has shown that young bigs (especially those who lack strength) need their time to develop. Experience coupled with the change of scenery can provide a major change in a young big. And Hawes is a year younger than Udoh, which you are a big proponent of and has many similar skills. And i disagree that Hawes is a jump shooter because he is not. He has plenty of post moves and can score around the basket in a variety of ways. The only reason he stepped outside to shot is because he didn't have the strength to fight inside (a lot of skilled big man have the same problem early on in their careers - e.g. Gasol played as a SF in his early days because of a lack of strength). And i think that is fixable over time. He was at least 3 years away ever since he was drafted, so don't understand the reasoning that he is a finished product. Especially cause Favors is probably 5-6 years away. If we follow this logic we will be bashing him like Dalambert in three years (in case we draft him).

As a final note, we got a high IQ big. That is a rarity this days. And of course it looks like we forgot that going young was the key step for us (instead of win at all cost). The trade did accomplish it.

Two big differences between drafting Udoh and trading for Hawes.

1. If you draft Udoh, you have four affordable seasons to develop him. With Hawes you have one somewhat affordable season, then you have to make an expensive decision on what to do with him.

2. I like Udoh for his shotblocking AND the things he brings on the offensive end. Hawes has never been a shot blocker, not even in college.

And I'm also not convinced they should re-sign Thad. If I had to make the decision right now, I'd let him walk. The last thing we need is two guys on Lou Williams-like contracts to be nothing more than offense off the bench. You can make that three if they extend Hawes, only the offense off the bench is questionable in his case.

I say they did the deal to stay iffy for one more year. One more year of lotto balls leads to one more big early in the draft, and voila, now they're rolling. It's just that Ed isn't the best GM, so he can't do the tank and gain assets like the Thunder did.

It's possible, but if they're in the lottery again next season, Stefanski won't be the GM.

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Tray reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 10:34
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Which is fine with me.

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speekeasy reply to Tray on Jun 22 at 1:03
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agreed

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deepsixersuede on Jun 21 at 7:35
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If Turner is coming this is the beginning of putting pieces that fit around him. I think you will change your mind when you see what Hawes brings offensively and see he is a better shotblocker than you think. He may even rotate better, we shall see, than Sammy because of better instincts on defense. Was Sam the better player when he was 22, I highly doubt it.

Did we lose 6.6 million? I thought we gained cap room this year with this move allowing for not giving away a young piece, if getting under the tax was a definite goal. Nucioni may prove valuable enough to earn his money this year and I believe when this season ends we will have gotten more overall value in the deal. Other than Favors and Cousins, I think Hawes has as much value as any other center in this draft.

Dalembert was a far superior in his second full season in the league (missed his second year to injury).

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Mike P reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 13:30
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He had more blocks and rebounds. Was he really FAR superior?

Hawes is more of a Miller/Okur type. It's apples and oranges.

Maybe we are just going to take Favors and then pair him up with Hawes. Brand comes off the bench, and maybe we even trade Iggy to get a pick and some more cap space and take someone like Wesley Johnson from the Warriors.

I'd be totally okay with that. A total commitment to rebuilding, we get our new defensive big, and a very young core.

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Anonymous reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 21 at 13:26
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I thought we gained cap room this year with this move allowing for not giving away a young piece,

There's a difference between cap room and being under the luxury tax. I don't believe the sixers gained any cap room, they just got under the luxury tax level, which seemed to be the goal (and would indicate also that using the MLE this off season is highly unlikely as it would put them back over the luxury tax level as I understand the usage)

This is right. The move may have put them under the lux tax for this season, won't know until 7/1. If getting under the lux tax was the primary goal, they had until Feb to accomplish it.

They aren't done trading. Calm down. It's not like team was going to do anything more then get to the first round and lose again anyway. Thus restarting the whole get a pick in the midteens and never be any better then a .500 team anyway.

I like the trade. Sammie averaged 9 and 8 and people are acting like he was Mutumbo. Do we have a center now? No, but who cares what do we really have? Name some of our assets on a champion team.

Our best player is a second or third option on a real team. The rest of the players have huge potential (Jrue), are who are they (Williams), may not get it (Speights and Thad), or are have contracts that kill any sort of effort to make the team better but have completely underperformed as well (Brand).

The team needs to be gutted. Williams needs to go, Speights needs to go, try to move Kapono too. Sammie has had a shitty attitude his entire career here in Philly. Why is everyone crying about losing a player who didn't even average a double double and has no offensive skills whatsoever?

If we don't trade for a center in the draft, start Hawes, Brand, Iggy, Turner, and Jrue. Let Hawes have his one year try out. He's 22 years old. If he doesn't figure it out, then we can let him go or sign him for cheap.

We got under the tax, got rid of a whiner, and are bound to make more moves.

I hope we trade Iggy for like the 4th pick and get Cousins. I can't wait to read the sob stories here about that. The site might just crash.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Mike P on Jun 21 at 8:37
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Great post. Sammy-as-Cookie Monster was a BIGTIME guffaw...

Again, for the cost of Nocioni's 2011-12 salary. we get a one-year flyer on a guy who COULD be our center of the future and we get rid of Sammy. Any with Noc on the roster, it is a LOT easier to move Thad if the right deal comes along on Thursday night. While Nocioni was a problem in SAC, I did not know that he was a locker-room cancer in CHI (you learn something new every day ...although I would appreciate any links that could be presneted that detail his cancer-causing hijinks in Chicago)...and I appreciate his ability to shoot the 3 and enforce the "no layups or dunks" rule around the basket.

Solid trade, IMO.

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speekeasy reply to Mike P on Jun 22 at 1:09
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"I hope we trade Iggy for like the 4th pick and get Cousins. I can't wait to read the sob stories here about that. The site might just crash."
- hilarious
- I'd do it (but its not gonna happen)

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Tom Moore on Jun 21 at 8:50
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Agreed Brian that it is really hard to argue in any way that this trade makes the 76ers a better defensive team next season or that it really improves their overall talent. I don't know if Nocioni/Hawes though as much the 'clubhouse cancers' as you make them out to be or if they were the clear downside of Dalembert. There wasn't a single 76ers' coach who was really able to connect with Dalembert.

My bet too is that not one of his teammates will be sad to see him go in the least. It is pretty clear that even though Green doesn't bring much that his teammates generally like him. You often saw Dalembert by himself in warmups and before the game. Maybe it was partly because he was somewhat of an introspective guy but I get the impression that his teammates thought he could be a pretty moody, sullen guy who was difficult to really connect with most times.

It really was a just a move to start a 'clean slate' PR campaign the Sixers are so trying to desperately make with Collins, draft, etc. Like any honeymooon, it will fade as this team is taking its share of likely drubbings by Jan.

The worst part about the trade though was that they had the 2nd year of Nocioni's 2nd year. If they had just taken on expiring contracts, it really would have kind of a 'no-harm, no-foul' because even if they had kept Dalembert they would have been a 7th/8th seed at best next year in the East.

First comment on this blog and think you guys have done great work but I think the analysis of this trade is pretty bad.

This trade is pretty much garbage in garbage out. Dalembert was gone after this year, so the Sixers saved salary this year and have more flexibility in using their MLE. They lose option of moving Sammy at the deadline and a potential greater return then, but I doubt that would be much, it's not like their getting a 1st rounder for him.

In return they get Hawes and Nocioni. Hawes seems about the kind of guy your gonna get for Dalembert and his small chance of breaking out into a decent starter seems like a good gamble. If they don't like what they see no big deal. Nocioni essentially spreads out Sammy's salary over two seasons and he'll be an expiring next year who is probably more valuable in a playoff scenario than Sammy D off the bench.

So basically the only reason you can hate this trade for the Sixers is if you think they could get more by waiting, otherwise I don't understand how this move can be viewed as a negative.

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Nick reply to freehat on Jun 21 at 11:52
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"[O]therwise I don't understand how this move can be viewed as a negative."

Because even though Dalembert mostly sucked he provided interior D. Now you don't have anyone who can defend the post.

Number 1: You're way too down on Nocioni.....he was an INTEGRAL part of the Bulls, an occasional starter and 6th man.....he's a better defender than you're giving him credit for regardless of stat quotient you'll throw out......and he's got a winning mentality, something sorely needed around here. I live in SF and trust me, the Kings and the McGoofs have been terrible for years, and make head scratching trade after trade with no clue how to build a successful franchise....another thing I think we can agree on is generally, a big takes waaaaay longer to develop than a guard...usually a 7 footer hasn't played against equal competition in HS or college and it takes a few years for them to figure out how to deal with crazy talent every night....also Hawes should be a senior in college...give him a break for gosh sakes or at least wait until he's 23 to call him a stiff.....and if I had to watch Dalembert practice 3 pointers for 20 minutes before a game again instead of working on ONE LOUSY LOW POST MOVE I'd throw up....though I was a proponent of keeping him solely for his ability to guard anyone one-on-one in the post.

Kind of off-topic, but I'm starting to think Lou would play very well with Turner. Lou can play the de facto 2 with Turner making decisions and Turner can guard the best player on the other end. I actually think a three guard rotation of Turner, Jrue, and Lou could be pretty good for most of the game.

I'm not sold on the Dalembert trade either way. The things I don't like is the spin that Nocioni's toughness brings great defense because he's actually a bad defender. If Sammy was a bad passer, Nocioni is probably worse. I'm hoping he can do one thing, shoot the three at a respectable clip. Then from a basketball standpoint the trade becomes at least useful. The fact that the money is really on the books for another year is bad, not terrible, because this team is not exactly one year away.

I do worry not only with rebounding though. Sam may have looked clueless, but he was a shot-blocker in the paint. So, first possession of the game, the opponent gets in the lane, and who is protecting the rim? Speights? That's going to be ugly.

This trade still is in line with Collins' coaching. He thinks he can whip anybody into shape defensively so dealing Sam wasn't a very big deal for him. Offensively, he likes to call plays and be very precise, where Sam is a disaster. He couldn't deal with running his offense with a guy who wouldn't be 100 percent there. He better be a magician defensively.

Favoring offense over defense is becoming a great tradition for the Sixers.

2: Dalembert was absolutely useless playing 20 minutes a game because he had enough trouble getting in the flow as a 35 minute starter......who want's to watch his sour face on the bench every night.....and Collins is right, Dalembert and Brand were totally shitty on the court together, especially Brand....whom, btw, has more left in the tank than you think, he was used in the worst possible way by BraceFace as well as bad-mouthed in the press by that Abomination starting very early in the year.....that was Bush-League and Brand deserved better than to have his work ethic question by a dork who has blown up every team he's coached.

Yikes, Hawes shot 61 threes last year, which was more than I remember. I looked at the Synergy and he shot 27 percent, but the opponents were leaving him there for a reason. All the shots were open and he really didn't look smooth shooting them.

Is Hawes just an excuse to give EB all the space he wants down low? From wanting to meet with him to this trade to wanting to take Turner, Collins is basically banking on the revitalization of Elton Brand. I don't know about that.

Who got the best player?
Kings got the best current player.

Who improved their overall roster?
Both teams did.
Sacramento picked up a defensive anchor
Sixers picked up a 22 year old center who has better post moves then anyone else on the roster.

Who bettered their financial situation?
Both teams did.
The Sixers got under the luxury tax for this year, saving Comcast an enormous amount of money.
The Kings unloaded a heavy salary for next year for a disconted player.
Did either team get rid of a problem in their locker room?
Both did. Sammy and Nocioni were problems.

I like Hawes, and he now has a year to prove in Philly that he can play.
And I think that with Holiday, Turner, Andre, Brand, and Hawes, we have a very interesting offensive team.

When I say financial situation, I'm not talking about making owners rich, I'm talking in salary cap terms.

And the Sixers have not improved their roster in any way, shape or form with this deal. Hawes should not be starting on this roster. The center position with Dalembert starting and Speights backing up is much, much, much, much, much better than with Speights or Hawes starting and the other backing up.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 13:59
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Who cares about who would have done a better job this year (Sammy or Hawes)? I don't.

Here's the question: who had a better chance of being a meaningful part of the 2011-12 Sixers - Sammy or Hawes?

There were probably 10-15 games last season where Sammy had a meaningful positive impact...whereas there were probably 2-3x the amount of games where he was a minutes-sucking, underachieving afterthought. I have no idea how much worse our lowpost D will be without Sammy, but I do know that 1) the flow of our offense will be LIGHTYEARS better and 2) every player on that roster now knows that they either get with the program (be on time, work hard, have a fucking clue when you are out on the court...you know, basic stuff like that) or you will either be on the bench or outta here.

Sweet.

Part of our difference of opnion may be Speights...
I do not think he will amount to much, honestly. I hope I am wrong, but his work ethic has been in question since college, and little improvement has been seen so far.

Hawes has alot of offensive talent, and he showed that in high school and college. He will never be a good rebounder, and not a great shotblocker either. If he gains some weight and gets stronger, he could become a better post defender, and he may already be better then Sammy on the pick and roll.

I will miss the intimidation factor Sam brought, though, to drivers in the lane. Just the fear of his shotblocking affected alot of players.

Of course, if we somehow get Cole Aldrich, I like a rotation of Alrich, Brand. and Hawes.

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Anonymous reply to RunningFool on Jun 21 at 14:12
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I hope I am wrong, but his work ethic has been in question since college, and little improvement has been seen so far.

The same could be said for Speights as he has had multiple run ins with various Sacramento Kings staffers for attitude, insubordination, dedication...plus he has a surgery history that isn't encouraging.

Hawes has alot of offensive talent, and he showed that in high school and college.

Speights has shown offensive talent in the NBA, has Hawes?

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Anonymous reply to Anonymous on Jun 21 at 14:21
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My apologies, Hawes has had the work ethic / run ins in Sacramento was my intent to say

I probably watched 80/82 games last year and up until this year everyone had reasonable expectations for jason smith. However, this year he barely had playing time and when he did he made a few mistakes. I think he had a bit of rust coming off his surgery and never got normal playing time or understood rotation. When he was out there he didnt expect to get the ball and just hustled tryin to get rebounds and blocks (pad some stats). I think he could be a viable option as a center with his height, similar skillset to hawes and i think he plays ok defense. Just think he was written off too soon. People tend to play pretty well in contract years too.

He can't defend and can't rebound.

Defensive rebounding rate, league rank: http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats.aspx

Sam: #3
Speights: #82
Hawes: #118
Brand: #165
Smith #165
Young: #223

So maybe Smith rebounds better with regular minutes rebounds a bit better... but as it stands there are 164 players who rebound more effectively than Jason Smith.

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Sean reply to tk76 on Jun 22 at 1:36
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Interestingly enough,
Hawes in 08-09 posted a better def reb%(20.9) then Bynum, both Gasols, David West, Tyson Chandler and Varejao.

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Jason Mess on Jun 21 at 14:03
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Just like people say you have to wait like 3 years to grade a NFL draft, I think we need to wait to grade this trade. Brian you are right on it's face this trade is a bad trade. We can not count on Hawes to improve does not mean he won't we just can not count on it. As far ad Sammy goes it was a lot like playing 4 on 5 when we had the ball. He did not help much. He was good at rebounding and shot blocking even though he would make some of the same dumb mistakes. He was still a defensive player that had to be accounted for by other teams. The one thing that I keep thinking about is that even though this is a big year in a rebuilding process, it is not the only year. So if we do not have average interior defense that is fine for this year. Then they can work on the front court next year (2011-2012). They should have just ate his contract and said good bye and picked up some undrafted F/A from college. They would be not much worse off than they are now talent wise. Still we can make up for this bad trade, and hey maybe Hawes does become a good center.

Happy Father's Day Brian!

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johnrosz on Jun 21 at 16:34
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Collins probably just thinks the 10-11 season is going to be a wash. This franchise has been a mess for a while, this season is going to be about finding which players can/will buy into the DC system and can compete at a high level. Amass as much young talent as possible and then trim the fat in the following seasons. It's not like this team is contending for anything this year anyway. There's no reason for Sam to be here if he's not going to be part of a competitive roster 3 or 4 years down the road.

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Jun 21 at 16:42
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Nocioni's not really that young though. Hawes is, but he's an unknown as well. I share those sentiments, but we could have amassed young talent faster with Sam expiring next year, either by dealing him at the deadline or with the cap space from his deal.

I think the team would have been better spending Sam's money on a good mid-level guy who was a good rebounding 4 man or a three point shooter, depending on whether the pick is Turner or Favors.

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johnrosz reply to Rich on Jun 21 at 17:31
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The Nocioni part sucks I agree. I actually can't stand Nocioni, but I'm assuming Collins is bringing him in here to establish a certain identity with the team. Personally I think it's a mistake but I don't really think the contract is that great of a burden. Let's just hope Nocioni isn't as poor of a defender as statistics suggest...

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Jun 21 at 18:08
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Nocioni was actually a part of Sam rumors earlier with him landing in Boston. I wish we did this trade. It's funny how Stein writes that the Sixers didn't care who they got back, as long as the contracts went off the books at THIS season's end. Well common sense says Steiny Mo would be right, but instead we deal for a contract longer than Sammy's.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10741/the-next-big-trade-heres-a-three-team-possibility

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deepsixersuede on Jun 21 at 18:23
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What do they do with Green and Kapono? They won!t add salary, I presume, do they deactivate them every game or buy them out?

12 active players/game:

Jrue
Iguodala
Turner
Brand
Speights
Lou
Thad
Hawes
Nocioni

Then Kapono, Green, Jason Smith, Meeks, pick one of those guys to wear street clothes every night.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Brian on Jun 21 at 20:37
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not that difficult of a decision. put 1 one of those stiffs in a suit every night and bench the other 3.

Soooo...Jason Smith?

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Jason reply to Jeff on Jun 21 at 21:37
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Can't be smith sadly (if we did Hawes,brand,Speights would be the only 3 big men lol).

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deepsixersuede reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jun 21 at 22:26
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I just think Collins would prefer a couple undrafted or minumum salary thug types to stir up practice and push players, like a J.Dorsey or O.Sanham [undrafted?] rather than guys not really needed.


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