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Favors.

If the Sixers followed the Go For Broke idea it would make this debate alot easier.

You make good points but the pick still has to be Turner for me. I just think the Sixers MUST get this pick right and the chances of Favors not reaching his potential off set the greatness his potential could be. I mean in your description of his worst case scenario you pretty much describe Sammy D and that is not what the Sixers should be getting with the #2 pick.

Posted this on previous Blog.

Could the Sixers be setting the fans up for a possible trade?

Just days ago general manager Ed Stefanski did everything but kiss a No. 2 jersey and declare Evan Turner out of Ohio State as the team's choice in the draft. Yesterday it was coach Doug Collins' turn: "I can't tell you who we're picking. But I can tell you that this kid out of Syracuse, Wesley Johnson, had one terrific workout for our team. He's a special player. He has a lot of skill. And if we get him, we'll be lucky to have him."

Read more: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/stephen_a_smith/20100624_Stephen_A__Smith__76ers_won_t_commit_to_a_No__2_pick_in_NBA_draft.html#ixzz0rlUyPPzA

IMO
Tier 1: Wall, Cousins
Tier 2: Turner, Favors

Only character issues are not enough to pass on the best player in the draft... (Cousins)

I'm worried that Favors downside could wind up being Stromile Swift, Tyrus Thomas or Kwame Brown even. We do have the guy responsible for 'developing' Kwame here as coach now.

Did anyone see this? This is the type of stuff that gets me mad:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/draft/06/23/heat.trade.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

So, OKC traded a 2nd round pick and gets back a 1st round pick AND a serviceable 3pt shooter (i.e. - a guy with some value - not a stiff).

Why the hell are the Sixers never the beneficiary of something like this or the Pau Gasol type deal (both due to salary dumping)?

One reason is that we make stupid trades to take on more salary. Had the Sixers not taken on Nocioni's salary for next season, they could've been in a position to make this type of move, even if they didn't have enough cap space for a max contract, there are other ways to use cap space.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 10:40
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Except that they saved salary this year, and that's what it's all about right, no long term planning here, just trying to avoid the luxury tax for a while.

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Chris reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 10:47
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This (salary cap) purposes is the main reason I wanted to keep Sam until the deadline. He'd be the biggest expiring that would be available for this purpose (Melo makes more but Denver is going to renew him). He could have fetched a lot more if they kept him until then.

Why, because we signed Elton Brand to the Philly-Max because Stefanski believed this team was a contender.

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The Greek on Jun 24 at 9:18
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If we could trade Iguodala and get back favors then hell yeah I would be pumped.

Did anyone see what Collins said about Wes Johnson? He sounded very impressed and high on him.

Favors at two, trade for Johnson at 4 or 5, sign Morrow at whatever it takes to fill in our SG hole.

Jrue
Morrow
Johnson
Favors
Hawes/Speights

That group would have three solid to great strokes on the perimeter and youth all over the place. Thoughts? How possible is it to pick up Morrow?

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The Greek reply to ryano on Jun 24 at 9:44
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If you trade stank face DRE for the fourth pick then you can't afford to get rid of Turner. Don't get cute, pick the best player who is Evan Turner then trade Iggy for that fourth pick and choose either favors, Johnson, or cousins.

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ryano reply to The Greek on Jun 24 at 9:47
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I'm all for Turner. 100%.

But if Collins and Stefanski are in the Favors boat all of the sudden AND they like Johnson, I think we have the capability of getting both. My only concern was what to do at SG because Johnson is no NBA SG. That's where I thought Morrow could come into play. Not trying to get cute with the draft, just thinking through possibilities if we had Favors ranked about Turner.

I want a Blow It Up redo for this team- and if it had to start with Favors, I'd be ok with it if we were able to add the pieces I mentioned above.

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The Greek reply to ryano on Jun 24 at 9:57
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I also want Turner, I believe that every great needs has to have at least one great leader. Being a yankee fan and Seeing what a positive influence Derek Jeter has on everyone especially the young kids make me long for that on the Sixers. This is why I am so down on Iguodala. For all of his positives I just can't fuking stand his personality.

When a young guy fuks up instead of looking at them with a shit face, go over to them and talk to them like a man. Some people need a kick in the ass and others need a pat on the back. No one appreciates some rich asshole pointing his finger at you with his shit face. He belongs on the Greek Water Polo team where after a goal you see 5 guys pointing at someone. Sorry Brian, I know your a fan of Iggy but I have about had it with him.

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ryano reply to The Greek on Jun 24 at 10:13
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I'm not quite so down on Iggy, but I agree that he's not the leader the team needs. I'm not sure he ever should have been given that responsibility, but it landed on him by default. And since I think we all want a fresh start, bringing in the Villain to be our leader of the future and using Iggy to bring in another big piece for the future makes a lot of sense to me. Now's the time...BLOW IT UP.

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Tom Moore on Jun 24 at 9:41
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NBA draft expert Chris Ekstrand, when I asked if Turner can be a 20-point scorer for the Sixers: "It'd probably be a bad thing. It'd mean Brand didn't pan out or Iguodala is gone. You want him to be a facilitator and a guy who can score but not your (primary) point producer. ... If he’s scoring 25 points in two years, they’re probably still a lottery team. It'd just mean he’s taking a lot of shots."

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The Greek reply to Tom Moore on Jun 24 at 9:50
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Here's the problem Tom, as soon as he shows that he is a better ball handler and playmaker then Iggy and Philly puts the ball in his hands then Iggy standing our on the 3 pt line will lead to Iggy standing on trading line. He has no low post game, and no 3pt shot.

Iggy's value on offense is that he is a playmaker.

Tom, in your expert opinion how do you think that Iguodala would react to becoming the 3rd ball handler on the team behind Jrue and Turner?

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Tom Moore reply to The Greek on Jun 24 at 10:23
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I think how Iguodala reacts will tell you a lot about him. If he really wants to win and for the team to be better, he'll embrace Turner. If it's about him being the main guy, he won't.

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Jason Mess on Jun 24 at 9:42
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I would be happy with any of the following scenarios play out. (Only untouchable player would be Jrue)

We get just Turner, or Turner/Favors, Turner/Cousins, Turner/Johnson, Turner/Whiteside, Turner/Monroe Turner/any of the first round rated Bigs.

We get just Favors or Favors/Johnson, Favors/Henry, Favors/Warren, Favors/George, Favors/Hayward, Favors/Bradley.

Anything else I will be at least a little concerned. Short of us pulling of some sort of trade that just make to much sense (I don't think one will be offered but you never know).

Favors/Bradley (sending a lotto protected future #1 to Boston for #19) would probably be the second best outcome I could hope for.

Jrue
Bradley
Iguodala
Favors

That's four very good to excellent defenders you can throw out there.

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Jason Mess reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 10:45
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I love that idea, I think mainly because we get to keep Iguodala.

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Jason Mess reply to Jason Mess on Jun 24 at 10:54
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I would also say 4 defenders that can cover multiple positions.

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Turtle Bay reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 12:28
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It would also be a complete offensive mess.

Hi Tom,

Did he evince an opinion on whether we should pick Favors (or Cousins) over Turner? Seems some of the ESPN'ers are thinking Favors over Turner is a slam dunk.

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Tom Moore reply to Chris on Jun 24 at 10:47
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Chris, I think Turner is more ready to help right away. Favors is more raw and less polished, but could be quite good down the road. Turner is the logical choice.

Derrick Favors = Nene Hilario
Evan Turner = Jalen Rose
DeMarcus Cousins = Zach Randolph
you're screwed either way.

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The Greek reply to Steve on Jun 24 at 10:06
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-1

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Jason Mess reply to Steve on Jun 24 at 10:26
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There is nothing wrong with having a Nene, and Rose type player if you can still get a superstar/leader/ I am going to take this game over and win it one way or the other type of player at some point. Rome was not built in a day or a year for that mater, neither are championship teams.

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eddies' heady's on Jun 24 at 10:08
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Wesley Johnson should be the pick. Hope Collins isn't blowing smoke. Whether that's at #2 or lower, get this guy on our team. He's gonna be a potential star.

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Tom Moore reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 24 at 10:26
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The Sixers might consider Johnson if he were a better ball-handler.

Is anyone going to the draft party tonight?? Or did anyone go in the past and if so what is it like?

I think if you have the #2 overall pick you can't reach, not if you're the Sixers, with a flailing fan base, and a team that seems disgruntled at times.

Favors is a reach to me. He MAY very well turn out to be an excellent player and develope an offense game that makes him a star player. He may turn out to be an above average defender and shot blocker, similar to the man who just left town.

Down the road, in hindsight, I'd rather look back as a fan and think we passed on a player that is a beast, but have a great piece anyway, than look back and think we gambled and passed on a very solid player for a man who never came around.

Give me Turner and hope he doesn't become an injury plagued player, because I think that is the only thing that can stop him from being great. He has the talent, drive, and personality to be a franchise player.

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Tom Moore on Jun 24 at 10:27
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I have not seen enough of Turner or Favors to predict who will be a better player. But based on the consensus of what I've read, I believe Turner will be the batter player long term. Favors is the better athlete. Turner is more skilled. It sounds like Turner's proven drive to maximize his game is why he should turn out to be the better pro.

I believe that is is clear cut enough that you can't pass on Turner and reach for need. But if DiLeo believes Turner and Favors are about equal as prospects then I would take Favors. But I have hear little or nothing about what DiLeo thinks, and unfortunately because of the high stake, I think the deceion will be Stefanski and Collins- but I trust DiLeo more when it comes to the draft.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jun 24 at 10:49
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Drafting Evan Turner, or Favors, or Johnson (if you are on that fence post) doesn't matter in terms of need. They all fill needs the sixers have...when you have such a pathetic assortment of mostly one dimensional bench players like the sixers have, your needs are plentiful

I've had a dream... Turner and Johnson!

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Jason Mess reply to PeP on Jun 24 at 11:20
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I would like Turner and George also (easier trade to get done than Turner/Johnson?)

I've seen Detroit rumors flying around...

Any chance we could go Iguodala and a future #1 for #7 and Prince? Prince is expiring this year and with #7 we could take Greg Monroe who has good size and touch. If we can't jump into the top five this would be a good alternative and would give us cap space when Prince's deal expires.

I've seen that Detroit is high on Aminu, so essentially they switch Aminu for Iggy and wait for a future number 1.

I hate Monroe. Honestly, the last thing this team needs is another soft big who prefers to play away from the hoop and can't defend.

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ryano reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 11:42
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Just a thought. Would there be someone at 7 that would make the trade worth while to you?

Honestly, no. I'm really only willing to move Iguodala if the deal gets us Turner/Favors maybe on the outside I could live with Turner/Cousins or Favors/Johnson, but I'd have to give some serious thought to that. Iguodala is a huge asset, this isn't about getting rid of him for me, it's about hitting the reset button in a huge way and swapping one cornerstone for a younger/cheaper one with the knowledge that we're going to have a tough season, but there's serious light at the end of the tunnel. When you get below the #5 pick in this draft, you aren't talking about cornerstones anymore, you're talking about complimentary players.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 11:42
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Makes me sad to give Showtime money

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JohnEMagee on Jun 24 at 11:43
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My most favorite rumor of the day has nothing to do with the draft, but a report from LA that there are mumblings that Jerry Buss is going so cheap he may consider trading Lamar Odom.

Seriously, Jerry, DOUBLE the price of the seats, you'll still sell out

The only players I want from this draft are WTF-Cuz-Wes. It is probably too greedy to expect two (even if they traded away Iguodala.)

I'm not wed to guys like Speights, Lou or Thad- but on the other hand I do not see them getting enough value back for them to make it worth trading them for a pick. Partly that is because I am not that impressed by the draft outside the top 5. And partly because I think those players bring back worse picks than we would think.

Disagree on Lou. If you move him for a pick, there's a salary relief aspect to the deal as well.

I'd agree if they did not just take on 7M for Nocioni. I see no reason for them to do a cap related move right now.

Now if Indiana offered #10 for Lou as their PG of the future then sure... but more likely trading Lou brings back a very late 1st or mid 2nd and a bad contract in return.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jun 24 at 12:09
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I'd agree if they did not just take on 7M for Nocioni. I see no reason for them to do a cap related move right now.

Another one you mean

I've read a lot of draft analysis, but haven't found any that answers two key questions about the guys being discussed.

Q1 about Favors: What did he work on and how hard did he work at it during the past year? Compared to his HS films, Favors looked heavier and wider but not quite as explosive at Georgia Tech. He did gain weight and apparently did some lifting. How and how much did he work on his shooting? Did his shooting progress? He mentioned in an interview that he struggled some with his conditioning during his Freshman year. Why was that? What did he try to correct it?

Q2 about Turner: How would he currently perform against NBA quality man to man defense? Who are the most comparable man to man defenders he has played against and how did he do against them?

Good questions, and I'm not sure there are any answers out there. I don't think Turner faced too many NBA level defenders this season. The conditioning thing with Favors is just weird to me, considering his low body fat %. I think that's something that takes care of itself when he gets into camp. The explosiveness thing seems off base to me.

If Favors worked out and gained weight in the form of upper body muscle mass while his frame got wider, but he didn't do a lot of cardio or lower body work then he could easily have low body fat with lower stamina for running and less quickness on his feet. I'm interested to know what he tried to work on and what, if anything, the staff at Georgia Tech asked him to work on.

This link suggests he was in pretty good running shape in H.S.:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1150861/index.htm

My questions are the kind of stuff the NBA franchises evaluating these prospects should be all over with answers, but I have no idea whether they are or not. There wasn't any mention, for instance, of the Sixers bringing in any of their own players to work out against Turner.


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JohnEMagee reply to izimbra on Jun 24 at 13:22
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My questions are the kind of stuff the NBA franchises evaluating these prospects should be all over with answers, but I have no idea whether they are or not. There wasn't any mention, for instance, of the Sixers bringing in any of their own players to work out against Turner.

There's absolutely no obligation or reason to believe that Franchises are going to release any of this information that you are demanding to the public. Each franchise has their own way to evaluate a prospect and are probably pretty protective of that (especially franchises with good success rates)...you're asking for the kind of insight that you aren't going to get.

I'm not sure why your focus is on some type of imagined demand for information from me. If your concern is that I might falsely belief the NBA teams share every bit of info they have with the news media who then report it, then you needn't worry on that score. Or are you actually saying you think it is likely that there were current Sixer players working out against Turner at PCOM and not just the reported not likely to be drafted local guys?

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JohnEMagee reply to izimbra on Jun 24 at 13:57
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My focus is on your demand for information because you seem to think the information yo uwant should be available somewhere and seem astonished that it isn't...when common sense indicates that teams aren't going to publicly tell people how they're evaluating prospects in any great detail because that's the kind of information you keep to yourself

No, you're badly misreading me. I see those questions I raised as important ones that could have been examined by NBA teams, but may well not have been. I am suspicious of the thoroughness of their ability to think through some of these issues - I read you as generally being in the same camp as me on this. That is all quite different from thinking that they need to or will share every bit of analysis with the fans.

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JohnEMagee reply to izimbra on Jun 24 at 14:27
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I agree that many teams seem to scout poorly (athleticism being too favored over skill for instance) but I don't presume to know exactly what they're doing wrong and don't expect I'll ever find out unless someone publishes a book like the 'meat market' book that expsed college football recruiting

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 13:27
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That is the question about Favors for me, "Did his season this year raise red flags about improving his game?" He didn't really stick out and play better or improving while Turner did, against probably some of the toughest defense you can find. I hate Big 10 hoops, but it is the toughest defense in the country.

The flipside to that question is that Favors was in a pretty bad situation (Horrendous guards who couldn't get him the ball, Gani Lawal who pushed Favors away for touches to get into the draft). He still put up basically a ho-hum double double, so what is he capable of on a team that fits him?

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jun 24 at 13:32
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I wonder if what's going on with Favors will hurt Hewitts ability to recruit any 'one and doners' in the future

Favors really came on as the year progressed.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 13:54
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He did, but why did it take him so long? Why did he disappear in the middle of the season? I saw him play twice against Duke for example: The first time his team won and he was non-existent, something like 7 and 6. His buckets had nothing to do with him because they were pass-off dunks. He also was bad in the other Duke game. A valid question is why does he disappear like that?

Georgia Tech could have just been the wrong spot for him, but guys without an offensive game scare me. Dwight Howard should be the most dominant offensive player ever, but he relies completely on his athleticism. Will Favors do the same because he's not the same specimen as Howard?

His third game against Duke was really good.

My bet is that GT was a bad situation for him. Poor guard play, redundant, entrenched guy with similar skills in front of him.

My questions are related to that. There was evidence of some types of improvement - he got better as the Georgia Tech season went on, he gained weight and muscle (which people may have advised him would help him with the NBA draft), and he showed an occasional left handed move. Also, as I wrote about earlier here, his plus/minus stats were a lot better than anybody else on Georgia Tech's team so he did have a measurable impact. But I would be concerned if, for instance, he worked a lot on his outside shooting and didn't improve or if the Georgia Tech staff asked him to work on it and he didn't do it.

Really good question. I suppose on the GT coach could give you a straight answer.

I always wonder what these college coaches really do for kids who are obviously going to be one and done.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 14:02
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That's why I think Favors is going to be a good player. Long-term player development is not a priority of a guy like Hewitt, who wants to use Favors' strengths for a year and then he leaves. Call Calipari a scumbag (I do), but his player development is a notch above. Cousins had it, and Favors didn't, it's that simple. Picturing Kentucky with Favors instead of Cousins has been an excercise I've been doing. They would have been a different team, but probably more suited to win in the tourney.

I think poor Brian is going to be very upset on Draft night if the following happens (which I'm beginning to think might): Sixers draft Turners, Nets take Favors, then Minny trades #4 and Al Jefferson to Sixers for Igoudala and Brand. Collins gets the guy he's been GUSHING over for a week (Wes Johnson) who he feels fits better with Turner. They also trade a 31 yr old center with an albatross contract for a 25 yr old headcase with a bad knee (who also has an albatross contract). The PF's contracts are a wash - same money, same years. Wolves get the wing they want (and need) for less than they'd have to pay Gay, and have him locked up for multiple years. Collins gets a guy at SF that fits better with Turner.

Starting Lineup:
Jrue
Turner
Johnson
Jefferson
Hawes

Bench:
Lou
Thad
Speights

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JohnEMagee reply to Marty on Jun 24 at 12:35
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That's not going to happen.

Would it shock you? I could see it.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 12:53
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Jeffersons value doesn't seem to be much more than brands around the league...no one wants him because of his contract and knees...sound familiar?

So you trade the #2 pick and gimpy PF for the #4 pick and gimpy PF (both soft as well) - and the sixers have to include the best player in the deal?

That's the kind of stupidity that's reserved for isiah thomas

"Al Jefferson brings the toughness we desperately needed. He just needed a change of scenery."

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 12:58
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Haven't they used up their 'tough' allotment for the summer regarding Nocioni?

BTW - Chad Ford thinks that the Bucks trading for CDR and CM is just great for the bucks - i knew you'd be thrilled

Numerous first round draft picks are basically for sale folks - if the sixers don't get a second first round pick - it's because of comcast cheapness

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Jason Mess reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 24 at 14:02
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If you are talking about the trade Marty posted, we keep the #2 pick and trade AI9.

This move loves me!

why does everyone have holiday pencilled in as future all star. don't get me wrong, i think he could be good. but he had a so-so rookie year. i don't think he's proven that he's the future of the franchise.

Excellent size, point guard instincts, very solid defense, outside shot, 19-years-old. There's a lot to like about Holiday.

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JohnEMagee reply to joeykey on Jun 24 at 12:41
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He had a 'so so rookie year' playing for a god awful coach, don't look at the year over all, look at the progression, and how he was playing some of his best ball when Jordan finally woke up and gave him meaningful minutes (not to mention the best 3 point shooting in this team probably since korver left)

I'd also argue that calling it a 'so so rookie year' kind of ignores the facts

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bebopdeluxe reply to joeykey on Jun 24 at 12:42
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I think that Jrue proved that - as the YOUNGEST player in the NBA last year - 1) he belongs; and 2) he has a TON of upside.

That's enough for me. How about you?

Don't take this the wrong way...

Did you watch most of the Sixers games last year?

Because the general consensus was Jrue was the second best Sixer on the floor for the second half of the season. It would seem his floor is being a solid NBA starter at PG who gives you above average defense and rebounding. I have not heard anyone who doubts he will be a productive starter for a long time.

Honestly, even if Jrue just played like he did the 2nd half of last year, he would be a good starter to have next to Turner and Iguodala... And you have to figure he improves.

He would actually have to regress significantly (like forget how to shoot) in order for his current skills to not be the right fit at PG going forward.

so so year? Buh!

johnEmagee

i just say... I'm agree with JohnEMagee

Question for you guys, would you rather have a thread in the comments here tonight (like we did for all the games last season), or a live blog, using Cover It Live? I'm torn.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 12:53
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I'm actually leaving work an hour early so i can be sure to see the draft from the beginning and was looking forward to the 'live chat' thing you do every so often, but I dont know how much work it takes you - how much it costs - etc...

I'll be at work to.

Also, not expecting much excitement...

meant "too"

Cover it live would great but I don't know what goes into that on your part.

It's confirmed, we're using Cover It Live. Starting at 6:30pm.

Cover It Live!

Jefferson's a much better gimpy PF than Brand. For one thing isn't he about six years younger?

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JohnEMagee reply to Tray on Jun 24 at 13:28
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I never trust a big man and knee injuries - history indicates it won't be the last.

The sixers give up

The better draft pick
the best player (Iguodala)
And get back a cheaper gimpy PF whose contract still expires at the same time as Elton Brands and is a soft defender...

How exactly do the sixers even come close to winning in that deal?

I think in the original post we kept the #2 pick so it was Igoudala/Brand for #4 and jefferson. For what it's worth I wouldn't do that deal to take Wesley Johnson. Favors or Cousins and I would consider it.

PG: Jrue
SG: Turner
SF: Thad
PF: Jefferson
C: Favors/Cousins

Bench: Lou, Nocioni, Speights, Hawes

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Tray reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 24 at 14:08
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I think you misread his hypothetical deal. He didn't propose giving up Turner. He wants the 4 and Jefferson for Iguodala and Brand, straight up. Do we win that deal? Sort of, if you like Favors anyway. If you think he has a 50% chance of becoming Stro Swift, I don't see trading Iguodala for him.

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Chris reply to Tray on Jun 24 at 13:45
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Not entirely sure of that.

While Al Jeff is a lot younger, Brand used to be a plus defender (not sure if his slippage is due to EJ) and he at least continues to give an effort on it. Al Jeff is a one way player a la Speights.

Would there be any way we could get Love (or Gomes / other fodder) from the T-Wolves instead of getting Al Jeff?

Finally a NCAA football championship!


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