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Turner.

Here's my short breakdown, which is completely flawed because I'm using numbers on a 1 to 10 scale-

1. Ceiling: Turner-8.5, Favors-9
2. Defensive Impact: Turner- 8, Favors- 9.5
3. Offensive Impact: Turner- 9, Favors- 8
4. Floor: Turner- 7, Favors- 6 (Sammy with a tad better offense)
5. Fit: Turner- 7 (2nd most needed position), Favors- 9.5 (Most needed position)
6. Likelihood: Turner- 8, Favors- 7

Make no mistake anybody that wants Turner, Favors makes the bigger impact if he pans out. Turner is a good fit that will give you what you expect which is great, but if Favors works out, this team does better things. It is a risk though.

Great post. I agree with pretty much everything here.

I'm not sure why people keep saying the Sixers can't miss with this pick, and they have to take the safe option. It's not like they're knocking on the door of a championship. Jrue is only 19, they've got youth and time on their side. Unless they think there's a high likelihood that Favors is going to be a bust, I think now is a good time to take this type of risk. If Turner does have an immediate impact, but doesn't get a whole lot better, then this is probably the last high lottery pick you're going to get. If Favors is a bust (or even if he takes a year or two to really get acclimated), you should have more top picks to work with.

Anyway, some part of that logic bothers me, but it's another point I wanted to make (more clearly) earlier.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 14:43
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The problem is that Turner is a very safe and good pick. He also fits a huge need, albeit really only on one end of the floor, and everything I have read about him is very positive. I still think I'd pick Turner because he's a talent but I starting to doubt the "We can't get this wrong" and pick Turner. If you feel that way because you think Turner will only be steady, then that's not really getting it right. I hope the Sixers take Turner because they believe in his talent above Favors. I'll be satisfied with that.

I would like to do the blow it up option if we could get Turner and Favors. Iguodala can go if we do that.

Anybody going down to Wachovia to watch the draft? I was wondering if you think its worthwhile to go down there or to just watch it from my couch.

I'm watching from home. Couldn't get down there.

i agree with that logic. if you have a chance to take a potential true superstar, you have to do it, right? how many chances like that does a franchise get?

Is anyone concerned about the reports that Favors is out of shape?

http://www.kare11.com/sports/sports_article.aspx?storyid=853042

We've talked about it a couple times this week. I don't think it's a big deal, he's not fat, just needs road work.

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Jason Mess reply to ojr107 on Jun 24 at 15:01
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No because he is not out of shape just not in the right type of "shape". Look at Cousins he is out of shape and will have to really work hard on that, then look at Favors he just needs to work on how he is conditioned. He is already in shape. Anyone with as low a body fat% as him is in shape. I understand your concerns.

Sixers working the phones, trying to pick up another first rounder/early second rounder, sources say. Big man is their priority.

ChrisMannixSI via Twitter

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 14:59
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Minnesota has two low picks in the 20s they are rumored to be straight up selling.

3 million dollars is what it takes - so it really shouldn't be that difficult should it?

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smh1980 reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:01
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Brian,

Who would be worth picking up that late? Any sleepers?

Avery Bradley is my #1 target. Ford has him going #19, and the Celts are shopping that pick. Whiteside may be worth a shot, he's slipped from top ten to the mid-20s.

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Joe reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:15
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I'm blanking on who Bradley is. I remember Pittman and Jones from those teams.

This link has Bradley as the least productive college player.(projected to be drafted by yahoo)

Whiteside looks like a good player, though, from that.

Again, I don't remember Bradley at all, though, but some metrics would say he was very unproductive it seems.

He was an offensive disappointment, a defensive menace. Applied full court pressure and completely disrupted the other teams. Has a decent jumper, but little else on the offensive end. Consider him the polar opposite of Lou.

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Joe reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:22
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Ohh, I was thinking he was a big man. I remember him now.

I think they are fine on guards in a relative way assuming they take Turner. I'd rather have a good amount of guys out there, but my college bball viewing keeps dropping every year.

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Jason Mess reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:02
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If this were facebook I would "like" this.

What big do you think they are looking at?

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steve reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 16:11
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Larry Sanders would be my big man target. Sanders, Whiteside, Alobi, Orton in that order. Im surprised you dont love him Brian hes an unbelievable shot blocker and very solid post defender. Freak Athlete , hes got alottt of upside and at worst is a rotational big on a very good team.

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JohnEMagee reply to steve on Jun 24 at 16:14
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I can't be the only one here who pictures Garry Shandlings teeth when ever larry sanders comes up - right?

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steve reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 24 at 16:16
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I'm a little young to know who that is haha.

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bebopdeluxe reply to steve on Jun 24 at 17:20
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In the 20 range, I absolutely agree. Reminds me a lot of Theo when he came out of Wyoming, and Collins had Theo as a rook in DET.

Works for me.

That Turner video at that bottom is sick. One underated part of athleticism is body contorl Turner has excellent body control.
I said WOW a number of times watching that video. The Favors video didnt have me wowing nearly as much. I understand he is younger, but even turnis is sick. You cant go wrong with either guy. I am just excited for the future of the sixers.

I think that Turner has to be the guy at # 2. That doesn't mean the sixers can't take advantage of that. Once Turner is off the board then we can wait 5 minutes until the Nets make their pick and see who's left. I think that Minnesota will be looking to make a splash tonight and if Turner is off the table then I Iggy would do. Trade Iggy for the # 4 pick. I'd probably sweeten the deal with Speights if Favors was still on the board. I'm not sure who the sixers would have to take back. I didn't look at the contracts.

I believe this is all possible because they will have to give Ricky Rubio a reason to play for Minny in 2011. Iggy would definitely help their cause. Iggy's contract would keep him there while Rubio would be under his rookie contract which guarantees that he'll have some talent around him.

There is no telling what impact Wes Johnson will have next year. Any big man they would draft would have a much steeper learning curve and Rubio might not see the benefit of leaving for the NBA to be a part of such a sad franchise.

Sixers must do more than get 1 pick tonight. They need to go in with a plan. Collins needs to impress.

Last thought for me... I want Avery Bradley bad too!!!

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Sean(RSWKnight) on Jun 24 at 14:55
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I would say that to be a superstar, a player would need either superior skill or elite athleticism. Turner fits the 1st, Favors fits the 2nd. As you said, legit 3-pt range is what the Villain needs to possibly reach that 1st tier. Turner has said that he plans to become a 40% three-point shooter in order to keep the defense "honest." He just doesn't want to rely on it, because shooting too many threes lets the defense off the hook(which is the same philosophy as Jordan & Bird).

I guess my argument is that it is far easier to find Favors "floor" elsewhere(i.e. an athletic banger who can board and defend) then vice versa. There is a reason why ORL let Turk go, traded for VC and now rumors have them chasing after Arenas. They are actively searching for their "Turner" if you will.

Meanwhile, if you complement a Jrue/Turner/Iguodala core with a consistent "Horace Grant" or "Perkins/Lopez" type (In this draft, a guy like Udoh or Aldrich perhaps?), you could be a legit contender when they hit their primes. Nevertheless, those types are much easier to find.

I take the sure thing and find the missing piece later.

Amen on Turner's 3 point philosophy. How much better would LeBron or Kobe be if they were only shooting a couple three's a game instead of chucking up 5 or 6? They'd both be so much deadlier. If Turner has the Jordan, or another comparison- Paul Pierce, 3 point philosophy where he makes defenses pay when they leave him open and really punishes them when they play close then he is going to succeed. I hope we see 40% shooting from deep on 2 shots a game rather than 35% shooting on 5 shots a game.

The Villain knows how to play his game and I can't wait to watch it.

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Sean(RSWKnight) reply to ryano on Jun 24 at 15:35
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Agreed. Just use it enough to keep them honest but don't fall in love with it, especially if you don't need to(like a Ray Allen/Reggie Miller type does)

New Orleans is apparently trying to shed salary and move #11.

Kapono for Posey and #11 saves N.O. roughly $10M over the next 2 seasons. Still probably not enough.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:07
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New Orleans is apparently trying to shed salary and move #11.

The day after Chris Paul said (paraphrased) - 'as long as new orleans shows a commitment to building a winning team, I won't ask for a trade'

Let the chris paul rumors begin in earnest baby.

Are you suggesting the sixers obtain james posey purely to get #11 or do you think he's a player they should have?

I think next year's salary doesn't matter anymore since the boneheaded Nocioni trade, so contracts that expire after this season are no more valuable to the sixers than contracts that expire after next season.

Oh, and Posey is tough.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:10
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I disagree - i think 2011/12 salary matters quite a bit to comcast - but that 10/11 salary was more important - and that next off season they'll make some sort of move to get under the 11/12 tax while taking on 12/13 (or further) salary

I think this pattern of short term stupidity for one seasons salary savings will continue

I wasn't talking from Comcast's perspective, I was talking from my perspective. As in, winning games matters.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:23
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Oh, right, sorry, :)

Winning games to me doesn't really matter just yet cause i think the roster is more misfit then it was before the dalembert trade - so it's going to take more time to build a winning roster and wtf do the sixers need posey for - hed' be like the fourth or fifth version of that player?

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Jason Mess on Jun 24 at 15:08
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Brian I know you don't like Monroe. Do you see anything that says he could take a couple of years to progress like Pau did and become not so soft. I am not saying we can or would want to do this but just wondering?

I guess anything's possible. Pau is still a bit soft in my mind, he's just so gifted on the offensive end and in such a great situation that it doesn't matter.

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Gdog reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 17:25
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Pau is soft ? Did you watch the finals ? Or any of the lakers playoff games ? He may not be Charles Oakley but he is very far from soft. He USED to be soft...watch game 7 of the finals. You may re-think that statement.

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Jason Mess on Jun 24 at 15:24
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Would anyone be in favor of Favors and Henry and what wold be the most you would give up to get that combo.

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JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jun 24 at 15:26
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Very little

Draft Favors at 2

Buy a pick to get Henry

I think Henry probably goes a little too high to be able to just buy a pick to get him. Probably have to include something of value, so maybe Thad or Speights, if teams find either of them valuable at this point.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 15:32
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3 million dollars and the 2011 second round pick - that's going to be top 5 if the deals go through anyway :)

Depends on who you're trading with and how desperate they are to move em

Bulls just sent #17 and Hinrich to Washington.

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JohnEmagee reply to Chris on Jun 24 at 16:57
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ESPN had a rumor this morning that the bulls were told they'd be the front runners for lebron if they could clear a little more cap space to get 2 max players (or something like that) and voila, washington has cap room and gains two assets for nothing

All you pro-Dalembert trade people out there. These are the kinds of deals the Sixers could've been making next summer if we didn't take back Nocioni's terrible contract, along with his mullet and penchant for drunk driving.

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 17:01
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The plan will become clearer when they dump that other loser Iguodala

I hate these Turner vs Favors posts, because so much of it is based on speculation and second hand knowledge... But I get the sense that Turner has the right approach and personality to be a star. Whether his physical gifts let him down is another question.

I am not sold that Favors has that level of drive, intensity and passion to fully tap into his innate talent. But then again, he's only 18, so its so hard to know. We are reliant on peoples reports based on short interviews. So it makes arriving at conclusions about his character difficult if not impossible.

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JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jun 24 at 17:03
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That's when you put your faith in Tony DiLeo who has the first hand knowledge and information we don't.

If you trust Tony DiLeo (and that he's still calling the draft shots) you trust that whoever the sixers pick is the right one :)

That's how i see it at least

Yep. On the other hand, this is one of the few times where I think I'm going to be happy either way.

Yeah, I'll be excited to see their top pick, whoever they choose. I'd be ecstatic if they can pull of a "go for broke" move.

Long term I'm very concerned about their new approach to front-court players (interchangeable parts of non-rebounding poor defenders.) But there is a lot to look forward to next year.

I do hope they hold onto their young players at least until they see how they play under Collins. No reason to dump players with talent, unless you get something better in return. I even include Lou in this list 9for now.)

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bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Jun 24 at 17:26
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Good post. In the man's league that is called the NBA, it is the inner drive...the hunger to DOMINATE...the ruthlessness that makes good players great and great players superstars. While it can be virtually impossible to truly know if a player has that insatiable hunger to be the best, if I had to call it right now, I think that Turner has a better chance of tapping into his inner beast than Favors does.

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johnrosz on Jun 24 at 17:13
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Stefanski was supposed to make an appearance on Daily News Live tonight, but apparently he is "busy" and can't make it. hmmm...

High level Chili's meeting, no doubt.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 17:16
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Yeah, or maybe the harsh digestive aftermath of eating there. Stefanski last seen heading towards the executive restroom facilities

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 24 at 17:18
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He's trading Iguodala for a sandwich

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 24 at 17:24
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That sounds like an upgrade to me compared to the "bag of donuts" Stephen A. suggested they trade him for in the past

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jun 24 at 17:25
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That truly depends on where the donuts and the sandwiches are from

one of those terrible tourist cheez steaks from pats or ginos versus some krispy kremes - i'll take the donuts

store bought donuts versus one of them amazing cheese steaks i had growing up from my local shops - i'll take the sandwich :)

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 24 at 17:29
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Evan Turner got a Geno's cheese steak, minus the cheese during his visit. A bad omen?

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Jun 24 at 17:46
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I don't like cheese on my steaks either, that's not a bad thing. I would hope he doesn't eat them at all, but I'm sure Speights has already told him about how great they are.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jun 24 at 17:48
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Cheez Whiz isn't cheese anyway :)

Brian have you or anyone else saying Turner is not an "elite" athlete ever done any serious physical sports training ? Plyometrics, extensive weight work etc ?
Guys can get better at these things , they can become more athletic. They can jump higher, move faster etc.
Turner is already a very good athlete. The NBA has top level trainers and I am sure all sorts of programs to get the best out guys. Turner seems to be a gym rat and is very smart. I would take that over any guy who is "could" be great "if" he lives up to his potential.
Your saying now is the time to gamble for the Sixers..is it ? Even if Favors is a bust the team would still win 35 games the next 3-4 years. So its not like they would be a lottery team anytime soon(and certainly not get the #2 pick again), even without turner or Favors. Not with Doug Collins coaching.

Sorry, I don't see this current roster winning 35 games, not with that interior defense, no way. And yes, he could make some improvements in his athleticism through weight training, etc (assuming he hasn't already maxed that out to get to the level he's at right now), but no amount of training is going to turn him into an elite athlete, not on this level.

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JohnEMagee reply to Gdog on Jun 24 at 17:29
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Even if Favors is a bust the team would still win 35 games the next 3-4 years.

Speights
Brand
Hawes
Young

Who exactly stops teams from getting to the basket or kicking the sixers ASS on rebounding?

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Gdog reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 24 at 17:37
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Your forgetting this team won 40 plus games without brand, speights,and Jrue.
your giving too much credit to Sam and under valuing the offense the other players bring. Not to mention the biggest reason of all...the coach.

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JohnEMagee reply to Gdog on Jun 24 at 17:43
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I appreciate you're trying to tell me what I am and am not remembering or forgetting. Did you remember that those teams played better defense? That Elton Brand is a shell who can't really play defense? That Sam Dalembert is the second best rebounder in the league the past two seasons, and that Doug Collins who is supposedly defense only has two guys on his roster right now who actually play defense?

I think YOU'RE the one forgetting things

Change of coach is a 10 game improvement in my opinion as is...I didnt say that they would be as good as a few years ago but way better than last year.


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