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The Max for Joe Johnson?

If NY ties itself to huge money to sign Johnson/Boozer or the like, they are building a Stefanski style Brand/Iguodla/Miller type team, but worse.

Bosh and Lebron are not only better than JJ, they are also several years younger- so will be in their prime throughout their next contract.

Allan Houston part II ?

but I have to disagree with you about Iguodala's value, no way he's worth more than JJ.
Johnson btw has an history of making big shots, while Iguodala's track record in this category is terrible, as we all know

He is not. NY can't stand pat and just have a horrible team because they gave all of their picks away for like the next threes years.

Daryl Morey completely hijacked them. This is why you don't build through FA. You get that Superstar via the draft and then build around him. It's amazing how many teams don't understand that.

Bron and pals are going to either Miami or Chicago. Anywhere else would be stupid.

Iggy and Joe Johnson are probably worth about the same. JJ is better offensively, Iggy defensively, but they both aren't good enough to be a teams main guy.

Looking at the numbers they seem about equal as a players. I think it's safe to say though that neither are worth max money and that if Joe Johnson or Igoudala are your best player your not going past the 2nd round.

Brian, since you live up in NYC I'll ask you this but if the Knicks come out of this summer with Joe Johnson and Boozer will Knicks fans revolt and burn down MSG? What's the chances they end up with less than that?

Everyone always says the Knicks have the best fans in the world, but they all seem kind of dumb/delusional to me. I think if the Knicks spend a ton of money on someone, the fans will just automatically think he was worth it. It'll probably take them three years or so to realize they aren't going to win a title, then the fans will leave and they'll be back to celebs and bankers selling the place out when LeBron's team comes to town, and give the tickets away to their secretaries/assistants the rest of the year.

I just really hope for for my own amusement that the Knicks end up with Rudy Gay and Boozer after they have been terrible for the past 3 years in anticipation of this summer.

deepsixersuede on Jun 29 at 7:07

Cross the knicks off as a team to worry about; Cleveland will be next and hopefully Orlando trades for Arenas; things are looking up!!!

How much is a max contract anyway? I thought you were allowed to sign a player for as much as you had available. For instance if you had 30 million in cap space you could give someone a 30 million annual contract.

It depends on how many years you have been in the league. If you are coming off a rookie deal your contract can start at about 12M and go up. For Lebron it can start at about 19M. For Kobe's extension it starts at 25M (and escalates to 30M.)

These numbers are adjusted slightly each year based on league revenue and the cap and will all change after the lock-out.

Johnson on the Knicks making max money would be hilarious

I always wonder how much the Sixers' front office "recalibrates" when there is news like this. Do they view this just as an Atlanta/NY story or do they realize that it could be used to make their team better? For example, this makes Iguodala more valuable and the Hawks may be interested in Lou Will as a backup for Crawford.

Not saying that the Sixers trade anybody. Just saying that I hope they realize that things are constantly changing and there are opportunities to make the team better that pop up every day.

Josh reply to Joe on Jun 29 at 9:07

Joe, I think you are right and that the Sixers do see that this gives them some wiggle room this summer. In fact Doug mentioned it at the press conference the night of the draft. Let's hope we can take advantage of someone.

scott reply to Joe on Jun 29 at 9:19

Joe, I agree. I hope they are always looking at the league from every angle.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to doubt that Sixers management is really putting in the time and effort necessary to do so. Based on the fact that they didn't even work through the entire draft, it seems like they are content with doing just enough to get by.

I used to be a big Stefanski supporter, but he hasn't given me reason to be one in quite a while.

The Greek reply to scott on Jun 29 at 9:38

After the draft I spent the whole day listening to every interview that the sixers did. And just like Joe Said I think that there is a great chance that we will be making a trade once the big free agents sign. Stefanski and Collins alluded to it.

These are the teams with money

Can't wait to see what we could get for Iguodala or Lou Williams.

The Greek on Jun 29 at 9:39

oh and btw there is no way in hell that Joe Johnson is a max player, he is better then Iguodala though for sure.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Johnson is better?

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 10:43

because his jump shot form is prettier.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 10:47

Have you looked at his ppg average, OF COURSe he's better

No he's not worth a max deal

and new york fans are great, when a team is winning

The Greek reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 19:34

Better shooter
better scorer
better passer
better free throw shooter
he can actually stretch the defense
a better leader
and at least he has actually seen the 2 second round of the playoffs

He is also about to get way overpaid though

Better shooter - Agreed

Better scorer - Not really. He just took a ton more shots than Iguodala. True shooting percentage was basically even between the players last season, and that was Iguodala's worst season as a pro.

Better passer - False. Look it up.

Better free throw shooter - He has a better percentage, but doesn't get to the line nearly as much as Iguodala.

He can actually stretch the defense - Well, he's a league-average three-point shooter, but I wouldn't really call it a strength.

A better leader - Really? Under his "leadership" ATL got taken to 7 games by the Bucks, minus Bogut. Then they lost by 101 points in a 4 game series to the Magic. Here's a fun clip from the story about the loss of the fourth game:

Hawks star Joe Johnson finished off a miserable series by scoring only 14 points on 5-for-15 shooting. He was booed by the home crowd at the start of the game and got the same treatment when he went to the bench with 3:51 to play. The fans were still miffed that he said didn't care if they "showed up or not" after they heckled the team in a 30-point loss on Saturday.
"It doesn't bother me, man," said Johnson, who's last shot was a 25-foot airball as the shot clock ran down. "I've got thick skin. I've been booed louder than that."

Sure sounds like a leader to me. Is he tough enough for you?

and at least he has actually seen the 2 second round of the playoffs - two times he's barely scraped his way out of the first round (7 games both times) with home court advantage and then been thoroughly embarrassed in the second round. Swept both times. This is largely dependent on his team, but since you seem to think it's a sign of leadership, take a look at his career playoff numbers and tell me how great his killer instinct is.

Essentially, he's a moderately better shooter than Iguodala and that's it. Iguodala is even or better than him in every other legitimate area of the game. Iguodala's also 2 and a half years younger and he never misses a game.

Rich reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 20:37

I think both guys are kind of fringe #1 players with different skill sets. I think they would be very good on a team together as they would complement each other.

The Greek reply to Brian on Jun 30 at 8:42

Brian I wish I could share the same optimism about Iggy that you do dude, I just can't. Iggy's leadership or lack thereof really bothers me.

smh1980 on Jun 29 at 9:42

I don't think Joe Johnson is even close to being worth a max contract. He's a borderline all star each year. I would put him in the category of Monta Ellis/Chauncy Billips/Iguodala type money. 12-13 million max contract for JJ. It could be argued that he and Iggy have similar value if not equal.

BTW, what's up with Kate Fagan? Why is she not covering the sixers still? She was one of the few writers that I thought had an honest opinion of the team last year. I hope she's only taking a break for the off season.

smh1980 reply to smh1980 on Jun 29 at 10:05


Players who I think that would be worth MAX money this year or when possible in order of most deserving(potential/marketability/production):

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Melo
5. Durant
6. D. Howard
7. Paul
8. Deron Williams
9. Nash
10. Dirk Nowitzki
11. Bosh
12. Stoudemire

Sorry for leaving out older players that have Max contracts but don't deserve them now (T. Duncan.)

Feel free to argue this list but to me this is the order that players would deserve MAX deals.

IMO "max" players are guys who will get you past the first round even with a average supporting cast.

By that measure Lebron, D. Howard, Kobe, KG in his prime qualify. Probably Nash in his prime, Durant and Wade.

By that measure Bosh does not make the cut... but I would overpay if he was joining Lebron, since it would make Lebron more effective.

Kate Fagan is covering the World Cup, I assume she will be back and cover the 76ers again.

Brian, you hit the nail on the head above. But IA9 and Johnson are NOT worth the max. I personally believe he is being paid what he is worth now (as proven throughout the league of teams willing to trade for him).

Furthermore, I believe this year will be the year that the IA9 detractors will come around and appreciate the game he plays each night. I just hope he stops his antics on the court.

I think thats the problem with the nba. Giving these players that are 2nd tier stars max money. Joe Johnson is a 2nd option not a first. These teams need to bring these palyers down the reality. Iggy wasnt worth 80mil either and im a big fan. Max players wade lebron howard etc .... hell i would have even been hesitant to give kobe that max extension if the lakers wasnt in postion to win three more titles in a row.

I don't mind that we only took one player this year in the draft...this team is two years away from contention. Let our young guys get lots of time; shed our nasty contracts; maybe grab another lottery pick for the power forward and/or center position; and maybe add another piece through free agency. I would like to see the sixers hold onto iguodala because he is a rare combination of athletic ability and defense that is a good complimentary player if you have a good point guard. (please don't let us down jrue)

I would also like to see iggy turner and jrue together for the year. Iggy does alot for us and i dont see why we should trade him. The thing about iggy that is so go is if he isnt scoring hes giving us asts rebs stls hes always going to give u something. If anything we need to get out of that elton brand contract or lou williams and green as well iggy is def not the problem

Tom Moore on Jun 29 at 9:50

Don't think Johnson is worth the max, especially in this economy.

Especially with a new CBA on the horizon.

Tom Moore on Jun 29 at 9:52

Sixers begin mini-camp Thursday in Orlando, then start NBA Summer League July 5 with 7 p.m. game against Nets. They'll play one game a day through July 9.

Besides Holiday and Turner, I understand Speights and Meeks are expected to play. Heard that Hawes could be, too, but that's not definite.

Sixers expected to put out release on summer league roster today.

Iggy is worth keeping if he is comfortable playing a complimentary role. If he does not like being second fiddle, move him out!

Same with Williams, if he doesn't want to be the third guard off the bench, get what you can for him and move on.

Why---why do we continue to have so much talk on trading Iggy ? Iggy is a very good 2nd scoring option and a fantastic 3rd option for this team. If turner is our Jordan why cant he be our Pippen ? If he does what Collins asks him to do--play all NBA defense and go to the rim and draw fouls I don't think there is another small forward I would want in the entire league at his salary. (which takes out lebron, melo, and smith)

JohnEMagee reply to Gdog on Jun 29 at 10:55

As I understand t it's because he's a ball hog and a loser and doesn't score enough points.

Jason Mess on Jun 29 at 10:49

i think it is safe to say Johnson is not worth a max contract at his age. I would also say that both Johnson and
Iguodla are about even as far as who is worth more or the better player. I guess it really depends on how a team is made up. On some teams Johnson's value is higher on others it would be Iguodla. I do not think there is a clear cut winner.

Jason Mess on Jun 29 at 11:33

Question I was reading on SI.com about team needs.
Paul Forrester stated at then end of his team needs for the sixers as being 3 point shooting. I ask this because the sixers made a higher % of 3point shots than the Lakers did (per SI.com stats Sixers 474-1381 .343 Lakers 532-1561 .340) I never hear aynone say the lakers need more 3 point shooters. Another interesting stat Kobe 99-301, Andre 94-303 (it was a down year for Kobe most likely due to the his injury earlier in the year).

JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jun 29 at 11:37

The lakers also have 3 guys with great low post skills who are about 7 feet tall

the sixers don't

Jason Mess reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 29 at 11:44

I was thinking that but why then does he not just stick with saying we need a couple of low post scorers. Thus creating more open shots on the outside and most likely more made 3 point attempts. It just seemed like he based this more on reputation than actual fact. I do really hope Andre cuts his 3 point attempts by at leas 1/4 if not more.

JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jun 29 at 11:52

I have no idea, you'd have to ask him, maybe the problem is that while the lakers shot such a poor 3 point shot they weren't exactly giving them up at a league worst pace either (I don't know that for sure, just guessing)

I think they defended it better than anyone.

The Sixers weren't really that bad from three last season.

Jason Mess reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 29 at 11:56

You are right about that, I hope the 3 point D was all about EFJ shortcomings than talent. Also I don't know how Dalembert exit will affect that part of the defense.

JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jun 29 at 12:19

Haven't the sixers been pretty bad at the 3 since Brown left?

22nd in percentage last season, 13th in makes. That's significantly better than the prior couple seasons. Of course they did have two legit shooter last season, which is two more than the had the previous two years.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 12:51

Sorry, meant defensively only...the comment regarding the lakers being good at defending the three is what i was referring to?

Well, they were good under Cheeks at defending the three.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 12:58

36% against two seasons ago
36.7% last season
39.3% this season

Not trending well

And this was the first of those 3 years they didn't shoot the 3 god awful right?

I broke out last year's numbers at one point. They were in the 33-34% range under cheeks, then way up there under DiLeo.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 13:06


My favorite sixers 3 point stat was the one you asked me to look up regarding the 'rims' at the wachovia center, that was just bad

Brian, you've commented several times about wanting LeBron to fail. Why all the hate?

Mainly because he cares more about being a mogul than winning. All the douchey dancing and pregame photos make me want him to fail as well.

I agree, Brian. His holding the league hostage is really atrocious in my opinion. At some point last season, I realized how hilarious it would be if Lebron never won a title. Although I suppose I could tolerate his getting one really late in his career coming off the bench, like Gary Payton.

JohnEMagee reply to joeykey on Jun 29 at 12:21

It is 'hillarious' that he hasn't won a title in 7 years in the league...I mean by now Jordan had what? Six of them? Maybe 7? Jordan imediately took the league by storm and was winning championship after championship. He did it all by himself too, he never did it with one of the best coaches and team mates in the history of the NBA. It was all Jordan.

As for holding the league hostage? Please tell me how he is holding the 'league' hostage...he's holding the media hostage but that's the media doing it - he's a free agent which doesn't start until july 1st and he can't sign until july 8th.

Some of the 'hatred' towards lebron james is laughable - and really out of bounds - he's one of the most talented point forwards in the history of the game

John, I think you may have exceeded your daily recommended allowance of sarcasm... all in just one post.

JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jun 29 at 12:51

I have a note from my doctor...and notice i won't say a thing about someone linking to bleacher report :)

FWIW, I don't think Bosh is worth a Max deal either.

His team won 40 games last year...in the East. IMO, a Max guy isn't one where you have to pair him with somebody else - it's a guy who you get and make the lynchpin of your franchise.

JohnEMagee reply to CM on Jun 29 at 12:33

Whether or not he's a max guy or not I don't think you can blame HIM for the fact that his team was put together poorly and ran a terrible system...and that the turkoglu signing may have been one of the biggest free agent faux pas in decades.

I really don't think there are many max players in the NBA in general...I don't think Wade qualifies due to his injury history. Long term, if a free agent, would kobe be worth the max due to the mileage on his body in terms of nba years?

I don't think Bosh is worth more than Wade and I think both are worth less than Lebron

In terms of 'making money' for the teams, I think Bosh is a distant third to lebron and then wade, Bosh isn't a 'gate draw' the way Lebron and Wade are (which I'm sure are factors when deciding contract amounts)

Thing is, if lebron tells a team he wants bosh or he won't sign with them, that gives bosh all the power to get a max deal.

Course, the nba is littered with over paid players at almost every salary level. and so are most professional sports...just a fact of the system

Have you guys seen this?????


Top 10 Sixers of the decade. Guess who number 10 is??? Uuuuuuggggghhhhhhhh.

Bleacher Report is so unbelievably bad.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 12:59

I'm wondering what 'decade' they are referring to - as tyrone hill stopped playing for the sixers in 2001 - so if we're talking 2000-2010 - the decade is pretty short for Ty

The decade for the Sixers was unbelievably bad. Like starting at the top of the roller coaster and taking a long, slow ride down.

jkay reply to tk76 on Jun 29 at 13:55

yeah its a referendum on how bad this decade was.
Willie Green? lol
Derrick Coleman

Iguodala and Johnson are both on the same level for me. Iggy would have the edge if he played with more sense.
Its a free world so anyone can give him a max contract. after saving up all that cap space, teams will be forced to spend it when Bron rolls on. a lot of players are gonna get contracts they dont deserve.
Look for guys like Iguodala to become a consolation prize. If I was gonna trade him, I'd do it now or forget about it.

I really am excited about this free agency period, hopefully it plays out more interesting than the draft. they could shift the power structure in the Eastern conference. It all starts with James...

JohnEMagee reply to jkay on Jun 29 at 14:14
Tom Moore on Jun 29 at 16:11

Sixers' camp/summer league roster

Ryan Brooks G 6-4 200 Temple Rookie

Ndudi Ebi F 6-9 200 Westbury Christian HS (TX) 2 years pro

Mike Green G 6-1 175 Butler R

DeVon Hardin C 6-11 250 California R

Jrue Holiday G 6-4 180 UCLA 1

Jason Love F-C 6-9 265 Xavier R

Jodie Meeks G 6-4 208 Kentucky 1

Obi Muonelo G-F 6-5 220 Oklahoma State R

Trent Plaisted F-C 6-11 245 Brigham Young R

Cedric Simmons F 6-9 235 North Carolina State 3

Marreese Speights F-C 6-10 245 Florida 2

Evan Turner G 6-7 214 Ohio State R

Sean(RSWKnight) reply to Tom Moore on Jun 29 at 16:21

IMO, the Dark Horses are Hardin and Ebi. They might warrant training camp invites and Hardin was a quality athletic banger in college

Thanks for the update Tom.
Hardin and Plaisted could be interesting.

Trent has been playing in Europe, so hopefully he has improved his game a bit.
Hardin did OK in the D league, hopefully it helped improve his basketball skills. He can play defense, and has the physical tools.

Chris reply to Tom Moore on Jun 29 at 18:34

Hardin used to be a defensive force at Cal when Ryan Anderson went there. Considering what else they have on the team for bigs he could be a good fit.

Tom Moore reply to Chris on Jun 29 at 20:30

Hardin worked out for the Sixers before deciding to return to Cal for his senior year (I believe). He has a big body and was quite physical. The Sixers could use somebody like him to be able to bang a little.

Jason Love could be intriguing. Nice size at 6'9 265 and he was productive at Xavier.

Rich reply to Tom Moore on Jun 29 at 20:35

A ton of Philly flavor on the summer league team. Brooks from Lower Merion, Mike Green from Franklin Learning Center, Jason Love from Abington Friends. I'd like to see them all do well, but Love warrants a look as a quality banger that could get an invite to training camp.

Hardin and Simmons could also get the invite for the same type of role.

Tom Moore on Jun 29 at 16:12

Simmons has played 75 games with four NBA teams. Brooks is the former Temple shooting guard.

Simmons has gone from top 15 pick to a year where he played for Idaho, Athens and in China...

johnrosz on Jun 29 at 16:44

I know a lot of people around here (and the league it seems) cannot stand Michael Beasley. But I have to ask, if the Sixers plan to follow the OKC model, and amass as much young talent as they possibly can...wouldn't it be wise to buy low on a guy like Beasley? He is still a very young player. Just seems like a no brainer to grab him, and if he doesn't pan out, it's not like you'd have to give up a lot to obtain him...

Jason Mess reply to johnrosz on Jun 29 at 17:14

Solid thinking, but I do not think the player matches what we need. He may be listed as and play power forward but not the type of power forward that would suit the team best.

johnrosz reply to Jason Mess on Jun 29 at 17:19

This team isn't constructed to win anyway. They've got gaping holes in the front court. If they aren't trying to win immediately, and would rather just collect pieces, Beasley seems like a fit. Gather talent now, worry about playing time later

Jason Mess reply to johnrosz on Jun 29 at 17:34

He would become the second best rebounding PF next to Brand and I guess you could play him at PF and Brand at center. At least until we get a better long term option at Center.

JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jun 29 at 17:46

Miami seems to be looking for contract space to be able to max out three guys in a trade for beasley

sixers have none to offer

johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 29 at 17:59

They have some expiring contracts though, I would think they could go out and deal a Green or Kapono for the kind of cap space type asset that Miami would want in return for Beasley. You're right though, couldn't get it done in a direct trade with Miami.

That's not really how it works. They need a team with cap space to take on Beasley's contract (or someone with a trade exception, like Orlando). Or someone with a team option than can be bought out immediately (Dampier is the only one I can think of off the top of my head). The Sixers can only offer cap space in the form of like $1,000,000 in a trade for Beasley, by sending less money (125% of Beasley's contract + $100,000). Any number of teams can do better than that. Plus, Beasley kind of blows and he's neither a solid character guy, nor a hard worker.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 18:19

The heat will have TWO guys under contract come july 1.

You need 13, ought to be interesting the flotsam and jetsam the heat try to pass off with minimum salary contracts

Beasley is an expiring contract (RFA) after this next year...

JohnEMagee on Jun 29 at 18:20

Miami could deal SuperCoolBeas for a guy with an unguaranteed deal, 3 examples off the top of my head:

1) Dampier
2) Delonte West => I bet CLE is dying to help them out...
3) Isn't Willie Green's deal only partially guaranteed?

JohnEMagee reply to CM on Jun 29 at 18:43

Wille Green has a player option that he's picking up - making it fully guaranteed

Chris reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 29 at 18:54

Is WG an expiring this year? Maybe he can be moved for something of value come the trade deadline.

JohnEMagee reply to Chris on Jun 29 at 19:02

Yes, and I guess - but would have been better this year :)

You should update you're roster

It's on my list. May be able to get to it tonight.

It's updated now.

I think if he gets 80 more points the Sixers would have to consider retiring Speights' summer league jersey.

Send it to the rafters next to Salmons, and the Lou's (Williams and Amundson.)

It's really a shame we won't get to see CDR and Speights battling to get up 30 shots each this summer.

JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jun 29 at 20:25

Speights assist numbers, over under set at 5

total - for all the games

If he puts in his own miss... is that an assist, or just a rebound?

JohnEMagee reply to tk76 on Jun 29 at 20:32

That's 1/2 a reggie evans offensive rebound (only a full evans offensive rebound if he misses the put back as well)

SL, Speights is "in a Rhythm"... I love this dude!

2010 highlights (probably all of his assists included)


Speights SL highlights... "I love this dude"

And Speight's 2009/10 highlights- which might include every assist he made... and nary a donut.


Almost makes it look like he had a good season.

Old School Sixer Fan reply to tk76 on Jun 29 at 21:00

All you said is true, but Mo Speights could be the key to the Sixers season if he buys in and plays decent defense. We all know he can score. If he can get to the point where he is not a liability at the defensive end, he could start at PF instead of Brand or at center in place of Hawes.

johnrosz reply to tk76 on Jun 29 at 20:49

That guy that says "I love this dude" is the guy on NBATV. Rick Kamla, maybe the most overeager and irritating host/commentator I've ever had the displeasure of watching.

JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jun 29 at 20:59

He really is terrible, he also hosts their 'fantasy insider'

NBA TV is the worst of the 'league' networks and I ahaven't even watch the NHL channel but I bet it's better

johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 29 at 21:04

The ill advised enthusiasm is what kills me. He goes out of his way to talk about the damn TWolves because of his ties. "Ho Ho my boy Al Jefferson DOIN WORK for MAH WOLVES tonight!!!" (usually putting up like 18 and 10 in a 15 point loss) Yeah NBA TV is bad, but really how can anyone compete with the NFL network and the greatness that is the RedZone channel on Sundays?

JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jun 29 at 21:07

The Red Zone channel has nothing to do with NFL Network - it's NFL games but it's not part of the network (because I have NFL network, and cox cable so i have no access to the red zone). I'm just talking about folk they have covering their game...sure MLB is bad, guys who still think ERA, Wins, HR's and RBI's are the best way to judge a player and walks are for sissies - but the NBA (much like ESPN does) has the WORST overall coverage of its own sport, it's truly pathetic

The Greek reply to JohnEMagee on Jun 30 at 8:46

Lol you probably like dooschebags like Bucher and you shit on people who know the in's and out's of the league like Kamla. Shocker

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