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Pressing Questions - 7/2

Really interested to see what the guys who probably should get around mid-level money will end up with. Those are all absurd numbers. At least we can all hopefully agree that Joe Johnson is way overpaid. Same for Rudy Gay. Same for everyone. Iguodala may look like a steal in people's eyes at this point. The guys who I'm interested in-

Ray Allen, JJ Redick, Kyle Korver, David Lee are the type of guys I'm interested in. Do they get absurd deals too? An absurd deal for those guys is a lot of dough too considering what we saw today.

I thought people were crazy when they were saying more than MLE level money for Mike Miller, I guess they weren't.

What about Felton? Are we talking like 5 years, $40M for him? He's barely a starting PG in the league.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 0:40
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No PGs posted a bad number yet, but on a player scale, probably. His numbers are better than John Salmons, who got that.

Holy shit at the Drew Gooden deal. 32 million dollars now? He's a stiff. He's been on 6 teams in the last two seasons and now he gets 32 MILLION DOLLARS? Wow.....

Of the ones there I'd say Joe Johnson is the worst as he's getting the absolute maximum. Yeah, he is a good player but at 6 years he'll be 35-36 when it ends.

While I like his game a great deal, Amir Johnson is way overpaid. Channing Frye is also way overpaid. Everyone else is overpaid, just not as egregiously.

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Chris reply to Chris on Jul 2 at 0:35
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Brian,

Once this is (mostly) over you should do a post about who actually got a good deal on a player as that would seem to be the exception(s).

I'd say no one got a good deal yet. It's early, though. There's no way Jefferson gets a big deal after the season he had last year, is there?

Also read today that a ton of teams are interested in Morrow.

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Jeff reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 0:45
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What do you think Morrow would go for?

Full MLE, I guess. Considering the deals that were handed out today. That's too much for him, though.

You know, when you look at these deals, Lou Williams might be underpaid. And if that's the case, please, please find someone who's interested in him.

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Jeff reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 2:41
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Everytime I've listened to away game commentators, they've always been in love with Lou. If this carries over to other teams' mentalities, he should be ripe for the picking.

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Dutch reply to Jeff on Jul 2 at 8:46
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Agreed 100%. Please make this happen, Ed.

Here's the craziest thing. The reining NBA executive of the year has done the following so far this offseason:

- traded for Corey Maggette and the $31M remaining on his contract

- traded for CDR

- signed Drew Gooden for $32M

- in the process of signing John Salmons for $39M

That's a commitment of roughly $103M for three guys who play the same position and a journeyman PF. Plus, he's got Michael Redd coming back (at $18.3M) to play that same position, plus Carlos Delfino. That's five SGs under contract for roughly $46M in this coming season. Delfino and Maggette can play the three as well, though, so I'm sure everything will work out fine.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 0:56
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I guess he got lucky with Jennings although I don't know if Jennings' career projects as well as other guards in this class. He hired a good coach a few years ago, but it's too bad that the same coach usually makes his team sick at about the 3 year mark. That's going to be a disaster this year. The Drew Gooden deal blows my mind how you can pay a guy 32 MIL who has been on 6 teams in the past 2 seasons. Six!

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JohnEMagee reply to Brian on Jul 2 at 13:04
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I don't get re-signing Salmons after getting Maggette and CDR (who I"m not impressed with) - I thought getting those two was to make up for losing Salmons?

Jesus I can't believe Gooden is going to be paid for 5 more years to sit on the bench. He must be a great coach to younger players or something.

I'm trying to imagine the negotiating for Gooden. I know he had a good 2H on the defunct clips thanks to injuries but this guy is aloof out on the court. He does board reasonably well and I guess if the other option as Amir Johnson, maybe Milwaukee didn't do THAT bad. ;)

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Sean(RSWKnight) on Jul 2 at 1:44
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I wonder if Stern is gnashing his teeth about Heisley and the Atlanta Spirit Group. For the record, Johnson's deal is the worst, by far. An epically horrid contract. It is an albatross already and it hasn't even been signed yet.

Don't get me wrong, Gay's deal is bad too, but there is a slight chance that he could blow up as a young player and become worth it. Johnson isn't worth half that now, much less in 2-3-4-5 years, when he becomes yet another small forward on the roster because he is no longer able guard 2s.

In fact, when you take into the situations of each franchise into account, it might be already worse than Arenas' deal. At least Wall could be a big enough gate draw on his own to help Washington offset the cost of Arenas. ATL OTOH? They can't draw now as a 50-win playoff team, is Jordan Crawford going to help that? Doubt it. Their financial structure is screwed for years.

Horford's coming up next year too, so can they afford to let him go after going all-in on Johnson?

Just a horrible, horrible deal.

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AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 7:37
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anyone who signs joe johnson to a max deal should be fired/

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AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 7:42
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thank god the sixers dont have any money or we would be locking up one of glorious $hitbags.\

the johnson deal is obviously the worst - purley from magnitute. yeah gooden is a stiff, but $6mm , who cares.

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 13:06
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but $6mm , who cares.

More than 10% of the salary cap for a stiff...yeah, that's exactly what's wrong, people think 6 million for a stiff ISNT a big deal, and if it isn't why is 23 million a big deal for a guy who is actually GOOD?

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:18
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6 mill for a guy who deserves 3 or 4 isnt a big deal. paying 18 for someone worth 7 is.

Looking at these guys, for my imaginary team with no distinctive direction or needs, I guess I would put the players in this order for what I want...

Amir Johnson - 5 years/$34M
Nikola Pekovic - 4 years/$13M
Darko Milicic - 4 years/$20M
Drew Gooden - 5 years/$32M
John Salmons - 5 years/$39M
Channing Frye - 5 years/$30M
Rudy Gay - 5 years/$82M
Joe Johnson - 6 years/$119M

I would only want 1, though, Amir. And that is mostly because I have an unhealthy affinity for him. The rest I would avoid greatly. (I know nothing about Pekovic)

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deepsixersuede on Jul 2 at 8:09
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Minn. has 3 players that can!t guard p.f.!s and another [Love] that might be able to. They may end up giving Jefferson away. Derek, would love your opinion on Pekovic and would you go after him if you were the Sixers.[Spieghts?]

Milwaukee must think Bogut and Jennings are or will be stars because they are adding all role players now but Redd coming off the books next year may help as far as their cap situation.I liked their draft and thought Sanders and Gallon would fortify their frontcourt but the Gooden signing was a surprise.

I love the NBA, I really do. But when a day like yesterday happens, I die a little inside.

DARKO WHAT? GOODEN 5??? joe johnson blows

quick stat from hollinger Gooden fouls 7 times per 40 minutes.

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eddies' heady's on Jul 2 at 9:40
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To me, MIL is putting together a nice squad. They are approaching top 3 in the eastern conference. I'd rather have Salmons/Gooden at 14 mil per than just Iguodala at 14 mil per. Or Maggette/Gooden at around 16 mil per than Brand at 16 mil. Hell, Brand isn't really that much better than Gooden, if at all. And when you compare the salaries it isn't even close. Gooden at 6 mil per - Brand at 16 mil per - that makes it a no brainer.

PG-Jennings
SG-Salmons (with Redd/CDR providing different type backups)
SF-Maggette (one of the most efficient shooters in the league w/Delfino or even Salmons as worthy backups)
PF-Gooden/Mbah a Moute/Ilyasova
C-Bogut

As of today, I'd take that team over ours in a second. Wish we had Hammonds instead of Stefanski, I'll tell you that.

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Jason Mess reply to eddies' heady's on Jul 2 at 10:10
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I would like to have there center after that I would take the Sixers players over the Bucks just my opinion.

Comparing other teams GM decisions to Stefanski's is faint praise. To say contracts are dramatically better than Brand's is going to be true for 99.5% of the contracts in the NBA.

And to go down the road of 2 average players are better than 1 really good one (Iguodala) is asking for mediocrity.

Gooden is a lousy player. Salmons and Maggetti are average players. The more PT and dollars you commit to those players the less likely you will be able to get the star type players that make you contenders.

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eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Jul 2 at 11:45
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That one good player (Dre) has delivered nothing but mediocrity too, no?

Sure, none of the three mentioned are stars but Salmons can give you the points that Dala gives you and Gooden can give you double the boards that Dala gives you - with both salaries combined and not tied up into one player.

I wasn't just saying contracts are obviously better than Brand's, I was merely responding to previous comments of how Gooden was given the farm and how surprising it was to some. You compare the two as players first, and then factor in their salaries, and it's not even close. Around here, we hope that EB can give us close to 15 and 10 which is what Gooden can do with regularity when given the minutes.

And Gooden isn't a lousy player for only 6 mil per year. He will gobble up boards at a pretty good rate and can knock down shots with good range for his size.

And why assume that MIL doesn't already have 2 potentially star players? Ergo, they were in need of continued ascension by adding role players.

And seriously, even if they don't have 2 star players already, what stars are going to go to Milwaukee, for crying out loud, as free agents to make them contenders?

"Gooden can give you double the boards that Dala gives you"


Iggy got 6.5 a game last year----not too bad for an SF. Gooden is a big man. Your point in that post would be equivalent to me saying that id rather have monta ellis and troy murphy over dwyane wade because monta ellis can replace his points and murphy will get you more boards. And for the record, I don't think the gooden and salmons signings are that bad. I just don't see how iguodala's contract has anything to do with this.

"He will gobble up boards at a pretty good rate and can knock down shots with good range for his size."

Yes that explains why Cleveland always started over Varejao over him when they needed boards. Or why LeBron couldn't wait to get rid of him when Gooden kept missing wide open jumpers.

"I'd rather have Salmons/Gooden at 14 mil per than just Iguodala at 14 mil per."

Have you ever actually seen Gooden play? He's an awful, awful player. I'd take Iggy over those two stiffs any day.

I heard on NBA TV, I believe, that Atlanta offered JJohnson the max because they will not be the owner in a couple years. So they did not care about the contract being a problem in a couple years.......

The money Amir and Gooden got makes Nocioni look like a bargain, no? ;)

Brand's contract isn't looking too bad either looking at Gay / Johnson.

No :)

2yrs 14M is too much for Nocioni regardless if other mistakes some teams are making.

The team had some cap space next summer... and instead they get Nocioni.

Joe Johnson is the worst, especially given his performance in the playoffs. Definitely a deal made with the heart, rather than the brain.

2 more questions ...

1) If that rumor of the Nuggs trying to trade Melo was true, what would you be willing to give up to get him?

AI9 and Lou Will work under the cap, but that may be high for a player that will be gone next year.

(This question is purely hypothetical, so no need for the "why would he want to play here" response)

2) Assume Nets strike out in FA. What do you offer for Favors? If the Nets are really in "win now" mode like the owner says, then maybe they would at least listen to offers for him.

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Dutch reply to Joe on Jul 2 at 10:46
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For Melo? Iggy, Lou, and next year's first round pick better be enough to get it done. In a sense, it might even be overpaying, but we'd have to do it.

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Joe reply to Joe on Jul 2 at 10:51
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Melo? Nothing that they would take. Anyone that would give up Iguodala for a 1 year rental is just silly.

I think the idea would be that he signed an extension with the deal. I'd trade Iggy, lou/thad/speights whatever for that. Jrue/Turner/Anthony is pretty nice.

That's how I saw it as well, Rodney. I agree with your thinking... I'd give up Iggy + anyone but Jrue or Evan to get the deal done... and, as I said, I'd throw in next year's pick as well.

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JohnEMagee reply to Joe on Jul 2 at 13:08
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1) If that rumor of the Nuggs trying to trade Melo was true, what would you be willing to give up to get him?

The rumor is that if Melo won't sign a contract extension by a set deadline they'd explore trading him - that deadline hasn't approached yet.

And if the Nuggets are trading melo, they should look at trading billups and starting the rebuilding process sooner rather than later (something the sixers have never ever learned) and thus obtaining Iguodala would make no sense - in my opinion

Ok so now we can trade Lou to Indy, stop them from trading Granger to the Nets and then trade Iggy to the Nets for Favors and Humphrey. This all assume that the Nets don't get Lebron and then must go after Amare/Bosh/Boozer. At least then up up with a full starting squad as opposed to Riley who will surely get desperate by tomorrow

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JohnEMagee reply to Bill on Jul 2 at 13:10
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Huh?

I think Amir can put up really good numbers with more minutes.

I think Brand will remain the worst contract in the league. He was a max contract player last year and didnt even start. Im thinking Brand may be one of the five worst contracts of all time. (barring rookie deals) what do you guys think ?

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JohnEMagee reply to Gdog on Jul 2 at 13:09
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It's his fault the coach was a moron?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a max deal
I'm pretty sure Gilbert Arenas MAKES more for MORE years and has missed the majority of the past 3 seasons

but yeah, you're right, Brands the worst contract in the NBA

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 13:16
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arenas has at least played at a high level when he plays. brand is barely a starter at this point, sadly due to some terrible injuries. hopefully he can bounce back from the EJ era, play 82 games and produce something of value

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 13:17
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He produces more value than Gilbert Arenas

He also isn't causing issues for a franchise that is embarassing on every level

He also makes less money

For less years

But sure, Arenas contract isn't as bad

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 13:23
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ok, so is your point that brand is the #2 worst contract. I concede, John, mercy ! now what does that do for you ? the fact that there is even a discussion and we hold anything resembling one of the TEN worst contracts in the league is terrible. 1 or 2? who cares? it doesnt make me sleep better knowing we have the 2nd worst contract in the league.

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 17:07
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Magee why do you feel the need to defend the Brand contract? If it isn't the worst contract in the league, it's very very close. We're splitting hairs here, we both know its a horrendous deal. Just because Elton is a hard worker and a decent guy doesn't mean he has earned a penny of that contract.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 17:12
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Because I'm tired of running out of places to find INTELLIGENT sixers discussion, and this place is being taken over by 3-5 people who mainly stick to name calling and insulting players and then those who contradict them (with facts)

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 17:17
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It just surprises me because I know you aren't a big fan of Stefanski. As one of his detractors, I would think you'd be all over the underwhelming production of Brand. When Stefanski is inevitably fired, I think the "Philly Max" will unfortunately become his legacy.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 17:24
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Hindsight, as they say, is 20-20. There were VERY few people out there criticizing this signing when it happened, be it the talking heads who now call it the worst contract in the league or the fans who now want brand strung up. In fact more people were moaning about Iguodala's max contract then they were the Brand contract.

Did the contract pan out - nope - it didn't - but at the time - most people thought it was a freaking coup to get Brand.

Whereas, when the idiot GM in wizards land signed Areanas to his 100 mil deal combined with Jamision, I said at the time it was a bad signing. People who think arenas is a great basketball player are the people who would trade andre iguodala for monta ellis cause they think ellis is a better player.

I was for the brand contract at the time (and so were most of the people here - whether they admit it now) and it didn't pan out. If I were a wizards fan, i would have wanted the GM strung up the summer he signed all those crap contracts...

You can make an astonishing case for Stefanski being fired even without the Brand contract turning out badly.

I also realize that Stefanski is working for an ownership, whose 3 most important factors when going into the following season are Luxury Tax, Luxury Tax, Luxury Tax.

Stefanski will take the blame for not making any moves this off season, but I believe his handcuffed by his ownership. So I don't think firing stefanski makes a damn bit of difference because you have the same ownership.

Until the corporate folk sell the sixers, the best we're going to get is the mediocre first round losses because they don't get how basketball fandom works in Philadelphia, they don't really show up until you win.

And a 'star' only holds them so long if you aren't winning...(Iversons last few years, attendance got worse and worse each year I believe)

I'm with you John.

I think there are two potentially big positives for Elton this year:

1) He's another year removed from the Achilles

2) He doesn't have the miles on his legs that others his age do due to injuries/missed time.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rodney Buford on Jul 2 at 17:39
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I wouldn't say I'm hopeful abtou Brands season (especially if the sixers believe playing him at the center is a good idea) but I'd rather be dealing with him as a player and influence on the sixers than arenas :)

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 17:53
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I was skeptical for a few reasons. The injury being my primary concern. I also don't always buy into "20 and 10" because I think they can be hollow numbers, especially coming from a guy on a bad team. Zack Randolph, Al Jefferson are guys that can give you that production too...You're right though, hindsight is 20-20 on the Philly Max.

I just don't get why a majority of the fan base defends Elton. They claim that Elton's production suffered because of a lack of minutes. I think Eddie Jordan is an idiot, but he was right for benching Elton. The fans attacked EJ when he said Brand wasn't a 40 minute per night player...The guy was right. I'm curious what the apologists will say this year when Elton grabs 5 boards per game.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 18:00
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but he was right for benching Elton.

I don't believe he was.

And most fans I see don't defend Brand...most fans think he's the devil...

Next year, when Collins plays him at center, it'll be Brands fault when the sixers are grossly killed on the defensive boards.

I don't look at 20/10 and say 'oh boy' either - because it's just a counting stat that ignores how the 20-10 was obtained

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Jason Mess reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 18:10
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I think he will grab more than 5 boards a game, if only because Dalembert is gone. I do not bash on Brand because he has had two big injuries in the last what 3-4 years and then he had to play with a coach who did not try and adapt his style enough to the players he had. That is just part of what can happen. Like they say the draft is a crap shoot so is free agency. You never know what will happen.

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johnrosz reply to Jason Mess on Jul 2 at 18:17
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I don't know if I can agree that free agency is a crap shoot. The draft can be a crap shoot because you never truly know how a players skill set/makeup will translate at the next level. There is a large body of NBA work to go of off when making an analysis of a free agent. I don't want my GM throwing up his hands and saying "hey what can ya do? i took a chance and it didn't work out" when he doles out 80 million to a lumbering power forward coming off of a devastating ankle injury.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 18:24
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john , where do you read your info? i never even once said brands contract was #1, you obviously dont read the posts.

it is hindsight, i dont criticize stefanski because at the time, i was pro-brand. that doesnt mean i dont regret it. it doesnt mean its a good contract. its terrible

you are the one being an a$$ hole to everyone all the time for no reason, hiding behind your computer you little pu$$y, dont even try to make it sound like you are the good guy.

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johnrosz reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 18:49
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I'm assuming that response wasn't intended for me. If it was, what the hell did I do to ruffle your feathers? I wasn't even talking to you

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 19:11
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lol obviously not to you. sorry man

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JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 13:03
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Warrick has supposedly agreed to a deal with the suns - pierce a 4 year extension with the celtics (for not max per year money)

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JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 13:18
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Warrick's reported deal (4 years $18 mil) seems a downright bargain.

Arenas is a bad contract also. But when he plays he is the best player on his team. Brand didnt even start for a lot of the year. Now you can say he had injuries...I get that. But he hasnt played like an all star since hes been here. So because Ed didnt do his due diligence in giving him some type of physical to see if he can still play, because he was bought here to a team that was a running fast break team(which was obvious from day one that he didnt fit)---Brands contract is the worst in the league and top 5 worst contracts OF ALL TIME. Arenas was given a contract when he was playing at an all star level and he was the face of the franchise. BIG difference. He turned into an a hole later but at the time it wasnt THAT bad of a move to extend him.

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JohnEMagee reply to Gdog on Jul 2 at 14:05
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But when he plays he is the best player on his team.

That's a matter of opinion, he had a crappy roster to play with (especially after they traded away their even marginally good players)

You're right, the sixers probably signed Elton brand without doing a physical or consulting any doctors, because that's how you keep a job long term.

All this Brand ranting and raving makes it seem like there isn't a history of bad contract littering the NBA for the majority of franchises out there.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 14:41
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great argument john! everyone else is signing bad contracts, so its ok!

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JohnEMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 17:01
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Well, i fight fire with fire, your opinions (not facts) about Arenas contract not being as bad as Brands were entertaining and laughable, so I thought I'd return the favor.

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 17:12
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They are both devastating contracts, but the argument could be made that the younger Arenas might still have a few productive years in the tank if he can somehow get his head out of his ass. I think it's very unlikely that you'll get anything above 13 and 6 from Elton the rest of his career.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 17:18
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And the argument could be made that Gilbert Arenas missed 2 of those 3 season with the same injury to his ankle, and as somone who has had repeated injuries to the same ankle in his life, I can tell you that things like that make your ankle more prone to injury...

There's all this talk on this place about how great it is to get rid of sam because he was a 'locker room cancer' (or whatever such nonsense people use as oppose to examining the facts and seeing he was a good ball player), and one could argue that a player who missed the majority of the past season for PULLING A GUN ON A TEAMMATE and has a career of actions that could indicate he cares more about his own ego than his teams winning is problably MUCH WORSE of an influence on young players than a guy like Brand who only had issues when his coach was a giant buffoon throwing EVERYONE under the bus.

Who would you rather have trying to influence John Wall and getting the 'great' andray blatche to behave like a professional basketball player, Gilbert Areans or Elton Brand?


In summation

1. Arenas ruins the wizards cap in terms of years AND money longer than Brand ruins the sixers cap.
2. To those who value the 'veteran presence' in the locker room for young impressionable players, I choose the one who didn't miss most of last season for bringing guns to the locker room, drawing them on a team mate, and the one who doesn't have the history of egotism indicated by his blogging history and constantly carrying the chip of being the second round pick
3. I believe a 3rd ankle injury is more likely to knock arenas out than another injury take out brand.

And that ignores the fact that Arenas game is quite similar to Iversons game, so I expect he's going to be quite happy not being the focus of the franchise next year.

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:00
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I think Arenas has been hampered with knee issues more so than ankle issues. I'm not really defending either contract. I guess Brand is the lesser of two evils because he isn't going to bring anyone down with him. You also forgot to mention that Arenas took a dump in Blatche's shoe during his rookie hazing. That's my favorite Agent Zero moment.

You sure that Elton isn't at high risk of reinjury? I recall him having soreness in his healthy achilles down the stretch last year. That should be a major red flag.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 18:04
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You also forgot to mention that Arenas took a dump in Blatche's shoe during his rookie hazing. That's my favorite Agent Zero moment.

I didn't know that - or I would have mentioned it

I mean I know the maddux brothers pee on people - but that's baseball (or was)

I didn't mention brands chance of reinjury because I have no person experience with achilles problems - I was diagnosed with arthritis in my left ankle in my mid 20s - i had broken it playing volleyball when i was around 18 - sprained it quite a few times - and then they found spurs and fragments when they diagnosed the arthritis.

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:10
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"Former Wizards coach Eddie Jordan and his staff privately intimated they felt undermined by Grunfeld when it came to matters of discipline with Arenas. Arenas, a notorious practical joker, often crossed the line of acceptable decorum. The example often cited was how Arenas once defecated in teammate Andray Blatche's shoe during Blatche's rookie season. His behavior often went unchecked and unpunished, said a former team employee on condition of anonymity."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/09/AR2010010902200.html

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:28
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the law can pretend all they want that arenas is a bad guy and they are protecting the public. the guy is wortth 100mm. im not threatened by him having a gun or bringing unloaded guns to the locker room or owning guns. im worried about thugs on the street. so please give it up already. lame attempt to make it look like justice is or should be equal. while you are at it, keep stopping clean cut americans in suits at the airport

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Jason Mess reply to Gdog on Jul 2 at 17:43
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Not even close. Brand should have started more games/played more minutes when healthy last year, cant blame the player when the coach does not play him. His production was not as bad as it might seem. Average min. per game prior to becoming a Sixer 37.9 after becoming a Sixer (one injury year and one year in EJ fantasy world) 31.05. PPG prior to becoming a sixer 19.9 after 13.45. That is .526315 points per min. prior to and .4331723 after. That with 7.4 less min. a game, and playing in some gosh awful lineup/rotations. I agree it is not a great contract but given what has happened he has a couple of years to improve how this contract looks. If anything I think there have been several contracts that have been much worse (Stephon Marbury).

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JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jul 2 at 17:46
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They may play on 'better' teams - but paying close to 120 million for joe johnson or rashard lewis seems nutty too

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Jason Mess reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:00
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Right.

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JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 17:43
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Who Chris Paul be playing for by next February? How long do his veiled 'trade me' comments last before he just openly says to the media - i want to be traded cause i'm tired of this cheap ownership?

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Jason Mess reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 17:52
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I have to agree with you John about Brand (I did like Josh Smith a little better) I liked the singing and have no problem with it right now. I would like to judge a contract and a players value for how much he was given after the contract is over. Also hope that Brand plays more at the 4 vs. the 5, depending on the match up.

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JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jul 2 at 18:01
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(I did like Josh Smith a little better) I

And so did a lot of people, but I think the Hawks would have matched any deal he was offfered

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johnrosz reply to Jason Mess on Jul 2 at 18:04
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Elton was brought in here to try to make this team a legitimate contender in the East. They were supposed to be a top 3 or 4 seed after the signing. The nucleus of Miller Iguodala and Brand (foolishly) had been expected to make this team competitive. I just don't understand how you can be ok with role player production from a guy with an 80 million dollar price tag. Just out of curiosity, would you be more critical of Brand if he were less of a character guy?

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 18:09
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I never believed that the Brand made the sixers a top 3-4 team in the east - and I never believed they were going to sign Miller to a long term deal.

If Miller was supposed to be part of the nucleus - why let him go without seeing what he can do with brand - but that's not on stefanski (in my mind) that's on comcast and luxury tax luxury tax luxury tax.

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johnrosz reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:13
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I know Sports Illustrated had them as a 4 seed, and I believe Hollinger noted them a contender in the East. I didn't think they could contend either, but the idea was out there.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 18:20
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I had a list of reasons that they wouldn't contend last year, new coach, integrating new players (including Brand since he missed the season before), and like last year, going into this year, I don't give a crap about overall record. This roster is still the nba equivalent (to me) of the island of mismatched toys - more so now that rebounding seems unimportant - and brands numbers probably don't make the top 5 of things I care about

Turner
Holiday
Young
Speights
Iguodala
Hawes I guess just cause he's on the damn team
Meeks
Kapono and Willie playing well enough to be more than just expiring contracts at the deadline
Lou Williams conning somebody into trading for him as a back up point guard

All those thing matter more to me than Elton Brand because in the NBA, seemingly more so than other sports leagues, the memes last forever...dalembert still is a bad player with a bad contract to many, no matter how good brand plays the 'untradeable meme' will probably last another 18 months before people even stop talking about it...unless of course he's putting up like 25/10 and leading the sixers to ecf (which I think has as much chance as Stefanski getting a second GM job after he is fired (too late) in Philly)

Elton Brand is a sunk cost, the sixers are stuck with him, and his performance matters very little to me because even at his 'peak' this roster isn't a contender in my mind.

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Jason Mess reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 18:53
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Yeah I would be more critical of him. I look at it this way, he did not injure himself by being stupid, he was not lazy about his re-hab or not listen to his Doctors as far as we know. He just got injured not his fault not the Sixers it just happens. This is why the NFL is better than the NBA right now as far as money goes. A NFL team can drop a non-producing player, and not be tied to a contract for it's full term. That a NBA team can not is not Brands fault. IF the NBA had NFL rules we could have cut him and he could be earning a much more reasonable salary on a different team.

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JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jul 2 at 18:55
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I believe that non guaranteed contracts are going to be a huge sticking point in the CBA discussions that will cause the lockout a year from now. I think it should be as important as the BRI number to the owners...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/frank_hughes/07/02/free.agent.spending/

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Jason Mess reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 19:05
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Good read, I don't agree with everything said but still that does not make it a good read.

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JohnEMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jul 2 at 19:08
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I thought it was an interesting read

Rashard Lewis

Second highest paid player in the game

That means he makes more than Dwight Howard :)

You can argue about Iguodala and Brand on the sixers, but you can't say there are players on the roster who have earned bigger salaries than Iguodala and Brand make.

The Magic doesn't pay its best (with major holes he seems uninterested in fixing) the most salary

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Chris reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 19:17
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Great point on the guaranteed contracts John.

I think it is the single biggest problem in the NBA, by far. You almost never see guys in the NFL dogging it as they can be cut. You have a lot of guys in the NBA who once they 'get theirs' don't put in any effort whatsoever. I think the contract should gold once the season starts but at the end of the year you should be allowed to cut guys without any penalties. As it stands right now, if you make a mistake on signing someone (for whatever reason) you are often stuck for many years.

One thing I will say. The Players Association will fight to be fully guaranteed to the death.

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JohnEMagee reply to Chris on Jul 2 at 19:20
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You have a lot of guys in the NBA who once they 'get theirs' don't put in any effort whatsoever.

I don't know if that's true - but sometimes players don't play up to the value of the contract - for whatever reason.

As I understand most NFL long term contracts, there are guaranteed portions and non guaranteed portions (and pro rated bonuses)...it's complicated, VERY complicated, and I honestly believe the NBA doesn't want it to be complicated, but it has to be to work.

One thing I heard thrown out there during the NHL negotiations was arbitration. What if you had a 3rd party impartial guy and if a team feels a player isn't playing up to his deal, they can sit with the arbitrater and ask for an adjustment of the contract...based on performance (Obviously it's not that simple, but I'm just saying)

Non Sequitir - anyone here ever read fair ball by costas?

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JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:23
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Washington Wizards Gilbert Arenas has chosen a new number for the 2010-2011 season. Arenas is listed as No.9 on the Wizard's website.

I found this funny. Moves like this are usually made by 'super stars' to boost lagging jersey sales...

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Marty reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:38
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The only thing that would be funnier is if he switched it to #38 or #45.

Just out of curiosity - what are the three best contracts/values right now in the NBA for good to great players (not minimum guys who contribute a little or rookie deals)? Mine would be Rondo, Ariza, and Millsap. When you look at it like that, you see that basically every player in the NBA is "overpaid." The real killer in most of the these deals is the length.

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JohnEMagee reply to Marty on Jul 2 at 18:42
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I'm not sure about Ariza on your list, and Milsaps 'value' will be proven next year (in my opinion) when Boozer isn't there. Milsap was a bench player this year, if he puts consistent quality numbers when he becomes a starter (probably?) next year...then I'll call him a good bargain :)

I definitely agree about Rondo - but without knowing how much other folks make _ i couldn't really say

(One year 82games did a little 'value' analysis - contribution to team success based on salary - it was during Iguodalas rookie contract so he scored real high - i don't think they've done it since)

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Marty reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 18:59
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Ariza gives you 15/6/4, plays solid D and is paid half of what Igoudala makes - and I agree that Igoudala's contract isn't as bad as some make it out to be. So if that's the case, Ariza's is a steal. He makes a million less than Battier even, and IMO, is a better all-around player.

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JohnEMagee reply to Marty on Jul 2 at 19:05
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Click on this

While I'll agree ARiza is better in certain aspects of the game than Battier...I'm curios as to why you think he's better overall?

Battier is one of the more underappreciated players in the league - and check out how his overall game was better than Arizas last year.

Hey Magee, what is it with you and "stringing someone up" Not cool.

Iguodala has now become a bargain, amazing. My vote for biggest waste of money goes first to Darko.

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deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 19:02
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Does a platoon of Frye/Warrick put up similar numbers to Amare and do they resign Amundson now?

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johnrosz reply to deepsixersuede on Jul 2 at 19:04
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Speaking of platoons, are either of them right handed? I'm tired of watching zombie Raul Ibanez get trotted out there every day

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 19:07
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Don't get me started on Ibanez and the fact that he's paid for next season as well.

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Jason Mess reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 19:07
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Time for Brown to take over Raul spot.

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johnrosz reply to Jason Mess on Jul 2 at 19:09
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That can't happen because it would require Ruben to admit he overpaid for a 38 year old outfielder. He won't allow that fat contract to be a left handed bat off the bench for the next 2 years. Unfortunately, an unwillingness to own up to ones mistakes seems to be a common trait of GM's in this town....

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 19:11
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Won't get more into it cause brian is a yankees fan - and this is a sixers blog - but there's a very good article at the good phight as to why not to rush up brown yet

Magee are you a real Phillies fan or did you jump on the bandwagon for them as you did in 2000 for the sixers? Fans like you are a joke, wagon jumpers who act as if they are god.

I bet you were a Bulls fan in the 90's right?

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johnrosz reply to The Greek on Jul 2 at 19:57
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waaaait a minute aren't you a yankees fan not at all from new york?

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Rich reply to The Greek on Jul 2 at 20:33
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Comment makes zero sense. If he was a bandwagon fan, while the hell would he be here now? He has been here for a long time and a lot of those times were bad.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 20:39
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I'm a sixer bandwagon fan because in the 90's, before league pass and the growth of the internet I didn't live anywhere near Philadelphia as I was persuing a higher education. Sixers coverage in places like Madison Wisconsin and Santa Barbara, CA were pretty bad.

I didn't start paying attention to the sixers avidly (as a grown up) until the TNT game on Halloween on 2000 because it was the first game I had the time to watch (what with jobs and school and having balance in my life) in a long time. Thus I'm a 'bandwagon' fan...

He's responding to comments I made on another blog because if he said these things to me there, they'd ban him. Brians more forgiving.

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Rich reply to The Greek on Jul 2 at 20:48
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My point is that the Sixers 'bandwagon fans' were there in the spring/summer of 2001. Then they pretty much got off. They are like my friends who were so jacked up about getting A.I. back this year, watched the Denver game, and continued their ignorance. The Sixers are a terrible team to jump on the bandwagon.

The Sixers are a terrible team to jump on the bandwagon.

lol so true Rich. We deserve a badge or something for enduring this pain.

After reviewing the facts I agree Arenas contract is worse than Brands. So congrats...the Sixers have the SECOND worst contract in the league !
Again...so I would say Brand and arenas are two of the worst five contracts of all time. Are there any worse ?
Found this...they are both in the top 20
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/413636-the-20-worst-nba-free-agent-signings-of-all-time#page/7

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JohnEMagee reply to gdog on Jul 2 at 19:13
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I will tell you that I'm not going to read something that was linked to bleacher report - I consider it at the same level as philly.com discussion boards. It's horribly written and usually full of nonsense that ignore facts and history.

Didn't say Brand wasn't a bad deal, said it wasn't the worst deal in the league...that's all...said Arenas was worse. I didn't 'rank' them, I just said Arenas was a worse contract than Brand, for a variety of reasons.

The point has been conceded. Does Brand have a bad contract? Sure he does...are there lots of bad contracts in the NBA - yes there are (michael redd makes more money next year than Elton Brand for instance)...there are bad free agent signings in almost every sport every year...100 million to amare, 119 to joe johnson, 82 million to rudy gay

and that's just in the past 2 days :)

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 19:17
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you keep comparing brands contract to other players that actually produce. brand does nothing. couldnt even rebound by the end of the year. he is a 6mm player getting paid 3x that. yeah, amare is overpaid, but the guy plays at a high level. brand is a dog

You should go and read some of his fan articles from another site, just terrible.

But you know what's awesome, Monday night Jrue and Turner will be shaking and baking!! Can't wait for that, I'm even pumped to watch Meeks play.

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Jason Mess reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 23:31
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Brand's play does not live up to his contract very true. He is not a dog. he has had two major injuries the last couple of years and is not the player he once was. If the NBA was not so messed up the sixers could just walk away. But it is what it is, so we trot Brand out. would he be a bigger bust or a dog if he never played a game for the sixers because of a injury?

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JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 19:18
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The quotes from Derek Fisher and David West are trouble, they just don't get it. They need to sit down and examine how the NFL works...hardly ANYONE older player gets to the end of his contract Mr west - but he gets paid an awful lot of money.

SO the players are in their own bubble, and agents participate in the negotiations, and Stern wants to crush the union.

I feel the NFL will avoid a lock out - I don't think the NBA will...I think the NBA is going to lose an entire season (and man does the NHL need to figure out how to take advatage of that)

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 19:20
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thats because th enba guaranteed contracts are ridiculous. marbury should be in jail for the money he stole during his career

Aaron the nba system lags far behind mlb and the nfl. If these fools need to take a half season or even a full season off in order to fix this thing then so be it.

You shouldn't need to use a trade machine in order to make a trade.


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AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 19:27
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where are you Magee, no response? are out LARPing for the weekend already?

Please don't chase off one of the few intelligent contributors here.

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johnrosz reply to The Greek on Jul 2 at 20:00
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Come on dude if you don't like him that's fine but don't try to bate someone

Not baiting him John, just pointing out the fact that he is a bandwagon fan who didn't start rooting for the sixers until they started winning in the 2000. He never had to endure the pain of kenny payne, willie burton, or Sharone Wright.

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The Greek reply to The Greek on Jul 2 at 20:29
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More Teeccino please, someone needs to tell me where I could try that stuff.

Forget all this magee banter, were 71 hours away from The Jrue and Turner show. And their first game will be against Favors and the nets.

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JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 2 at 20:34
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John

I love that thread he posted...it makes me laugh every freaking time (if you've ever posted on philaphans or know it's history including current one, you'll understand why i find it hysterical and thegreek thinks it'll hurt my feelings - B_S would love him)

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AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 2 at 19:45
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Magee, im going to explain to you why Iguodala and Sammy dont get the respect and love YOU think they deserve.

joe johnson is no max player, but he has done some exciting things, and people appreciate that. in 08 he led a mediocre hawks team to 7 games against the champion Celts. this type of overachieving is something iguodala will never do. put a damn team on your back and beat expectations, make something happen, make your fukkin bones and stop complaining. this is why some perceive JJ to be as good or better than Iguodala.

there is always an excuse for iguodala. his coiach sucks, hes not a #1, hes asked to do too much. - JJ is not a number 1 option either but for some reason he has been able to be the centerpiece of constantly improving team.

I think some of the problem is perception that Johnson lead the Hawks to taking the series 7 games. He only averaged 20-4-4 on 41 percent shooting. Is that really great?

He's not great,he's not an elite player. Better then Iggy I would say yes, but compared to JJ Iguodala is now a bargain. At their price, I would take Iggy.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 20:52
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he was a pure winner throughout the entire series.

With every terrible signing that occurs Iggy's Value rises!

Why was Iguodala a loser against Orlando then? He was eaten alive by Prince in the Detroit series, but you said he'll never achieve like Johnson. 21-7-6 on 45 percent shooting is better than 20-4-4 on 41 percent. Add in a game winning shot to that mix. Why is he a not on Johnson's level?

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 22:16
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i said iguodala never does anything to exceed expectations. i nver said he was a loser. i was trying to explain why players like JJ and baron davis get a lot of fanfare. at one time or another they carry teams and make things happen

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JohnEMagee reply to Rich on Jul 2 at 21:03
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JOhnson is the one who called out the fans during the hawks playoff series right? Could you imagine what would happen if Andre Iguodala did that?

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jkay reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 3 at 2:33
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wow. good point.

Amare is nearing a deal with the knicks, and what a perfect knick he is all O no D.

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JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 20:52
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Lakers Sign Steve Blake

One year as a back up and then the starter under whomever the new coach is...could be a bargain?

There's some blurbs out there that Fisher is talking to other teams as well.

Farmar is bound to get paid by the Pacers or someone shortly. I don't think he's a bad gamble for a team like Indiana honestly.

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JohnEMagee reply to Rodney Buford on Jul 2 at 22:22
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As I understand it Indiana is scrounging for a point guard anywhere they can get one, wasn't that what all the rumored moves where on draft night, so they could get a point guard?

I don't believe Farmars a starting point guard in the NBA.

Lakers supposedly offered Fisher 2.5 million for one more year.

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deepsixersuede reply to JohnEMagee on Jul 2 at 23:55
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You would think they would go after Sessions and Minnesota would probably like to move him.

They should go after Lou. Lou and Granger would fit well together. I don't have the same level of hate for Lou as most. And since Indiana is going nowhere, adding a potent young scoring guard who can play PG for a few years would not be a bad choice.

That Indiana team as a whole really has a garbage roster. But they will be able to blow it up after the lock-out. Maybe they will get a new GM by then and rebuild smartly.

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JohnMagee reply to tk76 on Jul 3 at 12:14
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I don't hate Lou, he's just not a point guard, he's a short shooting guard - Iverson lite

I agree. But He's fine as a stopgap for a team like Indiana. then they can always move him to a 6th man role as their team adds better pieces.

They probably can get him for next to nothing.

Actually, they could probably get us to throw in a future second rounder and take back their worst contract, as long as their worst contract is in the form of a "tough" white guy.

Is there any way we can refrain from all the name calling and other nonsense w/out making this a registration only board w/ me banning people who step out of line?

Brian - yea man i totally agree with you. i'm here to get my daily fill of 76ers info. this blog is the best place to go for great 76ers content. All the petty arguments and ego BS are just ridiculous. i would post more, but i don't want to get attacked and i don't want to have to defend myself. i just want to talk Sixers.

maybe certain people will lighten up when we start WINNING GAMES.

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AaronMcKie4MVP reply to joeykey on Jul 3 at 8:24
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to be clear , there is only one person that has ever attacked other bloggers. ill give you a hint, this guy has been banned from 1/2 dozen blogs and makes 18000+ posts per year

Agreed there is only one person here who attacks everyone, and I'm sorry that I attack him in defense of others. He brings the same problems and issues to every board until he eventually gets banned.

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jkay reply to The Greek on Jul 3 at 13:53
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its impossible for one person to argue with himself.

try to refrain from having to defend people from the 'big bad bully' or do what most posters do; ignore and move on.

"Evan and Jrue have been very good together, so far," Collins said. "Jrue is really going to be a good player. This was the first time I've seen him play in person. I want to see a big jump in him this year. I've been talking to [assistant coach] Aaron McKie about Jrue's growth and confidence. I'm looking for him to be a leader this year.


It's awesome to hear things like this!

Also maybe this is the year that we defend the pick and roll! I love Doug Collins just for making things fun again and leading us in a positive direction. All that and we haven't even played a summer league game yet.

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Jason Mess on Jul 3 at 9:45
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Can't wait for Monday night got the DVR set, just in case.

I am so with you Jason. Make sure you set it for the whole week Monday through Friday. 5 games of Jrue, Turner and a touch of Meeks!

until then enjoy this Evan Turner remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd8AnnLU3Rk&feature=player_embedded#!

Is the game going to be televised?

The revolution will not be televised.

But the game will be on NBA.TV (I believe tape delayed to 7PM) or you can pay for summer league pass if you are a loser like me :)

I dont get all the J magee hate it seems to me hes just posting his opinions like everyone else. However I dont read every post of every blog so I could be out of line. Anyhow...this is the best sixers blog ever, I really enjoy it so keep up the good work Brian. To me theres just more substance here than anything you will read in even the local philly newspapers(for the most part, every now and then you get a good article out of smallwood or one of the others). I wish we had a Eagles blog as good as this one, when you did the split Brian the Eagles blog just died. BGN is good but I want MORE when august starts rolling around.

It takes two people to argue. There will always be people looking for a fight- and its not that hard to just ignore it.

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JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 12:35
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According to Yahoo Sports
“D-Wade and LeBron want to play together, but neither one wants to commit to each other,” a source with knowledge of the conversations told Yahoo! Sports on Friday. Sources say Wade is intrigued by the talent the Bulls have to surround him, especially in contrast to how gutted the Heat roster has become in the clearing of salary cap space

According to Sam Smith on nba.com
From everything I have heard, Wade does not want to play with James. He wants to beat James. He’s had enough of being the other guy despite the one with the championship. So you ask, what was Pat Riley doing almost all day Friday in Akron meeting with James?

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JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 12:52
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Yesterday someone was talking about 'bargains' in players.

Chris Paul 'only' makes about 16.3 million a year for the next 3 years, and is probably the best if not tied for the best point guard in the league.

I think he's a pretty good bargain when you remember that a guy like Marubry was making 20 mil per year for a while wasn't he?

Yeah, Paul is in that second contract, which has a lower cap as far as the max a guy can make. He didn't do that 3 year then a player option thing that LeBron and Wade did either. Rondo is probably the best deal in the league, I was surprised they got him for that low of a price, he'll probably get disgruntled over it. He should've waited, he'd be getting max offers this summer.

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JohnMagee reply to Brian on Jul 3 at 13:01
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It's funny, weren't the Celtics rumored to be trying to move him last off season because of his 'gruntledness' and now it's all about rondo (and I guess perkins if his knee ain't dead) as the future of the celtics?

I still believe as I have since that first rumor broke a couple weeks ago that Paul is gone from New Orleans this off season, but someone is going to have to take on Emeka Okafor to get it done.

Then of course, there's another PF in play this off season in David West.

The Hornets actually have two very nice trade pices that if they decided to blow the team up (and just sit on okafor, it'd be better) they could get nice a rebuilding haul.


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