DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan

All  

Sixers

, all the time

Happy 4th!

user-pic
JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 13:39
+/-

What do you think if the knicks end up with Amare and Tony Parker and other pieces around them?

I think Amare is less potent offensively w/ Parker as his PG instead of Nash, and still a sieve on the defensive end. Depending on the other pieces, I'd say they're a borderline playoff team in the East, at best. At worst, they're the same Knicks we've seen for the past decade. Foolishly spending the MLE every year to augment a flawed roster.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to Brian on Jul 3 at 13:49
+/-

Though I think you published this a day early - you meant it to be tomorrow at midnight?

Still think there's a lot to play out in free agency, but trying to just eye which teams are improving while the sixers aren't (i don't see adding turner and collins and losing dalembert an on the court improvement)


user-pic
Jason Mess reply to JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 20:09
+/-

I do not see losing Dalembert as making the team better in and of itself, but I do think the team will improve from last year. Just because you take a productive (acording to some stats) player off the team does not mean you can not improve.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to Jason Mess on Jul 3 at 20:17
+/-

I see nothing on this roster to indicate the interior defense and defensive rebounding won't be much worse than last year (and it wasn't that good last year)

user-pic
Jason Mess reply to JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 21:30
+/-

True, but that does not mean the team will not improve. It makes it harder but, I think overall they will improve.
HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY EVERYONE.

Yeah, meant for midnight on the fourth, but once there's one comment, I don't pull something back. Oh well.

Happy (official) 4th, everyone.

user-pic
Jason Mess reply to Brian on Jul 4 at 10:11
+/-

Thanks Brian, you too.

i'm real interested to see how good Evan Turner will be playing SG. i mean he was always that until that last year in OSU that he had such a good season playing the point. but how good he can be playing off the ball will be interesting. is Collins going to incorporate more screens into our offense and actually teach the team how to set and use them?
Turner, Jrue and Iguodala all need the ball; so them succeeding offensively as a unit will probably depend on how better each can play off the ball. Holiday seems to be able to do it well, I am not sure how well either ET or Iggy will be. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to jkay on Jul 3 at 14:13
+/-

Iguodala doesn't 'need' the ball to be a successful basketball player in my opinion. He was thrust into that position by the sixers when they extended his contract and the fans started clamoring for him to 'score more points'. I believe the lynchpin to this entire thing working is the sixers recognizing everything Iguodala can do with and without the ball and moving him back to the role where he can truly excel the best. Of course it also depends on Iguodala being comfortable with that adjustment as well. We'll see.

One thing that does concern me about next season is Evan Turner and the 'rookie wall' theory. Turner didn't even play a full season of college last year due to the back injury, I wonder how his endurance will compare to the typical rookie endurance (a rookie who made it through the entire season of his last year of college with out missing games). Not saying it will be a problem, but it's a concern for me.

user-pic
jkay reply to JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 14:27
+/-

from what I know both Iggy and ET are high usage players; or at least have been in their successful years. having two of those on the floor at the same time with a PG like Holiday who's gonna run the show is tricky.
Iguodala got triple doubles as Iverson's garbage mate so I am confident he can work well without the ball. but still he's been 3-4yrs as the Sixers go-to guy. smooth transition? maybe. does production stay the same?

Iguodala's usage rate has never been higher than 23.8%. I haven't looked this up, but I bet if you look around at every other team in the league, their leading scorer will have a usage rate higher than that. In most cases, much higher. Last year it was only 21.8%.

Turner's was high in college, so we're going to have to wait and see what it looks like when he makes the transition. Jrue's usage rate was actually really low last year, 18.4%.

If a team shared it's shots/possessions equally among all its players, everyone would have a 20% usage rate, just as a rule of thumb. Iverson's high was 37.8% (the year after his MVP season). Wade led the league at 34.9% last year.

Taking too many shots has never been Iguodala's problem. In fact, I'd be surprised if his usage rate dropped this season, it's never been an issue.

user-pic
paul reply to JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 14:32
+/-

The fact that Turner didn't play for awhile because of two broken bones in his back is hardly a reflection of his endurance. From what I understand, he returned to action about a month before expected. We often hear this question of "wonder if he will be able to handle the long, grueling NBA season?" but I honestly can't remember the last time some major rookie prospect crashed because of the "long, grueling NBA season."

I do agree with your point about Ig, though. I've often thought he would be a better player without handling the ball so much and that he has done so because of more or less falling into that role by default.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to paul on Jul 3 at 14:37
+/-

The fact that Turner didn't play for awhile because of two broken bones in his back is hardly a reflection of his endurance

My apologies if that's what you thought I meant. I wasn't commenting on my perceptions of his endurance, just that he didn't play a full college season in his final season and the NBA season is twice as long in general. What I meant to say is that I'm concerned that his rookie wall might come sooner because his body didn't go through a full slate of games last season.

I didn't mean to imply that I felt he had no endurance, just that by 'resting' (by choice or otherwise) for that long of a period during his last college season his body didn't have to withstand the rigors of a full season.

Never know, having to deal with the injury, and the rehab might bring him back with more endurance than a typical rookie.

It's not so much crash & burn, but rookies do slow down as the season progresses as their bodys just play more games in a condensed period then they're used to (except for a few guys who just come into the league cut and built like a 'brick outhouse' - guys like Lebron and Iguodala seem to suffer less of a 'wall' because of their physical conditioning)

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP reply to JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 14:46
+/-

correct me if im wrong, but i believe turner was supposed to be out 8 weeks or so and came back in 4. thats always a good sign for durability

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 3 at 14:49
+/-

He did come back early (and as a child of a doctor, doctors are like scotty on old star trek, most tend to be cautious on how long recovery will take), and like I said, that could be a good sign, but whether he missed 8 weeks or 4 weeks - his body was not playing basketball for that time. I'm not saying it's an expectation that he'll slow down earlier than most rookies, just a concern I have, not even a big one...there's tons more things that concern me about next season than the single season endurance level of evan turner...

user-pic
JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 14:32
+/-


Iguodala got triple doubles as Iverson's garbage mate so I am confident he can work well without the ball. but still he's been 3-4yrs as the Sixers go-to guy. smooth transition? maybe. does production stay the same?

That all depends on how you define production I guess. if you're just looking at points and assists and such, then maybe the production doesn't stay the same, but if the offense and defense are more efficient, the sixers as team perform better than they have in the past with him on the court - then yes the production is better...it's a team game...if the team performs better then the production is up in my opinion.

I believe that Iguodala can make that transition if he wants to and is willing to, and I've seen nothing in his career to indicate who won't do it, but it is one of the biggest things out there affecting the sixers future (in my opinion). And yes, because he's the veteran, he's the one who has to adjust because Turner is going to be busy just learning the league, and it's up to the new coach to get Iguodala to buy in. One of the most important things for Collins in my opinion.

Then again, I also think the best thing for the long term future of Iguodala and the sixers is to explore trading options for him this off season.

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 3 at 14:49
+/-

to continue the talk on good value, underpaid players, i can see Jru being on this list during the last year of his contract. i may be overzealous, but i think, he will be a star.

Rondo is great. but does anyone else think Jrue was better in his rookie year? i do. thats why i am optimistic for stardom. look at Rondo now... he has had the benefit of playing with 3 hall of famers.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 3 at 14:51
+/-

Rookies are usually excluded from the value discussion because of the rookie scale - they don't get to negotiate salaries - they are fixed.

I mentioned the 'value' thing that 82games did one season - iguodalas performance was that of a 10 million dollar player (approx) but he was only being paid 2 due to his rookie salary.

If Jrue is really such a value in the last year of his rookie deal, it will turn into a huge deal the season after :)

Very good sentiments, Brian. Perhaps the Sixers haven't made a lot of moves but the few they have made have been significant (Collins, Turner, the Sac trade). A seemingly very minor move last season to acquire Meeks may yet provide the team with a significant bench scorer. Instead of always complaining about what the team hasn't done, relaxing a bit and taking the time to enjoy what they might do next year, and what the current summer team can do next week is a better use of recreation time.

As I look around league rosters, my conclusion is that quite a few teams seem to be in a more precarious situation than the Sixers. At least the Sixers have a full team. Most of these teams with lots of cap space have it because they hardly have any players signed for next year. Miami only has about three players signed and about three or four second round draft picks. The Knicks only have about five players signed (with one being Eddy Curry) and two second round choices. Even if these teams land two max type players, they're still going to have some weak spots.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to paul on Jul 3 at 14:53
+/-

The sixers have a full compliment of contracts, that's very true. I wouldn't say they have a full team as they have numerous gaping holes.

And I wouldn't say that the sacramento trade was good or smart...but it did get them under the luxury tax.

user-pic
Marty reply to paul on Jul 3 at 21:10
+/-

Really like your thoughts here. While there are some obvious holes on the roster, we at least HAVE a roster. I think if guys know their roles and accept them, this team will be ok (.500 or slightly better), fun to watch, and moving in the right direction. Would love to see guys like Thad re-establish themselves and be used in a mid-season trade to improve the team long term. I have BIG hopes for Speights as a force on the offensive end at the 4. With expirings like Green and Kapono and decent contracts like Thad and Lou (considering some of the deals already agreed to in FA), I think we can finally make a shrewd move and add a rebounding/defensive-oriented big man.

user-pic
JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 14:52
+/-
user-pic
JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 17:56
+/-

Sam Amick: For what it's worth, a source close to John Salmons says he will not renege on Milwaukee even if Atlanta loses J. Johnson and offers more $.

Isn't that exactly what Salmons did last time in Free Agency (claiming God told him to)? Sold out one offer for a bigger offer even after agreeing?

Brian,
How much of "there's no reason to have any confidence that this group has the wherewithal to keep the team moving in the right direction as far as personnel decisions are concerned" is a reflection of your disgust with the Dalembert trade? The assumption appears to be that this was a harmful luxury tax avoidance move. And then Collins made some strange comments afterward. But I've been wondering if this deal may have been provoked by Collins' conversation with Iguadala in LA when Collins expressed concern about Igs moral and he promised to change the culture so that those who didn't want to work would feel left out? Was there friction between Ig and Sam? Perhaps Collins promised Iguadala the trade and because of that was willing to accept such lousy compensation? Wondered if anyone had any opinion on this admittedly wild speculation?

user-pic
jkay reply to Bob on Jul 3 at 23:23
+/-

you're giving way too much power to Iguodala.
besides it doesnt make any sense for a coach to dispose of a player whom he hasnt had the opportunity to evaluate yet, based upon the opinion of any teammate.

All Stefanski on this one right here.

Happy 4th - Spirit of '76. Recently finished watching John Adams, good thing to watch this time of year if you want a sense of what it must have really been like back then.

As for our '76ers- I'm expecting growing pains for J/I/T since they all will need to adapt their games over the next year. But I believe all three are true professionals, and think they will put in the work to make it work.

Same thing applies for Thad- although I'm not sure he'll ever has a position as a starter. But he could be a super sub (along with Lou) that really puts pressure on a defense. Unfortunately, as of now, Thad and Lou put a great deal of pressure on the rest of the Sixers defense :)

Recent interview of Thad:

http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/16478/1547831?cpt=8&title=google_local_broadcast&wpid=8790

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to tk76 on Jul 3 at 19:14
+/-

Happy 4th - Spirit of '76. Recently finished watching John Adams, good thing to watch this time of year if you want a sense of what it must have really been like back then.

From the gf o mine who knows more about adams than possibly David McCullough...she loved the book but found the HBO miniseries a festering pile of inaccurate claptrap.

If you want to watch something about Adams that is good and informative - find something called the adams chronicles.

Her July 4th tradition involves watching 1776, which as we all know is an accurate representation of all the singing and dancing our forefathers partook in while in the great city of Philadelphia.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to tk76 on Jul 3 at 19:16
+/-

Problem with Thad as supersub is restricted free agency next off season and the fact that a guy like rudy gay just got 82 million dollars...sure thad isn't on his level - but is gay worth 82 million?

user-pic
johnrosz reply to JohnMagee on Jul 3 at 21:06
+/-

Don't you think he'll end up with a similar deal to Lou Williams? I don't see him getting a crippling deal, but who knows...

user-pic
JohnEMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 3 at 22:54
+/-

Depends on how he performs next year...perception matters in the nba (sadly) and thad was a first round pick and lous wasn't.

user-pic
AaronMcKie4MVP on Jul 4 at 10:13
+/-

interesting article on the darko signing. i look at contracts in absolute terms, and i dont think any contract for $5mm is anywhere in the realm of $hit-on-a-stick contracts like amare, arenas, marbury, brand, etc. $5mm a year is not going to reak havoc on any franchise. big men always get overpaid.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/defending-the-timberwolves-david-kahn-for-darko-milicic-signing

"Did the Wolves overpay for Darko Milicic? Based on his entire body of work? Almost certainly they did. But I know that the people writing about this deal did not see Darko Milicic play for the Timberwolves; because for a good chunk of those 28 games or so, the Timberwolves were not on TV--not even locally.
But even if you only watched the Wolves once, and saw how much more dynamic they were with a big man who could pass (but never really found the confidence in his shot), you'd understand this deal a bit more--give Milicic 30 minutes a game in the Minnesota offense, and he's quite close, based on last year numbers, to being a double-double man. For a team whose Best Center in Team History is a three-way fight between Rasho Nesterovic, some Eastern European I don't remember the name of, and Dean Garrett, Darko is worth the risk."


I hope the Milicic signing sets the bar for Hawes a bit as part of a future 4/5 rotation. For Iggy/Jrue/Turner to have success a deep shooting 4 or 5 has to be in the mix. We have 2 now with he and Spieghts and hopefully a better version of Elton [Horford?] can be added in the future.

user-pic
Tom Moore on Jul 4 at 11:24
+/-

Tom, you mentioned in the article that Thad was still not playing full court because of his thumb. But there is a thread on the sixers.realgm.com site talking about him playing in Summer exhibition games in Memphis - http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1028070

Perhaps the discrepancy is a matter of the delay between when you interviewed him and the article was published?

" They brought in a new coach to hopefully right the ship, but to be blunt, there's no reason to have any confidence that this group has the wherewithal to keep the team moving in the right direction as far as personnel decisions are concerned.
"
Cmon Brian lets give a little credit where credit is due here.
They hired Doug Collins who was arguably the *best* coach available on the market.
They didnt get cute in the draft and selected Evan Turner.
The Dalembert trade will not ultimately shape this team one way or the other. Its obvious you dont like it but we knew Sam was a tease. He wasnt the answer at center---Hawes *MAY* be. If he isnt we get rid of him in Feb. And what if Nocioni turns out to be the player he was in Chicago ? Seems like a great deal for the sixers if thats the case. So what if the most likey scenario happens...they all play like they did for their prior teams ? Then we trade or just dont re-sign Hawes and try to move up in draft to get our center of the future. Nothing lost...unless you consider winning 35 games vs 42 games in a rebuildng season a terrible loss. But if this 22 year old can live up to his pre-nba potential(think Rik Smits) then I say the Sixers made out like Bandits. Hes 22 Brian....TWENTY TWO---his career isnt over at 22 and big men take longer to develop. We knew what we were getting with Sam...a dumb player with a lot of raw talent who was wildly inconsistent but was a very good rebounder(sometimes). After 8 years...thats all your getting. With Hawes you just dont know..yet.


user-pic
johnrosz reply to Gdog on Jul 4 at 14:38
+/-

Sam was always a good rebounder. He actually has quietly been the answer at center for a few years now. Just hard for people to deal with the frustrating nature of his game, and the fact that he had the bball iq of a 9 year old.

I think it was a bad trade, but it doesn't really bother me because Sam had no bearing on the future of this team anyway. 3 or 4 years down the road, when the team can hopefully compete, he wasn't going to be here.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 4 at 14:40
+/-

Sam was always a good rebounder
If good means 'only dwight howard was better the past two seasons' then yeah - Sam was a good rebounder

But hey - Spencer Hawes has shown a lot in 3 seasons, he's going to be awesome, why else would the kings happily give him away?

user-pic
johnrosz reply to JohnMagee on Jul 4 at 15:00
+/-

He can pass, and he can step out and shoot the 3. He's going to be a great fit in our Princeton offense. Wait, we're not running that anymore...? Oh...

I think it's very disappointing that Hawes isn't taking the opportunity to play in the summer league. For a guy coming into a new situation like this, playing summer league would've been a good way to show some commitment to getting better. Skipping it doesn't really do a lot to shed that lazy/lack of dedication label he's been given.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 4 at 15:04
+/-

Though no one has been able to find a direct link to the rules - it's possible that Hawes is not eligible to play in summer league because he's been in the league 3 years...

I like it more that Hawes is in Orlando than Young is nowhere to be seen.

user-pic
johnrosz reply to JohnMagee on Jul 4 at 15:09
+/-

Saw somewhere that Thad has been playing in some charity tournament in the Memphis area. I don't think he had been cleared to play until very recently because of the broken thumb. He claims he's put on 10-12 pounds though. I think Thad is infinitely more dedicated to the game than Hawes.

user-pic
JohnMagee reply to johnrosz on Jul 4 at 15:13
+/-

Not really worried about his weight - thad's game is more finesse and speed (at least the good parts of it)

If he can play in a charity game, he can come to orlando and start working with the team. Speights and Hawes are there, to me if Thad can play he should be in Florida.

if he isn't cleared to play (or practice) he shouldn't be in a charity game (and there are things you can accomplish even if you aren't 100% cleared to play)

user-pic
Court_visioN reply to JohnMagee on Jul 4 at 22:40
+/-

You're only allowed to have 3 players from your team (rookies not included) play on the team and for this squad that's Jrue, Speights, and Jodie Meeks. Coach Collins said that Hawes had asked if he could practice with the team, not sure if that's going on though.

user-pic
JohnMagee on Jul 4 at 15:10
+/-

More from Collins...not sure I like the Detroit example as I think it's the exception to the rule of winning an NBA title in the past 20 years or so

Collins Speaks

One guy I'm really fascinated with this off-season that I think could fit well on this team as currently constructed is Marcin Gortat. Based on the contracts that are being signed, especially by bigs, I don't think it's a stretch to say he could out-perform his contract over the next four years (about 6.5 mil per yr.)He's only 26 years old and any time he's been given extended minutes with Orlando - he's put up really good numbers. The Magic just drafted Daniel Orton and are currently paying 6.5 million to Gortat to play about 12 minutes a game. I guess he's a nice insurance policy in case anything happend to Howard, but I gotta think Orton can handle those minutes for about 1/6th of the cost.

user-pic
Jason reply to Marty on Jul 4 at 16:53
+/-

If they'd take Lou for Gorcat i'd be all for it.

user-pic
johnrosz reply to Jason on Jul 4 at 17:04
+/-

They already have a volume shooting, undersized combo guard playing the point in Jameer (a much better one). I would think they'd be more interested in having a more traditional pg come in to spell him. Although Lou is an upgrade over Jason Williams in that rotation... I like Gortat a lot and I would be interested to see what he could contribute in extended minutes.

user-pic
Marty reply to Jason on Jul 4 at 17:30
+/-

Say the Raptors lose Bosh w/ out doing a sign-and-trade. That would leave them about 8 million below the cap. Who says no in this deal?

PHL gets Gortat
ORL gets Turkoglu, Lou Williams
Toronto gets Pietrus

This deal is only possible if Toronto stays under the cap (sign-and-trade w/ Bosh could change this) since Toronto wouldn't have to take back as much in contract. The Sixers and Raptors would both be taking in close to what they'd be giving out (within the 125% + 100,000).

Orlando's starting five: Nelson, Carter, Turkoglu, Lewis, Howard

Bench: Lou Williams, Matt Barnes, Brandon Bass, Daniel Orton

Why would the Raptors want the Sixers involved in this? They'd probably want Gortat if possible and I don't think Lou is nearly valuable enough to get the Magic interested.

Valid argument - one man's trash is another's treasure though, so maybe the Raptors wouldn't want Gortat and his contract and would be happier replacing Hedo's production with Pietrus's for 1/2 the cost. I think Lou is a great fit for Orlando though, not sure they could do much better in FA after Blake's $4mil a yr deal and the fact they could (will) lose Redick makes me think a backup combo guard would have some appeal. As it stands now, I don't think they have one player who can take their man off the dribble (V. Carter?).

user-pic
bebopdeluxe reply to Jason on Jul 4 at 23:10
+/-

I am ALL OVER that trade.

I am always up for trade talk but can really see why no bigs are added this year; they have to make a final decision on Thad, Hawes and Jason and all should get one last audition.If these 3 can stretch the floor and Collins gets them to buy in defensively than maybe Elton brings enough physicalness to make it work. Smith, in his rookie year was a decent shotblocker and Hawes, Elton and Marreese should be able to get 3 between them so maybe our middle won!t be a sieve as some expect.

I don't disagree with that optimism either. I just look around the NBA and try to figure out how/where we can get better without COMPLETELY overpaying guys (Stoudamire) or giving up the farm in a trade. Gortat strikes me as a guy who can still improve his game, decent defensive/rebounding skills, and could possibly be had in a trade. Not sure where the additions come from in the future with little cap space, probably no more #2 draft picks, and no marquee guy (yet) to help "recruit" others.

PS - I think that's why the Raptors gambled on their contract with Amir Johnson. Probably believe he can still grow and be a potent defender and eventually/hopefully outplay that contract.

I like Amir but the price was steep. The landscape is about to change and all this overpaying will come back to bite some teams. Hopefully the new landscape will benefit our team somehow.

user-pic
bebopdeluxe reply to deepsixersuede on Jul 4 at 23:20
+/-

Are you kidding me? How can we POSSIBLY compete this year? We literally gave away Samuel "The Second Coming of Alonzo Mourning" Dalembert for a couple of ABSOLUTE STIFFS that our joke of a new head coach couldn't rehabilitate with the Marshall Plan. Same with Brand. Forget that he EVER was a decent post defender and shot-blocker...he is absolutely, definitively DONE - especially with the overhyped reject of a coach that the cheapskates at Comcast brought in. Forget EVERYTHING that you've seen or read in terms of his "history" of having his teams defend - everything that I've read from the knowledgable bloggers who follow the Sixers say that trading Sammy is the DEATHKNELL of defense on this team. Book it.

Get ready for new lows of defensive ineptitude (particularly in the post) and a 30-win season. Yay.


Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment


back-to-story.gif