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The Haywoode Workman Show!

johnrosz on Jul 7 at 2:22

Rick Kamla is the worst commentator of all time. His praise of Haywood Workman was like nothing I have ever seen. Brian, what did you think of Speights not being a black hole when he got the basketball

Forgot to comment on his passing, a couple really nice looks on the inside. Too bad he's going to be making them to Spencer Hawes and undersized 4's all year long :)

Jrue put on an absolute clinic at the defensive end on the floor. Oliver Lafayette had success against OKC who has a lot of good players there. Not today he didn't. It was a sloppy game as the Celtics tried to make it that way, but we have some of our actual players there, so we should win.

I'm very excited to watch the OKC game tomorrow. Harden, Maynor, Ibaka, DJ White, Kyle Weaver, and BJ Mullens. They have a lot of talent there as well.

Speights passed well today, but his jumper was off for the 2nd straight day. I'm a little worried that when he's just a jump shooter, he doesn't let his athleticism dominate on offense. I agree he's still hobbling too. He still threw down that dunk even on that gimpy leg, which says something.

Jason Mess on Jul 7 at 3:16

Thought Turner looked a little flustered about the calls going against him a couple of times.

David Kahn on Jul 7 at 8:01

Jrue to the Knicks for Eddy Curry

ESPN is reporting Bosh and Wade are going to Miami.

Does this help the Sixers (since the Knicks and Nets not getting the help they thought)?

ryano reply to Chris on Jul 7 at 9:32

I would think so. Although I think they probably will get Melo next year. Iguodala can play Melo, but who is guarding Amare? What's really nice is that no matter who they bring in at point we have it covered. Jrue's a beast!

bebopdeluxe on Jul 7 at 9:16

I love how - after you chide people to stop about the Dalembert trade at the end of your first Summer League game blog entry ("keep it clean, stop talking about the Dalembert trade...and try to focus on the stuff that's happening on the court.") - you throw that pithy little bon mot about how "totally tough" Simmons would be if he was Argentinian or had a mullet...

Nice to know that hypocracy lives on this forum.

I thought it was really funny. I'm sick of the Argentine-macho-man myth. The only tough guys from Argentina are Ginobili and Scola. Simmons looked good to me Monday night, very strong. He could be a good defender and maybe even make the team.

Mike reply to bebopdeluxe on Jul 7 at 10:06

You know, bebop, there are a variety of modern surgeries that can remove that stick from your ass without causing any lasting damage...

bebopdeluxe reply to Mike on Jul 7 at 10:38

Nice to know that there are no shortage of apologists on this forum as well.

If you REALLY want the Dalembert trade talk to stop and you want the forum to look FORWARD to the games and what is happening on the court, then lead by example and leave it alone. Is that too hard to understand?

ryano reply to bebopdeluxe on Jul 7 at 10:50

First of all- it's his blog so he can write whatever he likes.

Secondly- it wasn't a serious thread comment, probably just a joke he thought of as he was finishing up.

Third- These are exactly the arguments and discussions that no one cares about (and I've just been roped into contributing to so I understand the irony). If your only comment is to chide people for chiding other people about the tiniest of comments- why bother commenting?

Fourth- Now I'm just counting for counting's sake.

bebopdeluxe reply to ryano on Jul 7 at 13:16

I personally apologize to you for dragging this thread off-course. I hate when that happens, so I appreciate your viewpoint here.

As far as it being his blog - so what? He wants to mention or refer to (either directly or indirectly) how much he DETESTS the Dalembert trade ALL THE FREAKING TIME? Fine with me. Just spare me the "enough with the Dalembert trade - focus on what is happening on the court" lecture - OK?

I think that most of my posts om this forum are substantive...and I recognize that - as opposed to forums like RealGM (which should be an agnostic commmunity with no accepted central belief system) - this is Brian's blog - and he can have whatever the fuck opinion he wants. I just didn't appreciate him saying on the one hand we should move on from the Dalembert trade and focus on the games, but on the other hand continuing to editoralize (even in a subtle, throw-away way) about his hatred of the deal.

I am WAY done with this.

As far as it being his blog - so what?

His blog, he can talk about whatever he wants. As I understand it, that's the general rule of blogs. One is not forced to read and or comment here. If one doesn't like the tone of the blog, one can stop reading it. It seems you are getting very put out and upset over something trivial, and yes, it's his blog, so he can talk about whatever he wants, and you can say you don't like it, or you can just stop reading what he says.

Everyone seems to be getting very upset over something that wasn't even said.

I don't see how making fun of (a) Argentinians, (b) Mullets, (c) Argentinians with mullets or (d) the perception certain basketball decision makers/fans seem to have of Argentinians (with or without mullets) is rehashing the Dalembert trade. Nocioni is on the team, I'm going to talk about him. I didn't say, "We shouldn't have traded for that has been mullet," did I?

"These NBADL PGs don't have a prayer against Jrue, Turner, Meeks and the guys off the bench. Pressuring the ball has clearly been a point of emphasis in practice early on, and it's going to have to be the focal point of the defense when we get to the regular season."

Brian- do you think our boys will have the same success come the regular season? My only concern would be the lack of defense behind them in the front court. If you play as tight as our boys seem to want to (it's great!), they will get beat from time to time against top atheletes/players.

Terrence Williams was able to get past the first line of defense. And if you get past J/I/T then I doubt Speights/Brand/Hawes/Thad will put up more than token resistance in the lane.

Its still great that they will have a team that pressures the ball o the perimeter. That certainly will be disruptive, but can;'t be the sole baseis of an effective defense.

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 10:47

I certainly would expect that Brand's girth and length would be able to mount a defensive challenge in the lane...wouldn't you? To me, this is where playing Thad at the 4 for any meaningful stretches of time will be an issue - unless you can deny ALL entry passes, a good team will be able to enter the ball into the post and Thad will be ass-bumped all the way to the rim. Much harder to do that to Brand (assuming ANY level of reasonable health).

I hold no illusions that either Hawes or Speights will be able to replace Sammy's weak-side shot-blocking ability, but if the other 4 guys on the floor (Jrue, ET, Iggy and EB) can employ solid defensive principles and take their man straight-up, the number of pure 5's that will manhandle 1x1 situations with Hawes or Speights is pretty short (in the East there's Howard...Bogut...perhaps Amare...perhaps Lopez...anybody else?).

ryano reply to bebopdeluxe on Jul 7 at 10:53

I see it being a real problem in terms of rebounding and garbage points. Kendrick Perkins will manhandle them, a guy like Haslem from Miami would take it to them playing the five. I don't think it's as much the one on one situations as the boxing out/rebounding/put backs that we'll get killed on.

bebopdeluxe reply to ryano on Jul 7 at 13:20

Don't you think that in situations where, for example, Haslem (or a similar non-traditional big playing the 5) is playing center, that Collins would just go with Brand at the 5?

I think that is the point. In the East, there are very few "traditional" bigs playing the 5...which is why they think they can play Brand at the 5 against the Haslems of the world. Right?

I've been impressed with Simmons, too, and I hope that the Sixers are considering signing him if they can do it for a reasonable amount. They have two spaces left, he would likely be an improvement over Jason Smith, and he may be good enough to stick with the team for more than one year.

Speights had a nice game yesterday. His jump shot not falling may actually be a blessing as he seemed more oriented in game #2 to concentrate on other things beside shooting.

I wish you would try to keep an open mind about the Sacramento acquisitions, at least for now. They haven't done anything yet to deserve the continued animosity. Try to at least imagine that they might surprise you in a good way. One of them is young, has potential, and has already shown by the age of 22 that he isn't going to be a complete bust. The other is aging but was a productive and well regarded player until last year.

Who was Nocioni well regarded by last year? I"M pretty sure it wasn't the Kings.

Hawes has shown very little in his first three years in the league that illustrate he has even half a game (offensive). Defensively he's not good at all and wasn't in college either. The belief that Hawes will suddenly learn how to play defense is hope, is faith.

I still can't believe that people are pining for Sammy D! Hawes and Noncioni for him was a steal. Sammy is probably sitting in a sandbox right now playing with muppets.

ryano reply to The Greek on Jul 7 at 11:03

Hahaha...that's a pretty funny picture. I really hope he is.

paul reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 12:01

I said well regarded "until last year." Try reading more carefully before commenting.

My bad, though I'm still wondering what makes you think Spencer Hawes has shown anything that makes him not a complete bust, as the sixers will have to give him a long term deal at the end of next season.

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 13:29

Why will they have to give him a long-term deal?

While I don't trust Stefanski as far as I can throw this desk in front of me, if we re-sign Hawes after this season, it will hopefully be because the deal we made for Sammy was a good one - i.e. we traded a center with no future on this team (and a guy who Collins probably wanted as far away from this group of young players as humanely possible) for a center that HAS a future on this team.


My apologies, what I meant to say is that they'll only have one season to decide if he's worth keeping long term. (Though his previous 3 seasons already provide a whole lot of evidence)

I have no qualms taking a flyer on Hawes. But Nocioni has not been effective (aside from 3 pt shooting) since 2007/8. I don't have illusions that at 31 he will suddenly recapture what he was at 27. He has lost a step to where he is a hacker who can't defend. He complains about minutes and gets arrested for drunk driving. Don't see how his addition in any way helps the future of this team. He can shoot and act tough. Sort of like how Reggie Evans could rebound and act tough.

The team had some cap flexibility next summer. But now despite a bunch of salaries coming off the cap, they are against the cap because of Nocioni's 7M. Even if they cut Hawes, Smith and Thad (meaning they could not re-sign any of them) they still be only a few million under the cap. And I presume you would not want to let all of those players walk.

So instead of the team having some financial flexibility to make signings/trades next summer- they are locked at the cap for 3 more years. Just like Stefanski (judging by his actions since taking over) like it.

ryano reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 10:18

I'm not sure there is anyone else I'd want the team to sign anyway. Handcuffing our front office while still being under the luxury tax is a good thing in my opinion. It forces the ownership to allow Collins to coach this team without making any dumb, quick fixes and signing another over the hill veteran. As long as Nocioni isn't used as a win-now player- I like staying put and only adding young, cheap contracts until Brand is ready to come off the books.

Yeah, I guess that is the silver lining :)

paul reply to ryano on Jul 7 at 12:07

Agreed. Despite all the grumbling, this roster does give Collins a fair number of pieces and flexibility.

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 10:57

I agree with ryano...it forces Collins to focus on the young assets that are currently on the team - and that should keep him plenty busy for the next two seasons.

Until proven otherwise, I believe that Collins really thinks that Hawes can become a legit 30 mpg 5 - especially on the offensive end. And unlike EFJ, I am not worried that Collins is going to completely abandon defense to get as much offense on the court as possible. Between Hawes and Speights, he must believe that he can get enough defense out of one of them that they will not be a plus/minus nightmare - especially when the other 4 guys on the court (Jrue, ET, Iggy and EB) have the potential to be average-to-plus defenders.

I am looking forward to the other team!s 5 having to step out and guard once in a while and having a center with offensive skills other than weakside allyoops. We should be a bigtime passing team this year, similar to the Divac Sacramento teams, with Elton being the exception.If they make the extra pass than we are gonna be tough to guard.

paul reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 12:17

The team has almost 13 million coming off the books next summer as a result of the expiring Green, Kapono, and Smith contracts. That might be enough to resign Thad and Hawes if the team wishes to do so and have enough left over for a draft pick and some minimum contracts. In any given year, the majority of teams seem to be over the salary cap anyway given all the exceptions to it.

The sixers will have no cap room this next off season (they would have if they hadn't traded Sam).

The moves you suggest are all moves they could have made regardeless of what they did before. Those are all moves where the salary cap does not get in the way.

However the sixers are closer (by nocioni 2011/12) salary to the luxury tax than (then?) they would have been if they hadn't traded Dalembert.

So, in regards to the comment that the sixers have no cap flexibility next off season, they don't. However, Comcast does seem wary of approaching the luxury tax, and thus being closer to the luxury tax than (again?) they would have been makes next season more precarious in terms of making smart decisions on their restricted free agents.

Of course, this is probably all moot, as the CBA will expire, and there will be a season long lock out.

I agree with Rich that Lafayette looked real good against Maynor the other day and Jrue locked him up. Bebopdeluxe, I won!t defend the trade any more and will just let the players do it for me with their play this year.

Guys, if by the end of this week we don!t see one dominant game by Turner, should there be any concern? Not that he isn!t a good player but how good is he gonna be? He seems to adjust well and the "Andre Miller" comparison Rich made the other day is a good one but he was also farther along than most guys coming into this.

No need to panic if Turner doesn't give us a wow performance. I love that he's playing under control- I think that shows a high level of coachability. Also, there are a number of great players who started out slowly in the NBA and turned it on after a few years- Chauncy Billups, Steve Nash, Nowitzki had a learning curve. Paul Pierce (who I think is a good comparison to Turner) averaged 16.5, 6.4 reb, and 2 ast on 43% shooting his rookie year. I think Turner can do that. I have no problem with a slower start from Evan. He'll find a niche and as he and Jrue grow together, they will become the vocal leaders on the team as well as the go to guys.

Shawn reply to ryano on Jul 7 at 11:49

excellent post.

We shouldn't be concerned at all... The expectations for Turner are so high that i think the pressure is getting to him. Especially the high standard Turner has put ahead of him as a goal himself. And on top of that he wasn't that bad. He was just average which i think was somewhat expectable. Does some of you remember Jrue last year? He looked clueless at times, which is completely opposite to the tremendously calm and steady game he has presented this year.

I wouldn't be too concerned about whatever performance Turner gives as long as he stays healthy. It's summer league, where John Salmons can wow a Larry Bird, where people can think the Warriors have up and coming talent.

A little bit of Twitter insight:

Durant and Evan Turner tweeting:

KD: @thekidet how u hoop today?

ET: @KDthunderup I did alright. I attacked the hole more. I got two fouls for pushing off lol. Its all good tho. We won.

ET: @KDthunderup and I feel more confident in the paint

KD: @thekidet haaa jus keep being aggressive the game will start to slow down a lil more each time out

ET: @KDthunderup yea no doubt. Summer league is a good warm up. I know what I need to work on..you got bbm?

1. Not sure what bbm is.
2. Like every fan, wish Durant was on our team.

ryano reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 10:35

For real- love that guy.

How many players would you rather start a team with over Kevin Durant right now?

LeBron...anyone else?

Marty reply to ryano on Jul 7 at 12:01

If I was starting a team right now, Kevin Durant would be my #1 pick. Absolutely love that guy. OKC has a great thing going and a GM who (seems) to know what he's doing.

I think Turner has that same commitment and he's going to look real good when he's going against NBA "2's" and not NBA "3's". I really think teams are going to have to pick their poison with Igoudala and Turner (in terms of who to put their best perimeter defender on) and whoever gets the worst defender is going to exploit them. I really see Iggy and Turner complimenting each others games.

If I was starting a team right now, Kevin Durant would be my #1 pick. Absolutely love that guy. OKC has a great thing going and a GM who (seems) to know what he's doing.

So you'd choose Kevin Durant over Lebron James (on the court only?)

Good stuff, Portland could of been something!!!

I'm sure they 'could have' - but they are something now as well...it's not like they are the sixers

scott reply to tk76 on Jul 7 at 10:37

BBM is blackberry messenger. Like texting just for blackberries I think.

I think BBM refers to blackberry messenger

If LeBron joins Wade and Bosh in Miami, the Heat officially become my most hated team not based in Boston.

I don't believe he will (nor is it really possible for all 3 to have max deals on the same team is it?)

However, it seems Bosh had a chance to go to Cleveland with Lebron and get his max money (a deal is in place in principle, Miami and Toronto are supposedly still negotiating) and instead chose to play with the lesser of the two (in my opinion of course) players in Wade (who also has the more questionable injury history).

Chris Bosh must really hate Cleveland

Chris reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 13:36

Yeah, supposedly LeBron was trying really hard to get Bosh to go to Cleveland. Bosh wanted to be on his team but only if it was Miami, Chicago or one of the NY teams. Plus, Bosh has the same agent as Wade and Wade was putting a full court press for him to go to Miami.

Since Cleveland could pull Bosh, I'm wondering if now LeBron is going to Chicago since they don't have another star for him to pair with.

If you aren't seen as a destination city, free agency isn't a whole lot of use. You'd only lose your FAs and not gain any other first tier guys (people who have a choice) unless you vastly overpay someone. Any guy who can get the max is probably going to have a lot of suitors.

At one time the Sixers were a destination city (back in the Dr. J era) but lately it hasn't (the competition for Brand was only GSW). If they can start winning more, it would be a lot easier to recruit talent again (assuming we get some cap space).

If being a destination city is dependent on the players you have - wouldn't playing with Lebron James make Cleveland more inviting than Miami and Dwyane Wade.

Are there players who think Wade is better than James I wonder?

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. If James stays in Cleveland or not, they still need an upgrade at center regardless as both Shaquille and Ilgauskis are done, right?

Do you guys think our new coach ,by the end of this week, will change his mind on Spieghts and Thad ever being on the floor together? Simmons and Spieghts seems to give teams trouble on the boards and even J.Smith and Spieghts may not match that.

That wouldn't make any sense, as Mareese and Thaddeus will have played zero minutes and zero seconds on the court together by the end of this week. Until one sees them play together, one should make no conclusions, much like the Turner/Iguodala Paradox

Collins is a defensive coach first and unless Spieghts is a beast on the boards than playing him at the5 and Thad at the 4 has to concern Collins. But watching how the perimeter guys are jumping out to deny maybe our 2nd unit is gonna pressure the ball and run, something I have wanted to see for years, using our quickness for 5 to 8 minutes to change the game.

If Collins is a defensive coach first, why would he be ok trading one of the best defensive rebounders in the game for 'not good' defensive rebounders?

Jason Mess reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 12:20

because the player that we traded was not a part of the future. Simple as that (not saying I think we got the best deal for him). He was not part of the rebuilding, did not want to be here, ect..... There was just no reason if you are rebuilding to keep him around.

What is the reason (if you are rebuilding) to trade an expiring contract of a talented player for an older less talented player with a longer contract?

That makes no rebuilding sense to me either.

Part of it makes sense...

They needed to get under the tax. This deal got them under the tax in exchange for any cap space they would have had the following year. And they got Hawes thrown in as a sweetener.

Not a great deal, but made sense for a team that needed to get under the tax, and did not want to give away any of their younger players (like Lou or Speights.) But with all of the teams with mega cap space, you'd think waiting another couple of weeks could have gotten a taker for Sam without having to get a bad contract like Nocioni in return.

But in the grand scheme, no a "big deal" either way.

But, my understanding is that they are now 'over' the tax for the 2011/12 season or close enough that a high draft pick and re-signing both hawes and young would put them over.

Have I been misinformed?

Joe reply to GoSixers on Jul 7 at 13:30

There isn't a CBA in place right now right?

So that offseason is pretty up in the air.

Green and Kapono will be expiring which is 10 million that won't be on the books for that season.

Yes, there's no CBA for 2011/12, presuming that it will work out to the sixers favor seems unlikely due to the noises from both camps. I believe the entire 2011/12 season will be lost to a lock out and that the Union will give away more than it has before because it's quite a weak union. The players seem to live in a dream world and misunderstand the realities and resolve of ownership.

The thing about FA that I don't like is the fact that Chris Bosh was the guy holding LeBron hostage. I understand he didn't want to play in Cleveland, but LeBrown shouldn't have wasted his time on Bosh then. He should have tried to lure Dirk, Amare, or even Boozer (Now that would be an interesting return) to help him. Chris Bosh is not close to the caliber of LBJ and Wade. Dirk for one is a better player.

Lebron is only held hostage if he allows him self to be.

Dirk was never leaving Dallas, he opted out to give them a more favorable negotiating position. If anyone was joining anyone, Lebron would have had to make a sign & trade work going to Dallas and I doubt Dallas would have facilitated a sign & trade for Dirk to Cleveland.

To sign Hakim Warrick, the Suns have to renounce Amare Stoudemie. That leaves no sign & trade possibilities there either.

If the Jazz let Boozer go, it's going to be for salary cap reasons, (luxury tax avoidance), so it's doubtful they'd want to do a sign & trade with Boozer either. Plus, with Boozer, you have to factor in the fact of Boozers history in Cleveland the last time here was there.

I don't think any of those 3 were possiblities to end up in Cleveland anyway. If Lebron James 'really' wanted to play with Chris Bosh, or vice versa, one would have taken less money to make it so they both could go to Chicago (which has the better future pieces than Miami or Cleveland right now)

Is the fact that I saw Workman play here in Italy and remember him as a good player a sign that:
1) I am old
2) I have extremely low standards
3) all of the above

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