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Yea, I don't understand why they would sign Battie. I understand you need a body to fill a spot on the bench and MAYBE play if like 5 people get the flu, but seriously I would have rather signed a ham sandwich. I remember when we originally "pulled off" the Brand signing and everyone was all "in stefanski we trust" but everything since that moment has been complete dog shit. I'm willing to come out and say it...I'd rather have stuck with Billy King...at least his name reminds me of Burger King.

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johnrosz on Jul 22 at 0:59
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When you say Elton Brand has been an above average player, you meant before he signed here right? Not last year

Nah, he was above average last year. Not by much. Before he got here he was actually a stud.

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paul reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 10:40
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He was without a doubt an above average sixth man during the stretch where he was coming off the bench last year. That was one of the few decisions EJ made that worked well (at least until they had to abandon it).

Come to think of it, the last few years everyteam seems to have gotten better in some way (even in the slightest).. Trades... Free agent signings.. I don't think there is another roster that has been as "unchanged" as the sixers in terms of effectiveness.. I mean like the last few years teams had changed a bit like west players going to east and vicer versa... Like Brian said we're just collecting rubbish journey men and have been for the last few years... The only dramatic changes I can remember is getting c Webb and brand... I'm sorry if my post just seems like ranting but I'm just feeling really frustrated at this team.. Seems like we don't go anywhere.. Last few years same story, 1st round exit (if we made it to playoffs) and not shit enough to get a high draft pick (until efj) an not good enough to advance past 1st round.. What is a fan to do??

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Joe reply to Eric on Jul 22 at 8:11
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Eric,

The truth is that half the teams have gotten better and half have gotten worse.

Looking back to say 2007-08, a few years ago.

The Sixers have gotten worse. They won 40 games that year. This team won't win 40. In fact, they may have a better chance at not winning 20 than winning 40.

Some teams that are pretty unchanged in their effectiveness I would argue are the Pacers and the Clippers.

Looking around the league, I'd say the Clips have gotten better, or should if Griffin can stay healthy. The Pacers, Blazers and probably the Spurs have stayed about even.

Teams that have gotten worse: Sixers, Hornets, Cavs, Raptors, probably the Suns.

Well Chris Paul (unsurprisingly based on his earlier summer comments) looks like he's demanding a trade, but I don't know if it'll get done but that's not going to help the Hornets. I don't know for sure that the suns got worse, but I guess we'll see how important Amare is and how much is the system.

We all seem to be forgetting our new coaches role in this; every move since his hiring had to be approved by him, I presume. If Battie and Nucioni have limited roles and can get near what Ratliff and Marshall gave than fine, if not lets include Doug in these arguments.

Brian, you continue to treat Hawes like a piece of garbage , yet say Spieghts and Thad are players to look forward to watching; he ,to me, has as much chance or more of succeeding as those 2 and I am looking forward to seeing him and Elton play together as much as Turner.

We have added 2 starters since last year and a new coach yet it seems people want more changes; it is put up or shutup time for our young kids.

Thad and Speights have shown they are capable of contributing in a meaningful way on one end of the floor. Hawes has not.

I agree with your sentiments. I think it is ridiculous to keep ranting about a 22 year old center who is likely at least four years away from his topside and has yet to even play a game for the team. The kid has clearly improved from his first year and is probably not finished with his development. Give the kid a chance. What was the major part of the opportunity cost of acquiring him? Not having Dalembert for one more year? Oh yeah, the team also acquired Nocioni for two more years. And, of course, everyone is absolutely positive that he'll contribute nothing but a bad haircut.

I simply don't see the point of ceaselessly ranting about acquisitions at least until they prove they are guilty. But, that's the mind frame of some major figures on this page. Once a player or other team personnel gets assigned to the worthless list he never gets off. Perhaps the most lamentable discovery one makes while traveling Web pages is that regardless of the subject matter (sports, politics, music, etc.) the majority of individuals in our nation are absolutely hard wired in their thinking.

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Dutch reply to paul on Jul 22 at 11:56
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Well, yeah, I agree to some extent, but Brian makes a very good point about the trash Ed's bringing to our team. It's extremely clear to even the average fan what this team needs: A big brute down low and a suitable backup point. Instead the roster has one point guard, eight 2s and 3s of various skill levels, and a couple very soft 4s and 5s. It looks like a complete moron put it together.

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paul reply to Dutch on Jul 22 at 12:19
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"Instead the roster has one point guard, eight 2s and 3s of various skill levels, and a couple very soft 4s and 5s."

That is a reasonably accurate (and amusing) description of the team (although I still wouldn't categorize Brand as very soft). But the front office may still have another player trade or two in mind.

I'm not sure where I ranted about Hawes. What I said was that he hasn't shown anything in his first three seasons to indicate he's a legitimate rotational player.

I am curious about how you see improvement over his first three seasons, though. Looks to me like he's basically been flat, with some regression in key areas.

Not a fan of Fast Eddie's moves, aside from Turner, even though it was luck and I have a huge feeling I will be wrong about Favors. Management has been a huge disappointment, but I'm still optimistic about the coaching staff and the players enough to where I think we can make the playoffs, and possibly win a series.

Brian, I'll be in Brooklyn tomorrow night, any recommendations for food/drinks around Williamsburg or in the Soho/Village area?

Hmmn, don't spend much time in Williamsburg. I've eaten at Peter Luger's -- which I'd recommend if you're up for an expensive steak -- and the Beer Garden (or Biergarten if you tend toward douchery).

I can recommend a bunch of places in Park Slope, if you can escape Williamsburg.

If you really want a great meal that isn't too expensive, check out Lucali in Carroll Gardens. That's the place we take any visitors, just awesome food.

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Jul 23 at 8:53
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Appreciate it. Not committed to Williamsburg, just seeing a concert at ERSP. Staying downtown, and have the weekend, so I'll try and check that place out.

Is Williamsburg a no nonsense part of town, should I take a cab straight to the park, or can I feel free to use the sub system and gallivant around without worries?

It seems the league is desperate for headlines; has a player of M.Barnes level ever gotten this much ink?

What do you think of Collins role in these signings?

Teams going for a championship reach out and sign young players with upside [San Antonio-G.Neal] and [Chicago-S.Samuels] and we go old; doesn!t make sense.

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MylesKong reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 10:23
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What do you think it would take for a trade to happen?
I think Jordan, Gordon and an unprotected 2011 1st would do and be darn good for the Sixers.

I'm not sure they'd be willing to part w/ Gordon. Create a hole to fill a hole if that's the case.

I don't see a deal happening, and if one does happen, I guarantee we get completely screwed in the deal. I have zero confidence in Stefanski in any of these negotiations.

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MylesKong reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 10:45
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I'm not biggest Iggy supporter but I know he has to have a great deal of value because of his defense and ballhandling that should make him worth Eric Gordon in a trade. They have to give up something. And they just got Foye in the offseason, who is not as good as Gordon, but they do similar things. So, he'd have to fill that hole. That's not an unfair trade at all.

Plus, I put my faith in Collins. He seems to be calling the shots as far players go. That's just my hunch.

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KD Bang... reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 14:52
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Looks like the Clippers are not interested in Iggy according to Lisa Dillman who coves the team for the LA Times...

Before day gets away (again), hearing that the Clippers are not interested in Andre Iguodala. Goes beyond that massive contract too.
34 minutes ago via web


Here are some contract numbers to ponder before lunch. Iguodala: 2010 ($12.3 mil), 2011 ($13.5 m), 2012 ($14.7 m) and 2013 ($15.9 m).
32 minutes ago via web

http://twitter.com/reallisa

Thanks for the update.

The situation is the "perfect storm" in many respects. You have a GM that's clearly in over his head trying to please owners who are only interested in putting butts in the seats as cheaply as they can. Then when they make lame-ass moves like this, the weak-ass media in Philapelphia (Jasner & Cooney) run from asking the tough questions & worse...put out crap trying to put a happy face on the situation! It's messed up man...messed up!

I miss K.Fagen and if she lost her job for being honest and criticle of the team than that sucks. I can!t even read Cooney or Jasner anymore.

She posted an article today. It contains two errors.

"Battie said he chose the Sixers, who finished last season with a record of 30-52,"

"Hawes, recently acquired from the Sacramento Kings for center Samuel Dalembert, and 24-year-old Jason Smith."

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20100722_76ers_add_veteran_Battie_for_frontcourt_depth.html

that second one's not an error. She's listing players in the frontcourt, which Jason Smith is a part of, not that Jason Smith was part of the trade.

correct-a-mundo.

Wait, what?? Are you just speculating that Fagan got fired, or did it really happen? She was the only good basketball writer they had.

The sad part is that I just want the Sixers to just stop everything until we get an entirely new front office. If they would have signed Lebron for the MLE, I still wouldnt have trusted it somehow.

I don't have the time to write a full post, but Chris Paul apparently wants out of New Orleans in a big way, before the season starts. You'd have to expect NO is looking to save money and add young assets.

Dalembert's expiring contract would've been a big help if you were trying to put together a package, but whatever. Green + Kapono + Thad + Jrue + at least one future #1 pick for Paul? I don't think New Orleans goes for it, but that's an awful lot of cap relief.

Anyway, he reportedly wants to join a super team because he isn't good enough to elevate the talent around him. Good for him.

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Joe reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 11:11
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Tough one there.

He is playing in a dead city with a bunch of bums around him. I'd want to leave if I were him.

And going to a better team would be a positive thing I would think.

Go back and read it again, according to the reports, yes, Chris Paul wants out, but ONLY to the Lakers, Magic or Knicks, he wants to go form himself 2/3 of another 'super team' I guess. I doubt the Lakers would go it because, seriously, they don't need him. Magic and Knicks make sense for Paul but not sure either can get the deal done without help.

A package starting with Nelson, Gortat and picks could be a starting point for Orlando but the Knicks have hardly any picks left?

If he goes to Orlando I'd assume there would end up being a 3rd team involved for Jameer Nelson.


Don't know if Orlando can do it though, especially if NO wants them to take back Emeka Okafor. Would end up having 35 million a year being paid out to Emeka and Rashard Lewis.

I hope Orlando gets him. If they do, Miami might never make it out of the East, let alone win a championship.

Who would be a better core:

CP3/Melo/Amare

or Wade/Lebron/Bosh

The Lebron crew has more talent, but the CP3 group should have better chemistry.

Wade, LeBron, Bosh is better. Better defense too. CP3/Howard/Rashard (or VC) is better than all of those, though.

I agree about the the defense. But I think CP3 would be able to get Melo and Amare the right kinds of looks to maximize their talents and create easy scoring. While Wade and Lebron don't complement each other (but Bosh does.)

Howard + any prolific scorer is a great combination.

I think they could run into some personality problems as well in NYC.

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MylesKong reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 11:13
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He leaving because the young bol Collison make what he was doing look not so hard. Hetookisjooooob!

You're right, he's threatened by Collison. Being one of the best in the league at your position and playing for a cheap owner with a crappy roster and wasting the prime of your career while others seem to be making moves to make money and win titles has nothing to do with it.

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MylesKong reply to GoSixers on Jul 22 at 11:30
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Neither does the owner paying a guy 1/10th of your salary to guy to replicate your production.

How was my sarcasm, good?

I suppose it's ok, but if you think COllison gives you the same production as Chris Paul (you know, replicates), I think you need to take a closer look.

Collison is good, no doubt, but Chris Paul is in the top 3 of point guards currently playing in the league. Collison isn't even as good as Jrue Holiday

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Tray reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 11:29
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Even Kobe couldn't win without Pau; even Duncan couldn't win without Parker, Ginobili and the best or second best defense in the league. Even Garnett, at one time arguably the best player in the league, chose to bail and join a super team.

If I was in the NYC area I'd definitely check out a few Red Bull games with Thierry Henry, one of the all time great strikers of international soccer. He may have lost a step, but his ability to score from distance and his ball skills shouldn't be much affected by being 33.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfVWFn5ygpE&feature=related

"You have a GM that's clearly in over his head trying to please owners who are only interested in putting butts in the seats as cheaply as they can."

Stefanski may not be a star GM but I don't think he's over his head considering his level of experience. Now the last part of your statement makes a lot of sense as an underlying explanation for all of this.

Battie makes 14 players, last year they carried 13, do they move somebody for future considerations?

Supposedly, they are trying to unload Kapono- but I'm not sure if anyone wants him. he has an expiring contract but its over 6M. And I'm sure the Sixers are not willing to take anything back since they have already committed 7M to the Mullet.

In fact, the Sixers have 55M committed to 2011/12. Who knows what the new CBA will bring, but they may be hard pressed to re-sign Young and Hawes. Even a 5M starting salary for each pushes them to 65M.

I know your feelings on L.Will. but to balance the roster, and with Meeks here now, if moving Lou for D.West [releasing him] and a future #1 allows the possible resigning of Thad and Hawes, if they earn it, do you move him?

If you think the sixers could get such a package for Louis Williams I believe you're over valuing louis williams

The Miami #1 picks are probably 26 to 30 in the 1st round, picks that tend to be moved anyway.

I don't think anyone gives a #1 for Lou. And if they get one it will be so late in the 1st where it would make more sense just to buy it outright.

Lou is a decent roster piece. Losing him would not be a big loss- nor would it help the team. At best they pocket the savings to avoid future tax. No way it gets turned into a better asset.

Yes, but I thought that they may have carried 14 the year before. Future considerations is a thought. Who would you suggest? No one may be excited by Battie but I think the Sixers acquired him with the idea that they may have to use him at times. Smith appears to be a goner after this year but what could they get for him. Maybe they could get a decent second round pick for Green. I think they want to see a little more from Meeks before they would package him. Seems like Ig and Lou (and possibly Speights) are their most appealing trade pieces now but they would have to get something more valuable in return for them.

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khouse reply to paul on Jul 22 at 11:18
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I resectfully disagree. The moves (as Brian detailed) that Stefanski has/hasn't made clearly indicate just how clueless he is. Plus when you factor in how he handled the Andre Miller situation (not mentioned by Brian)& the Jordan/Iverson debacle & the indictment grows exponentially...he's in over his head & has got to go!

Paul said: "Stefanski may not be a star GM but I don't think he's over his head considering his level of experience."

IMO Thorn made all of the decisions in NJ. While Stephanski treats the Sixers like the Mortgage broker he is...

He gives away teasers (1st rounders, Korver, Carney etc) in order to acquire distressed properties (Brand.) He then assumes his current holdings will appreciate (the "young core") and that the market (cap) will always go up in order to accommodate his getting over his head by overpaying for assets. And the team ends up underwater.

The Sixers have become a distressed property that Stefanski has tried to flip- and hes stuck with the overpriced, structurally unsound house in a bad neighborhood that no one wants to buy. At least none of the local fans have bought in.

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khouse reply to tk76 on Jul 22 at 11:40
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Spot on tk76...a very astute comparision!

Half of those players were brought in as 11th or 12th men. 2 of them, Kapono & Marshall, were brought in as situational players and seemed like decent risks. Marshall, in fact, was a 12th man. Other teams are signing above-average rotation players when they already have 10 or 11 players under contract? Signings like this happen all the time. Last year's finalists had Shelden Williams, Tony Gaffney, Adam Morrison and DJ Mbenga, not to mention Michael Finley. Is that what you have in mind? Adonal Foyle, maybe? Jarred Jeffries? Look around, there are guys like this on every roster. This idea that we're the only team that makes dumb moves is biased, the negative kind of bias that Philly fans thrive on to the point of being proud of it. They seem to love wallowing in the depths of despair. I mean, these are the fans who think Donovan McNabb stinks.

How can you say Spencer Hawes and Jason Smith "don't belong in the league"? That's a little presumptuous, isn't it? Are you some kind of hoops savant? I don't think you'll find a single coach or scout who would say that about Hawes, except maybe Paul Westphal, who's a terrible coach. And Smith just finished a season coming off a wrecked knee playing in a chaotic "system" under a coach who is incapable of working with players. I'm not saying he's going to make it as a rotation player, but he's about where Bill Laimbeer & Ben Wallace were at similar points in their careers.

"Look around, there are guys like this on every roster. This idea that we're the only team that makes dumb moves is biased, the negative kind of bias that Philly fans thrive on to the point of being proud of it."

Well said. I'm not a big fan of Stefanski but this quibbling about the end of the bench seems silly when, as you say, the end of most benches don't look much different. We should also add that Jason Smith, from what I understand, is still here because he exercised HIS option for additional years on the contract and that contract was formulated before Stefanski's arrival.

I agree that the back of the bench is not a big deal. When you are seen as a good team you attract better reserves. The Sixers were able to get good minimum guys like Ratliff and Donyell right after the Brand signing- when people thought the Sixers were going to be a top team. While now they get the dregs, because the are a dregs team.

But I do think it is fair and appropriate to drag Stefanski over the coals for failing to build a winner in 3 years and for having no vision for how he expects this team to become a contender in the near or distant future. But that is criticism for the front half of the roster, and its lack of star power. While the back half is irrelevant and easily remedied if the team ever acquired the legit stars needed to compete.

I'd love to have a couple impactful moves Stefanski made to ponder, but I can only work with what he's done. 14 players added to the roster, one of them an impact player in any kind of meaningful way, every other move was either a bandaid, end-of-the-bench scrub, or over-the-hill scrub, or just a waste of oxygen.

If I'm only allowed to talk about guys in the 8-man rotation, then fine. Here's his history:

Traded Korver for cap space
Signed Brand
Let Miller walk for nothing
Traded Dalembert for garbage

Is that a more fair assessment of his time with the team?

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Dutch reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 15:09
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Well said, my friend.

The team picked up Smith's option. First round picks have team options for the third and fourth seasons.

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paul reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 19:00
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"The team picked up Smith's option. First round picks have team options for the third and fourth seasons."

Are you sure about that? Seems that I remember reading that Smith exercised a player option. I realize that contracts are usually structured the way you describe, but maybe this one differed.

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paul reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 19:03
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Yes, you are correct about Smith's option. Maybe the original article I read had it wrong. Well, that doesn't speak too well of Stepanski.

but he's about where Bill Laimbeer & Ben Wallace were at similar points in their careers.

Eventually, I'll get better at ignoring moronic statements like this. Step one is just pointing them out, I guess.

The best comp I can find for Hawes through three years in the league is Michael Olowakandi.

How can anyone compare Ben Wallace to Hawes? I can't think of two centers whose games are more different.

I agree that we don't yet know whether Hawes belongs in the league. He's a very young player. Granted, he was supposedly a very skilled player and those skills don't seem to have translated over. Those players rarely get good after a few years if they're not successful initially; the players who take some time are usually the raw athletic prospects. But there's still a chance.

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Jason Mess reply to Tray on Jul 22 at 15:50
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The raw athletic types are also the ones teams end up waisting years on to develop let them go and see them flourish for someone else. Trevor Ariza, Jermaine O'neil ect.

Ariza was plenty productive in his time in Orlando.

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Tray reply to Jason Mess on Jul 22 at 16:43
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O'Neal was buried in Portland; had they played him more things would probably have been different.

This is being discussed elsewhere, wanted peoples opinions. Clippers are inquiring about Iguodala. The Clippers have a #1 pick of the T-Wolves, top 10 protected 2011, unprotected 2012.

Given the T-Wolves are such a bad team, I'd think that that #1 pick + TPE is almost worth Iguodala all by itself. Throw in DeAndre Jordan and I think it is worth considering.

This was my original take:

I'm not saying Jordan is all that great, but Jordan, TPE, Minny 2011 #1 for Iguodala would be a good trade- and I'm not usually for trading away good players for nothing.

So for summer 2011 the Sixers would have:

Minny #1 (top 6 likely)
Sixers #1 (top 10 likely)
Tons of cap space (to rent out in exchange for more #1 picks Presti style)
Starters: Jrue/Turner/Thad/Brand/Hawes
Bench: Lou/Meeks/Nocioni(expiring)/Speights/Jordan
And they would have big expirings as wel in 2012(Nocioni) and 2012(Brand/Lou)

Sounds like a bad short term, but a much stronger long term situation to build a sustainable winner. Multiple young prospects at every position and lots of extrta picks and finatial flexibility to make advantageous moves.

And the best part... the losing this year would result in Stefanki being replaced , which is unfortunately why a move like this will never happen under Stefanski's watch. he prefers them to die slowly over several years...

First, I'd start Jordan over Hawes in a second. Second, they wouldn't have the Minny pick in 2011 if it was top 6, that would fall under the top ten protection.

Now, would I do it? If you promised me two things, I'd consider it. #1: Stefanski wouldn't be allowed to make any moves that took on contracts that extended beyond next seasson. #2: Stefanski would not be fired by the time any cap space materialized.

Yeah, I made my post before I knew the details of the protection.

And I guess the Clippers are not interested in Iguodala, so this is moot.

That should read "Stefanski would be fired by the time any cap space materialized."

As I've said before- I would consider Aminu/Jordan for Iguodala.

Not a great trade by any stretch- but IMO makes sense long term if you want a rebuild targeted for success in 2-3 years.

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Jason Mess reply to tk76 on Jul 22 at 15:54
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I like that trade too.

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Joe reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 16:14
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I don't see why you are about trading a good player, Iguodala for a bunch of maybes.

Call me crazy, but I'd like to keep the good players on the team and try to give to get other good ones... not swap a good one for a maybe good one and a maybe high pick.

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Joe reply to Joe on Jul 22 at 16:16
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Call me crazy, but I'd like to keep the good players on the team and try to get other good ones*****

Typo.

I'm of the same mind, for the most part. The logic behind moving Iguodala now is that you create cap space for when Jrue and Turner are nearing their prime, and Iguodala is possibly at the end of his. Personally, I don't agree with the logic, but whatever.

I don't trust that this FO can or will add enough good pieces to make the team a contender if they keep Iguodala, and I don't have any confidence they'll make smart moves with the maneuverability trading him would provide, so you're screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.

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Joe reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 16:57
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I realize you say you don't agree with the logic.

I just have some problems with people thinking Jrue/Turner are the players to be building around. They might be the players to build around, but the proof isn't there yet.

I like watching Jrue and I like the way he plays, but when I separate myself fromm what I see, the numbers tell a different story. His 2nd half numbers tell a great story, but plenty of guys have had good 2nd halfs. I definitely would love to see how Jrue develops over the next couple years as a Sixer(Turner, too) but Iguodala is what Jrue and Turner already is what Jrue and Turner could only hope to become.

Perhaps it is because I think Iguodala is a great player, eventhough he isn't a number one scorer.(which is a silly, completely stupid thing to hold against a player, since scoring is just one important part of great game in basketball)

In the end, I guess I am just frustrated because I can't even fool myself into thinking this team is going somewhere.

You're preaching to the choir. The odds of using the cap space to get a player equal to Iguodala are very, very low. The odds of Turner and/or Jrue reaching Iguodala's level are also very low.

I'm much more hopeful with Jrue, simply because he isn't missing anything. He's got the requisite size and athleticism to be an elite PG. He's got the instincts, contributes in all areas of the game. For a guy like him, I think it's about how much work he's willing to put in, and from everything I've seen/heard/read, he's a very hard worker.

Turner's a trickier case, because I don't believe he has the requisite athleticism to be a very good player in the league, and I don't believe he has enough size to overcome the lack of athleticism. If he's going to reach Iguodala's levels, it's going to have to be through the development of skills. It's going to be a tougher road for Turner, IMO.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 20:44
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Am I the only person that thinks Turner is going to have a really strong rookie campaign?

Hmmn, define really strong rookie campaign.

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Jeff reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 23:30
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contending for ROY?

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tk76 reply to Jeff on Jul 22 at 23:51
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I try not to let Summer League color my thinking that much... but prior to it I thought Turner would be about as good as Iguodala by 2 months into the season.

I was unsure about his ceiling, but assumed he was extremely NBA ready considering he is from the same HS class as Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo and Derrick Rose- all who are already very good pros. And I did not think staying in college and becoming dominant at a high level would retard his NBA learning curve other than a brief adjustment period of a couple of months.

But the Summer League makes me think he is less NBA ready than I first thought. I still hope is is making a big splash by March.

About as good all around as Iguodala that soon? That's crazy, imo. Maybe about as good as Iguodala as a scorer, but not overall, no way.

He could be in the conversation for ROY, though. There are two ways he could do it. (1) The team plays over its head and he puts up solid all around numbers, like 15 pts, 6 boards, 4 assists on decent shooting. (2) The team sucks and he winds up gunning for points. If his PPG winds up close to 20 he's in the conversation.

Obviously, I'd prefer the former. I'm not sure either is very likely.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Jul 23 at 0:42
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Here was my logic:

Players in the same HS class, same age and where picked:

Rose(1)
Turner(2)
OJ Mayo(3)
Kevin Love(5)
Eric Gordon(7)

IMO Rose>Iguodala>Mayo/Gordon

I don't think Turner should be any worse for having stayed in school and become dominant. So why should he not be able to perform somewher between Rose and Mayo next year at a level between Rose and Mayo?(after an initial adjustment.)

Other older high who were great in college picks have like Wade and Roy played at a high level after a few months into their rookie year. Why should I expect less out of Turner?

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Jul 23 at 0:50
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Sorry about the typos- getting late.

Since Turner is nearly 22, and players in his HS class are already impact players- I would say Turner better be extremely good by March, or it is unlikely he will ever be a star. He is not some raw 19 year old who we won't know for sure about for 2-3 years.

Well, the hole I see in this logic is that Turner wasn't really a stud coming out of high school who just decided to stick around college because he liked it. He was ranked 53rd in his high school class and probably wouldn't have even been a first round pick after his freshman year. He made a leap in his sophomore year, the same time Rose made a leap, only Rose made the leap against real competition. Turner improved again against college level competition in his junior year, while Rose put another season against real competition under his belt.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the strides Turner made, against the Big 10, to be equal to, or greater than, the strides his classmates made playing in the NBA.

I'm also not so sure Rose is clearly better than Iguodala. He's a defensive sieve, and I need to see at least one season where he produces more than Iguodala before I'll admit that, he hasn't done it yet. In fact, he hasn't matched Iguodala's rookie season yet.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Jul 23 at 0:59
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I don't think its unreasonable to think he can put up 15,6 and 4. Since everyone is using the Summer League as a legit measure of his ability...He showed us that he has a nose for the ball off the glass, he showed that he is a willing passer. He sees the court well, he looked good in the open floor. He probably won't be a defensive stopper, but he showed that he puts in effort on defense and should be above average in a legit defensive system...

I'm not saying he'll be better than Iguodala this year or anything. I just think he'll put everyone's concerns at ease very early on.

Sixers are going to be garbage until Stefanski gets fired and we have a new owner.

Just accept it and pick a real team to enjoy until that happens. For me, I have chosen the Thunders. Oh Kevin Durant, why are you so awesome?

They're going to have a tough decision on their hands next summer. I don't think Jeff Green is worth much money, but people consider him part of their core. If they give him a healthy extension, they're going to regret it.

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Mike P reply to Brian on Jul 22 at 16:39
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The important part was locking up Durant. Green is no superstar but he is important to the teams make up as a garbageman who likes being a garbageman.

But yeah, getting his contract right is very important. It needs to be somewhere in the 5 million dollar a year range. Then they just need to lock up Westbrook and they will be good for a long time.

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Jason reply to Jason on Jul 22 at 17:17
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erm, sorry for double posting instead of just posting in 1 lol..

Disagree with things he says about rebuilding and moving Iguodala, but I like where Stefanski is ranked.

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Joe reply to Jason on Jul 22 at 17:35
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The Spurs are so damn smart. If they get away with this Jefferson stuff, that will just add to their legend.

They are under the tax now. Someone correct me if I am wrong... That move is going to save them like 20 million in cash this year. lol.

What are the terms of the new deal he signed with them?

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Joe reply to Joe on Jul 22 at 17:43
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He was 15 million this year...

They got him for 4 years 38.8. So that probably starts around 7.5?

They are right against the tax... so they will save 7.5 x 2 and then get the redistribution money... which is going to be like 5 millionish?

I might be forgetting something, but that seems to be the case.

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Joe reply to Joe on Jul 22 at 17:46
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ahh, more like 8.3 for this year. So they are only going to save like 15-18 million this year.

The one move they blew was Scola, they said he wouldn!t except being a role player yet seems to be the ultimate play without the ball ,no ego, role player personality. He and Duncan couldv!e been an interesting combo.

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eddies' heady's on Jul 23 at 0:55
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what a difference a year makes.... funny how you were defending the crap out of Big Ed just last summer

The old saying says "Be careful what you wish for". Our fan base should have taken that to heart when Snider didn't let BK finish the post-AI rebuilding and brought in ES and the saying haunted most of the fan base again when ES short-sightedly got rid of Mo Cheeks and flipped that into Eddie Jordan. I thoroughly enjoy and relish seeing you blog and rip into his ass now as we are rarely on the same wavelength, because you spewed much venom and ridicule my way last summer when I was riding him hard for his obvious ineptitude.

BK had his faults (as you said) but I never wanted to see him leave b/c as you said also he was making attempts at making us better. I was furious when ES traded away Korver (one of the few reasonable contracts BK gave out). And I was past livid when he shafted Mo Cheeks like he did after those two extensions.

As bad as I pined for it here and wanted it to happen, I STILL can't believe he didn't get shown the door along with EJ. Ugh...

There was at least a logic to the Korver trade. An end game. The moves Stefanski made early on made some kind of sense at the time. Everything since hiring Eddie Jordan has just been an utter abortion, the guy is circling the drain and making the situation worse with every move he makes. I tend to give people a long rope, players, coaches and GMs. I guess I'm an optimist at heart.

I guess that is the heart of the argument. It made sense to see how Stefanski's initial moves played out. It was a bold win-now while building a core of young players for long term success. It was risky and ultimately failed.

This was not completely Stefanski's fault... but that is besides the point. Once this started collapsing, Stefanski was not the right guy to try and right the ship. He is too invested in the initial plan to be willing or able to take the bold steps to turn things around. So instead the team is rudderless and he is playing out the string as GM.

O.K, I'm out of trite catch phrases...


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