DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

Doug Collins Midsummer Confidence Meter

When he speaks during interviews he doesn't sound like EJ.
He has his asst. coaches checking up on the workouts/progress of players during the off-season.

I still don't really understand the Dalembert trade. I don't believe it made the team better in the short term or long term. I don't think anyone believes this. However, I do believe Collins had some say in this trade.
I don't like his idea of Brand playing center and Thad playing PF. These plans sound too offensive-minded to me. After EJ, I cringe at that thought.

As you said, the proof is in the pudding. What really counts is his offensive/defensive systems fitting the personnel and the personnel buying into his systems.

Joe reply to Jeff on Jul 27 at 7:27

Yeah. This is kind of how I am seeing things.

I'd add that how many minutes certain guys play is really what I care about, though.

Too much Kapono, Nocioni, Green, or Battie is going to kill me.

bebopdeluxe reply to Jeff on Jul 27 at 8:22

I believe that the Dalembert trade made the team better.

Classic addition by subtraction.

Addition by subtraction works when you have a replacement in the wings. We'll have to see how Hawes and Speights do. They will have their opportunity. If they fail the Sixers will be hard pressed to find a new center until Brand expires.

My biggest concern with Collins when he was hired wasn't with his coaching ability but with the FO moves that might follow i.e that we might go in a win now mode at all cost. Even though we saw a suspect at best trade of Dalambert, it's fairly safe to assume that we are not in a win now mode. That alone is enough to warrant a higher opinion on him right now than 2 months ago...

It's not that I don't have confidence in Collins, I don't have much confidence in the team itself.

Our coaches comments on the Dalembert trade explains his reasons for agreeing to it; he basically said he felt Sam and Elton couldn!t play together and that was why the thought of Elton at the 5 was put out there, if I recall correctly. But we will see if he was right by the end of this year.

Question in that regard; Since the sixers were rarely on T.N.T. did Collins view much tape of them to lead to that conclusion? Does he look equally at all the teams during the year in that regard? I gave him an 8 because even in the summer league the perimetrer defense showed some life but my reservations are how he gets this group to coexist offensively without taking the ball out of Jrue!s hands too much.

MylesKong on Jul 27 at 9:32

I gave him an 8. Think he'll have the entire team giving full effort on defense like we saw from the guards during the summer league. And when you are less talented you have to work harder. I also think he has the tools to be a very good defensive team even though there's no intimidator under the hoop. And I really thinks he gets the fanbase which is important. I also like that his assistant coaches are scatter around the country keeping an eye on our players work efforts. Reminds me of a movie when the have to assemble a team, like in Armageddon or Oceans's 11 or Blue Chips.lol

I only gave him a 7 based on the fact that he is guilty by association. Having DC on the bench is a HUGE upgrade over anyone we've had here since LB! However nothing changed in the front office. That has to worry Sixers fans. With that said, I am very excited about the upcoming season. This team will be fun to watch. As far as the Sammy trade, I'll wait to see how everything plays out before any judgments will be made.

I must say, EB42 is going to be comeback player of the year in 10-11, and either Jrue or Dre will be an All-Star Reserver this year.

A little optimism for you all. Lol.

I also voted 7. I'm enthused to see Collins take over. He is a good face for the organization, and hopefully is here a while and lends stability/credibility.

I don't know if he is a great coach, but worst case he is solid. I'm also heartened by Collins record of first year improvement with new teams- as opposed to EJ's 25 win average 1st year record (by trying to break down teams and then rebuild in his own image.)

In terms of moves, I put that largely on Stefanski. Eventually collins will exert his influence on this area, but for next year he is more starting with a clean slate.

I voted 7 as well. Really not sure how much of the Dalembert trade is on Collins and how much is on Stefanski, we'll probably never know.

Considering Sac was in serious discussions for Dalembert last year, it's probably very little to do with Collins.

I'm not sure I buy that logic. Something obviously changed since whenever these negotiations started, could be Collins pressed to get something done. Could be Sacto sweetened the pot (though I can't see how that's possible considering the return the Sixers got).

If I had to guess, I'd say he was involved in someway, maybe not with veto power, though.

I'd love to know exactly what the dynamic is among the decision makers right now.

Could be as simple as the value of the trade kicker decreasing as it is a percentage of SD's remaining contract (I believe). Maybe now it was palatable enough to handle.

The trade kicker is actually a little wrinkle in the timing of this deal. I think Sacto actually gained an advantage by making the deal prior to July 1st because they could split the kicker up over two seasons (last season and this season), but the value of Dalembert's contract was really only the final remaining year.

If they made the deal back in say February, it would've been based on the money remaining on his contract (so Feb, Mar, Apr, May, June of 2010 and all of the 2010-2011 season), split over two seasons. But since the season was over, and there wasn't much owed to Dalembert for the 09-10 season, they kind of get best of both worlds. Had they waited 'til after July 1st (or July 8th, not sure which), the value of the kicker would've been the same, but it would've all counted against the cap for this upcoming season.

They didn't save any money by doing the deal when they did, but they did preserve some cap space for 10-11. Smart move on their part, on pretty much every conceivable level. Meanwhile, our GM couldn't figure out that there was no way we'd have "max money" next summer.

I just meant between doing it now (with one season left on the deal) versus earlier, like at the trade deadline - where the value of the kicker would have been higher due to Dalembert just being owed more money between then (Feb 2010) and the end of his contract versus July 1 and end of contract.

I know it's not huge amounts, but one rumor that hovered constantly was that the trade kicker made Dalembert uninviting to many teams.

Joe reply to tk76 on Jul 27 at 12:22

2 of those 3 were Michael Jordan assisted. He was injured before Collins' first season in CHI(and CHI was about as good 2 years before Collins) and Jordan joined that Wizards team.

The other stint? I don't know a thing about it.

Court_visioN reply to tk76 on Jul 27 at 13:26

The Sixers would not have made the Dalembert deal without Collins. Stefanski wanted to deal Dalembert but was skeptical of Nocioni's contract, which the Kings wanted them to take back. So my best guess is if Collins didn't go to Stefanski and say hey Nocioni is a tough guy and I wouldn't mind him on the team, SammyD would still be on the Sixers right now.

khouse reply to tk76 on Jul 27 at 13:30

So by your measure...if Collin's doesn't win 40+ games this year does that make him a worse coach than DiLeo?

Court_visioN reply to khouse on Jul 27 at 16:58

tough call, I think. The East is tougher than it used to be.

No. More what I said above. Collins comes in and tries to get the most out of his talent. He is not a "system" coach like EJ, who would rather lose his way and force changes than adapt. Of course in EJ's case the only change he forced was his early retirement.

tru1776er reply to khouse on Aug 3 at 15:52

I like Collins for this team, brings alot of fire, soemthing that many of these players struggled with...I think he's in a tough position though b/c with Elton's contract he's unmovable, so in u really can't re-build unless you buy him out and w/ 50 mil left I don't see it happening..and it makes no sense to move Iggy if u can't move Brand as well...Elton's play hasn't matched his price tag, but the bigger problem is he just doesn;t fit...even if he was playing well(statistically) I don't know if that would make this team any better...DC definitely has his work cut out for him.

I think we should keep Doug for two years and cut him loose.

johnrosz on Jul 27 at 14:58

9. who gave him a 1?

I give him an 8. He was the best available coach on the market, and is a top 10 coach in this league. I cant give him a 10 because Phil Jackson couldnt bring this team to the finals.

I've got a really close friend who's a HUGE Bulls fan......he's always insisted the Nocioni is outstanding, can shoot the three, dribble,rebound and play D.....he absolutely insists that we throw out his numbers at Sacto, and remember theyve been trying to get minutes for Deng and Tyrus Thomas for years and Nocioni was the odd man out to a certain extent.....Dalembert is a serious black hole on offense, and for Brand to excel, he doesn't need to be at the elbow, but lower on the block, where Bert had to play since he couldn't even set a screen or pick and roll...Hawes will be OK, can shoot, and Speights will get the run he deserves.....don't worry so much guys......let it play out.....we've got superior perimeter D this year and that's where it starts.

He can insist all he wants, Nocioni wasn't very good in his last season-and-a-half in Chicago either.

There was a lot of optimism last year about Eddie Jordan. His Princeton Offense was supposed to cover up the fact that we didn't have a true point gaurd, improve Iguodala's game, and get Elton Brand into the offense. Anyway we don't have a center that can rebound, block shots, or defend. Our C is the size of a PF, our PF is the size of a SF and our SF is the size of a SG. Evan Turner is our SG and he probably won't play much until the middle of the season. So Doug Collins will put in Willie Green, yay! No one on our starting lineup is a good jumpshooter so not only are we going to see a lot of Willie Green we will also see a lot of Jason Kapono, yay!

Hawes is taller than Sammy, Elton has the wingspan of a 7 footer and Iggy will outrebound most small forwards; and if Turner isn!t getting 25 to 30 minutes a game at the start of the season I will be shocked.

Height isn't the problem. Both have 9-2 standing reaches, which is more than enough for PF or C. The problem is that neither have shown much of any ability to rebound in recent years.

As is consistently shown year in and year out... standing reach isn't everything, but it probably is the most important thing, besides past performance.

emtmess reply to Dan on Jul 27 at 17:54

come on man Jrue is not a good jump shooter, please. Second of all Andre is the size of a lot of SF and SG. So that point is out the window. He is also stronger than a lot of SF. Please if you want to post something back it up with something solid. who was optimistic about Eddie Jordan being hired? other than ES.

who was optimistic about Eddie Jordan being hired?

Probably Eddie Jordan too :)

"I have to say this research left me feeling better about Eddie Jordan coaching this team. Jordan has a history of utilizing the talent he has, and changing his approach to fit the talent level. If the team makes no moves whatsoever, I firmly believe he'll have them clicking on offense this season. The bulk of the shots will probably be taken by Brand, Iguodala and Thad, as they should be."

" * Richard Jefferson came out of Arizona with no jumper to speak of. In his first two seasons, he shot a paltry 23.8% from three and only attempted 80 threes combined. Jordan was lead assistant for the Nets throughout both of these seasons.
* In his third year, and the final year he'd work with Jordan, he dramatically improved his three-point shot. Hitting 48 of 132 attempts, for a league-average 36.4%. I suppose you could call this a success story."

" * Prior to hooking up with Jordan, Stevenson played in 385 NBA games over 6 seasons. In 8,368 minutes of game action, he attempted 202 threes, making 53 of them (26.2%). He averaged 0.23 made threes per 36 minutes of floor time.
* In 2006, he went to Washington. Over the next two seasons, in Jordan's offense, Stevenson hit 232 threes in 596 attempts (38.9%). He averaged a robust 1.67 made threes per 36 minutes.
* This past season, after Jordan was fired by Washington, Stevenson shot 19 for 73 from three (26%)."

"More than anything, however, I think these numbers illustrate the quantity of open looks the P.O. can produce. Jordan gives the green light to his shooters, and creates opportunities for them to hit shots."

If you're going to make fun of something I wrote, at least provide the link.

That post was about whether Jordan, or his system, could make the Sixers better shooters from three. The funny thing is that the team was much better at shooting the three last season than they've been for years. Didn't really mean much in terms of wins and losses, obviously, and I'm not sure how much Jordan had to do with it.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jul 27 at 19:40

When all of practice is dedicated to offense, and when you're regularly getting blown out, there's no incentive for teams to guard the perimeter of an Eddie Jordan coached roster

So for reference I'm going to say what I gave him.

I gave him a 3.

I think he is an extremely average coach. Everything about him seems to scream average. He was a 5 when he signed. Since he came here, though, he has hinted at Nocioni playing(if this is inaccurate, I'll say 4) and the team traded one of their 2 best players for nothing. I think he could easily be moved back to 5 after the first game of the season, though. Much higher? I don't know. 30 wins and he did a good job winning basketball games IMO.

I gave Collins an 8. The reason that I gave him a high number is because I think that this team with a defensive minded coach is capable of 45 wins. Anyone who said that 27 wins last year was their expectation before the season is not being honest.

We will be a fundamentaly sound team that plays unselfishly and "Play a Day Doug" will have these guys playing closer to their ceiling than their basement as we did last year.

I think Collins had something to do with the trade of Sammy but that was comming regardless of if he signed off on it or not. If anything I think that Collins had to ok the guys comming back more so than letting Sammy walk, IMO.

Collins will kill these guys everyday in practice and these young players will be better for it. His track record shows that he is a man of his word in regards to him only playing players commited on the defensive side of the ball in the last 8 minutes of the 4th quarter. If Speights, Hawes, Thad, Lou, Meeks, or Kapono want to get in late in the game then they better show it in practice and the first 40 minutes or guys like Battie (not saying he's a great defender) & Nocioni will be eating up those late minutes (I would have liked to see Carney on this team with Collins but I don't know if that is likely). Either way, we will have a team that Philadelphia can respect and get behind. That is why I gave Doug Collins an 8.

I gave him a 9. I am not sure what else we can ask for right now. He IS NOT in a win now mode, he wants defense and he talks up his guys in public. May I dare say a real coach?

I read online that Collins is a B coach, above average for all of NBA. I am extremely excited to be a season ticket holder this year and expect it to be a good year. I really would rather see another lottery year and the young guys play alot.

Not sure if ya'll saw Tom Moore's column about AI9:


another positive for the coming year!

Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment