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Reading A Box Score

On second though, Speights made up for the crappy defensive rebounding in this game. He was a plus. Brand, Lou and Jrue were the real problems on the floor. Sam not being able to stay out there was a huge issue.

Good post, all basic stuff, and you don't need to post on the ABPR board to understand it.

smh1980 on Jul 29 at 2:38

PHI vs NJN box score - The biggest thing that stood out to me was the 10 Blocks that philly had (0 for NJN), 5 by Sammy. Jrue/Iggy were impressive in this game. Team rebounding was good. Let's hope that this type of game will be against better competition than the Nets in 10 - 11'. I'd have to say that the most blocks that we have in 1 game next year will be 4 but with better perimeter defense and a focus on fundamentals by Collins I don't think that will be a big issue.

Collins biggest challenge will be getting our bigs to rebound. If nobody is good at rebounding then how will he pick who gets on the court? I assume Defense before Offense, unlike Eddie Jordan.

Brand did average 11.2 rebounds/ game in his last healthy year for LAC so maybe we can get 2 solid years out of him. My prediction for Brand next season is 16 PPG/9 RPG/1.3 BPG in 33 minutes for the sixers. Much improved from the last 2 years and I think Collins will get that much out of him.

Brand's rebounding dropoff is really, really hard for me to explain. I mean, he was never a great defensive rebounder (he was great on the offensive glass), but he was good. Even in his first year with the Sixers (prior to the injury) he was very good. Then it just fell off, overnight.

Worst-case, it's a result of the dip in athleticism, but he wasn't exactly the type of guy to outjump people. Strength, length and positioning were his advantages. Unfortunately, best-case is that he completed checked out last season because of EFJ and he'll bounce back this year, but I'm not really a big fan of guys who stop trying.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I don't know the game well enough to comment but is it possible that the system that Eddie Jordan ran, or tried to run, put Brand in worse rebounding position than he's used to. Did Jordan use Brand in a way that didn't play to his strengths, in other words, and do we believe Collins knows better?

Yeah, I'd say the defensive "system" didn't help things. Every time the ball was passed Jordan had everyone on the floor rotating men. Plus having Lou and Willie on the perimeter led to over helping, and Thad's over-reactions also led to over-rotating. All of those things factor in, and I assume Collins is actually going to have a legitimate defensive system in place with individual responsibilities that make some sense.

I'm hopeful about Brand, but guardedly so.

Not to go all geeky on you or all but if you look at both teams and can do some basic math in your head you can also get a little bit more from the box score. For instance, the glass battle to me isn't determined by a count but by the percentage, especially on the defensive glass, of available rebounds grabbed. It's pretty easy to estimate that in your head (I use 75% as a good 'baseline' number).

Yep, rebound rate is another one you can do pretty easily. Your team's defensive boards divided by your team's defensive boards + the opposing team's offensive boards.

Hmmn. Tickets are on sale for Team USA vs. France at the Garden in August. May go to that one.

Ryan F reply to Brian on Jul 29 at 13:25

I'm planning on trying to make it as well. What were the prices?

I just did one search, looks like you can get seats on the floor, baseline, for $75.

that could be fun. think im gonna get some cheap seats.

I should know for sure if I'm going over the weekend, hopefully we can meet up.

joeykey reply to Brian on Jul 29 at 19:05

alright cool lemme know

See, I told you Willie Green is worth more than what the box score indicates. I'm happy that you're starting to realize that right now, Brian.

Well see you make a statement like that and then you have to be directed towards this

Willie green is worth very little

Don reply to GoSixers on Jul 29 at 12:36

It doesn't account for his defense and leadership qualities. Also he is a good jump shooter which spaces out the floor and draws defenders which gives opportunities for players like Iguodala to score.

A. It does account for his defense, that's why it's called defensive win shares
B. Leadership qualities - that's one of those statements people say because they feel it's relevant, can't be proven or disproven but whatever, Willie Green is an 8th man, his leadership is irrelevant
C. As for spacing the floor I see nothing 'great' about what he does that can't be replaced by numerous year to year players Check it"

Willie Green is a scrub pure and simple who was given a gift long term deal and now his favorite gm is in the league again so maybe he can steal more money after next season

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

I always assumed you were a masochist

hey you guys. Take a look at the 05-06 season. Willie Green shot 55% from 3 according to that link, on 1.9 attempted 3s per game. that pretty outstanding! This past year. His 3 wasnt that bad. If he would stop taking ill-advised shots and play a little d, he actually wouldn't be a bad "off the bench guy".

Don reply to rchap13 on Jul 29 at 12:44

again, his % went down because he took a lot of desperation heaves with the shot clock winding down. He is the kind of guy that is willing to sacrifice his stats for the betterment of the team.

Court_visioN reply to Don on Jul 29 at 23:19

WOW. I could count the number of desperation heaves that Willie had last season on one hand.

i also wish willie would rebound and get more assists.

Don reply to rchap13 on Jul 29 at 12:57

He doesn't get enough minutes

He gets more minutes than he should for a guy who is an average basketball player.

But I get it, you think willie green is good, so you have unsupportable excuses for everything he does

Al Jefferson stats:

Points: 17.1
Rebounds: 9.3
Blocks: 1.3
FG%: .503
Assists: 1.8

Why do people dislike him?

Defensively soft? High turnover percentage? Under 5 FTA per game for his career?

Rodney Buford reply to Fred on Jul 29 at 14:27

And an affordable 3 years left on his deal.

A box score and stats in general give little information about defense. Sometimes its even hard to tell watching.

A lot a times little things like requiring extra help is not easily measurable.

For example, if Thad is covering Pierce instead of Iguodala then everyone else pays a little less attention to their own man and it pulls the whole defense down- even if he does nothing wrong. Sort of like how a center fielder can be more effective if he has good teammates in RF and LF, or a hitter is more effective if there is a big bat next in the line-up.

Things like on/off stats try to quantify this, but most players are in units and play more against eitehr starters or bench players- so it throws those measures way off mark.

FYI: Lou interview on FreeDarko


Shows how 18 year olds make important decisions.

When I went on this site it kept getting redirected to philadunk.com. Did anyone else have tbat problem?

I believe there's a very complex screening algorithm in place

Joe reply to Don on Jul 30 at 8:08


It is because you have been trolling.

OT: Brian, I'm starting to learn what it feels like to be a Yankee's fan.

Suddenly much of the rest of the league acts more like a feeder system for the Phillies. Like I wrote at reclinergm:

Phillies news:

In the last week the team called up Dom from AAA, and called up Oswalt from their other minor league affiliate. To make room on the roster, Happ had to be sent back down.

…I’m even starting to sound like a Yankee’s fan. The rest of the league is just our feeder clubs. we even place our former executives their to help oversee player development and facilitate “call-ups.”

You're almost there. The Yanks would've never given Cliff Lee away, though.

Yeah, what makes the Phillies GM impressive is that he gets around the teams self imposed salary cap by bringing in stars and extra millions in exchange for prospects.

The Phils got Oswalt + 11M. Halladay +6M.

The Yankees don't seem to have any limit to what they can spend.

Still can't figure out why Houston would pick up any of the tab on Oswalt. It's not like he has a toxic contract. Too bad Stefanski's never on the right end of a deal like this.

All I can think of is that:

1. They wanted to accommodate Oswalt after all his years there and they had already budgetted they money for this year's salary.

2. They will get a lot of cash savings through having control of Happ for several years before he is even arbitration eligible.

3. They really like the low level prospects they got in the deal.

4. Ed Wade still has a soft spot for the Phils, and figures when they win it reflects well on him as one of the early architects of their success.

The Stros quickly flipped Gose to the Jays for Brett Wallace - which on paper for Houston makes the Oswalt deal much better for them. Wallace is ready now.

Yanks would have signed him for 7 years 105 million or something. I like how the Phils refuse to lock up arms for that kind of lenght, preferring to pay slightly more without the commitment. The Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels deals are all great examples.

Ed Wade with the Kevin McHale-esque move in dealing Oswalt. Getting 11 million and not having to pick up his 2012 option is sweet.

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