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Doug Collins Film Study

I don't care what kind of offense they run but Collins has to figure out how to get Iguodala off that three point line and on the foul line. Iguodala did it all last year and now he's doing it with Team USA.
On defense the perimeter three should be better at protecting the three point line but Brand, Hawes and Speights have to do a better job at defensive rebounds.

97 Bulls - Jordan/Pippen/Rodman were killers

The current guys would be more focused on trying to hug it out before the game.

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deepsixersuede on Aug 26 at 7:48
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Brian, I am just as concerned with how teams play us. Don!t you,as an opposing coach, pack it in and for long periods of time zone it up. I wonder where Turner will be most effective with the 3 ball? Do you have stats on Jrue!s 3 pt. hot spots? It may decide alot on how Collins does things to take advantage of those two's strengths.

Defensively, accountability for your own man is what I am hoping for and a semblence of order and rules on the pick-n-roll. Our bigs better be given a solid plan and work on it every practice.

Could or would? They could, but likely wouldn't. That is my opinion right now.

Rodman would destroy Bosh. It would be kind of ridiculous to watch. It would show that Miami really is a big 2 and 2 other very good players.(Bosh and Miller)

Eh, I'd say Bosh is very good, Miller's just good. Miller needs to stay healthy too.

Fun to watch the vids- but didn't really give any Collins insight. Just a reminder that MJ was better than Bron :)

I hope Collins does design the offense for Turner, but not to let him dominate the ball. I'd like to see him mostly coming off screens for the catch, and making those quick moves to the basket. Even though he handled the ball more there, I love the way he played at OSU, taking it strong to the rim and finishing through contact. Hopefully Collins encourages Turner to bring that same confidence and aggressive style to the Sixers.

Dwyer has Dalembert at #23 among centers. I'm assuming Hawes didn't make the list.

23. Samuel Dalembert, Sacramento Kings (last year: unranked)

Sam has had his detractors, and he still makes enough poorly-conceived plays on either end of the floor to leave him off the court in clutch situations, and off of last year's list. But he can finish in the paint, nail that high-arcing jumper, and block shots with the best of them. On top of that, he's never hurt, a real oddity in a league that carts 7-footers to the hospital to regularity.

No mention of his rebounding ability, interesting Kelly

He also has Thad at #27 among PF.

27. Thaddeus Young(notes), Philadelphia 76ers (last year: unranked)

Thaddeus' production has declined in the two years since his impressive rookie campaign, and though he's just 22, it is time for him to get it together. With an ultra-focused coach in Doug Collins and a defined role on offense, perhaps 2010-11 is his season to bounce back. He's certainly got the all-around skills to make it happen.

And Brand at #25 (same link as above)

24. Elton Brand(notes), Philadelphia 76ers (last year: 17th)

The slide continues for the too-proud power forward. Elton hurts himself because he over-thinks just about every possession he's part of offensively, though his defensive skills came in handy when his relatively short height isn't a huge deal. Brand missed only six games last year, and he gave his team 13 and 6 in just 30 minutes (along with 2.2 combined steals/blocks), so this might be too low a ranking for him. Then again, he'll turn 32 before this season ends.

"Jordan could shut down Wade"

That's a tall order.

OK, put it another way then. Who wins the matchup between Jordan and Wade? I'd say Jordan wins it by 10pts, probably, maybe more. And I don't see Wade being very efficient with a guy like Jordan guarding him. MJ had great size and quickness. Wade doesn't see a combo like that very often.

Jordan was an under rated defender (career defensive rating of 103) and in a star driven league, Jordan would get every call over Wade.

Not that "under-rated" on defense given he was 1st team All Defense team 10X :)

Some defensive numbers:
All Defense 1st team: 10X
steals: Top 4 9X (Career #2 in NBA history, Per game #3))
steal% top 4: 6X (Career #10 NBA history)
Def reb: #54 NBA history
Def Rating: Top 10 4X
Def Wins shares: top 6 9X (Career #19 NBA history)

Ok, maybe I should have said tray was under rating jordans defense (and grossly over rating Wade in my opinion)

Its funny, it used to be MJ was over-rated (he was not clearly the best ever like people talked about when he was playing)- but now people tend to under-rate him by putting Lebron, Kobe and Wade in the same class. Sort or like how people forgot how transcendent Wilt was.

Wilt career:
30 pts, 23reb, 4.4 asst, 54%FG and nobody knows how many Blocks/game (4+?.)

Sure it was a different era- but no one in his era came close.

Have you read the bill russell / wilt debate in simmons book (I heard it mentioned on sports radio yesterday they were debating 'who do you take #2 if all basketball players of all time are 21 years old' - the presumption was that you take Jordan #1.

Yeah, I read it. It's hard to take his Celtics bias out of anything he writes, though. Ironically, he said he'd still take Hakeem #1 over Jordan even knowing then what he knows now.

To answer the question, starting a team today, with today's rules, you could have any player, from any time at 21-years-old. I'd take Wilt.

Not even close.

And #2 might be Shaq.

Not saying Shaq is the #2 greatest player. But maybe the easiest to build a champion around.

Agreed. In his prime, there was absolutely no one that could even slow him down. Actually, check that, he could slow himself down.

Bill Russel and Wilt in their primes were pretty damn good and light years ahead of the game.

Plus Shaq is just a giant git who i despise more and more every day (Yeah shaq, getting engaged to a reality tv whore is a smart idea)

I don't put Shaq high in the "greatest ever" list because of his lack of skill.

But in terms of dominance and ability to build a champion around he is near the top. There is little question that early Kobe and Wad would not have sniffed a title without Shaq. He changed the game- even if it was simply his dominant size and athleticism.

I'm with you on Wilt over MJ. Good luck convincing people, though.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Aug 26 at 14:51
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Are you so sure Wilts game would even translate to today. I wouldn't even pretend to have seen enough footage of him playing to know, but it was a different game. Same way I feel about watching Oscar Robertson and how it looks like he'd be a turnover machine in todays game with his handles.

There still aren't any 7-footers who could move like Wilt in the league. He'd be unstoppable, imo.

Yeah- not to many 7' track stars out there in any generation. Probably Hakeem was the closest athletically, but not nearly as big/strong.

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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Aug 31 at 15:39
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While it is hard to know this, I would guess that there was no player in NBA history who probably saw more physical abuse than Wilt (especially given how poor he was from the FT line)...and I would guess that he got little love from the refs on the defensive end, either (which makes the fact that he never fouled out of a game in his career even more amazing).

In today's NBA, with as much contact as they let go, nobody would ever score on Wilt...EVER.

I don't think JOrdan is a given at #1 either due to the importance of big men in general, but the discussion premise was that Jordan was a given at #1 so who was next :)

It was laker fan related so some guy was upset that Magic wasn't #2

MJ would have risen to the occasion and forced Wade into some lousy, inefficient shooting nights. While MJ on offense was typically deadly efficient. On the flip side, they allowed more hand checking back then...

Look at this season MJ had:

35pts, .535FG%, 5.5 reb, 5.9asst, 3.2stl, 1.6 blks, 10.5 FTA at84%

Then the next year
32.5pts, .538FG%, 8 reb, 8asst, 2.9stl, 0.8 blks, 9.8 FTA at85%

Your observatins about Collins' offensive schemes fit with my memories of those teams, and it was one reason I was lukewarm on Collins when his name surfaced. I suspect it is not so much that he is in love with isolation as he takes the approach of trying to get a controlled outcome rather than let the players just improvise and react to the defense. When I try to imagine how that idea extends to the current Sixer team, I start thinking about more minutes for LouWill than what everyone is expecting. Then I shake my head and let go of the expectation making process.

Like others, I've been encouraged by Collins' early initiatives and success with forging good relationships with the current Sixer players even during the off season.

The Bulls had a lot of great defensive teams - the one's with Horace Grant were tops also. It's interesting that they were so good at denying penetration even when they often had mediocre players/athletes at PG.

Your point about Lou and isolation is valid. If you ignore defense... the Sixers top isolation players are:

Lou
.
.
Jrue
Thad
.
Iguodala

Not sure where Turner slots in this year and in the future. We'll have to wait and see. But Lou is one of the top isolation guards in the league IMO. He gets past his man at will and is a good scorer in the paint.

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Alvin reply to tk76 on Aug 26 at 17:14
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It's only a weapon if you know how to best utilise it. I agree Lou can get past his man most of the time.

The question is if he will look at that as the first option all the time, or just get lazy and jack up 17 or 20 foot jumpers.

Or jump in the air, then decide to pass.

Jrue has the jump pass issue too- but at least he knows it. I remember the SL interview with Steve Smith where he said it was one of the problems he was working on.


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