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Jrue or Turner?

I actually think it will be Jrue. My point was that we selected Turner with the number two pick in hopes that he would be the number one scoring option. I want to see him be that efficient 20 ppg guy. You basically pull the plug on that by getting Melo. Taking it further with regards to Jrue, Melo is a high-usage player who has played on teams whose offensive philosophy was 'OK, it's my turn to shoot now because I haven't touched it recently.' Don't get me wrong, I think the guy is an excellent player and not a bad guy. Do you wan't him playing with a ball dominant wing though? Turner will still get offense run through him. Let's see the lid develop the right way, the sky's the limit.

Hmmn. I don't really see Melo as ball dominant, which sounds crazy when you look at the number of shots he takes, but what I mean is that he isn't really initiating offense, or starting plays. He's finishing plays, and finishing a whole lot of them. He doesn't get a whole lot of assists, I don't have synergy access here, but I'd guess the majority of his possessions are some for of isolation (in the post, or on the perimeter). That type of game could work pretty well w/ two other wings who use their dribble to set up others, like Jrue and Turner. He's probably a better fit than Iguodala in that his skill set isn't as redundant.

My main concern is that we're going to wind up with three guys who love passing it and making plays for others and zero players who are finishers in the half court. The beneficiary of the creation.

Anyway, none of this is to say I think Turner's a bust or anything, I just think Jrue's ceiling is very, very high and he's got everything needed to reach it. I'm not sure Turner's is quite as high. Best case, they're a kick ass back court for the next decade and we only have to worry about the FO screwing up 60% of the starting lineup w/ dumb moves.

I love Jrue but Turner will be this teams best player by 2011. His craftiness at his age in unheard of. These two should form one of the best 2 or 3 backcourts in the league in another year or so.

I also think that by the middle of this season the ball will be in Turner's hands the majority of the time. At Ohio State he initiated the offense about 98% of the time. Ive been looking at almost every play of his junior year on Synergy and now am fully confident we made the right pick taking him over Favors.

See, that scares me. I don't want the ball in his hands that much, Jrue's a prototypical point imo and I want him initiating offense.

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Mike P reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 15:40
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It should be like 65/35 Jrue/Turner.

I just want both of them to get as much PT as possible so they can work out all these youth kinks as fast as possible and get used to playing the NBA game.

If we keep Iggy, we will have one of the most interesting 3/2/1's in the entire league in terms of length, ball handling ability, defense, and ability to attack the rim.

Too bad we don't have a big man who can play in the post and bang. I hope Collins gets us running this and doesn't play slowball calling a play everytime like he usually does.

Anyone think we need trade some of our forwards before the season starts? We have like 7 forwards.

I guess you could move Thad, Speights or Igudoala...maybe Kapono and later in the year Songaila because they're both expiring contracts. The problem is I don't think there's a whole lot of value in there and if they do move them, will they really be able to get what they need in return, namely a big who can defend and rebound? I find it unlikely, unfortunately.

I'd say in terms of guys who you just can't trade it goes #1: Elton Brand, #2: Andres Nocioni. Nobody's going to take either unless you get a worse contract in return, which we obviously don't want.

I'd still love the Lou Williams for Marcin Gortat deal.

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Mike P reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 15:49
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Was that ever on the table? Or it is blog dreaming like getting Favors? (the gortat trade)

Me dreaming.

I wouldn't worry about 95% of the time in philly, he carried that OSU team because of a lesser amount of talent.

I'm also not voting in this poll yet because I don't believe there's enough available information.

Is today media day for the Sixers?

Yeah, they had some live video up on Sixers.com earlier, but the audio wasn't working, so it was kind of pointless.

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 15:39
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Had Brand/Iguodala talk for 20 minutes, then Holiday/Turner for 10 and Young/Williams for about 10.

Camp starts tomorrow morning with two-a-days Tuesday and Wednesday.

Did Lou spend the whole time talking about how much he's going to score this year?

Yeah I actually think they both have a chance to be excellent players at their positions in a couple years. Jrue has that strength, agility, and court vision. Turner brings that playmaking ability and rebounding. I think he can learn to run off screens and play really well with Jrue. They both have great attitude and work ethic, and that's part of the reason I'm so high on the Sixers future.

I think that's also why we need to get a young big man like Favors. He would be perfect to play alongside Jrue and Turner. He could hold the fort defensively and get so many easy looks off passes from our guards. It's the perfect time to rebuild with a young athletic team that can grow together.

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 15:42
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Iguodala on all the coaching changes: "We've got a good coach in here. If we want him to stay around, we have to do what we need to do on the court."

I for one think that Jrue will actually be much better then Turner. Turner will be a very solid player, but his ceiling is simply not that high and even if everything goes right, he is basicly Brandon Roy at most (probably not as good as him). The reality is Turner will wind up being slightly worse than Igoudala (which is stil pretty good and worthy of a top 5 pick), and more importantly not nearly as good as Anthony who IMO is very underrated among Sixer fans.

So what i don't get is why is everybody so excited for a Jrue Turner backcourt, when it can never be as good as a Jrue Anthony one.

I love having young players on the team and watch them develop as much as anyone, but we are starting to sound like Ed Stefanski by overvaluing our own young players.

I think the opposite is actually true, for the most part. Do a Twitter search for Sixers and see what comes up. If anything, our fans overvalue Melo for the same reason they undervalue Iguodala, PPG is the only thing that matters.

As far as our own young talent, I haven't seen anyone say they wouldn't trade Turner in a package for Melo, have you? I'd do that in a second. But he isn't a SG.

Because a Jrue Turner Iguodala trio is better than a Jrue Anthony duo (and anthony isn't a 2 guard)

Wait, is someone saying Iguodala + Turner for Melo? That's dumb.

I was responding to this comment

So what i don't get is why is everybody so excited for a Jrue Turner backcourt, when it can never be as good as a Jrue Anthony one.

Gotcha.

For the record, I'd rather have Jrue, Iguodala and Anthony than Jrue, Turner, Iguodala.

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Mike P reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 16:02
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That would be like the super version of what we imagined Jrue/Iggy/Thad could be. That would be best case scenario maybe.

If we could get Melo for Turner and some change I'd be all for that.

Why can't we just mimic the Favors deal with Turner? If we could extend Melo would you guys be for that?

Turner and expirings with our 1st round pick next year for Melo in some form?

Exactly my reasoning.... we can even ad Thad if need be...

I was just comparing the pairing, of course Anthony is not a SG. What i am trying to say is instead of trying to go fully young (which i am usually a proponent of) we can jump a few steps and become better than we can ever be.

Considering the trades everyone proposes what do you guys think which trio is better (at their best)
- Jrue / Turner / Favors
- Jrue / Igoudala / Anthony

Favors being a big man changes things a bit, but to me Turner and Favors will never be as good as Igoudala and Anthony...

@Brian I may be mistaken about how we view Anthony, because i only read relevant high quality stuff, with Df being my number one place for fresh new info...

That's much tougher to answer. If you twisted my arm, I'd probably go with Jrue, Iguodala and Anthony, but I have to say this team could be a power for a decade plus if they had Jrue, Turner and Favors and they all came close to their potential.

True. But both Turner and Favors reaching their ceiling is pipe dream if you ask me... the likelihood of that happening is very low (and this is from a guy who prefered Favors over Turner and think Turner has a very good chance to reach his potential)

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 15:45
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Brand: "There's no blaming the coaches this year. We've got a great coach here. It's on us players to get a lot of victories."

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 15:55
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Iguodala said he told Doug Collins and Ed Snider in meetings how good he thinks Holiday is. "I said he'll be one of the top point guards in the league. In his prime, he'll be a top five point guard and he might go down as one of the greatest point guards, defensively. He's got kind of a Gary Payton presence, where he can pressure a guy full-court."

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 16:03
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Holiday on the high praise from Collins and Iguodala: "When they say stuff like that, yes, it definitely does feel good. You have to stay humble -- you can't get too big-headed -- and keep on working."

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 16:04
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If Turner continue to struggle, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Iguodala would start at the 2.

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Tom Moore reply to Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 16:04
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*continues

Did Collins say this?

Do you think that means Thad at the three, or maybe Nocioni? Ugh for the latter.

I think Collins signalled about this even during his interview the other day, by saying Igoudala will play some 2 and later not mentioning Turner among the 7 double digit scorers

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Tom Moore reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 16:12
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Collins said at Thursday's luncheon that Iguodala will be playing the 2 and 3, after saying all along prior to then that Iguodala would just be a 3. He also said he doesn't want to put a lot of pressure on Turner. Hence, the perception that maybe Turner isn't a lock to start at the 2 spot.

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 16:07
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More Holiday: "I don't really have to react to (all the hype). Since I got a chance to play after the all-star break, my confidence built from there."

I'm with Brian...I think it will be Jrue! With all due respect to Turner (as he will be a very good player) Jrue, IMO, not only plays with great intensity but outstanding defense as well. Plus, he got great vision on the court as well whther dishing an assist/lob for an alley-oop or kniefing his way to the basket as he displayed last year/in the summer league! Again, Turner will be good but IMO this will soon be Jrue's team!

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Old School Sixer Fan reply to khouse on Sep 27 at 17:49
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I wonder if we are all expecting too much from Jrue. he played well during the second half of the year, but it was only one half of a year. Two years ago we had similar expectations for Thad. Now, after a year under Jordan, most would trade Thad for cap space or want to resign him cheap as a bench player.
Let's be reasonable in our expectations.

Would you do a trade of Iguodala for Wes Johnson and a future pick? I probably wouldn't have at the draft, but I think I would now. Because we're not set up to contend for a championship this year or next. I think it's also possible in 3 years Johnson could be a better fit on the Sixers with his ablility to space the floor and shoot from range, and be a more than capable finisher. Providing we can get a good frontcourt player through the draft or trade, it could be a very solid team going forward.

I'd prefer some kind of answer in the front court to Wes Johnson. If it was an unprotected first round pick from Minny, though, I'd consider it.

Yeah I can't disagree about the front court. If we keep Iguodala and try to turn this thing around more quickly, do you think maybe Nene could be the answer? I've always liked him as a player, and he'll be available if the Nuggets trade Carmelo. Maybe a package of Thad, Speights, and Kapono gets it done?

Eh. He's an offensive big, doesn't help w/ the defense or the rebounding imo.

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Old School Sixer Fan reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 17:44
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If Nene is an offensive minded big, what would be the point. We have Speights and Hawes already. What we need is a younger Sam Dalembert with a better attitude. What players around the league fit that combination?

Joakim Noah, but I don't see how we could get him. I like Marc Gasol, who isn't as good a defender, and we probably won't have the money for him at free agency anyway. The one guy who you could probably get for expirings is Andris Biedrins from golden state, because he has a few years left on his contract at 9 million per. He was mostly hurt last year, but had 3 good seasons prior to that. Besides the money, I'm just not sure I could stand watching him shoot free throws the way he does. Basically, I guess we just gotta wait and try to get one in the draft next year. Or hope the 2008 version of Marcus Camby shows up at camp tomorrow. Sigh.

If the future pick is next years unprotected first and we send Nocioni to Minny in the package, then YES, otherwise NOOOO!!!

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Jason reply to Xsago on Sep 27 at 17:17
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I don't think Minn can trade their 2011 pick?

Hmmn...they used their #1 pick this summer, so the only reason they wouldn't be able to deal their #1 in 2011 is if they've already dealt their #1 in 2012.

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 18:12
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Iguodala on the Sixers’ defensive deficiencies under Eddie Jordan: "I think we just didn’t have that emphasis on the defensive end. Last year, there was a lot of emphasis on the Princeton offense. It’s the Princeton offense — you’ve got to have Princeton minds. We’ve got great athletes, but they may not have the minds," he said, smiling.

Hey thad, he's talking bout you

Jrue is going to be a great point guard but I think Turner will be the better player. Turner is getting bad press because of his summer league performance, which is ridiculous in my opinion. The guy was a scoring machine in college, played against good competition, has a great attitude, plays defense, and rebounds. I agree with steve v, this backcourt will be beastly.

you are leaving out a huge part of the equation in terms of building a contender. it is j,t,favors for 12m vs j,i,melo for 40m.

for me that's a no brainer since the other 28 m would allow you to add more top players.

I'd take J,I,Melo + Dwight Howard in two summers, regardless of the cost.

quote
slyv on Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:13 pm Broussard just said on ESPN that
the the Sixers offer for Melo is
Evan Turner,Thad,Kopono,and draft
picks......shrugs

Saw that. I'd do that deal. Team would be good enough to possibly draw Dwight Howard in his free agent summer, and they'd have the cap space assuming they were smart about it. May as well swing for the fences.

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Mike P reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 20:16
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Orlando is about to offer Dwight an extension this year.

I wouldn't get our hopes up.

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Mike P reply to Mike P on Sep 27 at 20:17
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I mean this summer, god I can't read.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 20:30
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I don't think you do the deal in hopes of landing another star in 2 years. Saw far too many teams get burnt with that approach this summer. I don't really think an Iguodala/Melo combo puts us anywhere near contention in the East. Seems like another attempt at a quick fix to me.

The front court needs to be fixed no matter what, but Iguodala + Melo + Jrue really compliment each other. You'd be hard pressed to find a better 1,2,3 in the league, and they'd be 26, 26 and 20-years old. 4-6 year window with those three and cap space to use right in the middle of it.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Sep 27 at 20:55
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I don't see Dwight leaving Orlando unless they really fall apart. I'm slowly coming around on the idea, but it's a moot point because I don't think Thorn will be able to entice him to resign anyway. I was more on board with trying to get Favors in here.

I'd do that deal too, would Denver?

I wonder if it would be easier to make the deal with a big man who could defend?

Heh. I don't have the energy to look up the contract values, but I have a feeling this deal would put us over the luxury tax.

And I'm not sure about whether Denver would do it or not. Seems like a better deal to me than that four-team deal, if you value Turner higher than Favors. Unless they think AK47 is going to keep them afloat this year.

Yeeesss finally someone thought of the right kind of trade!!!

DH12 and combo works...

I'm down for a deal with Turner as the centerpiece that brings Melo here. Jrue, Iguodala, and Melo in the backcourt would be nice.

God I don't think he'd sign here though.

He'd have to sell him on bringing another star in two summers from now.

Of course, what he should really tell him is that he scores a lot of points so the fans will love him in philly.

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 22:16
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Sixers round out training camp roster with free agent G Chris Quinn, James Florence and C Trent Plaisted. All have make-good contracts.

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deepsixersuede on Sep 27 at 22:28
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I think Turner will be the better player but on this team, I don!t know if it happens. My vision of Turner is a 6'7" p.g. that runs a team and sees the whole floor. This organization tends to have trouble putting the pieces of the puzzle in the proper order. Our new coach has admited Turner works better with the ball in his hands and he and Jrue together may hinder each others games, turning Jrue into a jump shooter or Turner into a stand and catch guy.

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Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 22:37
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Thaddeus Young on Nocioni: "He’s a very physical player. Me, personally, my first year I was like 'who is this guy?' Because he was so aggressive. And that’s what we need as a team. We need guys that are going to be aggressive and physical who are going to go out there and play hard-nosed basketball. That’s what we have to get back to."

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deepsixersuede reply to Tom Moore on Sep 27 at 22:45
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Tom, do you think they carry 15 players, or let Brackins play in the "D" league? I wonder our new coaches philosophy on using the "D" league because Quinn would be a nice addition.


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