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Sixers Vs. Celtics - Preseason Game 4

Shouldn't EB be able to take Shaq away from the hoop fairly easily?

Unless Shaq has changed his stripes since last season, he won't come away from the hoop even if he should. They should run the P&R nonstop with Jrue and EB.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 17:00

I would think that this is the perfect assignment offensively for Brand.

Cheering words from a commenter on my favorite Phillies blog, Beerleaguer This kind of gives you an idea of how non-Sixers-obsessives feel about the team:

Basketball in Philly is similar to the state baseball was in back in the late 80s and most of the 90s, ownership effectively ripped the soul out of the teams with lousy decisions and people running the show that have no interest in the sport themselves (see Ed Snider). Bad contracts paid to bums, no consideration for the fans, etc. The Phillies were able to figure it out in time to save the sport and take over the city entirely, whereas the basketball team seems destined for a decade or more of doom and gloom.

Lets go 70 loss season!


Heh, check out Boston's starting lineup (from Kate Fagan)

Wafer, Robinson, Davis, Daniels, J. O'Neal

Tray reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 18:42

V(akeat)on Wafer can play. So could Daniels for this really exciting three-month stretch many seasons ago.

Tom Moore on Oct 12 at 18:50

Celts are ridiculously deep.

Three seats down from Derek B. in press room.

Tom Moore on Oct 12 at 18:51

Collins on Brand's 2-for-11 shooting Saturday: "He had about 11 shots and I think he had about eight very, very makeable 15-foot jump shots. That’s a shot Elton’s going to have to make for us because when they play him with a bigger player, he’s going to have to step out and make that shot."

I was optomistic that we got turner with the number 2 pick and collins as the coach. I know its only preaseason and summer league but damn this teams been underwhelming with very little if any bright spots. Turner minus one game has been awful, Jrues been bad. I guess Brand isnt out for the season yet so thats a plus ?

Anyone else not getting the game on NBA TV right now?

There we go. Great, Boston broadcast here. Guys in Philly, give me a review of Eric Snow's work if you get a chance.

anyone have a link to watch the game?

Wow, Speights in the lineup for Thad. Wonder what happened.

Tom Moore on Oct 12 at 19:12

Collins on Brand's 2-for-11 shooting Saturday: "He had about 11 shots and I think he had about eight very, very makeable 15-foot jump shots. That’s a shot Elton’s going to have to make for us because when they play him with a bigger player, he’s going to have to step out and make that shot."

Nope, NBATV was wrong, Thad's in there.

Ugly turnover to start things for Philly, Turner cut, Jrue threw the pass where he was.

Thad doesn't box out Davis, Jrue tries but can't. O-board and putback.

Tom Moore on Oct 12 at 19:13

Might be fewer people in the building than at the start of Saturday's 1 p.m. game at Jersey.

Much better decision from Jrue there going to EB.

What percentage of our defensive rebounds will our guards get in this game/this season? Counting both Iguodala and Turner as guards.

Maybe better than 50%, but you can't really count both of them as guards.

Check that, better than 60%?

Tray reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:22

I mean we're at 4 for 4. Thad doesn't get defensive rebounds, Hawes doesn't rebound much period, so you're basically down to Brand and Speights. Oh and Nocioni.

Sixers definitely looking to push. Turner strong on the boards early.

Great board and outlet by ET.

That was a great defensive possession. Iguodala rode Wafer to the baseline, then a bunch of switching, no shot for Boston, transition hoop on the other end.

Man, Thad doesn't even put up a fight defending Big Baby.

I really liked that set where they ran Iggy of two screens and EB had a wide open 10 footer. Missed it, but good set.

Every shot I've seen so far from Iggy has been a jumper.

That is distressing.

Mike P reply to Mike P on Oct 12 at 19:21

Except for the dunk of course.

Well, he's 2/3 with a dunk. Not sure it's really time to start complaining about his shot selection.

Of course it is - he sucks remember?

The fourth shot was questionable. 17-footer off the dribble.

Mike P reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:25

Hahah Andre "Unstoppable in Transition" Igoudala.

Hahaha BONK.

That mic needs to go if the Sixers are going to shoot this badly. BONK.

At least our jerseys are silky smooth.

Collins' offense looking pretty good. Another great set frees up Jrue off a flex cut.

As for Thad's defense. Well, no.

That was a nice play, and he finished on the inside w/ his right hand :)

johnrosz on Oct 12 at 19:21

Rebounding is going to be an adventure this year

That three by Robinson was a direct result of Thad not being able to handle Davis down low.

Disagree with the guy who said he's not trying. Thad's trying, he's outweighed by ~70-75 lbs.

Didn't like that pull by Jrue early in the shot-clock. Like to attack the lane there.

Two bad breaks right around there. Jrue's three and then Thad's walk. Have to do better in transition if that's basically you're only legitimate offensive weapon.

Jrue open for three!


The 2010-11 Sixers everybody!

Hopefully you'll tire of these kind of comments soon.

Mike P reply to GoSixers on Oct 12 at 19:36

Nope! Team is garbage!

But I want them to be better. I truly do.

Nocioni with the TOUGH airball.

I like Snow infinitely better than Pinckney already

Lou and Speights in for Brand and Jrue.

Speights and Nate Robinson with the offsetting techs. Seems kind of strange in a preseason game.

T McL reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:29

If Vegas had odds for that exact scenario happening I would have taken it

Tom Moore on Oct 12 at 19:29

JO had seven rebs already.

And zero defensive boards for the Sixers "bigs."

Tray reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:39

One for Thad, one for Nocioni. They're big by 2010 Sixers standards.

Thad doesn't have one. Speights just grabbed the second for the bigs. It's 10-2 smalls now. Lou grabbed one.

Tray reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:50

The box score says he does; that's where I got that from.

He had 1 offensive, 1 total at the time. He's since picked one up. On ESPN's box, that is.

Players off screens finding the screeners for good looks. Lou to Thad there.

Turner definitely running the point w/ this lineup.

Meeks and Nocioni for Thad and Turner. Nocioni at the four.

T McL reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:34

Nocioni has been talked about for the past 2 minutes non-stop

How many times did they say tough?

T McL reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:54

I believe the word used most was "hard-nosed"

Perfect nickname for him. Andres "Hard Nose"ioni

Avery Bradley in for the Celts, really wish the Sixers could've found a way to get a late first round pick to grab him.

Wasn't Bradley ranked as one of the top prospect the previous season? Wonder why he slipped down to late first round, was it injury concerns?

He didn't play up to expectations as a frosh. Defense was there, offense was shaky.

Mike P reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:38

You and like everyone on here.

Remember how depressing the draft was? Every pick we were like "WHY AREN'T WE MOVING UP"

That sucked.

Tom Moore on Oct 12 at 19:34

Celtics JV is hanging in there.

Nice airball for the mullet.

Nocioni air balls the long two to end the quarter. But he looked good doing it.

Sixers up by 4, 25-21.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:37

That's alright, it was 'smooth.' I really liked the player movement with the 1st team.

Jrue + Turner + Iguodala = 9 defensive boards.

Thad + Brand + Speights + Nocioni = 1 defensive board.

And the one Nocioni grabbed was on a missed free throw.

I bet you it was a tough missed free throw

Jrue back in to start the second. REALLY small lineup here:

Jrue, Lou, Meeks, Nocioni, Speights.

Why is Lou running the point with Jrue out there?

Good question.

Tough three. He's rocking a modified mullet.

Am I crazy or is Lou Williams making some very sound decisions offensively?

He had one bad pass in transition, that was a nice play w/ Speights, though.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:46

4 assists, one turn.

Turner in for Lou. I believe Meeks is playing the three.

Another air ball for Nocioni.

3 fouls on Speights.

Brand in for Speights.

Ugh, Meeks stuffed on a breakaway dunk/layup attempt.

Sixers doing a good job fighting through screens on the perimeter.

Starting lineup back on the floor now, bench kept it at a 4-point game against third-string Celts.

Early in the game, but I'm not in love with Jrue's decision making.

Turner running the point now. Nice give-and-go, he finishes and gets the foul.

If the Sixers bigs could play against Erden all year, then they might be in business.

Is this some sort of new trend with our young rookies having sophomore curses in their second years?

Thad looks a bit out of control to me.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 19:57

A bit????

Well, his normal game is a lot of those crazy spins, they just seem crazier to me tonight.

so no link to this game for those of us sans nbatv?

great... Harangody is owning us

How many points have been scored on Thad? Conservative estimate is 20.

Turner burned badly on that cut by Daniels.

I believe Thad's man has at least 16 points right now (Harangody + Davis + that rook).

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 20:02

It looks like that's where Turner is going to have to learn more defensively, communicating on screens in the lane. Looks to me that he has the one-on-one and rebounding parts down.

I guess we could take comfort in the fact that Miami is losing to CSKA Moscow. I think CSKA Moscow is better than Boston's bench, though.

Is Miami playing their starters or is this like the lakers losing to the wolves?

The team that Boston is fielding tonight wouldn't win 10 games in a full season. Keep that in mind.

Tray reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 20:07

Also keep in mind that they're doing this in spite of massive turnover problems.

Nocioni, rejected.

Nocioni, brick (long two).

Turner looking more comfortable today. Good pass up to Lou for the easy bucket.

Nocioni has the wide-open three, dribbles into the long two. He did hit it, though.

Uh, what was that? Turner air balls a layup.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 20:10

Think he was going to try and throw it down, then got kind of caught between that and laying it in

Damn he's gotta finish that. He looks good though, maybe not assertive enough?

Nocioni w/ his second foul 20+ feet from the hoop, leading to FTs.

Sixers down by 1 after the first half, 46-47.

Tale of the tape:

Sixers smalls = 10 defensive rebounds
Sixers bigs = 2 defensive rebounds (in 24 minutes of work). I'll do the math for you, that's 3 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes, or 1.5 defensive rebounds per 36 minutes per position.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 20:14

Thad's defense was Willie-esque that quarter. Collins took him out for Nocioni he was so bad.

Heh. It's going to be a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG season.

Tray reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 20:17

Maybe we should've put off hiring a professional coach until next season. I guess that would've been bad for Turner.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 20:19

When a starter who the team may give an extension to can't defend Luke Harangoofy, I think you may be right.

Maybe the Celtics practice squad would like to trade for Nocioni?

Unless changes are made to our line-up (and soon) no one is going to pay to see a team who can't beat the Celtics B-team lol!

What changes would you suggest they make?

khouse reply to GoSixers on Oct 12 at 21:08


Not likely to occur but we use some of Dalembert's trade exception for Thompson who is going to get squeezed in the King's rotation & who they have lost some confidence in.

Turner running the point on the first two possessions of the second half.

What kind of charge was that on Thad???

This is untenable. Thad is getting bent over by everyone on the Celts front line.

18 points for Nate Robinson. This is kind of pitiful.

Why is Jrue cheating off Robinson to help Iguodala with Marquis Daniels? That's asinine.

Kapono in for Turner.

Tommy H: "Young is never going to foul out of the game."

Anonymous on Oct 12 at 20:41

Has Turner played this bad in all the preseason games?

Not sure he's really played bad tonight, he's just been a non-factor.

It's good we finally get a look at this Nocioni-Kopono combination out there.

Finally, the vaunted Nocioni/Kapono forward combination.

Lou is playing well. He's basically the only one.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 12 at 20:49

Negative Tommy Point on the Nate foul though.

He's still setting the curve in this game. I think I may be feeling even worse about this team than I was when they played in Boston.

EB and Iguodala are gonna take this game over for a narrow win. Where's the good ball movement we saw in the first quarter?

Rich reply to Rich on Oct 12 at 20:55

Lou too.

Yup. Iguodala is keeping the ball in his hands now. I believe he did the same in the Nets game.

Would you make this trade?

Okafor for Thad, Lou and Hawes

Would Okafor's contract be worth it to help solve our rebounding and interior defense?

Jason reply to 4What on Oct 12 at 20:58

No, we would improve, but we wouldn't be a perennial playoff lock or even close to a contender.


He'd certainly help. Matt Geiger would help. But that contract basically locks you into this roster for the next three years and he may just make you good enough to move from a top-five pick to a 10-15 pick in the first round.

Hypothetically say Ed Stef/thorn decides to sign thad young and hawes to an extending contracts. wouldn't they equal Okafors contract and wouldnt we would be better with Okafor then thad and Hawes especially since that seems to be filling our biggest weakness.

I mean, you're basically saying, "Given the choice between a disgustingly idiotic decision (signing Hawes and Thad) and just an idiotic decision (trading for Okafor), shouldn't we do the idiotic thing?"

The answer is to do neither.

My question is whether or not the Sixers can expect to get any inside help in today's NBA. You either have to strike gold and hope a Speights will pan out, or you have to get lucky with top 3 pick (I guess this is where Brian's love with Favors comes into play). Under this rationale, is Okafur the best inside presence Sixers fans can hope for with the lack of movable free agents and no more top 3 picks for a while. Or is the consensus that you just have to keep going for the top 3 picks and finally get a capable player down low?

Are you confident there won't be any more top three picks for a while?

I think at this point, I am no longer confident that a team can build a contender in today's NBA, with or without a run of top 3 picks. And I am even less confident that I can last a whole season watching no rebounds by anyone other than a guard or wing. Is Matt Geiger available? Ill take him.

lou been working on his jumper?

Lou's playing really well...I'm just going to leave it at that. He's been a pleasure to watch tonight.

Kapono pulling the trigger faster this year?

He wouldn't have taken that last one last season. That's for sure.

Awesome fast break there. Jrue to Turner to Speights, ball only hit the floor when Speights was about to dunk it.

Jrue dribbled once :)

Jrue defensive board in traffic, one dribble, 60-foot diagonal pass to Turner, no dribble, bounce pass to Speights, no dribble, dunk.


Jrue was overdribbling there.

The play where he got fouled? Yep.

Speights draws the charge. It's something.

Thad can't stay with Harangody. Something to chew on for those who blamed his defense last year all on Jordan.

I just can't escape the feeling that we drafted a less athletic version of Iguodala. He was supposed to be a scorer, not another rebounder and passer, or a guy who could only score if you made him your point guard.

Simple, yet effective play by Jrue there to the P and R and get the ball to Speights.

Good read by Thad, good shot by Kapono. He's looking like a gunner :)

4-point play. Pretty funny.

Speights is picking it up now. Speights would dominate against the Sixers (and that's probably what happened in that scrimmage yesterday).

Speights has been really good this quarter. He's a plus-20 for the game.

Jrue is quietly turning his game around here. 7,7,7 now.

Any guesses as to Collins' post game quotes?

I'll go with:

"I'm just so happy these guys got that taste of winning."

This great shooting quater somehow feels kinda empty.

Turner is like a ghost out there.

NBA.com cuts away from the final 13.7 seconds. Robbing me of a chance to see the team celebrate their first win of the season.

One down, about 21 to go!

Speights leading the way with a +22 vs the celtics b-team and c-team. Does that mean anything?

The one thing I'll say about Turner is that he was not assertive at all tonight.

A very good 4th quarter at the least- Jrue, Speights, Lou and Kapono (wow) leading the way. Thad was pretty bad at both ends.

general tso on Oct 12 at 22:06

You guys should start calling him Evan "Turnover"...LOL!!!

Stat of the night:

Starting C (Brand) and PF (Young) combined for 1 defensive rebound in 57+ minutes.

That is something.

Tom Moore on Oct 12 at 22:37

The Celtics went with a group featuring three rookies (Avery Bradley, Luke Harongody, Semih Erden), second-year pro Stephane Lasme and fourth-year man Mario West for one fourth-quarter stretch. Yikes.

eddies' heady's on Oct 12 at 22:42

Man, that was tough. Real tough.

As I and several others said last year, it doesn't matter who you bring in to coach these sad sacks. They could seriously pass off as a whole team of D-Leaguers. I wouldn't have much incentive to pick but only a few of them on my team at the Y.

It just pains me to think I am going to fork over damn near $200 to watch approximately 80 games of this.

It's even more painful to just give thought to what management has turned this once proud franchise into. Nothing but a training grounds. A glorified season of nothing but practice to see who can play with who, or who can play what position, or who even belongs in the rotation, or for that matter, in the league.

But hey, we've got the most NBA ready player in the draft in one Evan Turner. Guess that's a positive. Even though he looks just as pedestrian as he did in college, considering the mediocre talent level called the Big Ten he competed against. Must have been nice to play against those studs on Iowa's team or Northwestern's.

Rodney Buford on Oct 12 at 22:44

Quick Rod - trade Kapono and Nocioni NOW :)

Eddie's Heady's, were you the guy who liked Wesley Johnson? He's made 13 of his 22 preseason shots - 16 points in 19 minutes tonight. While I completely buy the "he'll always be a complementary player" line, this looks to be the case of Turner as well. Arguably even more so in his case than Johnson's.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Oct 13 at 0:12

Sure I liked the Johnson kid. He may or may not pan out either though. I just felt he was a much better fit with this roster considering Andre can succeed at the three and with Jrue possibly coming into his own at point guard.

Arguments have been made that 'fit' doesn't matter with this group so you have to take the best available player. Well, to me, Evan Turner (from watching both Evan and Wesley Johnson's last two college years) wasn't even the best available player of the two.

Others made statements on here in the run-up to the draft that Wesley didn't have a handle or enough of an all around game to go that high. My argument was that - so what?- if he doesn't have a handle, we have Jrue and maybe Andre (still too turnover prone) for that. So what on the all-around game too. We have Andre definitely for that one sans the shooting. We have needed a shooter(s) for years since Stefanski short-sightedly traded Korver. Wesley could have provided you a shooter that also possessed the coveted athleticism.

It just makes you wonder what all these supposed GM's and draftniks were looking at when evaluating Turner. Was it just his numbers from college or something? It wasn't hard to see if watching his college career that this guy would never come close to being a star in this league.

Appears to be just another in a long line of players the Sixers have tried to "convert" to a position that isn't their strength. At least we got us a backup point guard though - that was also a gaping hole on the roster:)

Well, the idea was that Turner had what it took to be a legit #1 scorer and Wesley Johnson had what it took to be J.R. Smith, minus the insanity but also minus some of the assertiveness.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Oct 13 at 1:32

Let's just say I'd rather have JR Smith than Turner, for this team.

johnrosz reply to Tray on Oct 13 at 1:33

You guys are talking as if you have already penciled in Turner as a bust after 4 preseason games. Incredible.

eddies' heady's reply to johnrosz on Oct 13 at 1:43

Well actually, in truth, I did before the season ever started. Not long after the draft I think. May have been before the draft.

These preseason games just serve as a premature confirmation.

johnrosz on Oct 12 at 23:29

Just a word of advice to all of you. If you're not going to be patient with a team that is incredibly young/sucks, you're going to drive yourself nuts.

Did everyone expect Collins to just come in and turn it all around in one night?

Evan Turner is going to come in and drop 25 in his sleep in his first preseason?

Thad is going to magically drop all the bad habits he learned under the poor coaching of the last 3 years in a matter of weeks?

Collins is trying to implement a system on both ends of the floor. It's going to take time.

eddies' heady's reply to johnrosz on Oct 13 at 0:17

Patience? Try 27 going on 28 years worth.

Systems don't mean squat when one lacks adequate personnel. Why do you think he already scrapped one just last week?

johnrosz reply to eddies' heady's on Oct 13 at 0:55

How about you give ET until March before you take a big dump on him. That's all I'm asking. The thought of screwing up the number 2 pick makes me ill, I'd just like to remain optimistic about it until there's a reasonable enough sample size to judge what ET is going to be in the NBA.

eddies' heady's reply to johnrosz on Oct 13 at 1:27

My pessimism (or realism) should in no way affect your optimism. You're just setting yourself up for a harder fall waiting until March. I've seen enough already (meaning vs college competition).

Remember all those excuses about he hadn't played before Summer League? Well, he still looks almost ordinary-like and he's been in training camp for a month.

What's the next excuse?

johnrosz reply to eddies' heady's on Oct 13 at 1:44

I don't know. He hasn't wowed me yet obviously. I do like that he has a knack for rebounding and finds his teammates in good spots to score. He's got the ability to get to the line as well,and a smooth transition player. Some guys never do these things. It's frustrating to watch him defer on offense and disappear at times but again, its preseason. I want to see what happens when he takes more than 6-8 FGA per night before I declare him an offensive nightmare like others have.

Cousins had a nice game tonight, but he's had some trouble fouling out after 20+ minutes, poor offensive efficiency, turning the ball over,etc...

I think just about all the rookies are struggling in one way or another, we just don't have them under the microscope here the same way we do with ET.

Hyped, engaging, finnicky, vacillating, good guy Doug might not make it through this season. He already looks haggard and nearing a nervous breakdown. Obviously, he's seeing his roster and season prospects clearly.

Tonight's episode of The Eddie Stefanski Show was brought to you by Comcast, makers of much money.

Its obvious this team still needs a #1 scorer. Either this offense is not a match for Turner or he just isn't athletic enough to score at this level.
Early in the game Collins tried to make go through Dre as the scorer of of curls but he settled for elbow jump shots. Better than jacking up a 3 but still not getting to the rim. And against the Celtics reserves he only gets up 7 shots. He should dominate that competition. DOMINATE!!! I'm tired of people saying thats not his game but he sais he'll do whatever is needed to win. Well this team just needs a consistant 20+ a game scorer. I think thats why so many Sixers fans are so down on Dre. They see the flashes of a top 10 player in this leauge then you see him disapear against lesser players. dre needs to eat some gun powder and pepperseeds to get that killer instinct for 82 games.
Say whatever you want but woulndt you like to have Jason Smith back right now? Atleast he was willing to try and defend the paint. Little arms and all, he gave good effort on the defensive end.

Court_visioN reply to KellyDad on Oct 12 at 23:53

i lol'd

Me too.

Joe reply to KellyDad on Oct 13 at 7:28

Andre Iguodala must just think... "damned if I do, dammned if I don't"

As a 21 ppg scorer or a 17 ppg scorer, he will have essentially the same effect on the game. What you want would have little effect on the team's season.

We know who Iguodala is and he is great. The young guys will sink or swim and they are sinking right now. Some have been sinking for years like Thad or Hawes.

Tom Moore on Oct 13 at 0:24

Was surprised at how "blah" the Sixers played for 2 1/2 quarters against the Celtics' sophomore team.

Cousins with 20 and 8 in 22 minutes. Only took 12 shots.

Statman on Oct 13 at 0:53

A few thoughts on this game, most already mentioned in passing in the comments above:
* I thought Lou outplayed Jrue both offensively and defensively. The stats don't show it, but Lou got his hands on 5-6 balls and kept Nate Robinson in front of him. I'd have to watch it again, but I'm almost positive Nate got most of his points against Jrue. On offense, Lou got credit for 5 assists but almost always made the right pass.
* Give credit to Jrue for making his last three shots and finishing strong, but he really struggled on defense, constantly letting Nate Robinson drive by him (and once helping unnecessarily on Daniels guarded by Iguodala, leaving Robinson wide-open for 3). On offense, Jrue is better when he's making simple passes and not over-dribbling.
* Seriously, if Thad Young can't stop Luke Harangody, there isn't anybody he's going to stop. The worst play was when Harangody drove by him and eventually put in a 5-foot bank shot. On the positive side, Thad made some good plays on help defense, and the team as a whole seems to be better at getting back to their man after hedging on the P/R.
* Kapono gives, Kapono takes away. 4 threes were nice, as were some good swings of the ball, but it's no accident he was the worst-rated defender in the NBA last year by some measures.
* Turner's shining moment was on the three-point play, where he showed good body control in finishing. His other basket was an open 10-footer. Both baskets reminiscent of Andre Miller, once again.
* Still waiting to see one of these effective screens they've been writing about. The Sixers are probably the worst team in the league at setting good screens.

Sixers on NBA TV again tomorrow ...

Jason reply to Statman on Oct 13 at 1:46

Thanks for posting this, always enjoy reading your thoughts after a game.

johnrosz on Oct 13 at 1:11

What is up with Iguodala and those Steve Urkel glasses he had on in the post game interview? Who decided that was a cool trend.

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