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Just a Fun Game

Fun story about Brandon Roy playing w/ Andre Miller:

Brandon Roy was asked about the Blazers problems on offense during the preseason and he has a fix.

"I want the ball a lot more," Roy told Portland media, including The Oregonian.

Roy said he has spoken with head coach Nate McMillan about returning to the offensive style they ran during the 2008-09 season.

"I want to be maximized every game," Roy said. "That's a position that I'm strong with, with the basketball, and I'm extremely confident with it."

According to the newspaper, McMillan won't radically change the offense.

Roy's comments Wednesday didn't sit well with Dwight Jaynes.

Jaynes writes: "I thought by now we were finished with all this garbage. But it looks to me as if it's still Brandon Roy vs. Andre Miller -- with Coach Nate McMillan caught somewhere in the middle. And frankly, this is ridiculous stuff coming from the captain of your team. ... Was he attempting to torpedo Miller? Was it a veiled threat to McMillan to make sure he gets that offense changed? Or was it just an honest answer to a pointed question? Doesn't matter. It came off poorly and the random sampling of Blazer fans I've talked to who have heard it didn't like it."

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 10:22

This is basketball's version of a QB controversy. Miller's play last year while Roy was injured (Game 1 performance last year in the playoffs topped it off in Phoenix) was the worst thing that happened to Roy. Ball-dominant players can be pretty sensitive.

That's why I think it's so important to get Turner comfortable off the ball asap. It'll help that he's coming into the league with Jrue in place.

Brandon Roy isn't selfish though, he just wants to win.

Yep, just look at his PPG.

tk76 reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:08

You can't write PPG without PG.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Oct 14 at 11:09

Although in this case Roy would like to.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 14:23

He did play with a torn meniscus last year. I wouldn't question his desire to win.

I wasn't.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 14:26

My bad. That was directed more towards Brian and TK76 suggesting he was kinda selfish

Being selfish and wanting to win aren't mutually exclusive. I'd say Iverson had a healthy dose of both throughout his career. Wanting to win, and doing what's best for your team to win are also two different things.

Good to hear Speights' injury isn't too bad. If we're going to have big men jacking jumpers all day, I'd rather see it from him. God this team is bad.

deepsixersuede on Oct 14 at 11:05

Who gets their shot off easier nowadays, Elton or R.Evans. And did you guys see J.Smith's numbers last night? Not earth shattering but not bad.

Rating of the vertically challenged Sixers (present and former) from best to worst leaper:

Marc Jackson

Neither one of them could leap over a loaf of bread.

I just posted this comment over at LB. Its my current convoluted rationalization of why I still think Turner will be great for the Sixers (and BTW I like that rebounding funnel description- like he makes a black hole through which the rebound must travel :)

"After the Sixers drafted Turner I went back and watched a few of his games. One thing that jumped out was how he could put up great numbers without looking all that special. But the numbers did not lie (meaning he was not playing poorly or inefficiently, he just rarely took your breath away with wow moments.) The end of the game you looked back an realized he did the right things to lead his team to a win and racked up big numbers. While watching Wall/Cousins they frequently had “wow” moments that suggested they were special players, and honestly I can’t say I was blown away the few games I watched Turner closely.
So jump forward to today… and we see Turner finally starting to rack up good numbers in 2 of the last 3 games: 13pt/12reb, 14pt/6reb/7asst/6stl. And at least last night it was a somewhat invisible 13/12. Which I guess can be viewed as a half full/empty kind of way. If you are in the vocal “anti-Turner (I told you so…) camp” this validates the notion that Turner is nothing special, and that even when he puts up numbers he still is pedestrian.
But I’m still in the more optimistic camp, that looks at Turner as a throw-back type player, before players were judged more by dunks and highlights. The guy can help your team even when he looks quiet and somewhat uncomfortable on the floor. That suggests to my admittedly rosy outlook that when Turner does get his feet under him he has the potential to put up close to his college type numbers (20/9/6 and 1.7 stl) efficiently on the pro level. And if he can do that, I don’t care if it translates into Sports Center grade highlights that take your breath away.
So I guess we will have to wait and see how Turner develops. But to me, putting up big numbers while he still looks a bit lost suggests when he inevitably finds his way we will be rewarded with a winning player that can be part of this teams long term core. And the one thing we can be certain is that Turner will not fail for lack of effort or working on his craft."

tk76 reply to tk76 on Oct 14 at 11:10

Imagine the formatting was still there- because there are supposed to be actual paragraphs...

Really good post (longest paragraph I've ever read).

If you want a feel-good perspective on Turner, look at it this way. He did everything in college. Right now, he's figuring out the NBA game one piece at a time. Maybe he doesn't feel completely comfortable playing the two, or in this offense, but he can fall back on his rebounding, or he can fall back on an isolation on offense that comes within the flow, and he can what's familiar to him.

Slowly but surely, he's going to keep adding pieces, working on what doesn't come as easily at this level, but always building on what he's already figured out.

20/9/6 is a pretty lofty goal, but I won't count it out. Just keep building.

tk76 reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:40

Think 20/6/6 but he gets a 3 rebound bonus for being on the floor without any legit bigs :)

He won't approach those numbers this season.

it took him time to adjust to college as well.

Collins always seems top be talking about the same concerns we debate here. Eitehr here or at realgm we were talking about how the Sixers young players really struggle with any type of set offense and who of Young, Turner and Jrue will improve in this area.

Collins sees this too, and here is his quote from Kate's piece:

"Before the game, Collins said he was stripping the offense away from the starting unit. His exact words: "I’m going to try to let our first unit that’s starting play without a lot of sets, where there’s a play call because I think that’s where a lot of their struggles are coming right now, just trying to get into the play. So maybe just some more random offense, but with some rules. Not just run and chuck, but some rules to help us out."

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/76ers_two_weeks_and_counting.html#ixzz12LXL7MIs

Thaddeus Young basketball IQ is really starting to be a concern for me.

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 11:25

Just starting to now?

I'm not really worried about him. Most likely he settles into being an effective up-tempo option off the bench- and gets paid accordingly.

I'm more worried that he shows "signs of breaking out" and gets overpaid. But if he can't run plays he won't be starting.

Then again I read that Collons won't be running set plays with the starters. Much in the way that Cheeks, DiLeo and eventually Jordan abandoned the notion of a "set offense." No coincidence.

Where do you think the breakdown is among the starters? It can't fully be on Thad, right? I mean, all the other guys are pretty high BB IQ players, right? Maybe Turner didn't have a whole lot of plays in college, but Jrue, Iguodala and Brand all came through solid basketball programs, they should all be able to run an offense.

When it comes to Brand it could be the fact that playing out of position makes him uncomfortable and thus futzes him up on the plays?

tk76 reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:38

I don't know- but its no exactly news that this team can't execute a set offense. It may be more a realization that without post players or shooters that set plays don't work. And that a more breakdown type (Mo Cheeks) style offense will be most productive for them.

Laugh all you want, but they need a guy like Dalembert on the offensive end. Someone who can float to the rim off a pick-and-roll and throw down a lob. No big on this roster has that skill and those are easy points in the half court.

Collins has directly said too many times that Jrue is thinking too much. This is really just another iteration of "our players are thinking too much". I'd say it's all of Jrue, Thad and Turner.

Ages 20, 22 and 22. Really, aside from some superstars like Lebron or Magic, how many players at that age are any good running a set offense. And even those superstars probably were playing more off of isolation and natural talent (like Tyreke last year) then actually thriving within a structured system.

If you have a pure shot or can physically dominate around the basket then you can step in and fit in almost any scheme (think 20 year old Shaq and maybe Cousins this year.) But if you are more of a slashing, all-around type player your only chance at immediate success is to be allowed to dominate the ball from day 1 (again like Lebron and Tyreke and this year Wall were allowed to do.)

Well it bothered me for a bit, last year he made some comment about being hard to run the princeton offense because of the plays, but I wrote that off to Jordan's system and the fact that it was probably poorly taught. But if he's having trouble again, with more simple stuff, and really only excels when 'plays aren't called for him' that's the kind of thing that says 'he's an athelete but he ain't a basketball player' to me

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 11:41


johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 14:40

Don't you feel that EB has been exponentially more of an issue than Thad? You're really down on Thad, I know. But he looks to be doing the things to me that Collins said he would. Trying to eliminate the mistakes from his game. He's looking to set up teammates in good positions now, he's been showing a little bit better stroke from mid range, etc...

Elton still seems to want to "get his" at some points (prime example last night when he could've easily set up ET for a quick score on a cut to the basket, but chose to back down his man for a contested jumper) In all honesty, he isn't even rebounding better than Thad. He's a nightmare in pick and roll D because of his non existent lateral quickness.

I feel that Elton Brands basketball IQ is not in question, I feel his body's ability is in question, and that he does the best he can that his body will allow him. I know many of you feel you have some insight to his 'trying' which I find ridiculous.

Elton Brand has no real future with the sixers, he's not about to try and get a long term deal with the sixers. I have a lot more interest and concern in Thaddeus Young learning how to run plays than a guy who excelled at Duke.

Where did you hear him say this about Thad specifically? He's said it a lot, about a lot of players, and about players in general. I've heard him say a few times that the game is moving too fast for Jrue and he's thinking too much. that doesn't mean that I think Jrue's a dumb player, just like I don't think it means Thad's a dumb player if he says (or someone else says something about him) something similar.

I think Thad's basketball IQ is fine offensively. Defensively is another issue entirely.

I'm not sure how you got that I heard collins say anything specifically about Thaddeus Young and his ability to run plays, but he's one of the starters, and he excelled under two coaches who didn't run plays for him (stated as such) and last year Thaddeus was quoted basically saying that the princeton offense made it hard for him cause he had to remember plays.

It's funny, because I didn't really think they were having problems with running the offense early on in the past two games. It actually looked decent with the starters in there at the beginning of the first quarter, but then they just completely lost the thread and never got it back. Obviously, the team played much, much better later in the game when they scrapped it and just played loose.

Rich reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:30

That is what gets me. They run the offense pretty well at the beginning, making quick reads, getting good shots mostly with the pass. I know they play better late in the game, but the offense has looked really good in the 1st quarter of the past 2 games. Even last night they weren't making shots, but they were getting them wide open. I'd like to see more of this throughout the games because the defenses will be better than the Celts JV and the Raptors.

deepsixersuede reply to Rich on Oct 14 at 11:34

Could it be at the beginning of games teams play regular defense but adjust and start "packing it in" as the game goes on.

That's certainly a possibility.

On a related note, I'm pretty sure Collins told Kapono that when he's in the game, he better be shooting. 10 shots last night, and he's just firing away no matter how little space he has. Completely different from his game last year, when he was loathe to shoot unless he had all the time in the world.

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:47

After the new C.B.A. and if he gets his confidence back under Collins, Kapono may be an option beyond this season. [3 years, 6 million total?]. An off the bench shooter is one position where experience trumps youth and with Jrue, Iggy and Evan he is the perfect compliment.


For him to even want to re-sign here, Collins would probably have to give him a ton of minutes this season. From the team's perspective, he just hurts way more than he helps when he's on the floor. I don't see it happening.

It could be, but I think it's something else. Now, this is from watching 2 games with one of them on a grainy feed online so by no means would I call this definite, but I think it has to do with the practice teams. The first 6 players (Starters plus Lou) run the offense together in practice so they like to run it in games. As soon as the lineups get juggles, there's no real chemistry/trust, so it's just a lot of P and R. As far as packing it in, a lot of the shots the get anyway are jumpers, which aren't great, but at least they are open and off ball movement. That shouldn't affect them too much if they run this offense because they seem willing to shoot jumpers. Again, only off 2 games I saw though.

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:30

Having better shooters may make them all smarter [spacing?] and the offense look efficient.

And if running a play generates a wide open jumper 50% of the time- its only a success if you have guys who can nail down that shot.

As I posted before, there is no NBA offense that generates layups all of the time (especially without legit post options to cut off of.) A good offense typically generates many open jump shots (either midrange 16 footers or open 3's.) And you have to be ready to nail those open shots to be successful. Otherwise the defense won't respect your shot and you'll never get in the lane.

jsmoove reply to tk76 on Oct 14 at 12:53

Could this be a foreshadowing of what may eventually happen to Evan if he doesn't can his jumpers consistently?

If Turner does not develop his jumper then either Iguodala or Turner will be traded.

But I actually think Turner has the makings of a good midrange jumper (better than Iguodla's because Turner's jumper seems smoother) and maybe extend his range later in his career. In the mode of a less pure shooting Rip with a better all around game.

Time to look at the NBA rosters for Bigs who we can get for Thad and/or Speights and/or ?. We need at least one young/tall/athletic 4 or 5 who can protect the basket and rebound.

And they're easily obtainable for one dimensional bench players

sfw reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 11:50

Well let's get a one dimensional defensive Big to replace our one dimensional offensive players. Protecting the rim for 20 minutes a game would be a start.

If you're talking about guys who teams may be willing to trade, there aren't a whole lot.

- Gortat (too much money for a backup)
- DeAndre Jordan (blocked)
- Chris Andersen (if they move Melo. not a great rebounder, though)
- Andris Biedrins (too much money)
- Emeka Okafor (too much money)
- Favors (if we're willing to facilitate a Melo deal with Iguodala, maybe)

That's the list I can come up with, and I can't say any of them are realistic in the least.

sfw reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:55

I was thinking more of a young big who needs an opportunity to play. AT a Thad or Speights level. Give him an opportunity to get 15-20 minutes. Not sure who would fit the bill? Help Suede!

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 11:57

If 28 years old is young enough to be part of this teams future maybe Diop is an option. Jordan and Brown playing poker with Thorn? Nocioni and Brackins?

Or if Thabeet is saveable? As long as the main pieces stay [Jrue, Iggy, Evan, Spieghts,Meeks] would be my keepers.

deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Oct 14 at 12:11

Jordan saves a year on Diop's deal [team option versus player option] plus gets a young talent [Brackins] in the deal. We move a redundant talent [Brackins] and overpay for a 20 a minute a night deterent who allows our coach to pressure the ball. And if Hawes is replaced by a big from this years draft, on a rookie deal, than slightly overpaying for Diop to share the position is less of an issue.

I believe this is doable, but would you guys?

Diop's game has really gone downhill over the past two seasons. He also has two more expensive years on his contract after this one. I don't think I'd do that deal. He's a defensive upgrade over what we have, obviously, but not at that price. You can get guys in the draft to give you what he gives for the cost of a second round pick.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 14:48

They could've gotten a project center like Whiteside in here during the draft if Stefanski had a clue

speekeasy reply to johnrosz on Oct 14 at 16:24

yea whiteside dropped like a stone on draft night. I liked the kid Alabi from FSU too but i'm not sure if he could rebound as well in the NBA. Speaking of young bigs, i didnt see the game, did Ed Davis get in for Toronto (is he hurt)? From watching him in college I always thought he'd be a good rebounder and decent defensive big in the league. not sure of Toronto would give him up because they have mainly soft big men already


Does this suddenly make them contenders? Nope. But it fracks their salary commitment next year even more (don't forget the genius Nocioni deal) depending on the new CBA they have to make more moves related to cost savings to get under the luxury tax.

Adding Diop is pointless. If you want Diop you could have just kept sam

deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 12:22

Nucioni is gone, a positive. Our coach can do what he wants to do, pressure the ball, without fear, another positive. Brian, he hasn't played and probably isn't in top shape. I am just looking at deals that may be possible. John, its not about winning now but giving this team an identity.

Brian, another name for your list. Watched him the other night and he got big and can block shots and hit a jumper. [A. Ajinca]

Haven't seen a whole lot of him. Wonder if Brown's going to use him.

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 12:27

He is on Dallas now, very raw but, man, he is big!!!

speekeasy reply to deepsixersuede on Oct 14 at 16:45

saw Ajinca play a little for France in the world championships. he's raw but i'd take a shot on him

Nocioni is swapped out for Diop (sorry, misunderstood the trade)

Larry Brown wouldn't want Nocioni and I really doubt Jordan is making a move that Brown doesn't approve of.

It doesn't help the sixers long term, it's a short term 'fix' that makes them suck a little bit less, but they still suck

I'd much rather be overpaying for Sam 1 more year then signed up for multiple years of Diop's marginal game.

I'm not sure how willing to trade those players most teams would be. I think the clippers still believe in jordan as a back up at least.

Jordan is the one I'd be most interested in, and you're probably right. LAC doesn't need to move him, we'd have to overpay in some way.

And don't forget, the clippers (fans at least) believe they still have a shot at Carmelo since he's whipped and his wife wans a hollywood career

They need to clear a decent amount of cap space if they think they're going to sign him next summer. Maybe you could facilitate that and grab Jordan in the deal. Gomes, Foye and Jordan for Kapono. Ugh, that would be horrible in terms of talent acquired and the contracts they'd take back.

sfw reply to Brian on Oct 14 at 13:28

I just looked through the rosters. Real shortage in this area. We'll probably have to get by with what we have for this year and hope to find someone in the draft or free agency.

Yeah, probably looking at Fab Melo or Kanter.

It would be great to get an athletic defensive big that fits with the rest of the roster- but we just traded away Sam and those guys are hard to come by.

deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Oct 14 at 13:57

tk, how is your highschool knowledge? Any big defensive types ready to move on into college? My point is if the near future pickings are slim maybe Thorn would be willing to part with a future #1 if he likes a current league big. [Thabeet, Jordan and J.Hill come to mind] I just don!t see him being patient and if he is impatient, but keeps thinking young, I would be o.k. with it.

Any "knowledge" I have is just what is posted on draftexpress (or lesser site like nbadrat.net.) Sorry, unlike Derek or some other posters I don't follow basketball that closely outside the Sixers. I'd like to, but only so much free time.

High school prospects are my achilles heal. the 1 year out of high school rule has made me lazy following that scene.

deepsixersuede reply to Derek Bodner on Oct 14 at 14:57

Are true centers a dieing breed ?

Cousins this year. Oden a few years ago (would be if he were healthy). They're coming back, IMO.

deepsixersuede reply to Derek Bodner on Oct 14 at 15:02

It just seems harder to find one. Indiana hopes it found one in Hibbert. If a team is drafting high it must be real hard to pass on a big, maybe that's why the "stiff" factor is so high.

Its got to be hard to project high school players. They are so physically dominant at that level, that you are reliant on things like AAU or Hoops Summits- which tend to take coaching out of the equation. So you can tell how athletic or gifted a player is- but now how that will translate under structured coaching.

johnrosz on Oct 14 at 14:25

I couldn't quite make it out on my pixelated internet feed, but it looked like ET shook the crap out of someone on an iso situation, make a move to the bucket but just missed the shot. It looked like a wow moment from what I could see.

He had one really nice drive from the top of the key that he finished w/ his left. Also drew the foul. That was the best offensive play for him on the night. Not sure which one you're talking about, but my vision is still a little blurry from that feed, I may have just missed it.

Jack Straw on Oct 14 at 15:48

Hard to believe we actually WON the battle of the boards after watching that game. Of course, all of the credit goes to our guards. Holiday showed why he'll prove to be a major steal in fantasy leagues across the nation and Turner appears to be slowly rounding into form.

Glad to hear Speights injury isn't too serious. Last thing we need is for him to be sidelined and gain back all of that weight. It was a little relieving to see Brackins step up when his name was called... even if he's just another perimeter oriented big man who can't really rebound or defend. That fadeaway off the dribble in traffic at the foul line extended looked like a polished move... and that throw down he had on Derozan was certainly unexpected. There is definitely something about that #33 that removes any fear of firing away.

speekeasy reply to Jack Straw on Oct 14 at 16:59

yea that number definately fits him as a gunning big man

Turner: 4 buckets, 4 TOs & 1 foul-out in 36+ minutes of play. Some shooting guard. Isn't Kareem Rush or Gordan Giricek available?

Raptors' starting guards DeRozan & Jack combined for 40 pts. Barbosa off the bench with 19.

76ers' resident geniuses sure know how to pick players. Is their any time limitation on their foolishness? It seems there's not.

Now Doug is shelving the offense for a time so players are unencumbered by thought processes. Reminiscent of Stefanski in Spring of '07 instructing Mo to unbridle
his "thoroughbred" squad. Progress? What progress? Banking on the same streetball tact - pressure, get it, and go (before they find us). Half-court execution remains 76ers' bugaboo due to a long string of personnel decisions.

"Turner: 4 buckets, 4 TOs & 1 foul-out in 36+ minutes of play. Some shooting guard. Isn't Kareem Rush or Gordan Giricek available?

Raptors' starting guards DeRozan & Jack combined for 40 pts. Barbosa off the bench with 1"

DeRozan scored 16 points on 15 field goals and 11 free throws. He was terribly inefficient. Do you look at anything other than points and field goals made when doing your evaluation ?

Turner does look better these days. I'd be a much bigger fan if he didn't seem to duplicate a lot of what Iguodala does (and a lot of what he doesn't do as well). I mean, if Iguodala was gone, I'd be happy enough with drafting a guy who projects to be an 18, 5, and 5 kind of player, but with him around I was hoping for more of a dominant scorer.

"Inefficient" (or "efficient"), the latest buzzword, signifying less than intended. How 'bout their guard tandem kick our guard tandem's ass?

johnrosz reply to jjg on Oct 14 at 19:59

Efficiency is probably one of the most important things to look at, if not the most important thing to look at when you're talking about the caliber of a shooter. If you disregard it you're just going to come off looking like you're clueless. I'm sure you're a guy enamored with DeMarcus Cousins putting up 18 points (on 17 shots)

And you love a guy like Monta Ellis :)

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 14 at 22:48

I do? News to me...

correction: 36 minutes even. gotta be fair.

The problem with guards crashing/cluster rebounding is that you can't depend on it against strong teams. Lakers, Celtics and the like dissolve it into theory.

"The Lakers, Celtics and the like" are the least of this team's worries.

If they can even show that 2 or 3 positions on the floor are in good shape long term moving forward than this season will be a "success" IMO. We already know with near certainty that C (and PF) are not likely to be one of those positions. So I don't really care if the bigs turn out to be serviceable or flat at lousy- just as long as Thorn knows it needs to be addressed.

At best, guys like Speights, Hawes and Brackins project to be role players. Who knows were the future starters will come from. But this year we hopefully learn how the Jrue/Evans/Iguodala/Tad/Lou dynamic works. Which pieces are part of a future top level PG/SG/SF rotation, and who should be flipped for much needed froncourt answers.

We all must be blind pessimists. Junst came across a recent NBA GM survey (10/6/2010):

Which team will be most improved in 2010-11?
1. Miami 39.3%
2. New York 14.3%
2. Washington 14.3%
4. L.A. Clippers 10.7%
4. New Jersey 10.7%
6. Philadelphia 7.1

speekeasy reply to tk76 on Oct 14 at 17:13

that might be more a reflection of the low amount of respect they had for Eddie Jordan, especially with the personel we had last year for his system. I think John Hollinger actually had us improving a good deal and fighting for a playoff spot too. I don't see it unless ET becomes an impact player relatively quickly

deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Oct 14 at 17:41

I would put Minn. in that group also. They added 4 impact players [Johnson, Beasley,Pekovic,Webster] and seem to be making the extra pass and giving effort defensively this preseason.

And 28 of 30 GMs recommended brushing with Evan Turner too. Polls have fault lines. Especially your 7.1% (of 30) number. One fraction of a whole GM likes Sixers according to your offering. Even if it's a WHOLE GM, does that really boost your spirits regarding Sixers' prospects?

FractionMan reply to jjg on Oct 14 at 17:59

Actually, jjg, it may surprise you to learn that 7.1 percent of 30 is 2.13. Therefore, at least TWO NBA GMs believe that the Sixers will be the most improved team this year.

This message brought to you by Fraction Man: making the Internet safe for extremely basic arithmetic since 1997!

Well since we're arguing the finer points of a meaningless poll (GM's are notoriously wrong on stuff like this), seriously, how do you not pick miami?

2/28 is how you get 7.1%

Good work, FractionMan! I admire precision. After an initial noggin' miscalculation, came up with same 2.13 number using a handy pocket calculator (couldn't find slide ruler). I guess that number translates to 2 well-functioning GMs and Billy King or Ed Stefanski.

7.142857143%, give or take.

deepsixersuede on Oct 14 at 17:48

Tk, you mentioned a while back how players need to be prodded differently, saying how maybe Spieghts responds to a coach being positive, giving him minutes and just letting him play. It seems Beasley is thriving in such a situation. He seems much more like the guy at Kansas St. this year.

Didn't we have a chance to give up Iggy and some scraps in some deal last year and get Beasley somehow?

I forget what we could have gotten him for. But the Wolves basically got him for nothing. I like how we got shitty Meeks for a second rounder and could have picked up the Beas.

I always felt like he just needed a situation change. Wade and Riley were just wearing him down. I guess we are going to see if that was true this year.

The Wolves didn't get Beasley for nothing, they got him for something the sixers didn't have.

And won't for a while

Jrue shaking off the funk, even though it was against the Raptors makes me warm inside.

I have a small feeling that Turner is slowly going to win us over if we be patient with him this year.

By mid season he may be averaging 15pts, 6 boards, 5 assists, and 2 steals.

Since we are stuck with him, I might as well try to look on the bright side. He might just be a late bloomer. And he's having to learn how to be less ball dominant than before.

If he can reach those averages by the end of the season he's officially not a bust. Just a wrong choice depending on what Cousins does and our teams silly big man situation. He'll always be the last move of the Stefanski era. That horrible horrible era.

Let all hope he and Jrue do some serious Gelling and Thorn makes some moves to get us pieces for a nice patient rebuild.

johnrosz reply to Mike P on Oct 14 at 20:02

Whether you want to believe it or not, I think there's really no way to characterize Turner as a "bust" after one year of professional basketball. Regardless of how he plays overall.

Mike P reply to johnrosz on Oct 14 at 20:52

If he shoots 20 percent for a couple months and goes to the d league, I think we can bust him.

johnrosz reply to Mike P on Oct 14 at 21:08

There's been no indication of anything like that happening. He's already projecting to be one of their better players when you factor in the facilitating and rebounding. The negativity surrounding Turner is mind boggling to me. Cousins had 8 pts and 3 rebounds yesterday, does that make him D league bound as well?

Tray reply to johnrosz on Oct 14 at 21:58

No he didn't, he had 14 and 10 in 28 minutes! That's just what he had in the first half.

johnrosz reply to Tray on Oct 14 at 22:10

good call. not sure why that came up.

Mike P reply to johnrosz on Oct 14 at 22:39

Just saying if that happens then you can label him a bust You said there wasn't any way we could. I mean you think Thabeet is a bust right?

Of course Turner has shown he can somewhat play basketball at a professional level. That means he is leagues above Thabeet right now.

johnrosz reply to Mike P on Oct 14 at 22:50

Thabeet isn't technically a bust yet. He was just so raw and needed so much work that he hasn't been able to perform at the nba level yet. A lot of times project centers get drafted way too high.

Mike P reply to johnrosz on Oct 14 at 22:57

Wasting a number 2 pick on someone who couldn't even contribute at the pro level their first year is the definition of a bust.

Especially when you have Marc Gasol. And double especially when you pass on Curry/Tyreke.

johnrosz reply to Mike P on Oct 14 at 23:19

All I'm saying is the sample size is too small to call him a bust yet. For all we know he can put it all together and be what they'd hoped for. I agree he probably will be a bust (especially when you compare him to Curry/Evans) but it's too soon to tell.

I am very worried about the team making a trade early in the season if things start off badly. I hope Thorn has the patience to build the team properly, but I don't know if Collins is going to be pushing him to acquire a player who can help in the frontcourt immediately. And it could very well be a player with a burdensome contract. We already know Collins feels the same way about veteran toughness that Stefanski feels about all you can eat ribs at Chili's. So I'm afraid of a possible press confrence to introduce Emeka Okafor and his neverending contract, or something almost as distasteful. We've got to have Thorn tell Collins look just do the best you can, and I'll work to find a good young player with some promise who will compliment the roster going forward. But I don't feel confident this will happen, rather that Collins wants like anything to do one of his patented first year turn arounds. And he can't do it with the current group of players on this team, so look out. I hope I'm wrong about this.

deepsixersuede reply to Chunky Soup on Oct 14 at 20:40

Hypothetical situation; They make the following trade: Thad, Hawes,Kapono and top #15 protected #1 for Okafor, you wouldn't be okay with that? If Jrue, Iggy and Turner are gonna be what must of us hope for than how is that a bad move. I think an Okafor, Speights, Iggy, Turner and Jrue core going forward [nobody older than 28] would put the team in a good position in the next 5 years to compete.

I'd be mad, Thad+expirings should be more than enough for Okafor, no need for draft picks to be involved. I would be against it as it would cause us to have a worse draft pick for the next 3 years. Doing the trade would put all our eggs in the Jrue and ET basket and i'm not sure that's something we should be looking to do at this point. Taking on a contract like that is something a team that is already good and on verge of being a one of the contenders for the NBA championship and is already going to have a meaningless draft pick as well as being over the Salary cap.

It's really nothing against Okafor as a player, he's a decent center and would make us better. It's the type of contract as well as the philosophy behind it that makes me nervous. If that trade went down I believe the Sixers would be in the worst financial situation in the league going into next year, and all that with a new CBA coming. It would bother me very much to have a $30 million frontcourt of Brand and Okafor. And yet I could see this happening if the goal is to make it back into the playoff picture as soon as possible. Some people would like that, I have no problems with them just wanting to win. But if they are going to make a trade, I would rather see the front office target another young prospect to build around Jrue and Turner as they continue to develop. And don't hamstring themselves with another cap killing contract.

deepsixersuede reply to Chunky Soup on Oct 14 at 22:37

I don't disagree but feel that getting a piece that is as good as Okafor or better than Jrue, Evan and Iggy may not be doable in the near future without getting real lucky or paying a luxury tax or whatever
'field leveler" the new C.B.A. provides.

I hope our perimeter trio becomes good enough that putting solid role players around it is all that is needed.

I share your concerns about the contract. I don't think this team is ready to make more long term, financial commitments to non-stars. Okafor has 4 years left on his deal (1 more than Brand. That commits the team over the next 3 seasons to about 40-45M if cap space on Brand, Iguodala and Okafor. Under the new CBA that might be your entire cap.

No way you become a winner carrying around that much salary for 3 players of that level. Its hard enough trying to overcome Brands salary alone.

In fact Okafor's contract (talent/dollar) and his bad rap as a player who has failed to work on his game and has fought injuries makes him nearly a negative contract player. He would be your man if you were only one big away- but the Sixers are far from that.

In fact I'd rather look to jetison Brand and Iguodala and start from scratch with young/cheap talent then talke on another 12-15M 4 year deal.

I can't tell if it's because ET's been quiet in some of the games, but the idea of Turner/Jrue gelling seems a little more realistic to me after watching them play together. I would love to have two guys who are fringe all-stars at those positions and that is what are getting if they develop properly.

I've been really negative about this team, but think about this: What other team has the ability to have 2 young guys like that in the backcourt? I don't really see anyone with two guys like this. It may take awhile (like 3 or 4 years), but as the great guards get older, and the young guns are by themselves as far as talent goes in the backcourt, the Sixers are going to be in a good spot. The thing that kills me is that Iguodala's prime is going to be wasted playing on bad teams. We should have traded him for Favors.

I think you want to see how good Jrue and Turner are before you start building around them and Iguodala, rather than doing the reverse, losing Iguodala and rebuilding around Jrue and Turner.

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