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Nine Days To Go

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smh1980 on Oct 18 at 1:10
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This is the exact opposite of what we had last year with Eddie Jordan. He had a system that he didn't mold to this team. We all know how that ended.

Collins has been probably staying up really late at night trying to figure this team out. I'm encouraged that he has been open to the media and he has been critical of the team in a way that is not throwing guys under the bus.

I voted for 36-40 wins because I don't think that this team is done making moves, imo. I think Rod Thorn is working the phones right now and a large trade will take place before x-mas.

I blame Stefanski for the current situation the Sixers are in. We can't pin the Dalembert trade on Collins since he had just arrived. If Collins had been here for a year already I think that we would have picked Favors at # 2 or made a trade with either New Jersey or Minny to drop down and pick a big with the number 3 or 4 pick.

So I think that Collins will figure out an offense for the team that will be competitive each night. I see him playing the guys that are going to hustle and do the little things that will turn in some W's against teams that we should lose to.

36-40 if we can get some type of rhythm

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Joe reply to josh7six on Oct 18 at 7:26
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36-46 you mean?

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Joe reply to Joe on Oct 18 at 7:30
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Well, I should have read the post a little more clearly. Ignore me.

I chose

I know I was

I was holding onto hope that Eddie Jordan was really hoping Thad and Brand would start rebounding a little. That hope is almost all gone. This personnel is very bad.

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Joe reply to Joe on Oct 18 at 7:32
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Tough morning. The less than symbol kills the rest of the line because of html stuff.

I chose less than 26.

I know I was less than 26 or 26-30 last time.

I'll stick with 41-45 because of 2 simple reasons:

1) It's the same old story for the Sixers, bad early on, much better after the allstar break. This has happened each season in the Igoudala era and i think it will happen again, especially considering how many new faces are there in the team (players, coaches, FO).

2) Thorn will probably pull a major trade before the trade deadline that will balance the roster out a bit.

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Jess Sayan reply to Xsago on Oct 18 at 9:29
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Ditto. There is a true evaluation of the roster right now. Collins spoke recently about making sure Ed and Rod see what he's seeing out of the roster. To me, this suggest an eminent trade. That's consistent with the constant lineup changes in practice, as well.

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eddies' heady's reply to Xsago on Oct 18 at 9:36
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That didn't happen each season in the Iguodala era. Those 41 and 40 win seasons and the after all-star break runs happened in the Andre Miller era. The most wins Iguodala has led us to without a Batman is 27, last year.

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deepsixersuede on Oct 18 at 7:58
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I went from 41 to 45 wins to 31 to 35 wins because I think Collins, and now Thorn, have changed their opinion of the talent here and may blow it up. Brand is not what Collins hoped he would be and on and on.

I am not upset by this if a defined plan is put in place. Move anybody but our young backcourt, get a young defensive big first because the rest will be easier.

I am all for blowing it up.

If Collins and Thorn have evaluated the roster, seen it is awful, and decided to start all over to build a whole new team, lets do it.

I mean even the damn T-Wolves were like "We have a plan, this is going to take time"

We have no young international players. Even the Wizards have someone stashed away now.

A whole culture change needs to happen. Brand needs to go, Iggy (for the right pieces, and just for him to not have his prime wasted) can be moved, but don't trade away Jrue yet. Let's at least find out if he and Turner can work together.

Give them as many minutes as possible. Why throw away an opportunity to be much better in the long run to win 40 games now, miss out on a top pick, and get crushed in the playoffs.

As currently constructed the team can't win over 30 games. It is a very bad basketball team. While the idea of moving Sammie was a positive, moving him for completely NOTHING is a total negative.

I am interested to see some trades happen. The roster turnover needs to be huge.

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eddies' heady's reply to Mike P on Oct 18 at 11:00
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Well said.

A question for everyone...

Does anyone have a problem with the constant changes that Collins has been making to the lineup?

Me personally, I have no problem with it. Say all you want about playing the young guys just to get game experience but I think as a Coach, you lose the team when you are playing people just for that.

Collins is going to milk every last win out of this team (and that is his job to do so). Now whether that is 30 wins or 40 wins remains to be seen. I can remember reading this blog last year when Kapono started hitting 3's again (which felt like late May) that the team started having success because the spacing was better. I imagine 50/60% of people would rather Turner start and get the time with Jrue than win ball games but if we are putting the best TEAM on the floor then I am for it. Collins has been a breath of fresh air and I have seen this team has had his back, unlike the Eddie Brace Face Era.

Follow up to that. Would you be pissed if Evan Turner got 15 minutes per game through January??

I'll have an answer to your first question in a post later this afternoon. To the second question, yes, I'd be pissed. I want him on the floor, and the team is better with him on the floor, even if he isn't scoring 20/game.

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smh1980 reply to Brian on Oct 18 at 10:31
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Brian,

I do want Turner to play more than 15 minutes, just want to put that out there. Given this teams makeup I can't think he'll get more than say 25 (Jrue will play 36+ min at the point and we have a team full of wings). I feel this way because he can't shoot... yet. Spacing has not been good with those guys on the court together (so far).

Turner has been a good rebounder and facilitator but not good in other areas. He still needs more improvement but he is not our biggest concern (that means you big men)!!

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Oct 18 at 10:54
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Not sure how you can surmise that they will be better with him on the floor when Collins laid out a logical explanation for having a shooter on the floor. He basically admitted they are going to be giving them up in bunches on the defensive end, therefore more of a need to score and for spacing.

I would think that you are not assuming that with Evan out there he will stop dribble penetration from breaking down our defense with no rim protectors? Because if the logic is that he will be a plus rebounder, well, if that's the case, then that's just sad. To have to keep a shooting guard on the floor for boards is just downright counter-productive to establishing a 'team' on the floor.

Coach Collins has said an awful lot of things so far in the past couple months, and then done a 180 or flip flopped just as easily.

It's not just rebounding, but if you're saying being able to grab defensive boards is downright counter-productive to establishing a 'team' on the floor, you're way off base.

Kapono's a better shooter, Turner is better in every other facet of the game.

I'm also not a really big fan of the "we're going to give up a ton of points, so let's just punt defense and try to score more" philosophy.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Oct 18 at 11:08
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I'm not saying being able to grab D-boards, I'm saying just keeping a guy on the floor from that particular position is counter-productive, if that's the main reason he's out there. You need tons of other things from that position, with rebounding being one of the least.

I don't think he was saying 'let's punt defense', I think he was just admitting that he has no interior defense and buckets will be given up frequently (and fouls), so that increases the need for some shooters on the other end to prevent long droughts. Because as tk has said, you're not going to get layups all game and you're not going to get in the paint that often, so the looks that are most presentable come in the 16-23 foot range and someone has to knock them down with regularity.

Keeping any one dimensional player on the floor seems like a bad idea, be it a guy who can only rebound or a guy like Kapono.

This season isn't about wins and losses, and shouldn't be, more than developing the youth and seeing what they have, as I see it, and it's a fundamental flaw in how the sixers run their franchise and build their roster.

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Jess Sayan reply to smh1980 on Oct 18 at 10:37
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1.) I had a feeling coming in that Meeks or Kapono had a chance to start. Thought their ability to stretch the floor would help everyone else in the line-up. Down the stretch last year it seemed that kapono's insertion into the start line did just that.

2.) I have know problem with ET getting 15 mpg til 1/11 as long as we look good in the meantime. I like the idea because we have to be concerned about Jrues development as much as Turner's. If proper spacing can be created with a shooter in the line up, I think it helps develop good habits and experience for the young pg. He would have experience of knowing how players should be organized on the floor.

If ET remains our best rebounder this may not be able to happen.

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eddies' heady's on Oct 18 at 10:44
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Isn't it a sad state of affairs when your head coach comes out publicly and says that your hopeful shooter and #2 draft pick can't shoot it good enough to start over Kapono or Meeks, but that hopeful shooter and #2 draft pick is then labeled as your best rebounder, not any of your bigs or taller wings?

That's pretty effed up when you think about it.

That's what happens when you trade away our only rebounder/interior defender for scraps and have no plan to replace him. An already unbalanced roster gets turned on its head.

Saying Kapono is a better shooter than Turner isn't really a knock on Turner, though. Kapono's a better shooter than just about everyone in the league.

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smh1980 reply to Brian on Oct 18 at 10:57
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I guess that is why we all thought that Favors had to be the pick at that point. We are probably the most lopsided team in the league when it comes to ratio of smalls/bigs.

Haha I saw that Jason Smith had like 14 points in 23 minutes and 6 boards on Friday. This game is so funny that way. I don't think he ever scored 15 for us or grabbed a board every 4 minutes.

Did Jason Smith every play 23 minutes in a game for the sixers?

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Oct 18 at 10:58
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That's what makes me stew even more about the draft pick. They had to know they were going to eventually find a taker for Sam, so why draft another wing with that high of a draft pick? It was a no brainer to go big with that pick. Even though I liked Johnson as a good fit between Jrue and Igoudala, I actually wanted Favors on lottery night when it was announced that we lucked into the 2nd pick.

They took the best player they thought was available at the time. You don't parse positions that high in the draft unless you feel they are both equally qualified.

The sixers are so far from being good, drafting Favors wouldn't have made a difference this year anyway.

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eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 11:14
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Who's to say they aren't equally qualified? To say the Sixers management 'thought' someone was the best player available isn't really saying much, considering the track record.

So you think the draft track record of Tony DiLeo doesn't give him the benefit of the doubt?

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Mike P reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 11:23
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Considering how shitty the team is, can we stop touting the draft record of the amazing Tony DiLeo already?

Why? Is Tony DiLeo responsible for bad coaching hires, asinine trades, not getting anything for Andre Miller and then letting him walk because of the salary cap?

Jrue Holiday
Andre Iguodala
Evan Turner


Those are the three most talented sixers - how were they obtained?

The bench sucks - but of the suck bench - who has the most talent?

Thaddeus Young
Speights

How were they obtained?

Did Tony DiLeo's drafting say 'sign elton brand for 80 million dollars'?

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Mike P reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 11:39
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Jrue has potential, and we all love him, but he isn't proven yet.

Turner is a rookie who is making us all pine for a second chance at that second pick.

Neither of them are slam dunks right now.

Then we have Iggy who is Iggy, and is one of the best players at his position in the league.

Everyone else is either a one dimensional player, a project, or both. There is also tons of low BB IQ on our team.

It's not like we are the Spurs here.

Plus we keep 100 feet away from anyone internationally. I'm not even sure we scout the international guys. That is retarded.

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Mike P reply to Mike P on Oct 18 at 11:41
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Granted, not really having a plan or any concrete idea in management doesn't make his job in anyway easy.

But he is not the drafter people want to make him out to be. Are we really going to tout Lou Williams as a great draft choice? The same with Thaddeus Young? Especially when we already had Iggy then? "Hey lets take a project SF when our best player is a SF"

Well hindsight is a nice 20-20 - but if you're bitching about Lou Williams as a second round draft pick - and saying he was a bad pick - that's foolish. Look at the success rate of players where he was picked. He's a very solid sixth man.

Who do you suppose would have been a better pick where he was picked than Thaddeus Young?

I'm not sure what your point is. Tony DiLeo has drafted well, the best players on the sixers are their draft picks.

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Mike P reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 11:54
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Can't you say that about every team?

"The Lakers best player was a draft choice"

"The Jazz' best player was a draft choice"

"The Magic's best player was a draft choice" and so on.

You are right about Lou being a good pick for a 2nd rounder. We got good value there.

But Thaddeus, hindsight wise that draft was a disaster. We had like 4 picks int he first two rounds of the deepest draft in recent memory and whiffed on all of them.

That isn't a good sign of drafting skills.

Taking Jrue and Iggy were his best moves. Jrue is still iffy because it's all potential right now. Nothing completely concrete although the signs are pointing to positive.

That 2007 draft botching just leaves a sour taste in my evaluation of his drafting acumen.

We had no shooting and passed on Aaron Brooks and Rudy Fernandez. Ugh, there is no reason to debate on it because it's all in the past. That was also the "Lets not tank, we can do it!" season.

I suppose you could

but of course you ignore that many of the quality players on those teams also WERENT draft picks of those teams

Artest
Odom
Gasol
Okur

The Heat and Celtics best players weren't drafted by those teams either.

The sixers do one thing well and everything else poorly, if you can't see the difference between the fact that quality teams do more than JUST get good players from the drafts, I'm terribly sorry, but blaming dileo for this problem is like blaming the band for the titanic sinking.

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Mike P reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 12:04
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What about the Thunder?

All of those players were pretty much drafted and their team is prettay prettay good. Spurs too.

For every team that builds with vets in FA. There is one that picks really well and builds that way.

I'm just saying, if we are going to run about saying how great a drafter Tony DiLeo is, we should pump the breaks a bit and take a look at the team we currently have. The one on the site called "Depressed Fan"

He does a descent job, but here he is made out to be some supreme gem miner. If he was maybe we'd be a little more happy.

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Jess Sayan on Oct 18 at 10:56
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I think in these last two games of the PS Collins should insist and demand that Turner put atleast 15 shots. The fear of making mistakes needs to be broken. And he's going to be our two-guard he needs to get more offensive-minded.

I totally disagree, giving Turner a 'shot count' is silly and will more likely than not cause more bad shots to be taken.

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Jess Sayan reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 11:20
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It might, but it's preseason. At #2 playing the 2, scoring is a requirement. He'll have to go through the growing pains. If not in the final preseason games, when? He's supposed to carry our team in scoring based on when he was picked and the position he plays. Tell the kid to put it up so he can learn how to score in the league.

He's supposed to lead the team in scoring because you say so?

The sixers aren't going to be good, the pre-season isn't real competition, and Turner won't learn squat until he's in real games, but giving him a 'shot count' is just a ridiculous way to work the kid. If you want to tell him to not pass on his shot more often, that's fine, but giving him a finite number of shots that he must take each game is a foolish move, so I expect Collins will do it anyway

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Jess Sayan reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 11:47
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Yeah, because I said. That was clearly my reasoning in previous posts. Don't even know why you had to ask. Obvously, it's not because we haven't had a go to scorer in three season or so. It not that people expect shooting guards picked with #2 overall to have prolific offense either.

Hey for the past few seasons, Andre Iguodala was supposed to be the leading scorer, because of his salary.

The expectation from Turner to come in day one and lead the team in scoring while having to radically change the game he played in college for the last 3 years is ludicrous.

The worst possible thing is unrealistic expectations, and you have them for Evan Turner already. The sixers are forcing him to change the game he's played for a long while and you expect it to happen over night.

Good luck with that

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Jess Sayan reply to GoSixers on Oct 18 at 12:10
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That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that his mindset has to change. I don't expect him to lead the team in scoring this season. In the long term he's going to have to take on more of a scorers mentality. This has nothing to do with iggy. He wasn't the go to man in college. So I would expect that from him. However if there is the slightest chance of the HIT trio moving forward together Turner will need to have a scorers mentality.

Don't you get tired of jumping to conclusions?

You mean like you're doing? LIke you know Evan Turners mindset? Like you know what's going on already?

Jesus Christ you're thick. You're sitting here presuming you know about Evan Turner without him yet playing one real meaningful game in the NBA. It's almost as foolish as people freaking out over summer league.

He was a ball dominant player in college and now is being asked not to be. He's not just coming in and playing the same game he did in college like a John Wall, he's being asked to completely change his game, and asking him to figure that out in two weeks is beyond ridiculous.

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Tom Moore on Oct 18 at 11:46
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At the Wells Fargo Center waiting for practice to end. Was supposed to be a short workout, but plans apparently have changed.


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