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The Prologue Ends

I am extremely excited about the positives:
- to see how much Doug Collins can improve the young players
- to see Jrue's development
- to see Turner eventually silence the doubters

Hopefully there will be more good things as the season goes by. I know the team is gonna suck for the most part and get about 30 wins, but its still my team, as bad as it is right now.

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deepsixersuede on Oct 26 at 7:21
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My main good feeling about this team going in was that Collins WOULD reach and improve our young guys and help them forget last year. But if Hawes, Spieghts and Thad don't show something in the first half than move them all for a young piece that can be part of this teams future.

As far as Kapono starting, if Turner is as competitive as we are lead to believe he will want to be part of the starting lineup to hear his name called to open a game. My one fear is he clicks so well with L.Will., and the 2nd team performs so well that Collins puts wins this year, and a balanced team, over Evan and Jrue developing together.

I think the biggest concern with this team lies on the defensive end. It's sad to day but this team is going to live or die with Spencer Hawes. What the Sixers gain in perimeter defense may not be enough to balance out what they lost in interior defense and rebounding with Sammy D manning the middle. Is Collins can find a "solid" duo at the C and PF positions it would push this tram over 40 wins.

I've watched the Summer League games and the two pre-season hames enough to see that the skills that made Evan Turner the #2 pick are still there (you just hotta look real hard). It's just the look on Turner's face tells the whole story. He's a dear in the headlights right now. Obviously trying to learn this offense has Turner thinking more that reacting. Once he gets the feel of the game he'll be fine. I give him 25-30 games to adjust.

I'm still sticking with my 40 wins.

I'm looking forward to watching some Sixers basketball. My low/reasonable expectations has me prepared for whatever comes. And in terms of the future, its hard to know how many of these current Sixers will be around when the team is finally good again.

Its a stars league, and I hope that Jrue and Turner can develop into legit stars. IMO, most likely each of them end up sort of in the Iguodala range- meaning a 2nd level star who can be part of a winner, but not the lead engine of one. That would be fine, but it means the team still has to hope it can land a 1st line star sometime in the next few years- because I'm not at all a believer in the "Pistons" model..

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 9:38
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Collins on the Heat's Big 3: "Guarding LeBron, Wade and Bosh will be a formidable task, to say the least. The one thing about those three guys is they have great chemistry because they played together in the Olympics. It’s not like you’re throwing three super-duper basketball players together for the first time. They’re all smart players. They’re winning players. The time it would take for them to jell would be much less. … They’ve all got every individual award there is. They won gold medals in the Olympics. Their eyes now are on being NBA champions."

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 9:41
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Link to video of Aaron McKie talking about Doug Collins and coaching such a young team:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/news_details/article/2512/2010/october/26/collins-heat-trio-are-formidable.html

The biggest concern for me far and away is the ability for Jrue, Evan and Iguodala to compliment each other well enough to stay on the floor together. I don't see it. Either one of the two wings is going to have to either become a much improved 3 point shooter, enhance their game enough to command double teams, or the team needs to miraculously find a big that can do both, which is even less likely.

I'd personally like to see what a lineup of Jrue, Evan, Thad, Big, Big is capable of to see what we would be in for in the event Iguodala is moved sometime this year.

I think you raise a fair point about J/T/I for this season. But I think there is a good likelihood that by next year Jrue and Turner will progress individually to where they can thrive together. Each has the potential to really up their offensive game.

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Ryan F reply to tk76 on Oct 26 at 13:57
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My other concern is that Evan won't progress much this season because he's going to be a Turiaf style towel waiver for 30 minutes a game. The coaching staff is going for wins plain and simple. Right now, I don't see that as a possibility with Jrue, Evan, Andre playing heavy minutes together. Too many play makers, not enough finishers, not enough balance.

Brian- any thoughts about another Depressed Fan field trip for this year? Watching this years Clippers would be infinitely more fun than watching last years Clippers.

A field trip (or two) is in the works. I actually posted some possible dates on DF's Facebook page.

I expect 22-29 wins this year. I'll go with 24.

Here is what comes to mind for me
- Putting Kapono in the starting lineup is bad coaching
- Turner not receiving large minutes is bad coaching
- Battie playing is bad coaching
- I don't know if I even want Thad to improve
- Jrue needs to do much more than people think to be a great player.
- I am excited to watch Turner play
- Lou is our second best player right now
- Speights has it in him somewhere

OK, Doug's had his little fun with Kapono. Now he puts him near the end of the bench to see if he can fill that expiring contract role. I think he'll be good at it. Now with Turner, he can't afraid to make mistakes. The kid's got talent, and he said it himself, he's gonna end up dominating. I'm not gonna call him a liar. So hopefully he likes the bright lights, cause it's showtime, chief!

What to say about Speights. Seems like he's already in the dog house. In the span of a week or so he went from rave reviews about his time in the mile to another coach saying he's out of shape and can only play limited minutes. Then the leg injury.

This is pretty disappointing. Our most promising big man, already a non-factor? Like Joe, I still believe Speights can figure things out. My biggest hope was that Collins would be able bring out the best in him.

Honestly, I'm not too worried about JIT. The cream always rises to the top, and I believe these three + Lou Will are our best players.

Sad to not see Elton Brand on the key priorities list - 12/8 out of him would be gravy at this point.

Even when he isn't scoring, hell, even when he isn't shooting, he's still helping the team. He's grabbing rebounds, he's initiating the break. He's playing defense, he's handing out assists

That sounds familiar

Andre Evan Iguo-Turner-Dala

Yep. Like I said before, at a minimum he's going to be the kind of player I like and the kind Philly fans hate.

I don't hate that kind of player, but the argument from before he was drafted is that he's a redundant Iguodala type player, and do you really need two guys, even at a close to all star level on your team if you have no 'scorers'?

Just means Iguodala being traded is more likely :)

Having two guys who contribute in all areas and score 15-19 points efficiently? Yeah, that's not a problem. Hell, having three isn't really an issue either.

I agree. The problem is not having too many redundant quality parts. The problem is having too many redundant lousy parts (the bigs) and lacking a real superstar.

The only way jettisoning good players conceivably helps is through lottery balls. But that is a dangerous approach, and only make sense if your good players are older vets.

As for Iguodala- if a trade gets you an equally promising big then I'm all for it. But there is no reason to trade away a very good 26 year old player unless you get something valuable in return.

But Dude, the nuggets want him so the sixers could get Melo and he's super awesome so much better

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Jesse reply to Brian on Oct 27 at 2:04
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Yeah don't agree at all. 1. Turner getting 15-19 is a stretch, and 2. When you have a lineup of Iguodala (great complimentary player), Evan Turner, Jrue (love the guy but not exactly a prolific scorer), and I don't know, Brand and Hawes? Who exactly is going to put the ball in the basket? I know you love guys that do a little of everything, and for good reason, but that's only if you have someone to score the ball. Scoring seems to be a dirty word sometimes on this blog and it shouldn't be.

You're kind of putting words in my mouth here. I said having two or three guys who play an all around game and score in the teens is a good thing. I never said it's all you need to be a contender. You do need the guy who can consistently get you 20+, probably, but having two or three Swiss army knives allows you to sacrifice some things for scoring from one of your other positions.

If Turner never scores 20+ per game, he's not necessarily a failure or a bust, though I'm sure that's how he'll be seen by most Sixers fans.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Oct 27 at 8:23
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multiple swiss army knives = continued patterns of mediocrity

really hard to build a successful team that way

Again, point missed. It's good to have the swiss army knife players. You still need a superstar though. These statements are not mutually exclusive.

Its like saying a great O-Line if FB is needed. But obviously a great O-Line doesn't count for much without a quality RB and QB.

Right now the goal needs to be:

1. Identify which quality players to keep who can help you win when you are a contender.

2. Find a way to acquire a superstar.

Without quality complementary players the superstar will be limited (see Kobe 4 years ago.) And without the superstar, you will not contend.

Turner, Iguodala and Jrue can be part of the answer without being the answer.

Great article. I do think, though, that how Brand plays is going to determine whether this is a 38 game team or a 28 game team. Our biggest hole is in the front court, particularly in interior defense and rebounding. And Brand is still our most solid frontcourt player. But which Brand are we going to get? If Brand is the guy we saw last year when he was mad at Eddie Jordan, then that area is still a weakness but not as terrible as it could be. If he's the guy we saw in preseason grabbing 0 rebounds, then the frontcourt is an absolute disaster. What Brand can bring at this point will determine a lot, as far as I can see.

My prediction is 30 wins, a very rough November, December, and January, but then easing out to almost .500 ball as the season winds down.

The lack of rebounding or interior defense can not be blamed or dependend on for brands play, it's not his position. The players who need to step up are hawes and speights (and I doubt that Elton Brand's play is a 10 game swing)

Well, if he returns to his prime it's a 10-game swing, probably, but that's highly unlikely.

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raro reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 12:56
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If Brand isn't responsible for rebounding or interior defense, then what exactly are his responsibilities? Hitting 16 footers?

Putting all that on his shoulders (when he hasn't been great at it in his entire career) ignores the fact that the CENTER position of useless scrubs is the problem more so in interior defense and rebounding than Brand, and if Sam were still on the roster, it wouldn't be as big an issue.

Sam's replacements are the reason Brand would have to step up, that's not on Brand, that's on Hawes, Speights, etc...and Stefanski for being an idiot

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raro reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 13:29
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It's not that I'm expecting Dwight Howard like numbers from Brand, and I understand that he is playing out of position.

But 7th worst DREB% on the team?

http://www.libertyballers.com/2010/10/21/1766190/sixers-pre-season-a-few-advanced-stats

I think it's ok to be a little disappointed at this point.

I agree that it's not completely on Brand to provide rebounding/interior defense, but he's been a big part of the problem rather than simply pulling his own weight.

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FKD215 reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 14:03
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OK, maybe a 10 game swing is a bit too much, but I do think his level of play will be a big determinant of our overall record, given that he's our best front court guy.

Also, he used to average 10 boards a game, so I don't think it's unrealistic to expect him to do some rebounding. I'm not a Brand-basher -- I still have a little hope that, in what should be a better system than last year, he can be a 14 pt, 8 board guy.

And agreed that our centers are underwhelming to say the least, and need to step up.

Last year was a career low in rebounding for Brand, I expect it to rebound this year with a coach who cares more about rebounding but he's never been a stellar defensive rebounder (I'm ignoring your 10 RPG comment and focusing on other metrics)

I'd just like him to play well enough to convince billy king he's useful

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Sixers4ever on Oct 26 at 14:22
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New here to depressedfan. I've been following for about two years. I love this team no matter how bad they are.

Welcome! Don't get too depressed!

The starting line-up has been announced. No surprises.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sixerville/Sixers_starters_set_for_opener.html

So against the Heat, here are your match-ups:

Jrue - Dwade
Igudoala - Lebron
Kapono - Chalmers
Bosh - Brand
Hawes - J.Anthony

I just hope Kapono never switches :(

I just read last night that Arroyo was starting at PG.

You are probably right then. I was going by the yahoo sportys depth chart- which is probably wrong.

Excellent, so we have Jason Kapono pressuring the ball and making it hard for Miami to get into their sets.

Yeah, looking at Miami's roster, there are better line-up to throw out there (and get pummeled.)

Nice quotes from Turner in Kate F's recent column -

"I understand how I am," Turner said. "I understand that I'm still trying to find my way. If people are worried, they're worried. I'm not really worried, because I know what's in me. I never really express worry openly, because I know what's in me. I know I start off slow, and I end up dominating."

How long does Turner anticipate this development taking? A season . . . two seasons . . . three?

"You have to think about it: In the NBA, you play three college seasons in one season," Turner said. "I'm sure by the time I get done with my 20th game, I'll be a different player. And by my 40th game, I'll be a different player . . . and then 60th . . . and then 80th. "


http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20101025_Will_Sixers__big_catch_end_up_being_a_keeper_.html#ixzz13UqskdQU

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 16:01
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Collins said, not surprisingly, that he expects to start Holiday, Iguodala, Kapono, Brand and Hawes. Holiday will guard Wade, Iguodala defends James, Kapono on PG Carlos Arroyo and Brand on Bosh.

Collins also said "Jrue, Evan and 'Dre can't play together now."

Collins also said "Jrue, Evan and 'Dre can't play together now."

Did he say why? This is extremely disappointing to me.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Oct 26 at 16:06
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Isn't that kind of an indictment against Iguodala? He's supposed to be this all worldly complimentary player

Or more of an indictment against Turner?

WIthout context it's an indictment of no one except who you want it to be an indictment of. You want it to be of Iguodala, so therefore it is

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Tom Moore reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 16:15
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We took it as more of saying Turner just isn't ready yet.

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 16:31
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You are one of the angriest people I've ever encountered

I'm not angry at all.

You jumped to conclusions based on your hatred of Iguodala. I'm tired of bull shit mostly

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 16:52
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I offered Turner as a guilty party as well.

thanks for the info Tom. I am disappointed to hear that as well. Extremely.

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johnrosz on Oct 26 at 16:03
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I want a competitive half of basketball. I wonder if they even sell out

The sell out would be based on interest in the Heat, not the Sixers.

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 16:04
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Talked to Duke assistant Chris Collins (Doug's son) Tuesday morning.

Chris on the Sixers' 2010-11 season: "There’s no question (it’s a rebuilding year). He didn’t have any experience with any players on the roster, other than watching some games. This whole year will really be discovery year. He’s learning what has to work with and what adjustments need to made to make this team better."

I must be the only fan of having Kapono start for this team (in terms of pumping out wins THIS season). I don't think it was a coincidence that when he was inserted into the lineup, both Jrue and Iguodala played better. He is not going to only make this team better with his shooting, he's going to make Iggy and Jrue get to the basket much easier. Also, and this could be a smokescreen, he looked much more comfortable firing up quick shots this post season. Reminded me more of Korver than he did at any point last year.

Did you like when Kyle Korver started? Kapono is just a worse korver

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MikeW reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 16:11
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I loved when Korver started. The year he started was the last year this team had a winning season. Jimmy O'Brien style.

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 16:17
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Link to videos of Thad Young and Iguodala Tuesday:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/opinions/blogs/intell_blogs/tom_moore.html

Your new Sixers sideline reporter, Meredith Marakovits.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Oct 26 at 16:30
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yuck. Bring Jamie Maggio and her big ol booty back

not sure she's much of an upgrade over Jamie Maggio

(I'm happy I could make this pure guido comment...)

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Rob_STC reply to Brian on Oct 26 at 19:42
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OMG The tall chick who used to do Lehigh Valley Baseball and did the Yankees this year ? I liked Jamie Maggio , easy on the eyes. Meredith I think drinks Red Bull. A little too pumped up for me.

aw lame, i am kinda more depressed about no more Maggio than about the Dalembert trade! Good thing she has a fan club though:

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/group.php?gid=238018591170

Brian, will we be making predictions on the opener here or in a new thread?

Check back later or in the morning. I'll have a preview.

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 17:18
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Iguodala on being a defensive specialist on the USA team that won the world championships: "I didn't go up against any LeBrons over the summer (smiles). He's a different caliber type of player and he has guys on the same level as him that can make plays for him."

I got tickets for the opener and a few other games for y birthday. Pretty excited to watch them get their ass kicked in person for the first time in a while.

Anybody else heading up?

I am extremely confused on the above overall. This team is far from a finished product (even our coach acknowledges) and this year is a "learning" year. Different rotations, in and out, probably minor trades and even a major one, and so on. I really don't see why ya'll are upset about JK starting or Turner not playing yet.

When Doug was hired, most of you did not want him and now he has given us some confidence. Let's sit back, "enjoy" watching Jrue, Turner and ??? grow as players and talk xo's after the game. But, please stop roasting coach on his rotations and not playing ET for atleast the first couple months. This is all new to him and 1/2 the players are all new to us.

And, I believe someone new on this team will pleasantly surprise us by mid season. And, while I do not really enjoy alot of his comments, Go Sixers, Go!

Because Kapono has zero part of the sixers after this season, his playing taking away time from Evan Turner is a bad indicator

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 19:12
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My guess is the worse the Sixers do, the more likely Kapono's role increases sooner.

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Tom Moore on Oct 26 at 19:17
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Collins on Turner so far: "Evan’s had his moments. With him, it’s about who he’s on the floor with that gives him a chance to be successful. I just didn’t feel that he and Dre and Jrue were a great mix. It had nothing to do with Evan. There was just poor spacing on the floor and the ball wasn’t friendly. We went through a lot of lulls with that group. I started tinkering with it. Evan’s fine with it. He’s growing up. Evan is much, much better today than he was months ago."

I just didn’t feel that he and Dre and Jrue were a great mix. It had nothing to do with Evan. There was just poor spacing on the floor and the ball wasn’t friendl

Ok, then who was it Doug. It didn't work, WHY didn't it work?

He must be basing this on practice more than the preseason games. The only game I saw where the three of them played together for an extended period of time was against Toronto, and they scored like 118 points in that game.

Anyone watching this Miami/BOS game? Garnett looks like Brand on the inside, no lift at all. LBJ just came up a little limp after getting a charity call.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Oct 26 at 20:43
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Garnet looks better than Brand by a wide margin. He still looks athletic, if not as explosive as he once was. Brand looks like he is lumbering in Mark Jackson fashion.

Missed dunk and then no lift to finish when he was ahead on the break. He's a skinny EB at this point.

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Jason reply to Brian on Oct 26 at 20:48
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I'm watching, only thoughts I have is that Bosh is not a good fit for Miami, he looks like a role player on Miami. Also, Shaq is still awful lol.

It looks like Haslem has the role that Bosh would otherwise fill. What's he gonna do, shoot jumpers? Mike Miller, James Jones & Stackhouse can do that.

30 points in the first half? Looks like Riley is trying to recreate the '94 Knicks.

Yeah, after watching the first half I'd say the main problem for the Miami D-Wades is that the ball just isn't friendly right now. If fact it's pretty freakin UNFRIENDLY! What they need is better floor spacing, not better defense or anything like that. See this is what happens when you don't have a FLOOR SPACER like Jason Kapono from the Philadelphia 76ers. The offense gets bogged down and you go through too many lulls with your group. It's the classic case of a new team with a young coach who doesn't know how to space a floor properly or what makes a ball HAPPY.

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Jason reply to Chunky Soup on Oct 26 at 21:00
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I don't see how having someone like Jason Kapono would really help the heat, they need post players, not more people who can hit a 3 (they have House and miller when he gets back).

LOL, I'm not sure how having Jason Kapono helps anyone!

1. If Kapono is the answer, it's almost certainly the wrong question.

2. If Kapono is the answer, I'm scared to know what the question was.

3. If Kapono is the answer, the question better not have anything to do with winning a basketball game.

Kapono is the answer to any questions Carlos Arroyo is having right now.

Yeah, like "What am I gonna do when I'm out of the league next year?" :)

Exactly.

Lebron and Wade are too redundant as well.

LeBron, Wade and Bosh just can't play together.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Oct 26 at 21:11
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Wait until tomorow night. The Sixers will be a miracle cure to what ails them :)

Yeah this is the worst thing that can happen to the sixers...you think the heat might come out tomorrow night and play just a little bit ticked off after what is happening tonight...? oh boy...

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Joe reply to MikeW on Oct 26 at 21:20
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It is a 12 point game...

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Rodney Buford reply to Joe on Oct 26 at 22:08
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Make it a 3 pt game with 1:20 left!

And a loss by 8

prolific offense puts up 80 points

The sixers had no chance either way. what's happening tonight shouldn't really be surprising to anyone as the celtics core has been together for a few years and the heat core has been together for 5 minutes.

Predictions of 70+ wins for a team that never played a SINGLE nba game together were ludicrous and ridiculous from the jump. The heat are probably going to take 10-15 games that matter to gel as a real team, and Bosh is going to be so exposed :)

They'll still beat the sixers purely on the fact that they out talent them, but against good teams, that have been together a while, the heat arent going to look good probably until mid to late november?

Oh wow - this D-Wade commercial just sucks - worse than any 'interesting man in the world' commercials.

Nike really needs a new ad agency

You don't like the most interesting man in the world commercials? I think they're very funny. I missed the Wade commercial. For a superstar, the guy doesn't have much charisma.

I think they're god awful commercials. The only good things are some of the parodys of them.

Lebetard just tweeted that tomorrow night's game was a "must win" for the heat. Not sure how sarcastic it was, if at all.

If the heat go 0-2 and lose against the sixers? Oh come on, the freaking NBA would implode. ESPN would be 25 minutes of heat, 25 Minutes of Favre and 10 minutes of that girl QB in Dallas collar bone.

EVERY HOUR

Me, I'm watching Blazers/Suns, let's see how Nash does with nobody and if Batum is a good fantasy pick up ;)

Watching Nash guard Batum prepares me for tomorrows second half of the sixers game :)

Not sure if everyone knows this but you can even get some NBA games on your smart phones now - 44.95 for the season. I don't know how basketball will play, but I know people rave about the MLB Iphone app for live games.

I found it here

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johnrosz on Oct 26 at 22:48
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Thad should be able to get some easy buckets on their interior D.

Only fair as he'll be offering a clear path for their guys to the basket :)

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 23:28
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Definitely. Did you think DWade looked totally lost tonight playing off the ball? I sure did. Going to be interesting to see how well he handles adjusting to that role

I think he looked like he played about 15 minutes in pre season :)

It's a hard thing to become a team in limited amount of time pre-season runs. It's harder when your main cogs don't play. The Heat are going to start off slow in my estimation and people are going to over react.

The lakers look pretty bad so far as well

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 26 at 23:37
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Yeah I agree, the people that thought they'd win 70 games though are misinformed.

They might win 70 games, they might win 72, but they won't do it this year. The bulls took time to become a full team capable of winning 72 games, and they didn't have an injury prone 'major' player nor did they have a PF superstar who you know, wasn't a super star :)

The Heat will be a very good team, at some point, but to think it was going to happen from day one seemd a bit much

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Joe reply to johnrosz on Oct 27 at 7:46
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I think it should be noted that most reliable predictions were changed the moment Miller went down. The 65 became pretty easy to go with the under on.

If Stackhouse plays, 60 is in question. He is so bad...

To win 70 games you can't lose a key player like Miller.

Yeah, he looked a little annoyed to me. They should play him at the point. Put Miller or whoever his replacement is for now at the 2. (But then they'd have a problem guarding the pg if Wade takes the 2 guard.) They could even play Chalmers at the 2.

If you play Dwyane Wade at the the point, then no one else will get the ball.

The smart thing to do is to do what the Lakers did. Lebrons best comparison ain't Jordan, it's Magic. Make Lebron the point forward, use all his strengths and his 'weakness' (not wanting to be the man) as a strength.

It's rather shocking that a guy like Riley who used Magic so well running the 'point' doesn't see that.

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Rodney Buford reply to GoSixers on Oct 27 at 13:19
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For most of the second half it sure looked like Lebron was playing PG. I'm guessing they made that adjustment pretty quick.

For the most part of that game Lebron was the best cavs player on the floor :)

I don't exactly think that because Miami lost a game to the Eastern Conference champions, we know that they won't win 70 or won't gel for 15 games, or know anything.


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