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Sixers Open On a High Note

smh1980 on Oct 28 at 4:33

It was a fun game to watch. I am so happy that the season is finally here. I'm only going to talk about the good since it's the first game of the season. We'll have plenty of time to talk about the bad.

The positives:

1) Turner's rebounding early lead to him getting involved in the offense later. If he played like that consistently then he will be in the starting lineup before long. Lets hope that Collins see's his defense/rebounding as our best chance at winning a game, even if his shot is not falling.

2) Elton Brand looks like he's drinking the "kool-aid". He is showing toughness and has an obvious chip on his shoulder. I liked that he called his teams defense on 3's into question since that has been a big focus for them this summer. I like that he's holding his team accountable. I'd like to see that continue. Does everyone remember how Brand was talking about the defensive expectation was different for him compared to Speights (didn't mention him by name though) last year under EJ?

3) Hawes only saw 3 minutes in the second half lol.

4) Collins is showing that he's the right man for the job. He's trying different things to get them going but you can tell that players like playing for him. He was really fired up in his press conference, talking about the Sixer's effort. Those little comments about how the crowd was cheering for them after a loss sticks with players and fans. I guess I'm drinking the "kool-aid" too because I always gets me fired up just listening to him.

How does Iguodala only score 1 point in the second half? Games like these are why he frustrates me the most.

My bad. 2 points!

deepsixersuede reply to KellyDad on Oct 28 at 7:20

That is because Evan was scoring the ball and, to me, is fine. Lebron is a very good defender so attack the weaker matchups. Did it seem Jrue did well late when off the ball with either Evan or Lou? When the time comes, quickly hopefully, where the weakest perimeter defender covers Jrue instead of Evan I expect Jrue on the wing more often, similar to how A.Miller would play off the ball with Lou at times, to exploit the Arroyo's of the league.

The "short leash" should be for anybody on the team and Spieghts and Jrue both deserved it for different reasons. Spieghts seemed to pout if he didn't touch the ball and shoot if he did where Thad seemed to crash the "o" boards regardless. Doug and Jrue's relationship reminds me a little of M.Cheeks and L.Will.'s, which was a case of pushing and prodding to get the most out of the kid, I like it!!!

Even with Turner having his best game as a Sixers, Dre is still a better player than scoring just 2 points in a half that saw them down 20+. He's just too good for games like this.

Old School Sixer Fan on Oct 28 at 7:25

I was at the game and was very encouraged by their play in the first half, in that they looked ragged - especially Jrue - but were only down by 8. Unfortunately Jrue came out for the 2nd half and committed two turnovers and gave up a dunk while pouting. He got yanked immediately after that. While the 3rd quarter was a disaster, the 4th was very encouraging because Miami still had their best players on the court. Turner's play was worth the price of admission. There is hope!

Chuck Norris on Oct 28 at 7:44

Iggy for Oden.....Get it done Thorn!!!!

A guy who gives you 82 games with his eyes closed for a guy who's hurts himself getting out of bed? No thanks!

All in all, a pretty encouraging start. I've been trying to reserve judgment on Hawes, but good god. Could Sammy really have been that much of a locker room cancer that he was worth this? Hard to imagine.

I actually thought Nocioni looked pretty good this game. Fairly good shot selection overall, good rebounding (including in traffic) and ball movement, and passable defense. I don't know if he can play like that on a regular basis, but he would earn his 20 minutes if he did.

I'm really curious about what Collins is going to do with Thad. Knowing where to be on defense is purely mental, and should be correctable. Thad's last coach just didn't care about that stuff. Collins does. Wonder if he can help Thad figure it out.

Satisfying game. Intensity for 48 minutes. Hope they can keep that up. A lot to like. Elton(12 & 8 would be great), Turner looks like he belongs, Iggy accepting his role without a pout), Thad's aggressive attacking of the basket, Jrue rebounding from a benching. All good things. Can't wait til Friday's game!

Hawes seems like a homeless!!

Are you serious? Iggy for Oden? my godness...

Oden will be a RFA next summer.

Yo Brian, why does Nocioni getting minutes bother you? I thought he looked pretty good, and he was contributing during that fourth quarter run. If he plays like he did last night, I think he deserves to be on the floor. If Collins wants a veteran at the 3 to start, it should be Nocioni over Kapono.

Joe reply to joeykey on Oct 28 at 10:29

That was one game. Nocioni has had good seasons years ago.

The last couple years... no.

Tom Moore on Oct 28 at 9:24

Collins said the Heat were such a tough matchup with their athleticism that it was hard to keep Kapono on the floor.

So what team doesn't have enough athleticism to keep Kapono off the floor? Seriously.

Good point. I guess you can hide him against some teams. Let AI and Jrue slash and spot Kapono up - I think that's what Collins is thinking. Against Miami, that's hard. It's also hard against a team like Boston that plays good interior defense.

So, it won't work against athletic teams and it won't work against teams with good inside defensive presence?

So who will it work against?

Apparently, it doesn't even work against the Sixers second unit. That should probably tell you something.

Teams with poor interior defense (Knicks, Warriors, Wolves, Nets). Cleveland. The Sixers 2nd unit. Temple. Lower Merion.

So good to see Turner play like that in his first game against that competition. If he has thick enough skin to make it through the ups-and-downs of his rookie year, I like what the future holds for him.

Beyond that, I think my sentiments echo most of what's being said on this board about Speights, Hawes, Kapono, Songaila, etc. I do like how Doug is giving a lot of guys a chance to play and I think you'll see the rotation shrink as the season moves on.

My last point (and I don't want to turn this into an Igoudala rag session, because I actually think he's great, but that he also holds the most trade value on the team) is that I see Thorn using Igoudala to make a major move at some point this season, especially if Turner develops. I'd love to see him leverage AI9 in a Nets/Knicks Carmelo deal to get an expiring (Murphy/Curry) and either Favors or Gallinari. I also wouldn't mind a straight up trade to HOU for Battier (expiring) & Jordan Hill. What do you guys think? Again, I'm not down on Igoudala -- I just think the definition of a successful season for this team would be significant growth for Jrue & Turner and to create some cap flexibility in 2011 (if there's even a season) and get a young player (big, preferably) with some potential.

ELF reply to Marty on Oct 28 at 10:16

If Thorn is a savvy GM, wich I think he is..
he would show case Iggy for the other teams, specially OKC.. Durant and Iggy playing seams to fit perfect..
If Thorn could snatch Ibaka for Iggy it would be great !!
Or at least favors for Iggy..

Rob_STC reply to ELF on Oct 28 at 10:31

I was thinking about what the Sixers needed this morning and I was thinking about a Serge Ibaka type. I doubt OKC would trade him and there is only a very few of these guys out there. We need an interior defensive presence. If Thad can work out his d issues I like the way the rest of the group doubles the P&R and they got a good amount of deflections. We can't have this type of post play all season or it will cost.

Quick impressions of the game (I'm trying to compile some advanced stats too and may have more thoughts later):

* I thought the days of 7-footers getting dunk attempts blocked below the rim were done when Jason Smith got traded -- but I guess not. The acronym fits: Spencer Hawes is terrible.
* Turner's rebounding is even better than I thought. He picked up a couple impressive ones in traffic, on both ends. I was also heartened that he played with confidence (and shot well) in the 2nd half. He did struggle in stopping dribble penetration, though.
* Great point by Brian that Brand looked his best on defense when trapping on the perimeter. When Brand tried to guard Bosh in the low post, it was mostly a mismatch (though I seem to recall a couple stops late -- maybe it will take time for Brand to get the Eddie Jordan effect out of his system).
* Thad had his ups and downs, but he impressively finished two drives that started to his right (for three-point-plays).
* I was disappointed that several of Iguodala's isolations ending up in jumpers, after all that was said about his attacking more. It wasn't even good defense that caused it; most times it was one dribble (or no dribbles) and a shot. I don't buy that he can't penetrate effectively (as some of his critics say), because I've seen him do it for long stretches of seasons. As with Brand, maybe it will take some time for Iguodala to get the Eddie Jordan effect out of his system. A few quick hooks and stern words from Collins might help (I thought I saw this once during the game, might be mistaken).
* Nocioni played better than I expected. I wonder if overall he will be an upgrade over Carney.
* It will be interesting to see if Kapono gets the start against the Hawks. The problem is finding someone for him to guard (maybe Bibby?). It would be better if they started Thad at SF (to match up with Marvin Williams) and moved Iguodala to SG (for Joe Johnson).

If Kapono starts on Friday, and I truly hope he doesn't, I'd put him on Marvin Williams. Williams has never impressed me. I'd put Iguodala on Joe Johnson and Jrue on Bibby.

I saw Collins yelling at Thad for over-helping after awhile. If he can't get that part of his mental makeup out after awhile, no one can.

Really, I only had a few problems with this game. It really wasn't a bad effort as Brian said. Songaila shouldn't play unless things get bad, and even then I'd like to see Battie. I thought the Mullet even earned his minutes, not a bad showing at all from him. Lots of toughness out there.

Here might be my one sticking point with this team- I think Hawes stinks, which may make the Dalembert trade that much more worthless. Quick, name one positive thing he's done since he was here. He had one nice pass to Dre on a backdoor, but this guy shouldn't start. Thad at least provides promise on offense. If he is getting starting time, and 10 minutes a game, this will kill the team.

Good efforts by Lou, Turner, and EB.

Hey, Brand looked like a decent power forward out there on both ends. Who knew?! Hope he can keep that level of play up... it'll be interesting to see how he matches up with Atlanta's front line next game.

So first, people are aggravated that Iguodala shoots too much and it won't work with Evan Turner because they both need the ball in their hands.

Now, when Iguodala defers to Evan Turner because he's doing a better job at getting the ponts (and probably defended by a lesser player than Iguodala is), Iguodala will get criticism for not scoring enough.

Good to see he's in a no win situation with some folks just determined to hate him

Rich reply to GoSixers on Oct 28 at 11:12

You really have to stop getting so hurt about Iguodala, the emotional attatchment is getting a little bit much. He was pretty good last night, although the scoring wasn't there. I didn't like that he shot too many jumpers and he had a stretch where Wade was burning him. I wish he would have scored more last night too, but he didn't force it.

Still, I feel like you are looking into stuff when people criticize Iguodala (even if they are right). I'm a huge fan of Iggy, but it gets a little old when "The Iguodala Police" comes in and bitches about him being slighted even when people make slight criticisms.

yes, but you know constantly bashing him doesn't get old at all. You need to stop thinking you comprehend my motivations or have any clue why I write what I write. Ignorance bothers me, a lack of comprehension bothers me. The worlds getting stupider on a daily basis and I'm just trying to do what ever I can to stave off the pending idiocracy.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Oct 28 at 11:25

You're a real success at that. Little kids all the world over have been enlightened about Bobby Abreu's greatness, thanks to you.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Oct 28 at 11:38

Yeah I figured that would be the response, something about ignorance and the world being dumb. I really could care less what you think about the world. Same old song.

Again, I said that you are obsessed with defending Iguodala (I felt that it's unnecessary a lot times, even though I agree with your points). The problem becomes that when I see the same post over and over again, and we get tired of it. I can only go by what you write here, and I'm not reading into anything else.

One more thing: I love when someone criticizes your posts and it's ignorance, stupidity, etc. You do the same to another person (misreading, making judgments, etc.) and well, you do it all the time (more than anyone actually) but there's no problem with it. Just let the argument go both ways.

And I couldn't care less about what you think about me, or your opinion on me, but I find it fascinating that you think it matters to me that you have to keep commenting on it.

But if you could care less, then maybe you should, and you'll stop wasting time commenting on me, and insulting Andre Iguodala.

What I find fascinating (and the point you both ignored) is that for some reason constant bashing of Iguodala is accepted, but defending him as much is 'too much' for the two of you, thus proving it's a hatred thing.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Oct 28 at 12:00

"What I find fascinating (and the point you both ignored) is that for some reason constant bashing of Iguodala is accepted, but defending him as much is 'too much' for the two of you, thus proving it's a hatred thing."

Hah, I hate Iguodala now? Good lord.

Ugh. Alright, you're both somewhat in the right here. You're both also a big part of this community, so let's just calm down a little bit and not make it personal.

No one gets more fed up with Iguodala bashing than I do, but you do have to take a look at the specific complaint before jumping the gun. The guy is deserving of criticism from time to time, if it's not something completely absurd, just let it go.

I don't think anyone is really bashing Dre for his performance last night. He played a real nice first half but when the game started to slip away he was nowhere to be found. When he got the ball in 1on 1 situations he didn't take advantage of it. When the other team goes on a 13-0 run someone has to make something happen and you should always look to your best player for an answer. Your best player should want the ball in those situations. Dre just hasnt figured that out yet.

Mike P reply to Rich on Oct 28 at 18:41

HAHAHA Iguodala Police!

That should be the name of the site.

Sometimes people here act like he is the greatest thing that has ever happened to Philadelphia sports.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Oct 28 at 14:43

You need to explain to me how taking turnaround jumpers from the free throw line, contested jumpers from a foot inside the 3 pt line, forcing the ball into traffic and turning it over, etc. translates to "deferring to Turner"

OK, now this one is silly.

Turnovers: He had 2 turnovers in 39 minutes and handled the ball quite a bit. Not really something to complain about.

Missed/Forced shots:

1. Missed three early in the first. Open look, missed.
2. Missed jumper, with 2 on the shot clock. Had to take it.
3. Missed jumper, as the clock expired at the end of the first half. Had to take it.
4. 7:35 to go in the third quarter, missed 20-foot jumper with 18 seconds left on the shot clock. Terrible shot.
5. Missed 14-foot jumper, 3 left on the shot clock.

So yeah, these criticisms are pretty ridiculous, and trying to reduce his game last night into the sniveling mess you've described is silly:

"taking turnaround jumpers from the free throw line, contested jumpers from a foot inside the 3 pt line, forcing the ball into traffic and turning it over, etc."

1. Hawes, Iguodala and Speights all all battling injuries. That's not to say they get a free pass, but it is a consideration.

2. Turner has the Dennis Rodman rebounding leg kick down. Also great to see him fill the part of go to scorer for a bit. Hopefully that is is long term future. This team needs a scorer so that Iguodala can fill his natural role.

I think there were some good things on the court last night, but look to Boston. They lost to Cleveland on second night of a back to back, and they're already a team concept (and old one but still)

For me, the Heat are still in preseason and figuring it out and off a pretty intense game the night before, talk about hype and over dramatic, that Cleveland BOston game you'd think was about the fate of the world or something.

There were some promising events last night but I"m not getting my hopes up about anything until I see a few more games

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Oct 28 at 11:31

I'm getting my hopes up that Turner can have a solid rookie season. Also that Collins will help these guys develop.

Maybe seeing some competitive basketball. But wins this year are secondary- as you have said many times.

If only someone could tell Collins that, Starting Kapono just reeks of desperation, for irrelevant wins.

If the sixers hired Collins and told him they expected wins, they were fools and he was a fool to take a job with unrealistic expectations. If the sixers aren't willing to be patient with the roster, the fans (the ones who want to win titles, or at least contend) might be screwed.

Still wavering on the league pass investment.

I'd say take the plunge this year. I was encouraged by Collins last night, even if he did a couple things I didn't like, his in-game coaching was very good. I still think the wins won't be there, but this team will be fun to watch.

If i was in the same time zone I think I'd take the plunge more readily, but games are in the 3rd qurter by the time I get home and while I've tried the DVR thing in the past it never really worked for me. Soething about knowing the outcome, I don't know.

I'm thinking about it, but the whole 'pay off your debt plan' takes precendence over so many things usually too

BTW, per ET, this is what he listened to before the game. Well chosen (although not exactly what I listen to):


Jack Straw on Oct 28 at 11:37

Turner's rebounding has been huge. He pulled that offensive board among 4 Miami jerseys before finishing for the and-1. Not a bad way to score the first field goal of your career. He also had an impressive rebound early in the game where he ripped it out of Haslem's hands.... and Haslem is no candy ass.

It's "acquitted", not "equated".

Thank you. I knew equated wasn't the right word but I couldn't think of it. Kept going through words knowing they weren't the right one :)

Thanks for being cool about it. I don't want people to think I'm picking on them - I just can't help myself when it comes to correcting grammar and vocabulary. Besides, it's good to know these things.

Well brian is the one who used the word, not me, so we'll see if he's good about it. I just hate when I know there's a word that I want to use but can't think of it, it's aggravating, and even at 38 my memory sometimes goes :)

Equated is the word I meant to use:

to regard, treat, or represent as equivalent

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