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Bragging Rights

Wall was in a walking boot for a sprained ankle yesterday. He'll play, but it will slow him a bit.

Rumor that Josh Smith will be available by trade.

No way the Sixers take on the Salary. But he's a PF that would fit here.

Joe reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 10:35

I think there are quite a few that would improve the team.

Along with quite a few PGs, SGs, SFs, and Cs.


Tis the case when you are a really bad team.


Josh Smith for Thad + Kapono + 2M cap relief (Sam T.E.)

Probably throw in a top 10 protected #1.

Doubt that gets the deal done.

C:Brand/Speights/Hawes (hopefully next year's lottery pick)
PF: Smith/Brackins
SF: Iguodala/Nocioni
SG: Turner/Meeks
PG: Jrue/Lou

I'd consider this at the deadline if I thought the Sixers would still get their high #1 pick this year (through protection.)

The reason I would make a move like this, but hated the Brand signing is that you can always make further moves with young players Iguodala, Smith, Lou, Turner and Jrue will all have positive trade value throughout their contracts, so you may be up against the tax, but you still have the ability to make trades.

Lou would probably have to be in the deal, if not Turner.

They can have Lou. I'm not sure how they can expect the #2 pick for Smith. Its not just about talent, its about money. For the same reason why I can't imagine the Sixers would ever be able to get Favors for Iguodala.

They want cap space. I doubt they would want to take back either Lou or even Turner's salary (4.8-7M/yr.) What they would really want is an unrestricted #1 pick.

Tk - who do yo ufeel is a better long term option, Horford or Smith?

Probably Horford for most teams. But in the right situation Smith has more of an impact. The Sixer could be one of those situations. Smith would be more effective as PF on the Sixers than on most teams.

Although Smith/Turner/Iguodala has a shooting problem. One would have to be moved.

Interesting thing is that Smith would fit well with Tuner or Jrue or Iguodala. I just think the combo of all 4 together means too many jumpers taken by lousy shooters.

3 out of 4 means the same thing.

Do the sixers really need another athlete who can't shoot, not matter how good the athlete, making as much money as Iguodala (approximately). Without dumping Brand it just locks the sixers into 'this' roster even longer. Is adding Smith and dropping Turner (and bench players) if that's what it takes making the sixers a contender?

No low post presence
No outside shooting

More highlights
More blocked shots

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 11:42

It would have to be two moves - get Smith for the package you are suggesting (I would probably go so far as to make it top-5 to top-7 restricted on the 2011 #1), and then flip Iguodala for a dead-eye, fill-em-up shooter (hopefully, someone who could be at least passable on D).

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 11:02

I would do that deal. Smith is not a prototype 4 like Horford (which is obviously why Atlanta is making the decision to move Smith now that they have locked up Horford), but Smith would certainly be an upgrade over Thad, and it would make me feel better about playing Brand defensively at the 5.

WEll since Young isn't a 4, he'd definitely be an upgrade at the four over Young.

Not a lot of protoype 4's left in the NBA and as the game evolves maybe the 'prototype' 4 no longer functions?

Horford is a "prototype" 4... playing C.

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 11:15

Fair point about him playing C...it is a shame that - because of their roster - he cannot focus exclusively at PF, as he is probably top-3 to top-5 at PF.

Given how 5/60 type deals have been given out over the past few years, looking at it through the current CBA, Horford's deal is a STEAL, IMO (relative to Deng, Smith, Iguodala, etc...).

So lets say Thorn shuffles the deck and ends up with this roster. Assuming health (big assumption) how would it fare moving forward?

Josh Smith

I believe all 5 are 24 or under.

Well, assuming health, that's a great roster.

But assuming Greg Odens health is like believing promises made by politicians. You wanna believe them but you know they're all the same and bull shit liars, regardless of party.

Aside from Iguodala and Lou Williams, I'm not sure how the sixers swing all those moves you are implying that get them Gallinari, Smith and Oden while keeping Turner and Holiday.

Lou, Turner and a top 3 protected #1 gets Smith.
Iguodala gets Gallinari.
Cap space and a S&T gets Oden.

But you need to find a takeer for the Mullet in one of the other trades to free up the cap space.

Sorry, meant Thad, not Turner

eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 11:32

You still don't have a star. And Jrue and Turner together at those positions won't succeed because Turner can't shoot it well enough to play the 2. Hence, Doug's even further admittals this morning that the guy just isn't a good shooter.

Yeah. I agree, none will be top 15 NBA players. But it would be a roster of talented young players who fit. And further moves could be made from there, since each player would have good trade value because of the age and talent level.

Tray reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 12:45

Well if you believe, as Brian does, that Jrue will be a top 5 point guard, he should be pretty close to a top 15 player. Right? It's not even as if the top 5 centers are all top 25 players, maybe one or two of them are. Anyway, that sounds like a kind of fun team to watch that would probably never win anything.

Most optimistic scenario for these starters:

Jrue top 5-8 PG. Excellent defender with 3pt range. 15/8/5, 36% 3pt.
Can create for himself and others.

Turner: 20+ ppg scorer with plus rebounding and defense. Can create for himself and others. 21/6/5

Gallinari: nearly 20 PPG with excellent 3pt shooting. Sub-par defender. 18/6/2 40%3pt

Smith: Intimidating weak-side help defender. Another guy who can rebound and trigger the break (Along with Jrue and Turner.) 15/8/3/3

Oden: Dominant interior defender/rebounder/shot blocker. Can finish interior looks created by Jrue and Turner. 12/12/3 60% shooting.

Add to the fact that these players complement each other extremely well and are all young. Jrue/Turner/Smith can all guard multiple positions. Great interior defense and solid perimeter defense. Good size/length at every position. Crazy athletasism. Hopefully good enough shooting (depends on Jrue and Turner helping Gallinari.) Multiple guys who can create their own shot and score late in the shot clock.... best case scenario is a top 8 NBA squad that would be immensely entertaining and dangerous. More likely is top 12.

Sorry, there was a typo.

Lou, Young and a top 3 protected #1 gets Smith.
Iguodala gets Gallinari.
Cap space and a S&T gets Oden.

But you need to find a takeer for the Mullet in one of the other trades to free up the cap space.

Lou, Young and a top 3 protected #1 gets Smith
No it doesn't.

Iguodala gets Gallinari.
Is Mike D'antoni getting fired? Cause if not, no it doesn't.

Part of a Melo trade...

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 11:43

I like the thought process here.

I'm just trying to imagine what Thorn could possibly accomplish, based on the players being tossed around in runors.

Its really hard to figure out what impact move Thorn will make- but he'll do something big.

Bigger isn't always better, or smarter. I don't think either of your trades are in the realms of possibility because the Hawks could probably get more for Smith (hell maybe they facilitate a Carmelo trade?) and Mike D'antoni would not want Andre Iguodala. He cares as much about defense as eddie jordan (and that is why i find it fascinating that the knicks thought he would lure Lebron)

Rape is illegal

Ilegal why?

Yeah, that trade would require mind control over the other teams. Thorn would have to go 007 and slip something into their drinks.

Ugh Brian, you gotta stop those links to articles on the side, it's just distressing to read how horrible they are

Off topic but 5 years and 45 million for Mike Conley? Crazy.

Yeah but according to the MCA, he's having a career year

Atlanta also may want to move Horford to PF & insert Pachulia in the center position. Believe Lou Will is from Atlanta? So, Lou, Thad, Kapono plus top 7 protected #1(protected for this year only) for Smith & Teague.

If the Hawks had no long term plans to keep Horford and Smith they should have traded Smith this off season. IF they are motivated to trade him now (which i believe is a bull shit rumor that isn't a rumor so much as baseless speculation but some useless beat writer that became a rumor because people don't know the difference any more) then they should have been motivated in the off season. Now they've backed them selves into a corner.

I still think they'll got more than the flotsam of Lou Thad and Kapono.

sfw reply to sfw on Nov 2 at 12:34

Not enough........

Chad Fucking Ford? Really, Chad I can't get my ass out of hawaii ford?

Al Horford's five-year, $60 million extension came as a mild surprise to a number of GMs around the league on Monday. Clearly the Hawks love Horford and the toughness he brings to their front line, but can they really afford him after giving more than $100 million to Joe Johnson this summer?

Several GMs believe the Hawks won't be able to keep Johnson ($18.5 million in 2011-12), Josh Smith ($12.5 million in 2011-12), Marvin Williams ($8 million in 2011-12) and Horford ($12 million in 2011-12) together past this season for financial reasons.

That situation is already leading to speculation that GM Rick Sund may be forced to put Smith on the market soon. Sund briefly flirted with trading Smith last summer, before pulling back. While no one is claiming he's been made available yet, a number of GMs around the league expect his name to be in the mix by the February trade deadline.

So not so much a rumor but baseless speculation from one of the most idiotic speculators working today?

Might have to use Hawes to sweeten the pot!

I'm not sure you know what sweeten the pot means

sfw reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 12:39

Only kidding! Figured I'd get a good reponse from thatt!

Anyway, about this game, I'll tell you why I'm not concerned about Blatche. All he's done this season so far is take long-range twos. Now, if Saunders has any control over his team, that won't be the case tonight, but I don't know that Blatche listens to coaching. As for Wall and Holiday, I have no idea what will happen. This could be the big-name matchup to get him going, but he doesn't seem to me like he responds to that kind of motivation.

The wiz have two young talented by slightly 'uncoachable' (it seems) big men in mcgee and blatche. They only really one to notice the soft doughy center of the sixers defense, and john wall and his amazing passing (supposedly) will shred the sixers down low.

The pacers didn't go to it as much as they could have, maybe the wiz won't either.

Then again, maybe gilbert takes 40 shots

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 13:35

McGee can finish lobs and put back misses and that's about the extent of his interior offensive skills. Being a little uncharitable here, but he's not really going to take advantage of us.

Thabeet could take advantage of Spencer Hawes

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 13:40

As you may have noticed, we don't really play Hawes. We just start Hawes, and then pull Hawes, and then never return to Hawes. I think Brand can body up McGee.

There's no real defense in the sixers front court if the other team comes down low

Brand, Hawes, Speights, Young, they aren't really stopping anyone with even a modicum of a clue...

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 13:47

That's not true, I've seen Brand play pretty good one-on-one defense lately. In any event, Blatche doesn't go inside much and is too stupid to recognize a mismatch when he sees one, and McGee just doesn't get shots period. The game, defensively, will come down to how Holiday does on Wall, whether Blatche is hitting his jumpers, and, actually, how we do against Thornton, who spends much more time in the paint than Blatche.

Agree on both points.I don't think Blatche is going to try and go inside to take advantage of the Sixers lack of interior defenders. But he might still score a bunch.

As for Jrue, I expect him to take a while to settle in this year. Their is a lot on his shoulders, and he won't really thrive until his teammates start developing some chemistry. which might take a while... and a few trades.

Jrue is not the vet type PG who can lead a disparate group. He might become that type of floor general- but its not Jrue at 20.

Holiday+Kapono+Young for Smith

Give Turner the ball with Lou at the 2.


Yeah, that's a team destined to go nowhere

I can see why the Hawks would want Jrue (to eventually replace Bibby.) But I don't think ET is a PG and more than Lou. They are guns that can handle the ball and give you some minutes at PG. But they are not PG's.

bebopdeluxe reply to CM on Nov 2 at 13:57

That seems like WAY too much.

Lou/Thad/Songalia/top-5 protected #1 for Smith

They get cap relief, a quality, reasonably-priced bench scorer (who they could flip this summer if they don't want to hold onto him) and a #1 pick.

So what you're saying, Lou Williams plus garbage is equal value for Josh Smith

bebopdeluxe reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 15:24

What I'm saying is Lou Williams/#6 pick and cap relief is worth Josh Smith

Kings beat writer tweets:

Kings' Carl Landry casually refutes ESPN "sources" who claim DeMarcus Cousins already is a distraction in practice. Says Cousins goes hard.

And here's a nice piece on his start to the season. He had 16 in 17 minutes last night. Played so little because of fouls.


Weren't you the one who loved to point out Stephen Curry's foul rate last season? How does 7.4 fouls/36 minutes grab you? Ladies and gentlemen, DeMarcus Cousins!

Is DeMarcus Cousins the new Ty Lawson?


Good to know

Tray reply to Brian on Nov 2 at 16:24

Basically, except Cousins is actually really good and Lawson is just an average to above average point guard.

That wasn't really the reason I asked. Brian knew why i asked :)

The odds of any #2 pick turning out better than all of the next 4 guys picked are slim.

In fact the #2 pick has been better than the players taken #3-#6 only twice since 1993 (Durant and Kidd.) Its actually more common for #2-#6 to all be pretty mediocre.

Which means hope Turner is a good player. Measuring him against everyone taken after him is a fools errand.

Who does everyone think is better now, and who has more potential between Evan Turner and Jrue holiday?

I already think ET>Jrue and I think ET has more potential.

Opposite. Jrue's better now and has a higher upside, imo.

You both need to stop stealing my mat

Jrue and Turner both have Iguodala type potential and a good chance of reaching it. Meaning second level "star." Neither will be a top 15 NBA player.

BTW, Iguodlala was the 2nd best player of the top 15 drafted his year. So reaching that level would be impreesive. Also, Iguodala turned out better than probably 15 of the last 20 #2 overall picks.

Jason reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 14:27

Could you and Brian tell me what you see in Jrue that makes you think he's capable of being an offensive force? I don't see it. I see a good defensive point guard who is a zero on offense,His game on offense is basically someone who brings ball up, stops at the 3 point line, then passes it away when he sees nothing. I have yet to see him create any offense in 3 games this season. His offensive rating on Basketball reference is 100 which is one of the lowest ratings i've ever seen on there. Granted i didn't watch him as much as you guys did at the end of last year (I was busy during his so called good games) so maybe i'm missing something but overall I am a bit confused as to what is so great about Jrue.

To a large degree its projecting (optimistically.) He has a good handle, size and quickness to where he can get in the lane. He shows flashes of being a good finisher in the middle of the lane and can use either hand (mostly to his L.) And in Summer League he showed a knack for scoring... but probably not quite ready for prime time NBA defenses.

Jason reply to tk76 on Nov 2 at 14:42

aye, true i did see a couple of his games in summer league that impressed me. the thing that worries me is that he has no aggression in the NBA, he's like a mouse. He was a completely different player in summer league then in the NBA.

I wonder if Jrue doesn't feel comfortable trying to take over this team while Iguodala is still here and would benefit from Iguodala being traded.

I think its more to do with him being PG of a completely misfit and lost squad (under a new coach/system.) As PG your job is to make the team concept work. And that is just too much to ask for from a 20 yr old PG right now.

Once the rest of the team gels (if at all) then Jrue can play with more of a comfort level and open up. I think Collins is trying to simplify things to where Jrue can play freer.

I'm going to have to start keeping a list of the reasons people say Iguodala should be traded. We'll make two columns: legitimate reasons and "I hate Iguodala, so I'm just looking for any excuse"

Jason reply to Brian on Nov 2 at 14:50

Lol, I'm not saying we should trade Igoudala. But i am wondering if Jrue would benefit from not having a near all star on the same team.

Nowhere did I say I didn't like Iguodala either.

That's kind of the point. People don't say they hate him, they just say things like "He's holding Jrue back." Serves the same purpose.

I wonder if Jrue doesn't feel comfortable trying to take over this team while Iguodala is still here and would benefit from Iguodala being traded.

Well that's just silly. Totally and completely silly.

Though, let's for instance say you're complete and baseless speculation is accurate. What does that say about Holidays 'leadership' if he's afraid to try and take it from Iguodala. If it were me, I'd see it as a failing of Holiday just like it was a failing of Iguodala when he wouldn't try and 'whatever' when Iverson and whomever else was here.

Your entire Holiday Turner premise seems mired in an absence of facts or watching of games.

The season is 3 games old - why is it that people feel the need to make grandiose conclusions on very little evidence.

You wanna see why people think Jrue Holiday is going to be very good? Watch the entire second half of last season

HOliday is off to a slow start, expectations are higher, teams are ready for him more, but he'll probably adjust, but after 3 games here are things you can't conclude:

1. Who is better, Holiday/Turner
2. Elton Brand is 'back'
3. JTI does (or doesn't) work together
4. Thaddeus Young is 'back'

Jason reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 14:59

Lol, first off i'm not saying "I think this is why" I don't fucking know, i'm just looking at the fact that he looked like a competent player during summer league, but not at all during the first 3 games. I then wondered if the fact that the summer league squad was essentially his squad, given to him, he ran it he was the best player on the team and he knew it vs the regular season
where he is playing with iguodala and doesn't look comfortable.

Please calm down, it doesn't matter if i'm overreacting to 3 games, or people are rushing to judgment on EB and thad being back. If we all waited until we had enough sample size and data to back everything up this blog would be very boring imo.

Keep these things in mind

Summer League doesn't mean shit

Small Sample Size

If you've only seen Jrue Holiday play 3 games, go back to last season

Jason reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 15:03

I would love to watch Jrue from last season, but i don't know of any place to watch those games :(.

Anyone know if synergy makes previous seasons available or only current season?

Only current, I believe. At least the $30 version you can buy online.

Well that blows.

Magic/Heat game postponed - adjust your rosters accordingly

How can Iguodala, a player who is so "ball friendly" hold anyone on this team from excelling? If anything Dre's unselfishness hold him back from being a better player.

Jason reply to KellyDad on Nov 2 at 16:25

Psychologically he might feel inferior. I really don't know lol, i was just thinking hey Iggy wasn't in summer league,Jrue knew it was his team to run, result Jrue was awesome.

I didn't fully think it through, and didn't think it would get this big of a reaction.

I think it's more of Jrue and Turner wanting to stay within the offense Collins has installed. It seems Turner is slowly turning the corner but there is more pressure on Jrue to run the team.

Solid jumper with proven three-point range. Quickness to beat his man off the dribble, size and strength advantages at his position. All of those things project into an efficient scorer, but more than that, he knows how to play the point. Very good distributor, sees passes other guys don't and delivers them.

To me, he's got the requisite size, athleticism, skills, mindset and feel to be a top PG in the league. Turner is lacking some of the same to be an elite wing scorer.

Jrue can develop into a 14-15 ppg scorer. If he does that efficiently and keeps defense honest that will be enough.

It probably won't be a bad thing if he settles into that range as far as ppg goes. It'll mean there's enough scoring from the rest of the team. He has the ability to score more than that, though.

14-15 PPG with 5-6 APG that solid 3 point range and some steals (cause I think he'll be good defensively)

He's a point guard, his job is to facilitate baskets.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 2 at 16:29

When you don't have a ton of scorers, it helps if your point guard can also score 20 points a game. Take Chris Paul for instance. Nobody would accuse him of looking for his shot too much; he scores because he has to. We probably have less offensive talent than they do, so it would be nice if Holiday did learn how to score more.

Rich reply to Brian on Nov 2 at 16:47

Wondering what you think Turner's lacking in those categories. Mindset and feel may be a little fast to make a judgment on, and he has adequate size and and athleticism. Is it his jumper?

I think he has adequate athleticism to be a very good wing, and an efficient scorer, but to be elite at that position you have to either be a deadly long-distance shooter or an out-of-this-world athlete. Or both. He's neither.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Nov 2 at 17:18

I wouldn't say Brandon Roy is either but he's widely considered to be an elite wing. I know you don't necessarily agree with that though

Yeah, I don't think he's elite. He's on Iguodala's level, a notch below. That being said, if Turner winds up being as good of a shooter as Roy is, with three-point range, he'll be just fine.

Is it to early to call this a must win game?


Court_visioN reply to KellyDad on Nov 2 at 15:38

there are no must win games. But it would be nice if they could pull out a W every now and then.

Maybe "must win" is to strong. How about is this a "statement" game? A win tonight atleast shows they can beat a team on their level or worse.

I'd settle for them showing they can beat someone, anyone.

tk76 reply to Brian on Nov 2 at 17:05

Yeah, I guess "we are not the worst team in the NBA" is a statement of sorts.

Is Josh Howard still alive?

deepsixersuede on Nov 2 at 18:48

Guys, Iggy for Josh Smith, would ya? Brian, figure I would give ya another reason to trade Iggy. :)

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