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A Fun Win at the Garden

What Brand is doing is unsustainable. What is sustainable, though?

That is really what I think during just about all the games nowadays.

Lou is a vet huh? When did that happen?

Did I call Lou a vet?

Joe reply to Brian on Nov 7 at 21:02

No, I worded that a little funky.

The way he plays offensively is almost like a vet now. He still absolutely cannot run a fast break and has plenty of limitations, but when his shot isn't falling... he can still help the team offensively.

The last 2 years have shown a lot of growth offensively.

Gotcha, I wasn't really sure what you were saying. Yeah, if he's shooting well or getting to the line, he's helping you on offense. Both and he's carrying you. Neither and he's killing you. It's all tied to his offensive production, though his block on that fast break (after coughing the ball up) was sick.

deepsixersuede on Nov 7 at 20:57

Jrue seems to be letting the game come to him ; he seems to really be happy to finally have a low post threat in Elton and when we strengthen our perimeter shooting, or Turner becomes a #1 threat he may really take off.

Collins spoke highly of Meeks so I hope Jason has a nice suit because the ball pressure and defense of the 3pt. line was good today.

Went to today's game and had a great time. Sat 2 seats away from Ed Snider, and about 10 seats to the left of Fagan and Cooney. Iggy was amazing today. yes, you read that correctly. The guy was a better coach than he is player. He probably did more coaching than Collins and Curry combined. The odd thing is the sixers coudl EASILY be 4-3...or dare I ssay it, 5-2. We act like this team is a joke, but the playoffs aren't completley out of the question if we learn that soon enough that Hawes should be wearing suits for the rest of the year. I asked Ed Snider if he wanted to head to an eagles bar after the game and he gave me 2 thumbs up but looked at me like I was also insane. Ended up a great day for philly sports.

Brian, any observations regarding how these guys appear live as opposed to on TV. Particularly regarding Jrue and Turner in terms of their size, quickness, demeanor etc.

A couple things, one is team-wide. I usually go see at least one Sixers/Knicks game every season and for the past several years, the Sixers have really been much bigger than NY. Physically bigger and taller, like men playing with boys. That is no longer the case. Unless Hawes or Lou are on the floor, all five guys are withing four or five inches of each other. They look like interchangeable parts on the floor, and they look grossly undersized up front, and much bigger in the backcourt. Along those lines, Jrue looks more like a small forward than a PG to me.

Jrue's game is very deceptive. He doesn't have that blow-right-by you quickness with the ball, like there were several occasions where he had the baseline and you could see that a guy like Derrick Rose would've just crossed over and taken that crease right to the hole. What he does have, though, is a sick lull-you-to-sleep game, and extremely smart with the ball. He reads the picks really well and instinctively knows how to use them, when to drive, when to shoot and most importantly, how to set up other people with his dribble. He did this a number of times today, one or two dribbles into a help defender specifically to make him move to a certain spot so he could hit a teammate for an open look. When he slows his game down, he just picks defenses apart.

Turner made some really dumb mistakes tonight, and I believe that's just a rookie thing, but he makes up for it (and is an overall positive) because of the effort he gives. It's a small thing, but he never gives up on a play, he's never walking, he's always doing something to get the ball back on defense, be it defending, crashing the glass, etc. If/when he cuts the mistakes out, I think his offensive game will open up. He's definitely much less hesitant in catch-and-shoot situations.

tk76 reply to Brian on Nov 7 at 22:44

ET looks like he is a decent shooter when he commits to the shot. He looks bad when he hesitates before shooting.

I though the Knicks did a terrible job of game-planning for the Sixers. I realize the Sixers don't warrant a ton of preparation... but you should crowd Jrue and play 2 steps off of Lou while the Knicks did the reverse.

The Kniicks went under every screen with Jrue, after he had scored 29 and was 3-5 from deep the prior game. And Lou either kills you from the FT line or kills his own team with 20 foot jumpers. Yet the Knicks treated him like he was a pure shooter and closed out on him like he was Kapono.

smh1980 on Nov 7 at 23:22

How does everyone like Collins as our coach so far? I've been a big fan.

Jason reply to smh1980 on Nov 7 at 23:31

Outside of ET not starting I am very pleased.

Rich reply to Jason on Nov 7 at 23:57

I would add not knowing how to gauge Lou and playing Hawes too much.

He doesn't have much depth to work with though. I'm definitely pleased for the most part.

Jason reply to Rich on Nov 8 at 0:04

Agree with your first comment completely. However I disagree with him playing Hawes too much, on the season Hawes is averaging just under 15 minutes per game which is fine with me.

Rich reply to Jason on Nov 8 at 0:58

I openly dislike Hawes and his game (and may be biased), but I really think it's fair to say he shouldn't be playing at all really. He plays 16 minutes today in a game that the Sixers win by 10 for example. He throws up a -13 in those minutes. Typical Hawes night. This has to be addressed at some point. Here are his plus/minus numbers for the year:

-11, -7, -17, +7, -5, -18, -13.

Just something to think about and it's not like it's life or death with the team the way it's constructed. Plus/minus isn't the only factor, but that's astounding for a guy who plays such few minutes. He is a warm body that Collins does have very few of in the frontcourt (which is why I can let him go for it), but Hawes has been awful so far.

Jason reply to Rich on Nov 8 at 1:05

I agree with you that Hawes is terrible. But tell me who should take his minutes? I don't think Thad deserves them, he's deceptively bad. Speights might be worse than Hawes at this point. He's like the bad Lou williams but 6'11. I do like Battie, but he can't handle big minutes, and shouldn't get them as there is no chance he has anything to do with 6ers future. Overall i think the sixers are stuck with Hawes getting 15 mins a game unless Brackins transforms into a NBA big or a trade brings in another big.

Rich reply to Jason on Nov 8 at 1:20

I'd go small and give Turner a few more minutes with AI9 at the 4. I'd rather see Speights out there than Hawes too, at least Speights has flashes. You can always give Speights the quick hook if he plays bad too. He hasn't been bad the last 3 games too. Battie is starting to take a few more of his minutes as well. It is possible to cut Hawes' minutes while not over-playing some guys.

I know playing Battie seems counter-intuitive because he's older and has no real future, but I seriously hope Hawes doesn't either. I like Battie because he plays defense for a short amount of time and allows Jrue and Turner to play better basketball because they get a chance to make crunch-time plays and they don't have a ball-friendly zero on defense. Good basketball should be the key, which is why I like Battie.

Jason reply to Rich on Nov 8 at 1:42

Speights is just as awful as Hawes right now. He isn't good on defense and he's really not that good on offense once you look past the fact he can score and rebound well. He does so many things poorly that at the end of the day he's a major liability. He kills a team offensively by just being a ball hog. He kills teams defensively outside of trying to take a charge. I'd rather give Hawes the minutes and try and get Speights to work on improving his game overall (become a team player) as he does have potential but just putting him in there doesn't seem to help him learn.

Also I am against Iguodala playing the 4 and guarding 4s. He already plays a ton of minutes and games and the wear and tear that they'd be asking of him would be ridiculously short sighted considering it wouldn't turn this team into a contender and just shorten his shelf life in the NBA (speculation, Maybe playing the 4 would keep him young IDK). I do think he could play the 4 and defend most 4s but it's just stupid to make him do that on a lottery bound team. The only way it'd be worthwhile is if it gave this team a Contending line up but i don't see it.

As for Battie, I like him, but I don't want him to contribute to winning games and hurting 6ers lottery chances when he's not going to be here next year.

Jason reply to Rich on Nov 8 at 1:54

Although after giving it some more thought I really like the idea of giving Speights the potential for more minutes and trying the quick hook on him when he makes a stupid play on offense or defense to see if he'll learn that way.

Sixers only one game out of the playoffs! Absolutely no reason to trade Brand, he's a beast right now and can potentially get us the 8th seed as a one-man wrecking crew. If we can get a good deal for Iguodala, fine I'd go for it because I want to see Turner starting and taking over games. But I see Jrue-Turner-Brand as an unstoppable force and I want that as the cornerstone for the next 3 seasons.

tk76 reply to stoned81 on Nov 8 at 0:28

I wonder if you will still feel that way 4 games from now. not to be a pessimist, but they are staring at 2-9.

Jason reply to stoned81 on Nov 8 at 0:37

Eh, I think we need to wait a bit longer on Brand. He's currentely shooting .58%. He shot 48% last year, I just don't think a jump like that is sustainable for a jump shooting Big like Brand. Also his Rebounding % has not rebounded (get it?) to his clippers numbers. I do think he will still be a serviceable PF in this league, but nowhere near the level he was on the clippers nor the level you're hoping.

Absolutely no reason to trade Brand, he's a beast right now and can potentially get us the 8th seed as a one-man wrecking crew. If we can get a good deal for Iguodala, fine..

This logic is flawed. You don't want to trade EB because you think we might be a playoff team, but you'd be fine with trading away our best player?

Fair point. Difference is we have no other capable big men than Brand. On the other hand, we can replace some of Iguodala's production with more minutes for Thad and Louis Williams, and Iguodala can bring more back than Brand (I presume) in a trade because Iggy is younger and has a lower salary. Additionally, and very few will agree with me, but I think Brand, not Iguodala, is the best player on this team.

Are you related to Brand?

haha nah but he's my favorite Sixer. But that doesn't mean I can't be right sometimes, for example I was right about his pre-season performance being non-indicative of what he would when the games counted. And really, we have no other power forwards, while we have multiple small forwards/shooting guards. That's why Iguodala is expendable in my opinion, and not Brand.

Great win today. I know it's been beaten to death on this site and elsewhere, but today Iguodala's optimal role on the team was clear. He needs to play like the AI of summer '10 on the World Championship team: lock down the other teams' best wing player; rebound, pass, and finish a few fast break dunks/slashes to the basket. That AI was the MVP of the World Championship team (okay, defensive mvp and second overall mvp on the team, after Durant). Plays should never start with the ball in his hands and he should shoot zero shots outside 15 feet. If he can accept that role, he'll be the MVP of this team and the team can think playoffs. If not, this team is headed for the lottery and the smart move is to trade AI now.

Sixers have 6th Highest FG% in the League. In Fine company!


I don't think they'll continue to shoot this well and worry what would happen if the Sixers FG% ends up under .460 considering we have a low team oRB%

Jason reply to Jason on Nov 8 at 0:59

oops, I lied Sixers oRB% is around the league average. But still, i'm concerned about whether or not the sixers will continue shoot at this high %, also we are 9th in 3pt FG%.

Q for the day:

The hardest part about projecting the development of a promising young player is to guess which parts of their game they will fix. Look at Thad- many of his problems now were areas we thought he would have improved on by now back when he was the toast of the town as a rookie (rebounding, running plays, perimeter defense, handle.)

So look at Jrue and Turner. I'll list a few current weakness compared to established players. Which areas will be cleaned up and which will remain weaknesses of their game even 2-3 years from now. Feel free to point out other areas. Again, this is not to be taken as criticism, more a scouting exercise:

-struggles handling pressure defense
-gets "stuck" in the half court when his 1st pass is taken away by denials
-not much of a midrange jumper
-can get careless when he attacks a double team or pressure
-not the best finisher 4-8 feet from the hoop (likes to try that running bank shot" and rarely shoots a good tear drop or pull of short J.
-Not much of a right hand on finishes
-streaky jumper
-sometimes struggles closing out on 3 pt shooters (like Bibby)
-Has a problem handling small but physical PG's (like Jameer.)
-Struggles at times with pick and roll defense.
-Lacks explosiveness on drives. Can lead to getting stuck on his drives.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Nov 8 at 10:03

I'll get to Turner later, or maybe someone else can take him.

I'm turning this into a post. Great topic.

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