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Sixers Can't Get Over the Hump

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bebopdeluxe on Nov 11 at 8:36
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I know that you have been pushing for it, but if Meeks can consistently give the effort he gave tonight, Rod Thorn should be calling Otis Smith EVERY DAY to see if he would be up for a Lou-for-Gortat deal.

That single trade would go so far to help the fit and flow of this roster, it would not be funny.

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khouse reply to bebopdeluxe on Nov 11 at 9:04
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Totally agree but to entice them further I'd throw in Speights with them including Orton. Although not polished, Orton has potential/skills & would be a nice back-up to Brand when Songaila is gone & would be an option/cheaper should they decide not to re-sign Thad.

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khouse reply to khouse on Nov 11 at 9:09
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Or he could be used to back-up Gortat as well (should such a trade go down).

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deepsixersuede reply to khouse on Nov 11 at 9:14
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A more gettable big may be Thabeet; Lou and Spieghts for Thabeet and Sam Young? Collins may turn him into a poor mans' Mutombo.

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bebopdeluxe reply to deepsixersuede on Nov 11 at 9:19
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I would do that trade as well.

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deepsixersuede reply to bebopdeluxe on Nov 11 at 9:46
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I would really like Collins to be given a team with 0 defensive liabilities and allow him to work his magic. Stefanski moving Sam seemed to diss his new coach a bit, he couldn't figure him out and make it work? It would be ugly and they would have trouble scoring but how else, in the next 5 years are the Heat beatable by anybody other than locking them up defensively and turning it into a dogfight.

Hypothetical situation over the summer; Collins to Thorn; " get me Sam back here, he is affordable and fits what I need for my defense. And by the way, keep Ed out of it."

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Marty reply to bebopdeluxe on Nov 11 at 9:44
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I dream everyday we figure out a way to move some combo of Lou, Thad, and Kapono for Gortat. Apparently there are some problems with Pietrus down there - maybe we take him back to (he's in the last year of his deal). I think Orlando is reluctant because Gortat is such a reliable back-up and Orton is inexperienced and unproven. Given some time to play together, what's the ceiling of a Jrue-Turner-Igoudala-Brand-Gortat starting five. Besides Brand, they're all 27 years old or younger and locked up for multiple years. Even bigger pipe dream - could you imagine Carmelo somehow having a change of heart and be willing to play in Philly? Jrue-Turner-Melo-Brand-Gortat. Wow.

Iguodala gets Gortat & Pietrus(player option next year). If you wait for Dec. 15th, Iguodala & Battie probably makes more sense from Orlando's perspective. Any thoughts on that deal? Can Gortat be a good starting center?

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bebopdeluxe reply to sfw on Nov 11 at 10:21
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Iguodala for Gortat sounds like a LOT to give. I would think that a post-December 15th trade of Lou/Battie for Gortat would work (Battie would give Orlando a decent 12-15 mpg backup for Howard, which I would think wouyld help seal the deal.

The Magic got SQUAT in terms of scoring off the bench last night...and they could DESPERATELY use a guy like Lou who could score the ball and take advantage of collapsing defenses on Howard.

Iguodala for GOrtat is a lot to give
Lou Williams for Gortat is the kind of crime that requires lots of machine guns.

It's early season, one game, and Rashard Lewis is in a slump he'll most likely come out of and Van Gundy is fitting the new pieces. When Gortat was a hot property the Magic wouldn't trade him for more than Louis Williams, I think people need to realize that Louis WIlliams isn't that good and isn't going to have value in a trade equal to that of one of the better back up big men in the league (no matter he'd be a starter here)

The sixers need to get building block pieces, not guys who are ostensibly bench guys but would start in Philly because the sixers had suqadoosh in the front court.

Gortat is more than a good backup. He's probably a starter on better than half the teams in the league.

I'm really curious about what Lou's value around the league is. I have a feeling the teams that have completely turned to advanced stats would be in love with him. The Rockets come immediately to mind. He'd fit perfectly with their horrible roster.

I do think he'd actually help Orlando tremendously, probably more than Gortat does. I also think Stan Van Gundy would hardly ever play him, and I doubt Smith would trade for him.

Well, we all know you have a little bit of a man crush on Gortat, so I'll take what you said with a grain of salt :)

I don't think the Magic want Lou, I don't think that they'd trade Gortat for him (maybe redick or pietrus, you want them?) and that it's too early for teams to panic anyway.

Plus there's the whole 'don't trade height for not height' thing.

He'd be really good in the middle for the Sixers. Jrue would boost his offensive numbers tremendously.

I think you're right that there's no way Orlando would make the trade, though.

He'd be really good for a lot of teams, and like numerous people point out here, Lou has one move, good defenders don't fall for it, and Lou doesn't know how to adjust.

Somehow, it seems, that people here think that while the blog noticed, NBA scouts who have access to much more detailed game footage than we do on this web site would miss it.

Lou Williams has one move, he's easy to stop if you don't fall for it, and then he's a detriment to your team cause he takes crappy shots, can't defend and doesn't pass.


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bebopdeluxe reply to Brian on Nov 11 at 10:58
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Agreed. The Magic DESPERATELY need the kind of offense - either off the bench or late in games - that Williams would provide. If the Magic wants to maximize their opportunity to go deep in the playoffs while Howard is definitively still there, I think that Williams would help them get to where they want to go more than Gortat.

For some odd reason, I feel like Thorn is going to make a good move to get us the big we need.

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deepsixersuede on Nov 11 at 9:10
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Brian, I thought Jabbar's was the "sissy hook" and Spenser's the "sky hook". Seriously, is there ANY perimeter tandem in the league that we should fear defensively? Turner is showing a will to guard anybody and I am starting to hope they let our 3 guys play the rest of the year together and see what their ceiling is.

Down their best player? #11 played last night!!

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Joe reply to KellyDad on Nov 11 at 12:15
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The guy with 6 TOs who fouled out?

Seriously?

Please just stop

Maybe I'm jumping the gun just a little but I guess you must have missed the 17 pts/ 11 asts but that's ok. What about the 19 Pts, 8 asts vs NY or the 29 Pts, 8 asts vs Cleveland?

I guess you still thinking Dre is our best player? That's cool for now but Jrue is right on his heels.

He's not there yet, but I do think he'll be there by the end of the year. The turnovers and fouls haven't been there consistently, but he still has that habit of compounding mistakes. I think it's a youth thing, and last night he did a lot more good than bad. He was awesome for long stretches.

That avatar makes everything you say seem so hostile.

Like you said earlier, trying to guard Westbrook, score and run the team is alot for a 20 year old. Just looking at how much he's improved from game 1 is enough to convince me he's going to exceed many peoples expectations this year.

That avatar is just a message to some of your favorite contributors on this blog.

I'm really proud of Jrue...this is like Bootcamp for him, being forced to do everything. I think this will be good for his career.

as for turner, he looks scared to penetrate. It will come with practice and encouragement. I have as much faith as anyone that he will figure it out. I'm really proud of his effort and the way he does not back down defensively from ANYONE. good for him.

Gilbert talks about taking a crap in Andray Blatche's shoe. I guess that's better than getting a gun pulled on you in the locker room.

Hey at least he didn't pee on him in the shower.

Andray Blatche takes a crap on the fans almost every game, pay back is a bitch

Remember when some (I wasn't one of them, actually) whined and moaned about the 2nd round pick we gave up for Meeks? Seems he's worth a 2nd round pick now.

Remains to be seen, but Meeks definitely looks worthy of minutes. Collins did a good job of sticking with him last night, too, because he was cold when he first came in.

Who went in the second round of 2010 that would first the sixers roster better than another guy who can score and do little else from the bench?

With a glut of wing players, maybe saving that pick and drafting a project big man would have made more sense?

Meeks is redundant and COllins doesn't even seem to like him...

If Meeks can shoot from distance, which it appears he can, then he isn't redundant. And he hasn't been bad defensively, either. He was extremely effective in that zone against the Knicks.

Where is this influx of catch and shoot players from the guard positions where aren't net-negatives everywhere else on the court ?

The continual over-rating of 2nd round picks amaze me.

Part of it is the way the Sixers seem bound and determined to get rid of their 2nd round picks. Another part is their relative success in actually using them. Mostly, it's people seeing someone like Landry Fields and thinking the Sixers should've gotten him.

This past draft, they could've probably gotten a big in the second round who could've contributed on the defensive end where they would've picked. Of course, they could've just bought one as well.

That's my point. second round picks are so easily obtainable, even if the Sixers have a very good success rate with them, trading one for a 22 year old who does fit a need and has shown some promise in the time he's been here is a success. I don't worry about fit with second round picks so much, because of how low the success rate is with them. With second round picks, you're just looking for guys who have a decent probability of contributing. Meeks does. The second round pick was a success.

They're very obtainable if recent history indicated the sixers had any interest in obtaining one - which it doesn't.

I'm not in love with second round picks, I'm in love with the sixers contending some day, and a defensive presence tall enough to play center is more important to me than jodie freaking meeks, and a high second round pick may have gotten you one with potential in this draft as opposed to the upside limited meeks on a team awash with too many swing players and a franchise IN LOVE with playing guys like lou williams and (when he was here) willie green way too much.

If Iguodala was healthy and williams didn't get injured, I wonder how many minutes Collins would be giving to meeks since he seemed uninterested in playing him until the injuries started happening.

How many games this year with a completely healthy roster has meeks dressed for?

If Lou hadn't been injured last night,

Calm down, man.

For whatever reason, Meeks has gotten a chance and he looks like he's worth keeping around. If that's the return you get on a second round pick, you're ahead of the game in most cases. Would the team as a whole be better off if they'd kept the pick and somehow struck gold with a defensive big? Yes. The odds of that happening are pretty slim, and the fact of the matter is, the Meeks trade didn't preclude that from happening.

Meeks hidden value is that having him on the roster may just keep Kapono glued to the bench for the remainder of the season, which is a good thing no matter how you look at it.

I"m quite calm, I'm a little offended at the 'love of second rounder' picks but not surprised by it.

Jodie Meeks couldn't get off the bench until one player went down hurt and got major minutes only after a second, and after one game (small sample size anyone) he's receiving undue praise for his performance.

Plus, like I said, not as vital as finding someone who could have possibly provided ANY defensive presence down low.

Let's see how meeks minutes vary once Lou and Iguodala come back before we start talking about how good a trade it was, huh?

Let's see how meeks minutes vary once Lou and Iguodala come back before we start talking about how good a trade it was, huh?

That's fair. Personally, I'm encouraged by the defensive output in the first two games.

That's fair. Personally, I'm encouraged by the defensive output in the first two games.

Remember when Collins specifically called out Lou in the off season regarding playing defense and playing time?

Man, people bought into that nonsense too :)

I'm writing something on Collins right now. It's been more positive than negative so far, imo.

Are the sixers much better this season because they have Jodie Meeks or much worse because they have no inside presence defensively and no one on the roster who would ever consider becoming one.

Which do you think is more important to the future success of the sixers, a bench guy who can shoot the 3 or a guy who can block shots and have some semblance of intimidation inside so it's not so esy to score on the sixers?

There was nothing precluding them from having both, other than their choice of happy hour at Chili's over actually being present for the second round of the draft.

Assuming Comcast was willing to spend the money, which I don't

The good news is we can look forward to seeing New Orleans make our pick early in the second round while we twiddle our thumbs, waiting to pick in the 50s this coming summer. Willie Green, the gift that keeps on giving!

Dude, we got brackins and darius what's his name, that's better than a second round pick

Right now, Jason Smith is better than Brackins. And Songaila is a non-contributor.

Sarcasm isn't for everyone

And Songaila is a non-contributor.

He never WAS going to be a contributor.

He was however and expiring deal, but then so is Willie.

I love how every time a player leaves the sixers everyone thinks they are so much better

The chance of getting a big man in the second round that can contribute in his first season are close to none. Actually, the chance of getting a quality defensive big man in the second round at any stage of his career is extremely low.

Meeks for a second rounder is a solid move anyway you put it. Most second rounders don't even make a team ever and spend their rookie contract (if they sign one) in the D-League.

Do you really think guys like Whiteside and Alabi (those are the two that slipped in the second round that i can think of) would have actually played. Chances are they would have been sent to the D- league. And a guy like Battie can offer you far more in terms of defensive presence, than those guys ever will (most likely).

Upside does not equal eventual production. It only means the player has the physical attributes required for it. The chances for a second rounder to actually reach his potential are astronomically low. They are second rounders for a reason...

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deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on Nov 11 at 15:04
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The acquiring young assets line in the draft fits here; if trading for Meeks [less than a mill. per] allows L.Will. to be moved for a young big than it definitely was a good deal. But that remains to be seen. If you look at s.g.'s that went in the 1st round [ex.- Ellington] Meeks looks like good value.

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deepsixersuede on Nov 11 at 15:22
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Guys, two part question; How would you feel now, seeing how Jrue and Evan are progressing, if our G.M. talked Dampier into coming here. And secondly, what would be the end result this year?


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