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Salt In Our Wounds

Tom Moore on Nov 24 at 3:07

Sixers expected to send Brackins down to D-League:


Tom Moore on Nov 24 at 3:09

Link to Sixers' phillyburbs videos:


Brian, I agree with your outlook. A positive was Jrue, Turner & Speights getting end game experience. I hope Speights continues with this development.
Looks like Washington may have a keeper in their Center. He's rebounding like a mad man and making baskets. Young athletic, We have to get lucky with a player like that in next years draft.

deepsixersuede on Nov 24 at 8:46

Is Hawes a taller version of A.Miller? Take first 15 games to play yourself into shape. Iggy was a dominant player and I hope they don't think of moving him till a month or so of games where he and Turner put up good numbers together.

In fact, as soon as that happens I think the wins start coming. We may have a productive center tandem after all.

Hawes(WITH HIS MOTHER) recently hosted a party of men in the armed services. Nice gesture. He's also a staunch member of the republican party. Are you?

sfw reply to sfw on Nov 24 at 9:38

specifically national guard members. I wonder if his other interests impact his workout schedule? However, this is a great gesture.


Did anybody else see the winking that went on between Turner and Wall during their free throws at the end of regulation?

Turner went to shoot his with the Sixers up 3 and 8.5 second left. He winked at Wall and then missed both free throws. Then Wall gets fouled on the three pointer attempt. He goes to the line makes the first two. Then he winks at Turner and makes the final free throw to tie the game.

So painful to watch. So painful.

deepsixersuede reply to Scott on Nov 24 at 9:55

I saw Turner do it, not Wall; I like the cockiness of Turner, if he nails them. :)

Kate Fagan tweeted after the game:

Flip Saunders after his team's 116-114 OT victory over the 76ers: "You better keep all sharp objects away from Doug."

"This was not a "What the hell was Jrue thinking," situation (and there were a couple of those in this game). He was thinking his coach told him to give a foul to prevent a look at a three-point attempt for the tie. He was trying to give the foul on the floor. This wasn't a case of idiotic overzealous defense, like he was trying to challenge the shot and accidentally fouled him"

I disagree. Collins saying to foul before he got a three point shot up doesn't mean fouling in that situation wasn't a "what the hell was he thinking" situation, and doesn't mean it wasn't idiotic. There is absolutely 0 chance, none, nada, that a foul should occur in that situation. Jrue has to know his situation and can't come even close to fouling when he's in motion. That's on Jrue, not the coach.

Fagan's article today includes a quote from Jrue saying that he was actually not trying to foul Wall.

"I didn't think he was shooting, and he went up to shoot and my hand was right there," Holiday tried to explain. "I didn't mean to foul him. I got my arm in there when he was going up to shoot."

Jrue also said-

"I don't want to say it's because we're young, including myself," Holiday said of the loss. "I made stupid mistakes out there that shouldn't be made. We're just thinking to ourselves, 'How is this happening?' "

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20101124_76ers_are_beaten_in_overtime.html#ixzz16DGrpSTc
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

"50 minutes in his first game back from the achilles injury on the first night of a back-to-back seems questionable to me, though."


Sometime its like we are watching Hoosiers, Rudy, Seabiscuit- but rooting for the other team. Or maybe like being a Washing Generals fan?

is anybody else disappointed in Jrue so far? Lazy passes, limited court vision and negligible offense.

dude needs to step up or put ET at the 1.

sfw reply to joeykey on Nov 24 at 11:15

He was really built up to be a top point guard coming into the season. Even the coach chimed in. We have to be patient and let he and Turner work through their mistakes.

My take on the two notorious plays:
- Whether or not Jrue says he meant to foul, I think in the back of his mind he wanted to give a foul. While he was in the backcourt, a teammate shouted something to him to that effect. Subconsciously, Jrue might have thought that Wall would get closer to the 3-point line before launching, and if Wall had taken another dribble instead of rising up to shoot, it might have been the "right" foul. As it was, of course, it looked horrible.
- I watched the Turner play a few times, and it looked like Turner took a glance at the ball and thought his man was still nearby. But the man he saw in his peripheral vision was not his man, and N. Young was already near the other corner. The look on Turner's face when he realized he had lost his man was reminiscent of Thad's look on the Ray Allen play, but Thad's play wasn't nearly as egregious as this one.

In the grand scheme of things, allowing the N. Young open 3 wasn't as harmful as the two missed free throws. In OT, the Wizards were only down one and might have scored anyway, even if Turner had stayed with his man. In regulation, one free throw most likely would have sealed the game, since the Wizards were out of timeouts and would have needed two possessions in 8 seconds.

Turner definitely glanced over, saw somebody else stationed at the baseline 3 spot, then by the time he realized it wasn't Young, Young was on the other side of the court.

deepsixersuede reply to Statman on Nov 24 at 11:27

I think our coach has to try to address the issues starting the 3rd quarter, maybe going small or something. I liked the fact Jrue seemed to get Iggy involved and played like a true p.g. and not forcing his own shots when the offense succeeded early in the game.

I feel once Turner starts scoring 15 to 18 consistantly things will blossom quickly, especially if we get adequate center play.

This is very much waht I expected from Jrue this year. A 20 year old PG at best shows glimpses of great things while also making mind-numbing mistakes. Even a future great player like Wall makes some really bone-headed TO's on a semi-regular basis. and Wall and Jrue are about the same age and level of experience. Wall can get away with a bit more because his athleticism can bail him out.

There's nothing to be disappointed in in Jrue unless of course you forgot he's still only 20, still hasn't started a full 82 games, still is learning to play in the NBA and had unrealistic expectations of a second year player who had a strong second half of a season on a team that wasn't going anywhere.

Jrue has been fine, expectations for Jrue (and turner and the team overall) were unrealistic.

OK I need to know this. I have been following the sixers for over 20 years. I dont watch every game but I catch some here and there. Not so much in the past few years as I have become less interested in the team for obvious reasons.
Do you all sit and watch every single game ? Or even 50 percent of all the games ?
I mean with this team thats like water torture. For me at least.
Do you all have time to do this or this is how you choose to spend your free time..its cool if you do, but I guess its just too frustrating for me. Even if I did have the time. I watch the eagles, every game because its 3 hours a week and they have been really good fro like a decade, and if they had a down year, its only 3 hours a week.
If you do watch all the games or most of them...is it enjoyable in any way ? or just never ending frustration at the players, the coach, the owner, the state of the franchise overall..etc. Just wondering...

tk76 reply to Gdog on Nov 24 at 12:45

Its entertaining. Not all entertainment is "fun." Some of the best movies are scary or heart wrenching. And so it is with sports.

I do remember after the game 1 Finals win over LA I thought of how much more enjoyable it was after suffering through the Spoon/Maxwell years. And on the flip side, the Philles recent success has felt comparatively hollow, since I'm not as invested with the team.

So a lot of it comes down to expectations. When Penn State (or the Yankee's) finish .500 its frustrating. But for the Sixers I know what I'm getting into. I'm ready to weather the storm, and hope the payoff will be extra sweet.

But I certainly do not live and die with nightly losses. I watch for the games... not so much for the outcome.

Joe reply to Gdog on Nov 24 at 12:52

I don't know if this was an open question or one to the author, but I'm answering. Do you all sit and watch every single game ? Or even 50 percent of all the games ?

2007-8 - I watched I'd say 90% of plays in the 2nd half of the season with pure enjoyment.
2008-9 - I was out of state for all of the season, so that was a lot of watching games online.
2009-10 - I lost some interest in basketball, but I'd say I watched 15 games very closely, and another 20 or so pretty closely and another 20 at bars or as background noise.
2010-11 - I haven't missed a game I was home for yet. I have probably watched 1/4 of the plays closely this year so far and another 1/4 halfheartedly.

I mean with this team thats like water torture. For me at least.
Do you all have time to do this or this is how you choose to spend your free time..its cool if you do, but I guess its just too frustrating for me. Even if I did have the time. I watch the eagles, every game because its 3 hours a week and they have been really good fro like a decade, and if they had a down year, its only 3 hours a week.

I actually have lost interest in all other sports but basketball for some reason.

If you do watch all the games or most of them...is it enjoyable in any way ? or just never ending frustration at the players, the coach, the owner, the state of the franchise overall..etc. Just wondering...

I enjoy the games, but my expectations are being exceeded, so that is probably why I enjoy the team right now. 2008-9 was crushing for me because I had such high expectations and they were crushed.

My enjoyment peaked in 2007-8 when Thad knew how to play and the team had Miller and Dalembert giving Iguodala a hand. I wasn't a serious fan till Iverson left. I'm not saying I blame him, but I really like how Miller played the game and he attracted me to the game.

Conclusion: My expectations are being exceeded so I'm enjoying things in a relative way.

sfw reply to Gdog on Nov 24 at 13:20

Wow. A lot to chew on. I usually get excited when the season opens which fades as the losses pile up and spring arrives. Watch 85% of games early/mid season and 70% late in season. My excitement seriously wanes as spring approaches. I have other activity in the Spring which gets in the way of my Sixer interest.

Tom Moore on Nov 24 at 12:00

Brand's flagrant foul was turning point in Wizards' OT comeback victory:


He's clearly our best player this year, so when we lose him, we really stink

mo_speezy on Nov 24 at 12:21

I have to preface this by saying I'm a huge fan of Iguodala's game, in general, and this complaint is not really about basketball.

I'm wondering if anyone else is bothered by Iguodala's shitty attitude, which based on some observations from the end of the game last night, seems like it might be taking a toll on team chemistry. Why doesn't he ever celebrate or get excited when something good happens to the team in late game situations, unless he's directly responsible for it? Perfect example last night being his missed layup that was banked in by Thad, that he thought he was fouled by McGee on (I believe it was near the end of OT). Sometimes it seems like he's almost angry that someone else made a clutch play and not him.

It wouldn't really be a big deal that he acts like an asshole if it didn't affect the team in any way, but it seems like it does. I guess it's only conjecture, but I can't help but think the fact that the Sixers as a team don't get excited, don't really have open displays of camaraderie - especially at the end of a tense game like last night, after any of the many times that they re-took the lead/momentum in the 4th or OT - has something to do with the young guys taking a cue from Iguodala. If you can watch the game again, look at the contrast between the way the Wizards team reacted collectively every time momentum swung in their favor, vs. the Sixers. It's a really striking difference.

To anyone who thinks it's bullshit, that other players don't realy care what Iguodala does, or that it just doesn't really affect them - I can't say I agree with you. For better or for worse Iguodala is the designated leader of the team, and it seems pretty natural that the young guys would both take on his default indifference towards what happens with the team, as well as develop some anger/bitterness that their best player doesn't seem to give a shit about something that they wanted to get pumped up for. I swear at one point during OT, after about the 3rd time Iguodala stood there aloof and inattentive during a timeout, Speights followed him back onto the court staring daggers at the back of his head as he mouthed "mother fucker." Look at the tape if you don't believe me. Of course Speights is a head case and could've been talking to just about anyone, including himself, but I wouldn't be shocked if this is basically his sentiment towards Iguodala's leadership.

Watching him this season, I thought he'd managed to curb some of this, but it seems to rear its end when the Sixers are struggling the most. I'm sure he's frustrated with the young guys - he has every reason to be (especially last night). At some point though you wish he would just be professional, try to be a leader. I'm not going to hold up Brand as the perfect specimen of basketball leadership, but he's goddamn George Washington compared to Iguodala.

Again I want to stress I'm not criticizing Iguodala as a player, nor am I saying that his indifferent leadership is the cause of the Sixers' struggles. Honestly I just want to watch a team that looks like they're enjoying themselves out there (unfortunately, like the Wizards), not one that perpetually looks at the end of games like it's just counting down the seconds until another inevitable loss so everyone can get on the bus and go home.


deepsixersuede reply to mo_speezy on Nov 24 at 13:16

If you want to get more pissed off go to recliner gm and look at the clipp under "chuck". He sometimes makes it hard to like him but he sure can play.

johnrosz reply to mo_speezy on Nov 24 at 15:08

My brother sat next to Kapono's wife at a game last year. She flat out told him that the locker room thinks Iguodala "acts like a little kid". So you may be overstating it a little bit, but the sentiment does exist. Some here refuse to believe it has any merit.

well there you have it folks - third hand unverifiable information...

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 15:55

Your choice to believe it or not.

Brian, a post for ya.


Don't play these numbers if you want to win Lotto... or in the NBA. Although this might be the right combination for winning the NBA Draft Lottery.

Jrue-Turner-Young-Hawes-Speights-Lou-Iguodala are the ages listed above. And when you look at winning teams in the NBA they rely on a more veteran combination. Even "young" rising teams like OKC, Portland and the Bulls have a fair share of players 25 and over mixed into their core rotation. Also, true star level players like Durant, D.Howard, Rose, Roy (and Iguodala) can play winning basketball at a younger age- but in general youth means inconsistency and mistakes, taking the highs with the lows. In this way the NBA mimics real life.

A few years back the Sixers had Miller, Dalembert and Green (along with Brand) in their core rotation. Obviously those guys each have there flaws- but even flawed vets lend a bit more consistency than the current romper room combination.

Its hard to know if the Sixers are on the right track. Young players might grow into mediocre vets. And for someone like Hawes (and probably a few others) this likely will be the case. Even looking at the more talented guys, their potential is shiny, but often ephemeral. You cannot assume players will improve their weaknesses while building on their strengths. But the alternative- swapping in some low upside vets in order to squeak out some extra wins- would not help them in a any way.

People often debate about "tanking." But this team is a different beast. An equally ugly one- but one that loses on merit. And as long as they are playing competitive basketball there is reason to hope that todays losses could lead to better play for these players... as well as better talent through the lottery.

So I guess all of this is to say that these ugly losses are to be expected. Don't condemn these players for the mistakes they make today- no matter how egregious. Long term we can hope this represents the bottom. And at least for me it helps take some of the sting out of these losses. They can even be sort of amusing, in a black comedy sort of way. Like our very own Keystone Cops.

A negative I'm seeing in Turner's game is overhelping. He did it earlier when Brand had Blatche under control in the post. I really don't know what the hell he was thinking at the end, but that's just really poor. He better learn from that because that's a dumbfounding mistake.

Another reason they lost is their inability to defend when up 5 and the Wizards want a quick deuce. They always get an easy hoop or get fouled.

johnrosz reply to Rich on Nov 24 at 15:10

Seems to me that virtually no lead is safe when you just don't have any interior presence.

Too easy for the opposition to convert quick, high percentage buckets late in games

Tom Moore on Nov 24 at 15:12

NBA suspends Brand for Wednesday's game against Raptors:


How bad are the sixers in the 3rd quarter?

Through Sunday:

The sixers average 20.8 points in the 3rd quarter, third worst in the league behind New Jersey (20.5) and Cleveland (19.2)

In the 3 other quarters, the sixers average 25+ (decimal points) points. Compared to leaguewide averages the sixers are pretty much at or above average scoring per quarter.

Gotta look at the coach here, no? Seems like the opposing coaches make adjustments at halftime and our coach can't figure it out.

Jack Straw on Nov 24 at 15:51

Iguodala put up nice numbers and had a nice all around game, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tired of watching him taking jumpers on crucial 4th quarter possessions. I realize that his missed shot last night wasn't the determinant of the loss, but a jump shot by Iguodala just isn't a high percentage look and the whole idea of giving the ball to our "best player" in these situations has worn thin on me, especially when our best player is arguably our worst shooter.

Even if he was trying to draw contact, he's not a reliable free throw shooter. I've always gotten the impression that Iguodala holds his offensive game higher than he should and feels like he deserves the ball in end of game situations. Unfortunately, when he takes a pull up jumper and misses on a shot that could have saved the game, then it really highlights his one true weakness (shooting).

Not sure if anyone else concurs, but it seems clear to me that we should be running plays to give guys like Jrue, Turner, Brand, or Lou some opportunities in these situations, all of whom are arguably more naturally gifted scorers than Iguodala.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tired of the blame being laid at Iguodals feet night in and night out.

The sixers got A LOT of blog coverage today as to why the sixers lost, various blogs that don't recognize their existence have analyzed why the game was lost.

Iguodala wasn't one of the reasons listed

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 16:36

So we should give higher value to the opinions of people that don't even watch the team on a consistent basis?

Tray reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 16:41

I don't know. I didn't watch the game, but I gather that a lot of things went wrong towards the end and he wasn't involved in said things. However, he did use 24 possessions to score just 23 points, he did choose to take 7 shots from 16-23 and only made one (and also took 2 10-15 jumpers and made 0), so how is he not partially responsible for the loss? It's safe to say that if he weren't on the floor we would have done even worse, as he did a lot of positive things, but that doesn't mean taking all those mid-range jumpers and missing on 89% of them didn't have something to do with the outcome.

johnrosz reply to Tray on Nov 24 at 16:43

he's not responsible for the loss because he absolved himself of blame in his post game comments, like he always does.

Rich reply to Tray on Nov 24 at 17:04

He took too many jumpers last night, but was fabulous in every other aspect. He made a couple of nice threes off ball movement, but he did take too many long twos. His assist numbers don't do his passing justice. In the first half, he kept pushing the ball frenetically after a miss and getting great looks for others.

I thought that he wasn't responsible for the offense going into the tank because he wasn't really getting the ball. Then again, I would have liked to have seen him get the ball at the end more.

Jack Straw reply to GoSixers on Nov 24 at 18:10

I never blamed Dre for the loss. I even said in my post that his missed shot at the end wasn't the cause of the loss, and I wasn't referring to last night's game or any other game in particular. I've already vented on the many other reasons why we lost the game last night. All I'm saying is that we should be able to produce a higher percentage look on final shot possessions than an Iguodala pull up jumper.

Collins should call better plays then

Sam was traded
So now it's all Iguodalas fault
Iduodala will be traded
then it will be Holiday's fault

It's truly incredible

THe sixer lose games in the 3rd quarter, constantly.

I'm sure that's all Iguodalas fault?

In the first quarter
The sixers average 25.4 points
Opponents average 26.5 points

In the second quarter
The sixers average 25.2 points
Opponents average 25.8

In the third quarter
The sixers average 20.8 points
Opponents average 24.5

In the fourth quarter
The sixers average 25.4 points
Opponents average 23 points

Those numbers are before last nights game against the Wizards

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