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Game 16 Thread: PHI @ MIA

Dampier is a pretty nice addition. His career has been obviously on the decline over the least 4 years, but he can still outplay most centers and any Sixer center.

The Heat need to start getting some 2nd chance points, though. Ridiculous that they are last in the NBA there pretty much.

Outplaying any sixers center isn't that tough

Dampier is old, with rickety knees, he's not going to solve the Heats problems.

The Heat need to learn to rebound

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Alvin reply to GoSixers on Nov 26 at 19:47
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Sure gonna get a lot of 2nd chance opportunities against the Sixers' "bigs".

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deepsixersuede on Nov 26 at 19:15
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Does Turner get some time on Wade? Iggy definitely gets up for Lebron and may outscore him.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 19:40
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Call me crazy. But I smell an upset brewing. Not sure how long that aroma will last....

Big games from Thad and EB tonight I feel. Dre should be motivated for this one, hope he doesn't settle for J's and instead attacks relentlessly.

lol. Blind faith ftw.

Jesus, 4th chance point for the Heat on 1st possession.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 19:48
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That wasn't a goaltend? Need to see a replay

Jrue was right, total travel on LBJ there. Two questionable buckets for 'The King."

EB needs a touch every time. They got Jrue a great look there. I hope he'll make it next time.

YEAH BABY! 2 monster dunks for Dre! Wade looks awful.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 19:54
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Well, 1st timeout, the Heat didn't come out on fire but we didn't capitalize either. We just look too relaxed on defense. More ball pressure needed. No one is active enough at the moment.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 19:58
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Why is Jrue cheating toward the lane there? leaving Arroya open for three.

Damn, Arroyo's the one that's killing us. Again, I repeat, Brand needs a touch every time down. Every time.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:00
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That between the legs dribble for a turnover by Evan is useless out there. He wasn't changing directions with it. Just going right at his defender. No need for that.

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:02
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I see a long stretch of bad basketball from ET coming. Just looks like he's getting more and more frustrated

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:02
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Totally agree on EB needing a touch. Run it through him each time you can.

Turner got to the line a bunch in the preseason right?

All this guy seems to be doing is pulling up. Take it to the hoop a bit more Evan.

Turner looks terrible out there.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:03
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Let's see if the bench provides a spark here.

Bad three by Iguodala there...

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:05
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Brand's head-bobbing and pump faking too much. Just go up with it initially.

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johnrosz reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:06
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when he does that he gets stuffed. he has zero lift

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:05
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I don't want Brand getting any touches. He looks old tonight

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:07
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OH....nice play there for the Speights oop.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:07
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Don't you start that mess Lou....

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:11
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Jrue has to find his offense when he gets his next run. He's got to score for us. Maybe Thad can provide some lift when he gets in. Would like to see Jodie out there with Andre and Jrue instead of Evan/Lou. Just for his spot up potential

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:11
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I'm not a shooting coach but has anyone ever told Lou it's a bad idea to lean heavily to one side when you shoot your jumper

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eddies' heady's reply to johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:13
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Hadn't brought it out this year but - Leaning Lou!

Sixers did a lot of shooting themselves in the foot that quarter. Doesn't feel like it should be an 8 point game.

Lou is atrocious after the shoulder injury. He shouldn't play at all until he is fully healed.

Gotta love Lou. Ugh.

God, Speights is such a zero on the D boards.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:17
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Down 10 w/ 8 min left in 2nd quarter. They need to be careful here, this could get out of hand.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:19
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He put Evan back in kind of early. But left Lou out there. Let Jodie get some burn. Lou can't knock down those perimenter J's right now.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:20
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Jodie's in. But Hawes is back too. Bring Jrue in for Lou.

Lou, Meeks, Turner, Thad, Hawes-

(throws up).

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:21
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Lou messed up that break. But Jodie still canned the 3!

I think Jodie would be a good fit on the Heat. Seems to make open threes more than James Jones.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:23
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Hawes with the shake-and-bake but passes....lol...and Lou with the luck 3!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:24
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Some improved energy from this unit. But MIA's 2nd unit is in too all things considered. But stiil, just keep this close and maybe the Heat will be the ones that wilt tonight.

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:25
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Evan looks so pissed when he doesn't get the ball running off those screens.

I think he's doing a pretty decent job on Wade, not letting him get anything easy. Good effort.

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Court_visioN on Nov 26 at 20:25
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Hawes' good offense... still waiting for that. His pump fake didn't fool anybody in the building, and that "Garnett shake and bake move" only faked himself

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Court_visioN on Nov 26 at 20:27
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If Lou is matched up against a young player he can try to use his fakes and change of pace (I'm guessing he learned this from Andre Miller) to get to the FT line. When his opponent is a veteran, he's forced to jack up crappy shots.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:27
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Come on Doug, get Lou out of there. Put in Jrue.

Jodie looks like he's got it going on tonight. That was such lazy D by D-Wade, thinking he was going to send a jumper into the third row.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:29
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Yeah Jodie!

I'm telling you, put him out there with Dre and Jrue. With their penetration and probing prowess, he can get some nice looks. He's got nice elevation on his jumper.

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:32
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Hawes is incredible to watch.

Damn, the refs are just giving LeBron points against Dre. That last one looked clean, but I didn't get a replay.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:33
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They need to maintain this under 10 right here to close out before the half. Just keep it close guys. No turnovers.

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Court_visioN on Nov 26 at 20:33
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Dre with his 3rd foul... Thad in at the 3 matched up against LeBron.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:34
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I wanted a replay on that Dre pick too. Thought it was clean also.

Damn Jodie is keeping them in this game by himself.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:37
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If Evan would be as aggressive as Jodie, he'd deserve his minutes. But he's so far from it. Jodie's thinking score. Evan's thinking who can I give it to next.

Jodie can't miss.

Wade is playing terribly. That should have been offensive probably.

How is that a foul on Hawes? Clear off hand push off. Ridiculous.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:38
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JODIE! JODIE! JODIE! FOR 3!

18 of our last 24 points. Play the kid Doug!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:41
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Good close-out to that quarter. Down only 4 at the half. That aroma is still floating around. Getting a little more pungent.

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bebopdeluxe on Nov 26 at 20:43
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jodie FUCKING meeks

Lou's gotta get his game back...so we can trade him.

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:44
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I'd love nothing more than for Jodie to take Lou's job. I have a feeling Eddie's Heady's is with me on that

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eddies' heady's reply to johnrosz on Nov 26 at 20:50
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While polarizing, I'd love for him to take Evan's too.

Not because of tonight, but he should 'arguably' start. He's the best type of fit between Dre and Jrue.

I'm not entirely sure what makes Meek a better fit. I can only assume it is 3 point shooting.

If you swap in Meeks, it looks like the offense would improve, but the defense and rebounding would really suffer.

I think the more obvious thing is for Meeks to just take more of Lou's minutes since he has been so bad since the shoulder thing.

And Meeks is still only a 33% career 3 point shooter. I'm not saying he isn't better than that mark now, but that is what he has been over the past 2 years.

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eddies' heady's reply to Joe on Nov 26 at 20:58
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Meeks is a better fit plain and simple just because of shooting. Not 3 pt specifically, just shooting the ball in general.

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bebopdeluxe reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:59
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Meeks might be the best fit, but Turner's the better, higher-upside guy. Too long...too good of a rebounder and potential perimeter defender to dismiss like that, IMO. I would be thrilled to simply split the time at the point between Jrue and Turner and have Meeks take Lou's 20 minutes a game.

We might be able to get a young big for Lou to replace Hawes...and give ET the PG minutes that he should roll with.

Well at least they lasted a half with the Heat.

I am psyched in anticipation of the inevitable third-quarter collapse.

Alright, down four at that Jrue and Dre have been pretty quiet in. Dre's been good, but we're going to need more.

Unreal streak by Jodie. Maybe we are getting a repeat of the Tennessee game in college? Crazy that they are within 4 points right now, no real standout or good performances from anyone else.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 20:53
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They've got to look at Jodie and say, "this guy's playing his ass off,... hustling,... not just scoring buckets", and let it infect them.

Their body language with this 1st unit he throws out there will tell me a lot.

Didn't DC change up a lineup at the start of the half that was different from the first? Wouldn't be surprised to see him put Jodie back out there...but nah, maybe he won't.

Look, I'm in love with Jodie's performance too. His effort has been similar to the rest of them though, save for guys like Hawes and Lou. He isn't doing anything extraordinary beyond his shooting.

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Joe reply to Rich on Nov 26 at 20:59
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I agree. I do think, in general, Meeks has given some extra effort throughout this year when given the playing time. Running off screens and grabbing some steals come to mind.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Nov 26 at 21:01
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Respectfully disagree. His effort has been very extraordinary compared with others tonight. The shooting is just gravy in the sense I'm speaking.

I think you are letting the shooting get in the way. The effort has been good tonight for most of the team.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Nov 26 at 21:10
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Seriously, how many times do I have to tell you that it is not the shooting of which I'm speaking. And you still keep insisting on what I'm feeling. How is that?

It's him running the floor. It's his willingness to penetrate with the intent to score. It's him busting ass running off a screen. It's him attempting to play defense and move his feet. It's him willing to absorb contact and get to the line (which he hasn't done tonight). Yet, you still are going to say what I'm letting get in the way? I stated it was just gravy.

Yeah, I am. The shooting is not gravy, he needs to make shots to play well. I think he can do that, so he should play.

Jodie plays hard, I like that too. Jrue plays hard, Andre plays hard, Thad plays hard, Speights plays hard at a lot of points. Hawes has played hard tonight.

Penetrating to score is not effort, nor does he ever do that. He's a specialist, he better run his ass off screens. He's a shitty defender who busts his ass, very similar to Thad. He's been to the line 10 times this year, hardly a large enough sample size to show a willingness to absorb contact.

I think he should play a lot more, but I'm not buying this "he plays harder than everyone else" BS.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Nov 26 at 21:28
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So, you're still gonna tell me how I feel, huh?

That's how you feel, fine. But I don't share the same sentiments. Upside don't mean squat to me, I want the guy that's giving me production right now. Jodie's just as young, so why belittle his upside and minutes?

His defense is not as you speak, either, to me.

And please don't twist the argument that I stated "he plays harder than everybody else". That was never, ever said. You twisted it that way.

Nope, I was telling you how you feel was wrong. Now you are lying. Forgive me to think that you said he was playing harder than everyone else when you say things like this:

They've got to look at Jodie and say, "this guy's playing his ass off,... hustling,... not just scoring buckets", and let it infect them.
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"His effort has been very extraordinary compared with others tonight."

Sorry for twisting that. I'm not belittling his minutes. He probably should play close to 20 minutes on this team. Judge if he's hot shooting, and extend his minutes accordingly. As far as upside (a shot at Turner maybe?), I didn't really say anything about it, except that he's a limited player. I think that's a fair assessment. He could be a rotation guy on a good team though.

Again, you say: "I want the guy that's giving me production right now."

Straying off argument with that point, which was about his effort (and his shooting is just 'gravy') His production is simply shooting, which this team could use. He had two assists and a steal tonight that was really Iguodala, who deflected the pass. I hate to break it to you, but his ability to shoot the ball will mostly determine how far Jodie goes.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Nov 27 at 9:56
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It's a shame you can't respect another individuals view of a player/being a part of a team - to still say that how I feel is wrong. It's not wrong, or right, it's merely my feelings on a player and how he could possibly help this team. Maybe I was wrong to just assume it was ego with you when it appears it's even more than that.

And no, it was not a shot at Turner. The convos were ongoing and it was mentioned above that Turner was the higher upside guy. Why does everything have to be so dang personal with you when it comes to Evan? Really...

I feel that Darius Songalia is a better player than Lebron James.

That is how I feel and is thus infallible.

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eddies' heady's reply to Joe on Nov 27 at 12:36
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To each it's own....

You said Jodie was playing harder than everyone else. I said that wasn't true.

You said the shooting is just gravy. I said that's not true with him, actually it's everything to his game/importance.

Then you come back with a line about 'I want the guy who has production.' All of his production is shooting, best game of his career and he had 2 assists and a steal that wasn't really his.

I don't have an ego, this is a basketball comments section for God's sake. I'm not calling you names or anything. I simply think you're original point was wrong, and pointed it out.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Nov 27 at 13:52
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Dag man, you still don't get it. I never said Jodie was playing harder than everyone else. You INTERPRETED it that way. And then proceeded to dissect it under a microscope.

I made the comment in a 'Jodie's mindset, energy, effort, leading-type-of-way' - maybe others would follow, hence when I said "infect them", that's all. It's not like we have any glaring on-court leadership out there.

You've twice brought up 2 assists and a steal. You're dwelling on his stats and I'm more focused on his intangibles - what he brings to the team and position and how he opens up things for himself, and more importantly others.

Buy you've tried to make it a wrong vs right issue, when it's really just two different views on a player/fit. Respect the differences, man.

Sixers need someone other than Meeks (Jrue/Iggy/Brand/Thad/Speights) to score the ball.

Oh and making a stop or two would be nice.

Else it's blowout city.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:05
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Look at this unit. Just standing around on offense. Sub early Doug.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:12
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This unit has kept it at 4 with 5 min left. Good job. Now get Hawes out of there. Let's go Thad. Bring energy.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:12
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Dre with the between-the-lets-stepback. Nice.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:16
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Good block Thad!

Jodie, shhhh boy!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:18
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Jrue sagging way too far off again. ugh arroys for three.

Thad with the deuce.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:19
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Make these Dre, and we're tied. Let's go!

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:20
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SHit, he missed both. ugh

god damn the missed free throws.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:21
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And Lou's back in. Gunning and clanking.

He should not play.

i think sixers can steal this

I'd go Jrue-Meeks-Dre-Brand-Speights in crunch time here. I mean crunch time in like the last 10 minute sense too.

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 21:25
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Looks like Doug has corrected Thads overhelping tendencies a little bit. But now Thad has passed it on to Jrue

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Nov 26 at 21:28
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Jrue's had that for awhile I think. He likes to stick his hand in for help steals. He's gotta fix it too, because PG is a position that has good shooters.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:30
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COme on! that was lazy D there. EB and Speights just gazing out there. Not moving or anything. ugh

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:33
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How does Jodie not get a call there, but Lebron gets one on the other end?

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eddies' heady's reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:34
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Maybe it wasn't after 2nd view. look like he lost it. Anthony was there too.

Damn Jrue, foot on the line.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:35
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Jrue with the J. Get some stops.

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johnrosz on Nov 26 at 21:41
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The flood gates opened when Lou made his entrance

Just didn't have anyone else scoring the ball besides Meeks really. The D fell off late too. We just needed Jrue or to a lesser extent EB at the 5 to have a dominant game at their positions and they didn't really do that.

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Rich reply to Rich on Nov 26 at 21:46
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Not over yet though when you have a guy like Meeks going and the game at 8 points.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Nov 26 at 21:48
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Agree on Jrue. I mentioned earlier that I wish he could have got going. He created well but just didn't get enough of his own.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:46
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Down 8 with 4 to go? Another run guys? Ball pressure is mandatory at this point. Bring one home please.

Iguodala's quietly having a great game. It would have been huge if Brand hit that.

Even if Wade's hurt, Jodie's going to have trouble guarding him.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:51
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And they're rightfully going right at Jodie.

And he turns it over, for a Wade 2 the other way. ugh

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:53
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The aroma has dissipated....

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:55
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Free means uncontested. And we still can't make them. Sheesh.....

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 21:57
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Another loss. Seemed like we were kind of in it to a degree. But no moral victories here. Win a damn game will ya?

This team is just such a mess right now. They didn't run anything offensively at all tonight. They look like they haven't really played together much.

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tk76 reply to Rich on Nov 27 at 0:08
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Hah, you could say the same about the Heat... just with a (much) higher individual talent level.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 22:13
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If we could have just made more of our free throws this would have been a very different game I suppose. They were huge tonight. And if we'd converted just 4 or 5 more of 'em, it would have been interesting.

Damn free throws, they're called that for a reason.

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eddies' heady's on Nov 26 at 22:26
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And if we didn't come out flat and get down early - again.....

Turner's play is really troubling. You can't make shots if you don't take shots. Favors, supposedly the defensive option at our slot in the draft, has more of an impact on the offensive end than him right now.

Could be worse, though. He could be taking too many shots and missing an inordinate amount of them. Like your man DeMarcus.

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Tray reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 1:56
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At least Demarcus shows he has potential a couple times a night; Turner's not showing anything, other than rebounding and alright defense. I think we'd all feel a lot better if Turner were inefficiently scoring 13 a night but at least showing that there was some kind of pro game there to build on.

I don't think I'd feel better if Turner was shooting 38.5% from the floor with a 0.47 assist-to-turnover ratio, no. I'd feel like he was an idiot gunner who's probably going to sink his team for years to come. Worst case with Turner is he's just a decent rotation player who doesn't hurt you when he's on the floor.

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mgfields reply to Brian on Nov 27 at 13:46
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I am an Ohio State/Turner fan who has been following Evan since he was a freshman at OSU. I've starting following the Sixers closely since Evan joined the team and I'd like to add my 2 cents on why I think Evan is struggling right now.

Evan does not have your stereotypical NBA basketball player personality (Egomaniac). He will not "go out and get his" no matter what. In Sixer terms, I think of him as the "Anti-Lou". Lou Williams could be playing with Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo, and Dwight Howard and he would still jack up threes and off balance jumpers. Lou Williams is going to get his. Offensive game plan be damned.

This is not Turner, he is the Anti-Lou. Right now, when Turner starts, he is basically the fourth option on offense. Things are set up for Brand, AI, and Jrue to get theirs. Collins has said in interviews "Evan is not a high volume shooter". If things are set up for those guys to get their shots, Evan is not going to shoot it unless it is obvious he has too.

I have not seen Collins run one play for Turner all season, or show any confidence in him offensively. Collins says in interviews that "He won't take away from anyones game". Except Evan, whose is told that he must go away from his strengths (Ball in hand) and play "Off the ball". Could he not get the ball once in a while, in a position where he's told to create? Evan, this is your play, we are going to put you a position to succeed.

Turner sees the organization draft him, call him the future star, and then say "Lou is doing to take every shot at the end of the quarter" and "every cluster set will be designed for Andre to get the ball".

The reason why Evan was a star in college was that Thad Matta but him in a position to be great and Evan responded by being greater than anyone thought he was capable of. One of the stories Matta told about Evan was that early in Evan's career, he was afraid to screw up (like he is now). Matta took Evan into the gym, just the two of them, and had Evan throw the ball over all over the court, just into the stands or wherever. After they were done, Matta said "look, I'm not mad when you make a mistake. I know you will do much more right then wrong".

Right now, in his mind, the Sixers go not want him to be a star. He thinks they want him to play defense and rebound and shoot it if he's open. He has permission to be a role player, and that is what they are going to get. All Evan needs is permission to be great, and while it may take a while, I still believe he could be great.

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eddies' heady's reply to mgfields on Nov 27 at 14:00
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OK, so in Summer League the excuse was 'he hasn't played in months'.

The excuse up to this point in the regular season has been 'he was a slow starter at every level, particularly college'.

So now the new excuse is the team is holding him back from succeeding?

When does it ever fall on Evan, the player himself?

Sounds like the argument Brian has made concerning DeMarcus Cousins - it'll always be someone else's fault but his own.

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mgfields reply to eddies' heady's on Nov 27 at 14:45
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I didn't feel like I was making excuses...just trying to explain Evan. When he had a bigger role on the team (AI out), he responded with some good games.

Basically the fans and media want him to be the star today but I think in his mind the coaches and team want him to play a role (Defend, rebound, don't turn it over, hit the J when open).

I do think Evan should be more aggresive, I was just trying to explain why I think he isn't.

The Heat aren't good enough to come together and win the chip in one year like the Celtics. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh all seem to play the same position, sipping on a pina colada somewhere on the wing.

Sixers, with any hustle, should beat the heat. I can barely watch Heat highlights home alone by myself, because their defense is a horror show.

He needs to use his get out of jail free card.


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