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Maybe They Need A Gunner?

johnrosz on Dec 23 at 12:15

Magee would like to suggest Monta Ellis as a plausible candidate.

Yeah, I pretty much blame last night's loss solely on Collins. Not because of who he did or didn't play but because he never played the cat and mouse game of exploiting mismatches on the floor and making Doc counter. Sure, Meeks was horrible, Hawes was rather inconspicuous, Iguodala has seen better nights, but Collins dropped the ball in this game, imo. Not to take anything away from the overall job he's done up to this point, but he failed, and miserably, last night. Sorry, coach.

I'm going to say that over the long term (of a season), our defensive rebounding will eventually go to shit. It HAS to. Maybe our guys get tired because a lack of big man rotation and we don't defend the rim as well as we used to. If you're trying to max wins, you get another big man. A gunner for me is just aaaaagh, nono.

Good post. Definitely a pure shooter is a glaring weakness. Even a guy like Marcus Thorton would be great for this current squad. But long term they need a more serious upgrade.

For now I'd actually stick with Meeks a bit longer. He was hot, now he is cold. but he is a natural shooter/scorer. I actually agree with Fagan that given some time to settle in Meeks will eventually find his shot again (although not at the level of his 1st few games.)

The fact is pure shooters are either highly flawed or stars. They are either crazy, undersized, defensive liabilities, low BB IQ or some combination of both. In fact sometime they have those flaws and still are stars (see Arenas in prime.)

So basically the Sixers are well served with a flawed shooter as opposed to a better all around player with a shaky jumper. So where does that leave Turner long term?

Definitely a pure shooter is a glaring weakness.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't view a gunner as a pure shooter. Iverson was a gunner, not a shooter, lou is a gunner, not a shooter, KORVER is a shooter

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 12:36

I agree. they do not need another gunner. Lou is more than enough gunner for any team. Let alone Speights.

They need a gunner who can shoot, imo.

So they need a super star, but yeah, who didn't know that :)

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 12:58

They need a Christmas Miracle!

Man, never took you for a jew hater :)

Seriously though.

They need to maximize the value of Elton and Andre and give up the 'first round loss' ghost

The goal being to trade it for the lottery balls in possibly the weakest draft class ever ghost?

tk76 reply to Brian on Dec 23 at 13:10

Yeah, last year probably had only one lottery "winner" in Wall. This year looks to be neither deep or talented- but you never know.

Yes Brian, the only thing the sixers get from trading those players is a higher lottery position in the 2011 draft, they'd get no other assets from trading either of them.
No future picks, no cap maneuverability, no younger players with upside. All they'd do is improve their 2011 lottery position

Dude, go unplug, have fun with your kids - everyones so morose here right now :)

After you get me the rotations from the past 3 games of course :)

Yeah, yeah. As soon as I'm done assembling rocket ships, dollhouses and assorted other shit that's going to clutter up my apartment.

And yelling at kate fagan :)

I know the Sixers would be a bit better with another shooter, but I would rather Collins just go with Turner for regular minutes. Other rookies have struggled badly their first few months, but they usually pick up their game and learn to contribute with more playing time. I would like Collins to say to Turner, hey we know you're having a tough run right now, but we still believe in you, we drafted you cause we know you're a good player, now go out there and play your game and be aggressive. I think that show of faith would do good for the kid, but that seems to be beyond Collins who at this point is in full on floor spacing mode.

I agree. But you can have it both ways. You can start Meeks and still give Turner 25+ minutes.

I haven't looked at meeks a lot but does meeks fit into my 'louis williams' theory where he does that one thing well, and if he ain't doing it well you sit his ass?

It's sort of deeper than that. He's getting to the point where his shot isn't falling, so he's trying to do things he isn't capable of doing, with disastrous results.

But the principle of 'if the shot isn't falling, sit him' that I think should apply to Lou sounds like something that should apply to Meeks?

One player on a team like that is bad, two is a disaster

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 13:31

Meeks is good if he forces defenses to respect him. He does not single handedly muck up the whole flow like Lou. Lou dominates the ball in almost all settings. And his effectiveness is less about hitting jumpers. When he's getting to the line and getting in the lane he is an asset- in moderate doses.

When Lou settles for jumpers it is usually bad. But yu can say the same for Jrue, Iguodala and Thad.

Yeah it doesn't really matter whether Turner starts or not, but Meeks was awful yesterday and Collins didn't play Turner one minute. So what is the explanation for that? He needs to get out there and play especially when the other guys are struggling.

Based on what Brian wrote above, there are a lot of things that happened last night that should be laid at Collins feet. When you miss that many mismatches - that's on the coach in my opinion

Yes, it's on Collins. Boston is a good, smart defensive team, so it's not simple to attack mismatches, but Collins had so many opportunities to call the right guy's number, and so many ways to do it. Just disappointing offensive game, imo.

My explanatoion is that he is in the doghouse. That Collins wants a winning culture... and eventually that means he will favor vets over some of the inconsistent young guys.

If the team had a Duhon I bet Jrue's minutes would be diminishing.

I suppose that would work if somehow LOU ended up in the doghouse all the times that he sucked or screwed up defensively or held the ball until the shot clock was under 5 and then took a stupid pump fake well defended shot.

The problem is that if I see a 'dog house' it seems that Collins has a bunch of different standards on who ends up there and why

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 13:37

The doghouse is guys he believes can not consistently help you win. Thus Speights, Kapono and Tuner are all in the doghouse. If he had 7 solid vets then those guys would be getting minutes right now. It just so happens that the vets on this team are marginal players.

The gist of this was something that I commented on in my game comments last night: they needed someone on the floor who could score against good defense. Brand did it a couple times against Davis, not at all sure he could have done it on Garnett. For a brief time last year, Speights showed he could do it, but he hasn't done well for whatever reason in his opportunities this year (I do think he would have been more of a threat than Battie down the stretch last night).

There's a good analogy for this in baseball: on a team with a lot of patient hitters who draw walks (the type of team that generally succeeds), there still needs to be somebody who's willing and able to swing away and get hits even off pitchers' pitches. The '93 Phillies were a great example of this, with Duncan and Incaviglia balancing the stars who got on base a lot (Dykstra, Kruk, Hollins).

So what you're saying is the sixers need more steroid users with kenny powers hair?

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 13:34

I can't think of two more different teams than the '93 Phils and the current Sixers.

The 93 phillies were the original 'idiots' - but that was more fact than a nickname

Watching Mitch Williams on MLB network is kind of sad

Iguodala has had his chances here, so many, and it's not working." What chances? He's had chances to be the primary scorer on a team bereft of talent, which a role he was never meant to play. You try to fit a square peg into a round hole for six years, then just throw the peg away instead of putting it in the square hole where it fits perfectly and finding something else to go into the round hole.

Brian getting into it with Kate Fagan in her chat! Good stuff!

I guessed it was 'our' brian but i wasn't sure.

kate seems to like you a lot, even wants you to do her research for her

kate seems to like you a lot, even wants you to do her research for her

I was one of her original "followers" when she started with the Inquirer, would comment a lot on her articles/blogs and give her some of my stats (hence the research reference). This was before philly.com got infested with Iguodala haters and I realized I would be spending 100% of my time there defending Iguodala. (That's part of the reason I "came" here, where I only have to spend 50% of my time defending Iguodala ;-).)

I've chatted with Kate a couple times when the Sixers come to Boston; she's very approachable with fans, in my experience. (Brian: you should try to get her on Sixers Beat, esp. after that chat!)

I liked her when she started, but I feel she's moved to the position of appealing to the masses and worried more about saying what they want to here, her chat today a huge reflectiion of that. Tom Moores the only credible guy left in my opinion

I can neither confirm nor deny my involvement in any alleged "chat session."

I'm going to go jump off a bridge or something now.

I will confirm my participation, but not my numerous aliases, I leave that for you to figure out

Lemme guess, "Kobe Bryant" and "ANdre Iguodal"?

Nope, sorry, wasn't me

You'll probably have to wait in line behind the people throwing Iguodala off it.

That chat was fascinating to read, seriously, it should be changed to 'kate fagans chat about how andre iguodala sucks and is responsible for the sixers ills'

Jason reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 14:00

featuring chitchat with JonKap

I"m sure she really hated added that comment calling her cute.

Not to be mean, but calling Kate Fagan cute is kind of a stretch, i mean she's not homely - but she's not cute

Jason reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 14:07

I don't think she's bad at all, google'd her and i think as long as she doesn't do stupid shit with her hair she's fine.


pictures 2 and 5 are lol.

Seriously, someone tell me if this sounds logical to you:

We know Andre Iguodala isn't a go-to scorer type guy. But the Sixers have tried to put him into that role. And he's had SOOOOOOOO many chances to become that guy and it's just clearly not working, so now he has to go because as fans, it's our fault that the team keeps failing. We're stubborn.

It doesn't sound logical to me, but then again it NEVER sounded logical to me to expect Andre Iguodal to be a player he's NEVER been in his basketball life just because his pay check went up. More money doesn't suddenly mean you're a different player. The llack of appreciation for what he can do is completely disheartening which is one of the reasons I think he should be traded, for his own good. It's almost Abreu bad.

Note to Kate - Stefanski didn't draft Iguodala

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:04

Please recall that trading Abreu didn't actually hurt the team in any way, except for the year he was traded and they possibly might have made the playoffs had he still been there. Except, that's hard to argue seeing as how they only made that run at making the playoffs once he got traded. In reality, he was overpaid and on the downside of his career, and Werth, eventually, was an upgrade. My only problem with the deal was that we got nothing for him.

The comparison to Abreu was not about trading him it was about the lack of appreciation from an idiot fan base, and if you think the phillies 'weren't worse' for trading their best bat, you're a fool

In fairness, Kate really does like Iguodala's game. She's said so herself multiple times. But I think the emails she gets and the comments she reads are 100-to-1 against Iguodala, esp. since the three most prolific commenters on philly.com range from strongly biased against him ("chuckw") to completely lunatic hatred of him ("JonKap" and "Oppressed"/"Nutron"). I love JonKap: Iguodala's performance in the World Championships went so far against his worldview that he (JonKap) started propagating outright falsehoods ("Iguodala performed so poorly that he was benched after two games") to console himself.

All this to say that like most politicians, Kate probably is influenced by her constituency to some degree ...

All this to say that like most politicians, Kate probably is influenced by her constituency to some degree ...

Then she shouldn't call herself a journalist. She should call herself a panderer

ELF reply to Brian on Dec 23 at 14:47

It would be the same logic to bring carmelo or stoudemire to a team and asks then to be playmakers for others and be the stoppers on the team..
Its not they forte, likes Iggy´s carring the offensive load on a team with very little offensive options..
So if thats the logic lets asks for Lou to rebound and defend and meeks to post up..
Dumb front office, really, really dumb..
But I think they are showcasing Iggy´s, trying to up his value, maybe to see if a smart front office get him and put him in position to suceed

Marty reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 14:08

I think Kate has it spot on - Igoudala is a great player being asked to do things he shouldn't be doing. The problem is, there aren't a lot of guys who can come in and take Igoudala's place as "the man" (if he's still here) without disrupting the chemistry of the team. ALL the guys look at Iggy as the leader, so if OJ Mayo comes here tomorrow demanding the ball and taking the "big" shots how's that going to play not only with Andre, but with the rest of the team? Even the reigning college player of the year is intimidated to "take over" and force the issue with Igoudala around! So unless you can find a guy who's already earned the respect in the league (my vote: Rip Hamilton) and can come in from day one and be the alpha-dog, it's going to be tough for anyone on the current roster to evolve into that and it's going to be even tougher to go get that guy without using Igoudala (save for Hamilton, IMO, who probably isn't even a true alpha-dog but the closest thing to it that we might actually be able to get). I agree with both Brian and Kate - the goal should be to find the right piece between Jrue and Igoudala, BUT if by the deadline you can't get it done, it might be better served to trade Igoudala for a guy that MIGHT be that alpha-dog or a long-term solution at the 4/5 spot.

I think Kate has it spot on - Igoudala is a great player being asked to do things he shouldn't be doing

Great, she has it spot on, 3 years late, but she's spot on.

sfw reply to Brian on Dec 23 at 14:28

Your sounding like a professional football coach who has a unique feitish. I hope I spelled that correctly.

You probably did spell most of those words correctly, however, you used the word unique inaccurately and poorly.

It's a shame our society is so uptight about sexual freedom and expression, everyone has fetishes...

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 14:46

agreed, but they deserve any flack they get for it when they're dumb enough to make a youtube account broadcasting it to the entire world. Especially a person in the public spotlight like that...

Actually, You're a fool

They don't deserve any flack for anything they do that has NOTHING TO DO WIHT THEIR JOB.

We live in a world where people who have certain jobs means other people think they have a right to comment on EVERYTHING in their life.

Most fetishes are not illegal, (some are) and most are much more disgusting than a foot fetish, it's not like he put a water sports or scat film up there, it's not like he is into necropedobestiality (a word of my own creation thank you)

Your attitude that he should take grief for it is the exact WRONG attitude. How does Rex Ryan having a foot fetish and making fetish films interfere with his ability to do his job. Why the hell is his personal life ANY of your business.

You are a symptom of the problem of the puritanical bull shit that runs under our society without anyone acknowledging it

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:05

I missed the name calling, thought maybe you had gone soft.

When you put something on youtube, it gives the public the right to scrutinize. The scrutiny just extends outside of the comment section because he's somewhat famous.

Its not like someone broke into his computer and uploaded the videos without his consent.

You can do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home, but I don't have any sympathy for someone that willingly uploads aspects of their personal life onto the internet. The basic premise for putting something like that on youtube is to receive some type of response from the public, guess what? he got it.

Then I think a press conference should be held about EVERY PERSON who puts something up on youtube. EVERY SINGLE ONE should be called to task for sharing their embarassing videos (not to mention, i'll bet you large amounts of money neithe rex nor his wife put that up on youtube - someone else got it and uploaded it like a douche - like something you'd probably do with someone elses personal stuff)

It's not 'disgusting', it's not any thing that has anything to do with his job. He has every right to tell people to mind their own fucking business and ASK HIM ABOUT HIS JOB.

I only call names when it's appropriate. You're a poor baiter, come up with something better than Monta Ellis if you wanna be a master baiter.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:16

I would say football coaches, like politicians and executives at big companies, have some obligation to cultivate their public image. At that point you're no longer just a private person.

And I'd humbly disagree with you, it's just our society's bull shit need to be nosey and voyeurs. Our entire society has a voyeuristic fetish but they'd all deny it.

Comparing a football coach who is responsible to ownership and the 53 players on his team to a CEO of a corporation who is responsible not only for his employees but the product that he sells to a majority of society not killing people or a politician who MAKES THE LAWS THAT GOVERN OUR LIVE is asinine.

And aside from that, unless they're breaking laws, what the CEO or the politician do in their bedroom is none of my (or your) business either. Again, it's the god damn puritianical hypocritical bull shit of this country.

The best part about it is that people marvel at certain things when it's so obvious.

All these people shocked when Michael Vick was leading the NFL in the pro bowl voting and being like 'how did that happen'.

Well idiots, it happened because the only thing our culture likes doing more than seeing rich folk knocked off their pedestals is a comeback story.

The hatred towards lebrons dies down as the heat play better basketball.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:23

Well, a coach of a football team isn't really just responsible to 53 players and an owner, he's also the public face of an organization that millions of people support. It's not like he's just the leader of a 53-employee company, the way you make it sound. By the same logic you could say, Vick's just one football player, playing for himself, what he does to dogs in his free time is no more important than what you or I do. Obviously not the case though.

Well no, what you did was over simplify.

By the way - football coaches do not own teams - just in case you misunderstood how the world works - they don't sign the checks - they are employees of the jets organization.

nd honestly, if the fans care they're fucking idiots.

Time and again it's been demonstrated that if your team WINS no one gives a shit what you do...i wish people would stop acting liek how a player or a coach acts fucking matters, if they win that's all anyone cares about, allthe other stuff is bull shit

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:29

The Eagles are worth 1 Billion. Professional football makes money the same way as other entertainment industries. We are not talking your local HS football coach. Coaches are public "celebrities" making millions for a company worth a Billion.

Sure society is messed up. But that is not a free pass. If you want to be a football coach and be low profile then coach at a D3 College. But Rex Ryan love attention- so you can't have it both ways.

I agree with your general take on society's ills and personally could care less about what floats his boat. But he is a public figure. Part of his multi-million dollar salary is because he took on such a high profile job.

The Eagles are not a publicly traded company. They do not make laws or provide products that in anyway make the world a better place.

The eagles are no different than a movie or tv studio in my opinion. They produce entertainment. Just entertainment that some people pin too much of their own self worth on and feel like they are a part of it when they truly aren't.

Dear fans

You are customers, you are dollar signs, you are nothing more. The franchise doesn't care about you really, they only care about how much you'll spend. Stop thinking otherwise :)

I don't believe the sixers care what I have to say, i'm just an opinionated shit head who likes to argue but I do prefer intelligent people to argue with and that's getting harder and harder to find

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:37

Actually not entirely true. The Eagles are a private company in partnership with the City/state running a team that is supposedly representing the city. When they do well it helps the local economy- big time. That is part of why they get access to public funds and anti-trust exemptions.

You don't have to be a lawyer to know this stuff...


Let's say for some inexplicable reason, I need a lawyer, and I hire you.

I don't really GIVE A CRAP what you do when you're not practicing law. It's none of my business. I ONLY CARE about your ability to do your job. Whatever fetish You (I'm sure) have and do in the privacy of your own home with your significant other (as long as it's not like a dog or a cat), I don't really give a damn as long as you do your job to the best of your ability.

Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:24

Sure, but if I were a managing partner of a firm I could damage my firm's image if I went around posting videos of my wife's feet. That's the correct comparison.

No actually it's not because we're arguing two different issues, but since we've established reading comprehension is beyond you (Hence the use of the word inexplicable) I won't bother to explain.

And i feel confident that you won't ever have to worry about the hypothetical you laid out above.

And again - you have no proof of WHO put that video up there now do you. What if someone hacked into ryans computer and posted the video to embarrass him?

The point is - that it SHOULDN"T MATTER - but our society is so fucked up it DOES matter

By the way - killing dogs is a crime - is having a foot fetish a crime

Seriously, what 3rd rate law school let you in?

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:34

The Jets are worth 1.17B. If the face of their business is part of a stupid scandal- possibly of his own doing- he is damaging the brand. Its a bigger deal when you are talking aboutr such a public figure and an entertainment industry.

It might not be his "fault" but its still part and parcel with getting the big bucks for taking on that job. Same as with politicians. You know if you run for high public office your personal life will be scrutinized. It might not be fair or just- but you know that's part of the deal when you sign up. There are big time benefits to having such high profile positions- especially in terms of ego and money. But there is no free lunch.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:27

I'm not a detective, but I suspect the user "Ihaveprettyfeet" belongs to the woman who makes multiple videos showing off her allegedly world class feet.She uploaded them on her own.

Whether its right or wrong, you lose your right to privacy when you're a public figure, and a public figure that publishes personal videos on one of the largest websites in the world deserves no sympathy.

I get it - you don't see that our society as a whole is broken. It's ok, I realize it's hard for you to think that hypothetically. Comparing an NFL coach to a CEO or a politician is something you understand (even if you didn't do it) and don't comprehend how grossly different it is (not even getting into the whole Publicly Traded Company concept)

You're just fucking Nelson Muntz like the majority of america. You wanna find someone to point at and say 'ha ha', when of course if your skeletons came out of your closet people would laugh at you and you'd have an entirely different tune.

Not to mention, again, that if we didn't live in such a fucking uptight country, a foot fetish wouldn't be something to be embarasssed about.

People being embarassed about shit like this is probably one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high in this country.

God you puritanical prudes

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 15:42

Society is flawed. But to call it "broken" based on your personal standards is no better than the far right social conservatives.

No one is saying we as individuals care a crap about what rex does (I had not even heard it till here.) It is simply that no one should shed a tear when a public figure- who loves media attention- gets burned by the less pleasant sides of the media.

Smarter people than me have argued that the salacious press is a bastion of the free press- because if public figures are free from scrutiny the we are all more open to corruption. Its like saying apples are bad becuase they have bruises on them.

johnrosz reply to tk76 on Dec 23 at 15:55

The entire concept of putting something like that on youtube is to make it accessible for public viewing...

People film themselves and broadcast it like that because they crave attention. Magee seems to hate voyeurs, yet completely ignores the fact that the Ryans are completely culpable in whatever voyeurism ensued from the public distribution of the content.

I checked out the chat transcript. I didn't see it as Fagan bashing Iguodala. She's basically saying that he most likely would welcome a trade and that the Sixers aren't going anywhere important as currently constituted so they might as well shake things up. I don't agree with her GM philsophy (I look to get back better value than I give in every trade unless a guy is a negative personality), but hey, she's a reporter, not a GM. It's interesting that she believes that team will trade Iguodala by the deadline.

I've got a better name than JR Smith - Rip Hamilton. Contract term is the same as Brand's (meaning both's money comes off the cap in two years), is younger than Ray Allen (who still looks pretty well), and can SHOOT. Detroit is a mess and have a young SG (Gordon) signed long-term. How much would it cost us to get Rip, I bet not much.

Doing a deal with Detroit right now is next to impossible. THe sale fell apart as they were accused of presenting bad numbers to pump up the value of the franchise (does that surprise anyone)?

The pistons need to move, Detroit is just a dying city.

Collins would probably love to have Rip. Trading Brand for him doesn't do anything for the team, though. The Sixers are better w/ Brand. So you're probably talking about trading expiring deals (Kapono + Songaila) and maybe a lesser piece like Speights. Which means you're tying up even more money through Brand's contract. Whatever.

I'm in a terrible mood today, don't pay any attention to any outbursts.

Wait, you're in a bad mood? Couldn't tell

Marty reply to Brian on Dec 23 at 14:14

Hopefully your terrible mood doesn't stem completely from the Sixers. I feel you buddy - it's tough right now, but I think it's that way because we all feel we're close. Maybe not close to a championship, but close to something we haven't been in a long time - a respectable, quality basketball team. We all might disagree on exactly how to get there, but who cares. Sans a ridiculous blowout loss to Chicago, these "overpaid professional athletes" are actually playing hard and giving a great effort night in and night out. The future of the NBA is completely in flux, so it's hard to blame the Sixers front office (this time) if they can't get some help personnel-wise, because you don't know what other clubs mandates are. Hang in there man, it's just sports...

For those of you stat haters - check out John Hollingers chat going on now

(or soon)


In Kate's chat she said that Hawes was "for sure" a much better offensive player than Dalembert. She couldn't be more wrong right? I can't find anything statistically that backs that claim up. If anything every stat i've looked at has Dalembert being a much better offensive player than Spawes. I'm starting to worry that Hawes will get a new contract here.

The sixers told her Spencer was better offensively, so she believes that Spencer is better offensively

Man, not only do you guys have to deal with all the sixer nonsense, your only sports radio is atrocious (i've been trying to listen to 97.5 today to see if it's as bad as i remember) and it's 38 degrees out there.

Gotta suck ;)

My thought would be that talking about what the Sixers need is backwards. We don't need to add pieces like Camby or J.R. Smith that would help us get trapped in perpetual 48-50 win mediocrity. This roster will never, ever, ever win a championship with Iguodala as its best player, and I'd say there's a 95% chance that Holiday will never be good enough that you can win with him as your best player either. And about a 99% chance of the same for Turner. This isn't to say that Iguodala and Holiday aren't very good players, but simply that they're not superstar-good. What the team needs is a James, Durant, Kobe, Dwight Howard, etc. and everything we do ought to be geared towards drafting or signing such a player. Adding a gunner here and a center there takes you farther away from drafting a star and probably from signing one.

You do realize that only one of the players you listed has actually won a championship, right?

Also, your argument is at odds with itself. If they need to get this imaginary star via draft, then I guess you move iguodala to get worse. If you want to draw a free agent, then I don't see how gutting your team makes you a more legitimate landing spot. When was the last time a star chose a team with little to no talent.

Draft, you go for losses. Free agent, you go for wins.

Horrible and possibly misleading Turner stat of the day:

ET plays 24+ minutes the team is 2-10
ET plays less the team is 9-7
ET plays less than 15 minutes the team is 4-2

Note: this is an only a correlation, so does prove causation.

deepsixersuede on Dec 23 at 19:25

I know this may be considered blasphemy, but why not let Jrue move to s.g. and become our #1 scorer? He is a better spot up shooter than Evan, seems to have more of a scorers mentality and most of all, lets find out who the better p.g. is between the two. Maybe we strike lightning in the bottle and improve our scoring at 2 positions.

I agree with running more sets with ET @ the 1 as i'm hoping having the ball in his hand gets him back int the game. I also don't think that Jrue needs to be the #1 scoring option if he was the sg, he could simply serve to stretch the floor and be effective. If the team is going to try and make a playoff run i'd much rather the team do it with both ET and Jrue on the floor playing starter minutes or else i don't see what the benefit is.

Jrue plays off the ball more than I'd like when Lou is in the game with him, so I don't see why they couldn't try it out with Turner at the point instead.

Should the Sixers Buy out Lou williams or trade him for anything that doesn't take on extra years? Lou is interrupting the progress of both our young guards which is isn't worth it when you consider how little he brings to the team.

Some ideas of contracts that are equal
Zaza Pachulia has similar contract to lou.
Desagnia Diop and Matt Carrol of cCharlotte have close deals to lou.
Charlie Bell from GSW, gets lou off our hands and has one less year.

Even if no team wanted lou i still think buying him out (or permanently benching) would be better than him getting minutes on this team.

They could just - you know - not play lou - this asinine - he's paid so we should play him thing must stop in all sports - it's a sunk cost - just pay it and make him inactive.

As for buying him out - that usually doesn't happen on multi year deals.

I was just futzing around with the trade machine because the solution to Brians dilemma is on the orlando magic - but Redick is a BYC so i think it might be impossible to make it work :)

deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 21:04

It cracks me up when Redick rumors are on Hoopshype, and the source doesn't point that out [ BYC] saying so and so makes equal money.

I kept futzing with the numbers, but I think since he's BYC and the sixers are over - that the trades are impossible. Can only take on half his salary in Orlando but the sixers have to be with in 125% :)

Didn't know redick made so much money (7 million dollar salary) when i picked up the laptop to make it possible, but watching him work against the spurs, give the effort on both ends and his sweet shooting motion, I think he's exactly 'the guy' that the sixers need, and honestly, if he wasn't base year - i think with all the guards they have - he'd be gettable -

Of course it started with the premise that when Dwight Howard gets two fouls ryan anderson comes in and i put battie in as the key piece, then just couldn't massage the pieces (kapono, songaila etc...expirings, thad speights cause of salaries) and then I realized (i'm exhausted) that it might be mathematically impossible due to his BYC

deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 23 at 21:12

John, question; with Detroit in limbo with its ownership situation what do they consider good value in a trade? Does dumping a long term deal [B.Gordon] for a young asset [Turner] and an expiring [Songalia] make sense and would they pull the trigger?

Well I've made known that I think Detroit is in a horrible position off the court. Dying city, crappy ownership (they lied in the prospectus, which means the next potential owner will probably make them jump through numerous accounting hoops), and a bunch of awful contracts with a GM who still gets credit for the old days and doesn't seem capable of admititng his mistakes (trading away guys he should have)

I'm not a huge ben gordon fan, I think he's a good bench guy not a starter (i believe redick could start here and gordon wouldn't). I think he's a lou williams improvement but not a starter, and paid too much (his career low per this year is 12.9, below league 'average' and below louis williams)

I don't think he improves the sixers enough for the money he makes - (check out his contract http://www.storytellerscontracts.com/)

However, for Detroit it TOTALLY makes sense to make a deal like that, they aren't good, Dumars needs to start cleaning up his mistakes, and that would be a gift offer for Gordons contract considering he's having a career worst season right now. But I don't know that Dumars MAKES the deal, as he won't admit his mistakes.

I also don't think Comcast makes that deal by the way, purely because of luxury tax issues, Redick isn't signed as long or for as much.

A deal like that you suggested, to me, is a gift to the pisons.

If you believe the talk, Rip's the name Detroit is most likely moving

deepsixersuede reply to Jason on Dec 23 at 21:01

I agree with your premise but think about Brian's current topic; Lou is the one guy here that should be an end of game threat, along with Spieghts, if he ever gets it. The Lou deal I through out this summer was straight up for Maxiel, though he has regressed at a young age, 27, this year.

Lou isn't an end of game threat. He has one move and the league is on to it

tk76 reply to Jason on Dec 23 at 22:11

Man, people really hate Lou around here.

The guy has positive value. I'm sure plenrty of teams would take him for an expiring or a 2nd rounder. No need to take back long term garbage.

Lou has a limited but somewhat rare skill set. he would be a real asset on a team like Orlando, although less so now that they have Arenas.

Are you watching the magic carve up the spurs (on the 2nd half of a back to back) tonight? Did you see how good Arenas looks? Lou couldn't do that against anyone...

I think with a lock out coming and the fungibility of what Lou can do (oh eddie house) that his value really isn't much because of the length of his contract, but then again, my feelings on lou are pretty clear in general :)

Jason reply to tk76 on Dec 23 at 22:48

The problem with lou is that his skill set is completely unnecessary on this team. Lou isn't an off the ball type of player and currently has the highest Usage rate on the sixers (27 USG% , Jrue's is only 21.7% and ETs is ~16%) Lou is taking away possessions from our two youngest players that have an upside of filling a niche role that isn't necessary for the way this team is built. I also don't know how much value lou has in this league, there is currently an abundance of point guards that need the ball along w/ shooting guards that thrive with the ball in their hand and Lou would just take away possessions from them, or Lou will be ineffective making him not trade worthy. The list of teams that i came up with that could use him was NYK/GSW because of their systems (I think, I could be wrong in all honestly) and the rest are made up of stretches in the sense "Lou could be a help there I due to the fact that X team doesn't have any ball dominant players" But these teams wouldn't become contenders by adding lou so what's the point for them to do it?

I don't believe that any contender would ever want Lou Williams on their basketball team because he's a ball stopper who relies on getting to the free throw line and what team would want to rely on Lou Williams getting to the line in an important playoff game?

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