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31-Game Checkup

They do have an opportunity to win some games here, especially if they get one of the next three.

Collins had a couple of days to talk about the three-point defense, wouldn't be surprised by a much better effort in that department tomorrow night. Phoenix is a mess right now too. Then again, if they play like they did last night and overhelp too much, Nash will torch them.

I went 4-5... See them dropping one of those 4 easier games towards the end just because... along with a screwup in either New Orleans or Washington.

Great post to put the season in simple perspective. Have to think Hawes was fluking for that short time-period, which is scary considering the already weak offensive numbers were boosted by those performances.

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Court_visioN on Dec 29 at 3:24
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i just went back and watched the tape of Evan Turner vs. the Miami Heat on opening night. Looks like a completely different player. Much more aggressive and assertive offensively. The defense is still there for the most part but he's become way too passive as the season has progressed. I'm glad he's going back and watching tape of his college days and I think he should check out the Heat game as well because if he plays like that the Sixers have a real asset.

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Court_visioN reply to Court_visioN on Dec 29 at 3:25
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i said 4-5 btw. I see them blowing one of the games you had a W for. Probably Indiana.

I went optimistically with 6-3, even though i know that the chance of that happening isn't great.

Losses @LAL, @NOH, @DET. Somehow they are playing well at home this season and have relatively weak opponents (they come back with a vengeance against Chicago and Washington). A win on the road @PHO who is a mess right now.

I voted for 4-5.

Interesting fact I remember from one of the Sixers broadcasts: after this road trip is over, the Sixers play 30 out of 41 remaining games (give or take) at home.

Lol that is so wrong!!!

After the road trip they have 27 home games and 21 road games left, which is still more home games than any other team at that point (there are two teams with less home games atm)

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deepsixersuede on Dec 29 at 9:31
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I went 5-4 but Iggy being out changes that bigtime.

Off topic question; Would it be legal and would Orlando consider an Elton for J.Richardson trade where we buy out Richardson and he goes back to Orlando? Money seems no object to them but the league probably has rules against it.

i went with 3 wins but 4 is just as likely. The Sixers are not the level of team that can routinely beat lesser teams, so I don't see how they navigate this easy stretch unscathed.

In the reading list there's a link to a rumor that JaVale McGee might be available. I'd probably trade just about anyone on the roster outside of Jrue and Iguodala for him. I'd also trade a first round pick this upcoming summer.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 10:53
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Don't you get the feeling Washington put his name out there to scare him straight? He is immature but has a lot of value. Blatch is a whole other story.

Probably. Doesn't mean it isn't worth a phone call.

Lou and an unprotected first-round pick for McGee and Yi.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 11:05
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Do you think they would listen if Turner was mentioned?

Tou guys put a lot more value on McGee than I do.

Low usage, good rebounder, very good shot blocking athletic big. Pretty much exactly what this team needs at the five, imo.

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Rob_STC reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 11:27
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Total agreement there on McGee. Was good enought to get a look on team USA this summer. If Rod could pull that off I would give him props.I like the trade idea.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 11:41
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Very go O-Board numbers. Unspectacular D-reb. On a terrible team. Also not sure he has the right make-up to reach his ceiling.

Worried he is one of those guys who looks good on a horrible team.

actually, make that top-three protected for this season only. It would blow if the sixers just missed the playoffs and somehow won the lottery only to have given up the pick.

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Joe reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 11:24
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Does Jrue have more value than McGee?

PGs aren't a dime a dozen. Neither are legitimate NBA centers. McGee has the higher ceiling probably while being the more productive player thusfar this year.

In a vacuum, McGee probably should have had more value before the nightclub thing.

This is somewhat a devil's advocate thing I'm doing.

To me, Jrue has more value. I see McGee as being pretty limited on one end of the floor, without much of a ceiling offensively either.

Jrue is the main reason why I think a guy like McGee is worthwhile on this team. An athletic big who can finish on the inside is going to get a ton of easy looks from Jrue and Iguodala, for that matter.

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Joe reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 11:36
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McGee does have a better PER, WinsProduced48, WinShares48 and overall stacks up just plain better to other centers than Jrue does to other guards statistically.

Again, I'm not sure where I stand, but I do KNOW I often overvalue players on my team because it is natural to do so.

And I do think I would trade a pretty high pick for McGee. I'd probably do this year unprotected due to the extenuating circumstances of the CBA.

This is mostly just my personal feeling, but I think a well-rounded PG is more valuable to a team than a big like McGee. If you're talking about the best PG vs. the best big, then the advantage goes to the big because pretty much anyone can just get the ball to him in the post and he's going to be effective on the offensive end. But when you're talking about a guy like McGee, he's only going to be as good offensively as your playmakers make him. You're also taking on faith that his raw athleticism will translate into team defense in a better defensive system, with a better defensive coach and better defensive teammates on the floor. Which I think is a decently safe gamble, but it's still a gamble. He could just be a dunderhead with amazing size and athleticism who doesn't get much better than he is right now.

As for how Jrue stacks up with other PGs in the league, he's 20-years-old, and showing good progression pretty much across the board in his second season with a 50% increase in his minutes and much, much more responsibility. I think you may be placing his ceiling a bit too low.

McGee must be another Sammy........ Upstairs!

RE: JaVale McGee;

I agree with the premise that anyone is expendable to get a young post presence, but I think there is an element to the timing of the trade. Of course, if he is allegedly only available right now, you might have to pull the trigger. On the other hand, it makes us a serviceable 5-8 seed in the East which really gets us nowhere. If adding McGee is another way of accumulating talent that can ultimately defend and guard the paint, its a win, on the other hand you lose value on your draft pick. We're still stuck with the ceiling of Iguodala and Brand, and therein lies the great qualifier to all trade rumors.

The assumption here is that they aren't going to turn around and trade Iguodala for garbage. I'm pretty sure that's a safe assumption either way at this point. That's also why I'd be fine w/ trading this year's #1 pick to get McGee. It's going to be a pick in the teens, most likely, unless they do something to make them dramatically worse very soon.

You guys are massively overvaluing McGee. He is a nice young center but don't get too carried away with his decent numbers on one of the worst teams in the league. McGee IMO is a poor man's Dalembert at best. He is worth a call, but Jrue, Iguodala and Turner should not be even mentioned in the discussion and Young probably has equal value (i'd only trade him because of his contract)... You don't trade a first rounder for him either unless it is top 10 protected.

I'd say the odds of getting a player as good as McGee in this year's draft are EXTREMELY slim. And they're extremely slim even before you factor in some guys staying in school because of the looming lockout.

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T McL reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 12:12
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Maybe I should have looked at this before I posted

I absolutely agree with the assessment that this years draft will be terrible. If it's this years pick i don't have a problem with it, but if it's 2012 or beyond you have to have a at least top 10 protection.

If McGee can play good on the ball post D, he is worth the protected first rounder. There's no one in the draft that I know about who has his tools for center (unless P. Jones drastically changes his game), and with the potential lockout who even knows what happens with this draft.

Nope

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Ryan F reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 12:52
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Not sure how I would feel about it either, but I like the thought of Mcgee paired with Jrue. I don't see anyone else on our team that Washington would actually want.

I like the idea of Jrue with McGee as well, but I don't want to give up Iguodala for him per se - because it's a much worse trade if you have to give up Iguodala.

If you're adding McGee to the current roster and giving up non contributory pieces/future picks that's different then giving up your best player.

By the way, sources tell ESPN Camby will retire if traded to a mediocre/rebuilding team. I'd say that includes us.

I'd trade Iguodala for McGee (for the sake of rebuilding, not because I think there's any semblance of equal value there, obviously). Don't think I'd trade Jrue for McGee, although I only see him becoming a top 10 point guard at his peak.

If contender is his only criteria, he should retire right now instead of playing for that sinking ship in Portland.

The rumor expands and says

He likes living in Portland
He'd also accept a trade to Houston cause he lives in Houston

So Camby is willing to give up all that money huh?

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deepsixersuede on Dec 29 at 13:47
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If you operate under two assumptions, one that Washington doesn't want to trade him and two, that Collins wanted a big on draft night, how does that affect what we would be willing to trade?

I'm not sure either of those assumptions is accurate, but if they are, then you'd think we'd be willing to overpay if Thorn feels the same way Collins hypothetically does. And they both think McGee is a long-term fit at the five.

Well, I don't work for the sixers, but it wouldn't affect what I'd be willing to pay for the guy in the least.

All these rumors seem to spiral out of the fight mcgee and blatche had, and I still think Blatche is the one they want to get rid of more, but less teams want him.

McGee has value, but giving up a key piece of the current roster that contributes to get him is not a good idea. DOn't rob peter to pay paul. If you can keep what you got in terms of contribution, go get him.

Hell they can have spawes if they want em

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 14:08
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I was thinking Turner, Spieghts and Hawes for McGee and Hinrich. None are contributing pieces now and Washington is in total rebuild where that trade may make us a 5 seed.

Does that trade give the sixers a first round playoff win, it's a lot (and I'm not willing to give up on Turner yet).

I like Hinrich, always liked Hinrich, and think he'd start at the 2 on this roster, but I also think of him as a solid defender, though that might just be perception.

Turner
Hinrich
Iguodala
Brand
McGee

Bench depth doesn't really take a hit since Collins hates Speights and Turner right now.

I hate giving up on Speights, but that's cause i"m a big fan

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 14:18
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I actually think McGee works with Spieghts but I think we have to give to get. They have a young athletic one and five, something we could of had with Favors and Jrue so breaking that up will have to reap them some rewards.

If Hinrich is considered to have 4 or 5 good years left by our coach and g.m. I give Turner up for him, and I like Turner also.

Better starting center, lose your best bench player...is it worth it?

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 14:28
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Turner for McGee? What? What is going on here...

Turner isn't contributing now, Mcgee would and so would Hinrich (and i'm very pro kirk hinrich)

These are both trades I'd consider and consider fair trades to both teams, not sure either team would make them, not sure this mcgee rumor is even accurate.

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 14:33
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I don't know, as bas as Turner has been I can't give up on the number 2 pick for a project center and a nice role player.

They still wouldn't win a round in the playoffs, although it would be interesting to see what Jrue could do with an athletic center that can finish a lob with the best of them.

They still wouldn't win a round in the playoffs,

I know you're right

But if Turner is a key component of the future and isn't progressing (obviously) as fast as hoped, then don't you think moving Igudoala is the thing to do because the future core is going to take a while to get to the peak. Move Iguodala and Brand because you need to start building around Holiday / Turner (if you still believe in him) and assmebling the right parts for htat

At the beginning of the year, I was down with this strategy. Even I'm starting to question that, now.

It sucks but that's the decision point I believe the sixers are at now. Stasis just isn't a viable option (in my opinion). Capped out, rostered, out, few assets, mediocre draft with a mediocre draft pick (most likely), the time has come too quickly to decide which direction you want to go and commit to that direction.

This is why Thorn was hired, this is why they hired collins as the coach, to decide if Turner is the guy and if not then to try and figure out how to improve the roster you have now to be more competitive.

Why are you questioning that now? Because Collins has us playing good defense and we've had some nice wins?

Or possibly it has something to do with what Turner has produced this year.

Hey Derek

You once 'disproved' the Larry Brown hates rookies thing. Have yo ulooked at Doug Collins and rookies?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 17:03
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Wait, so we shouldn't tank because our rookie hasn't been good? Seems like a reason to tank all the more.

I don't believe I said that and I don't think Derek was implying that either.

I had hoped that Turner would start off well and make trading Iguodala a more 'viable' direction because we had two key pieces that were young and could grow together. Turner hasn't done that yet.

What I said is that I believe Thorn and Collins are at a fork in the road - now and they have to pick a direction. If they choose turner - you move Iguodala - if they choose igoudala - use Turner to get pieces that can help now

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 14:56
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If they get any indication that Brand is moveable, sure. I still don't see that happening though.

And Gilbert Arenas was unmoveable.

Elton Brand is playing excellent basketball right now, he could help many teams in need of a PF - just need to find a team that needs a PF :)

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 15:52
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I've always felt that the only team crazy enough to take on Brand might be Dallas

There are more teams out there other than the Mavs willing to spend if they think they can win.

The Mavs however don't need Brand. The bigger problem is that I don't see a contender that Brand is a good landing spot for.

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:04
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they don't need Brand, but they might be willing to take him if they feel they need Iguodala to push them over the top. If Cuban feels the Lakers are vulnerable, maybe he puts all his chips on the table in an effort to get a ring with that aging roster

The money in those two contracts is astronomical in terms of trade value - where do the mavs find matching salary to bring back that doesn't suck. The Mavs don't have a lot of useful trade assets that they'd part with too do they?

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:25
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I think Dirk being a 7 footer allows Brand to work in Dallas as much as Haywood seems to be. A trade that works is Brand for Haywood, Stevenson [expiring] and a TRADE EX. from M.Carroll [4 mill.]. Is Dallas better with a move like that?

No

Because it ignores the fact that Tyson Chandler is having a pretty damn good season in Dallas and Haywood is an afterthought

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:35
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I really just don't see many teams being interested in taking on Brands contract. Can you think of any? I can't...

I think a team that needs a PF to put them closer to a title yes needs Brand, and much like Dalembert the 'bad contract' meme needs to stop. He's playing quite well and is no less valuable than Gilbert Arenas (the wiz at least saved money on that deal)

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:48
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Maybe,its still a pretty large salary for a team to take on though. I think Brandon Roy has taken over the dubious honor of "worst contract in the NBA"

That contract is atrocious and uninsured :)

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:36
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I don't mean starting Brand, but rotating him off the bench and giving Chandler a few less minutes. Brand and Nowitzki could play together against a lot of teams for 20 minutes a game.

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:32
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well of course the Sixers would get a giant back of crap back, if its even possible. They have something like 11 mil in trade exceptions, whats the rule on trading them? I'm not really familiar with how that'd work. Some combo of Stevenson, Butler, and Cardinals expirings along with the trade exceptions looks close to workable to me.

I don't know, I try not to mess with the trade machine often, not the biggest fan

I never really understand the rules for trading trade exceptions. I think you can't trade them in combo with anything else?

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:46
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if thats the case, then I think you're right... The Dallas trade would be pretty much impossible, the Sixers would end up getting garbage contracts in return, which I don't really think they'd want.

I thought there was talk of Dallas taking on Brand with Iggy at the deadline last year, only reason I brought it up.

There was bluster, but I don't think any of it was real, and the Mavs seem 'better' than they were last year as well, much more serious as contenders, one of the best records in the league so do they need a shake up really?

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 16:51
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Iguodala would be a pretty nice player in that offense. Iggy would be a tremendous upgrade over Butler, I think they brought Butler in hoping he could provide some of the same contributions that Iguodala could bring to them right now. I think he'd be able to do what he does best in Dallas. Depends on whether or not they feel it would put them over the top.

If Dallas wants Iguodala they better find a 3rd team to give the sixers something worthwhile.'

Memphis maybe -

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 17:13
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Saw that Minny is pursuing OJ Mayo pretty hard. That'd be something to consider, wouldn't it? He's a guy that was way overhyped but he's not a bad player, change of scenery might serve him well.

I think Memphis fracked him up this year and yeah I was thinking Mayo when I said Memphis (the same report that said the Griz wanted mayo indicated that the knicks wouldn't give up anthony randolph for telfair, which makes no sense to me since randolph just seems to suck everywhere he goes).

The problem is (and yes I tried it) is that the Mavs don't have a lot of assets to work in a deal in which they are taking on a 12 million dollar player.

Trade Thad for Mayo straight up though :)

Vince Carter is rumored to make his Suns debut tonight

What do you guys think of giving up Thad for Mcgee? I like it because i wouldn't want to give both of them extensions and I prefer McGee over Thad. I know it wouldn't benefit us as much this year but i still think this team has to be careful long term about committing too much cap space on players that aren't going to be starters.

So the package built around Turner for Hinrich and McGee. This is the rotation the Sixers would be left with, most likely:

Jrue
Hinrich
Iguodala
Brand
McGee

Thad
Lou
Meeks

That's better than what they have now, on both ends. Of course, you're giving up on Turner after only 692 minutes of action. This group would be together for the rest of this season, then a decision needs to be made on Thad (restricted free agent).

After next season, you'd have to make a decision on McGee (restricted free agent), and you'd have both Hinrich and Nocioni as expiring contracts. Lou is also able to opt out after next season, and I wouldn't be surprised if he did. He's making MLE-level money on this contract, he can probably get the same for 5 more years from someone else if he opts out. Then the following year Brand comes off the books.

I don't know. I'd have a hard time pulling the trigger on a Turner trade this early in his rookie season. Forget about what he might become, there's a very high chance that his value will never be lower than it is right now. I do think the roster you're left with after the trade is much better over the next 130 or so games, though.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Dec 29 at 16:01
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Can't give up on Turner already. I don't think McGee is a bad prospect, but you could probably nab him without giving up the 2nd pick. I'd gladly give up an unprotected first in the upcoming draft. My guess is they'll end up taking a project big man anyway,assuming they finish in the 10-12 range. That project big likely won't be better than McGee..

I don't quite get the "I don't want to give up Turner for a project big" argument; Turner's a project guard. Who's shown way less potential than McGee has.

Comparing Apples and Oranges almost always leads to faulty results.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4480/gamelog;_ylt=AhTT3edh_aT8.Ov_s74VkfXdPaB4?year=2008

You're looking at a 3rd year player on a team that played him a lot versus a rookie who might or might not be 'blocked' and the season isn't half way over.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Dec 29 at 17:01
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Yeah, he was a better rookie. And even then clearly a freak athlete, which Turner will never be.


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