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Sixers Around the Web - Jan. 16

DeMarcus Cousins Update!

Cousins used only 15 possessions (8 shots, 8 free throws, 3 turnovers) to score 14 points in 19 stellar minutes of action. He also committed 4 personal fouls, though I'm sure Tray will tell you they don't count for some obscure reason.

Here's a fun stat for you. Cousins has played exactly 5 games this season where his foul + turnover total wasn't 5 or more.

Court_visioN on Jan 16 at 1:58

man. i know hawes has an awkward jumpshot just watching him but that photo really brings out how weird his form is. unless he was adjusting his shot to prevent earl boykins from blocking him - which is laughable in it of itself.

Oh come on, that was his CLUTCH jumper to tie the game up I think. Yeah, he was 1 for 8, but he makes them when it counts.

Hawes for Late Game Closer '11

So playoffs or bust. Sounds like the new boss is just like the old boss. I guess they are back to going uptown.

Column: Sixers' late-game struggles aren't surprising:


A question for a slow day:

If you could go back and change a front office decision made in the past year what would it be?

Some possibilities:

-Trade at last year's deadline
-Nix Sam trade (having Sam as an expiring right now sure sounds appealing.)
-Change or trade the draft pick
-Trade Iguodala last summer either befoer or after th draft
-Coaching deceion

I don't think Sam has the value you think he does - all those TPE's and expiring contracts this year, rumors indicate that the Kings might just be buying him out. I stilil wish Sam was here since they seem to be playing to win instead of development and Sam's a better option than Hawes, plus Nocioni wouldn't be here.

I mean I can see the merits in all of them, but I don't know which would mean all that much more in the long term health of the franchise.

Contrary to Brians opinion of him or Trays opinion of him I might have picked Cousins or Favors instead, but that hindsight thing is a bitch

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 12:59

You are right that an expiring in itself is not worth that much right now.

But looker deeper at the Sixers cap situation, and it would have more value. As of right now the Sixers need to let Kapono and Dongalia expire since they have a ton of money committed to next year. But if you had Sam instead of Hawes/Nocioni, then the team would be in a position to actually take on long term salary in a trade.

So instead of taking on Nocioni's 7M maybe they could have actually been part of a trade that brought in a quality player on a longer term deal.

But I don't think trading Sam would have been the right thing to do anyway. My desire the whole time was to negotiate a (reasonable) extension if possible with sam - 9 mil per for 3 years or something like that as he filled a position that is quite hard to fill in the NBA

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 13:04

Sam wanted out of Philly. I don't think he would have agreed to an extension.

But I'm only basing this from media reports, so I could be wrong.

Sam also was a locker room cancer - remember?

Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 18:20

i don't remember what happened when sam was traded, does anybody know if any of the Sixers players when asked about the trade said something like "we went through a lot of wars with Sam and it's tough to let him go but......" or even "it's gonna be a lot harder to play defense without sam"? i don't remember anybody saying anything like that which probably suggests he didn't really get along with the players in the locker room.

deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Jan 16 at 12:23

I wonder if we kept Sam and drafted Cousins or Favors and Collins got Sam to reupp how a weakness would of become a major strength and than this team may have become a shooter at the s.g. spot away from contending.

Could Cousins play the 4 next to Sam? Sorta like putting A.Jefferson next to him.

Jason reply to tk76 on Jan 16 at 12:35

I'd keep the 2nd rounder instead of meeks. I'd probably hire a different coach in all honesty. I don't think that Collins is very beneficial for Jrue/Turner. Jrue's progression imo is not tied in with collins coaching. What has collins done to set Jrue up for success?

I'd fire Stefanski, not get thorn. I'd rather go with someone that is untested but has a plan for the future. I don't know what thorn has planned.

I'd take Favors over Turner, no question.

I'd trade Iguodala if that Batum/Pryzbilla trade offer was real, I'm still skeptical of the legitimacy of that trade offer.Overall I'm glad Iguodala wasn't sent out for expiring contracts.

One change? It'd be the Sam trade. The team would be much better on the floor and they'd be much better off financially as well.

Oh come on - you'd miss the mullet - you know it

shawn alexander reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 13:19

- sign dasean butler before another team gets him
-trade iggy for a young big and some draft picks
-draft jordan hamilton.....john jenkins...corey fisher
-sign keith benson and develop him because he could be a superstar
-trade Lou for draft picks
-trade elton brand for anything of value....a 3pt shooter with a bad contract or something...ANYTHING

Jason reply to tk76 on Jan 16 at 14:32

Rethinking this. The biggest mistake was not buying Brand out pre season. Without Brand this team would be much worse and closer to a top pick, and it would be clear what direction the team needed to go in.

What in gods name makes you think Brand would have accepted a buy out with so much time left in his contract or that Comcast would buy him out?

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 14:38

Just because it has no plausibility in happening, doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake.

Brands resurgence is really the icing on the cake for him. He failed in delivering what we wanted from him when we needed it. Now he's costing the sixers draft picks and giving us mediocre seasons which we know doesn't help a team in the long term.

Brand was injured for most of his first season, and probably recovering for most of his second season playing for an idiot coach who threw him under the bus.

Has the brand contract not panned out - of course it hasn't - but it's not brands fault per se - he's given all he can.

Now - signing him when your roster was such a mess - that's another question - giving a guy his age such a long deal coming off his first major injury in his career - maybe - but Brand has given all he could - it's not his fault the sixers signed him

And there was no way he was accepting a buyout for less than close to the ful value of his contract and comcast wouldn't swallow a cost like that all at once - it's bad business - ESPECIALLY with the prospect of a new CBA possibly reducing Brands cost period

philly2cali reply to tk76 on Jan 16 at 16:49

If I was GM. I would change a lot almost blow up the bring in a rebounder. Some defense and develop talent while still being competitive. Its the only way to develop a winning mindset and not tank it.

-I would of trade to elton brand to the warriors and iggy to the trailblazers. Elton has played his way into being trade-able http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=459vn6z.....I mean it makes sense for all sides. I would take it straight up jusy to Brand's contract off the books but I'd REALLY want some picks at least a 2nd rounder

-I said it sign Da'sean Butler...He was in the top pick talk before he injured his ACL. 12-18 month recovery then full strength. Another competitor and game winner. He took West Virginia to that tournament. He was their everything

-Try and pull off 2 trades for picks....kapono maybe meeks,only because john jenkins is coming out next year and he is a way better shooter and defender than meeks

-I'd draft Trey Thompkins in the 1st round.Keith Benson and John Jenkins....and if possible spend on Corey Fisher then trade for Lou Williams

That team would compete for a long time and when Noci, Camby come off the books. We got a some cap room to fill a need because things never work out perfect but that the best the they can do for themselves right now. It make "basketball Sense"

mgfields on Jan 16 at 11:59

Read a Charley Rosen column where he called Hawes "Mr Softee".

Philly2Cali reply to mgfields on Jan 16 at 17:11

If Thorn was any good he was trade Hawes to the Cavs for javario Moon. Of course He's have to trade Iggy first. I'd like Javario coming off the bench

I can't believe I'm posting this, but could Andre Iguodala learn something from Baron Davis?


Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 13:42

If anything, it should be Elton Brand that has something to learn from Baron Davis. Iggy is just 27 (end of month).

Well no, I don't believe so. If you read the whole article, the gist of what Davis did is concede the future and decide the best thing for him to do is facilitate the growth of Gordon and Griffin at the cost of his own numbers, focus in the offense.

Elton Brand has not been the focus of this offense (rightly or wrongly) his entire time in Philadelphia. If you only see this as an age thing for what Davis did, I believe you miss the point. It was an ego thing, and it would be up to Iguodala and the sixers to make that kind of decision work as Iguodala (rightly or wrongly) has been perceived as the 'star' and focus of the organization on the floor.

Elton Brand is not Baron Davis, in fact I sometime think Brand is too passive, when things work in a game and the sixers go away from it I'd like to see the veteran step up and say give me the ball...

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 13:54

good point. I still think it's tough to expect Iguodala to learn from Baron Davis in this situation though. It's an entirely different situation for Iguodala than it is for Baron Davis.

Both Eric Gordon and Blake Griffin are better offensively than Baron Davis, he should be conceding not just for their future. Iguodala is still better than Turner, he should concede to Jrue, but let's be honest if Iguodala takes a backseat on offense, then the ball goes to Lou.

What I took from it has nothing to do with who is better, because Baron Davis probably thinks he is better still, what I saw was a guy coming to terms with the reality of the roster and future of his team and deciding how best to help the long term success of his roster (and you can't deny that since that meeting the Clips have been better - big test today with 'home' game against the lakers - should be national but ABC still not doing their sunday games cause of the NFL I guess). Whether or not Turner is better than Iguodala NOW - for the franchise and team to succeed Turner has to become better than Iguodala at certain things - and the sooner that starts the better.

Of course it's not the only change needed - Lou Williams would have to focus on his rapping career more

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 14:02

But it doesn't benefit Iguodala at all to help the sixers future. He can ask for a trade, he can work his way out of town and get himself into a better situation. If you're iguodala why would you take a step back with this team just to help them 2-3 years down the line when you're not in your prime?

That is the main difference between BDiddy and Iggy. One is on the tail end of their career. The other is still in their prime.

Well again, I think you're seeing it wrong, and if you don't think being a team player and accepting a reduced well helps his trade value - you're wrong. The common theme is that Iguodala would thrive as a second or third 'banana' on a team, so if he accepts that role in Philadelphia who says he doesn't thrive doing it here and thus increase his trade value (if you seem to think that he's on his way out, I don't)

And Baron Davis isn't on his way out in LA - cause no one wants his contract (at this time)

Sometimes doing what's best for the team but not best for you actually helps you out.

Being selfless is not a bad quality

And everyone has an ego, in the NBA players all have egos, even the worst NBA player is probably better than about 95% of the worlds basketball players

eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 14:04

But from conversations last year on here, I thought Iguodala didn't have an ego?

At least I've always claimed he did.

johnrosz reply to eddies' heady's on Jan 16 at 16:54

is Magee finally conceding that Iggy has a HUGE ego...I'm stunned

Maybe that the Iggy elbow rubbed him the wrong way?

Nope, but I might be saying that you should ask someone to teach you reading comprehension

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 17:59

Eh,I really didn't read your post, you caught me

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 16:25

I don't think this makes any sense, as Iguodala already has taken on a hugely reduced role. Any more reduced and he'll be scoring 9 points a game. Also, like others said, the Clippers actually have great offensive players for Davis to defer to, whereas on our team, everyone's about as mediocre on offense as Iguodala himself.

There are two players off the top of my head who START who have better offensive games than Andre Iguodala.

These are all the first round draft picks that played under Collins, and how many minutes they got.

1986-87 Brad Sellers 11th pick, started 17 games, Played 1700 minutes

1987-88 Horace Grant 10th pick started 6 games, Played 1800 minutes.

1988-89 Will Perdue 11th pick, 30 games, no starts, 190 minutes.

1995-96 Theo Ratliff and Don Reid were 18th and 19th pick in the draft, Theo started 2 games, played 1300 mins his rookie season. Don Reid played in 69 games, started 46 games, but only played 997 minutes.

1996-97 Jerome Williams 26th pick, no starts, 177 mins.

1997-1998 Scott Pollard 19th pick, no starts, 300 minutes.

2001-2002 #1 pick Kwame Brown 3 starts, played 800 minutes. Brendan Haywood 19th pick , 2 starts, played 1200 minutes. Etan thomas’s rookie season as well(12th pick in 2000) first season playing, no starts, played 600 minutes

2002-2003 Jarred Jeffries 11th pick, 1 start, played 292 minutes, Juan Dixon the 19th pick. 3 starts, played 647 minutes.

Going into this year, Collins has started a first round rookie only 80 times, despite having 12 first round rookies. He’s also never played a rookie more than 2000 minutes lol. ET is on pace for 1968 minutes, more than Doug has given any other rookie he’s coached.

The thing that would need to be looked at (and what derek did with larry brown) is how those minutes compared to others drafted at the same spot in the draft...does Collins play the 11th picked less or more than other 11th picks in history.

Of course it's even more complicated but a pain in the arse to do for sure - look at the rosters and see if it was better that the kid played more or less.

Though unless it's Darko, I would guess Turner is playing less minutes than most recent #2's

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 12:55

Ceratinly playing less minutes when you take his age and college production into account.

I look back to gutys like Laetner and Roy who entered the league as high picks after productive multi-year college careers. Guys like that averaged 35 min per game their first year.

But overall, I think Turner has been given a fair amount of minutes considering his level of play. But I would never give him less than 20 minutes. But his average of 24 min is enough for him to progress.

I think part of the problem, at least for me, is the guys who are getting those minutes that should be going to Turner. I know my frustration is seeing Lou, Nocioni, Meeks, whoever take minutes from him like that when I believe Turners development is more important to the future of this teams, especially compared to giving the mullet minutes

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 13:03

You forget- it's about making the playoffs this year.

That's right, cause we all know the fans show up for a first round pistol whipping

Oh wait, that's right

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 12:52

Thanks for the numbers. Of course Grant was probably the only really notable name on that list. Ho Grant ebntered the league at age 22. By his 2nd year he was averaging 35 min per game and putting up solid numbers. Collins gave him 25 min a game after the all star break his rookie year.

It took Ratliff 3 years to star getting regular minutes. But he did enter the league more raw.

Jason reply to tk76 on Jan 16 at 13:39

The thing with Ratliff was that he didn't get minutes until he was traded away from Doug Collins.

In all honesty, I wasn't following baksetball during all 3 of his stints, wasn't born yet for his first coaching stint, and was still young for his other 2. But it did stand out to me that Horace Grant ended up being the best player that Collins ever coached as a rookie. Just based on the fact he had 12 first round picks to coach I'd expect more out of his players. Outside of Horace grant, none of those players found success under Doug Collins, and a few of them had respectable careers that blossomed after they weren't coached by Doug.

eddies' heady's reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 14:00

Who would you say 'blossomed' from that list?

By blossom i don't mean they turned into an all star by any means, but into a respectable player. Brendan haywood, Ratliff are the two i was referring to.

eddies' heady's reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 14:13

Yeah, I caught the bit where you said 'respectable careers' but was looking for clarity on that blossom thing. Cause I don't see any of those guys as blossoming just because they left Doug's tutelage. Just a bunch of role players to me, some very good in their roles, some not good at all. Which is what I think Turner is nothing more than - a role player. And because of that, just a little too much is being made of whether he has this unfounded bias against rookies and playing them. I feel if the player is good enough to help him win - rookie or not - he'll play them. And right now, Evan hasn't shown he's good enough to even get the minutes he's been given to this point, so Doug should get credit for attempting to develop him, imo. I don't see how he can't get that credit if you base it on performance of the player.

Aye. I agree with you that right now ET is not going to help the sixers win games lol.

This comparison will probably be lost on you. Not sure if you think highly of Jrue. But if Jrue Holiday was a rookie with Doug Collins as a coach, do you think that he would be playing Jrue holiday down the stretch? Would Jrue Holiday still be riding bench?

Aye. I agree with you that right now ET is not going to help the sixers win games lol.

And to me that doesn't matter, the wins and losses are irrelevant this season - they should be - it should be about developing the core of Jrue and ET as fast as possible (same with seeing what you can get from Speights)

and this is one of the reasons I don't like Collins as the coach, nocioni doesn't play on a team developing but he plays on a team that is short sighted enough to not think more than one game at a time.

The 'real' sixes fans aren't going anywhere whatever the record is this year - but you only get the casual ones back by being competitive in the playoffs for more than a round

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 14:29

I agree with you by the way. ET needs to be playing minutes to get to his potential, whatever that may be.

I am not sure if Eddie thinks that everyone on here believes that ET would make us win games just by inserting him. I think everyone here knows that ET isn't making this team better today.

As for this season. Overall outside of the Jrue Holiday progress it's pretty much been a wasted year imo. I think it long term will hurt the sixers more than anything, but at this point it's too late to do anything so i'm just going to enjoy the ride and hope they make the playoffs instead of the 13 seed.

It's actually two wasted years in a row if you see it that way because nothing (aside from Jrue playing) was useful last year

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 14:36

In all honesty you could say the last 7 years were a complete waste and I wouldn't argue with you.

That all depends - I don't think playing for mo or dileo was bad for development but I think keeping Miller more than half a season was a bad idea (in fact the Iverson trade was a few years too late in my opinion)

eddies' heady's reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 15:57

And this is kind of where I differ from most in the community. The last 7 years may have been a waste, but if you focus on player X 'getting' minutes or player Y 'getting minutes this year or that year, then those seasons just become a waste too, no? Especially if those decisions don't go in your favor. That's why I prefer to focus on wins, however they may come. This developing core mentality is nothing but a 3 years away from being 3 years away mindset, to me.

The AAU and summer circuit is ruining our american kids. They don't learn fundamentals and concepts of the game and there isn't time to teach them capably when getting to the NBA level. It's rather difficult to so-called 'develop' guys in this day and age espcecially on this level. Yeah, you have your every-now-and-then player that gets markedly better but most of them are what they are when they get here. Andre Iguodala hasn't really developed since he came into the league. He's gotten ripe with age, sure, but he's pretty much what he was when he came in. Jrue's going to get better, but moreso because he's going to be given more responsibility and asked to do more things and also getting ripe with age. Not necessarily because he was 'developed'. He is what he is. Experience and age (wisdom gained) are more in his corner than actually being 'developed'.

There are tons of examples. Thad isn't much more than what he was when he came in. Marreese is pretty much the same. EB isn't any different than when he came in. Hawes too. Jodie, Noc, Lou are all in the same category. They are what they are - to an extent.

That's why I try to immerse myself into the team winning games because hoping this player pans out or that player pans out or 'gets' minutes is just falling into that year away from a year away reality.

eddies' heady's reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 15:30

If Jrue Holiday was playing like he has been in the 1/3 of the games he's been very respectable, yes, I think Doug would play him down the stretch. If Jrue was turning the ball over late (as he's done several times earlier this season) and making ill-advised decisions down the stretch I think, yes, Doug would and should have him riding the bench.

Not sure where you're going w/ this comparison but I'll say that the 4th quarter down the stretch is no time for developing any player. It does a disservice to the other teammates and overall morale of the team - on, and moreso, off the court.

Touching on another thing you said that I think is important but maybe not realized by most yet is, you said "ET needs to be playing mintues to get to his potential, *whatever thay may be*" . 'Whatever that may be' is the real dilemma here. I've asked before, how much potential is there in an unathletic 22 year old with no defined position that can't shoot and has no specialty? A jack of a few trades, but a master of none-type? There just isn't much potential there, to me, which is why I see it as just as much of a waste to trot him out there major minutes as some feel it is a waste to play Noc or Lou. Sort of, his weaknesses come to light that much more - for the individual players sake (trade-wise) and for the detriment of the team's sake (winning games).

raro reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 15:16

Any reason for excluding Scottie Pippen?

Just finished reading 'Playing for Keeps' and it was interesting to read just how much of Pippen's development was attributed to Collins. Well, that and playing against Jordan everyday in practice...

Hopefully something similar can happen with Turner.

Jason reply to raro on Jan 16 at 15:57


lol I'm blind. I thought the R was for Brad Sellers. Pippen played a total of 1650 mins and didn't start a game.

Jason reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 16:00

lol, that's not even why, I just completely missed him :(.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 20:02

So Pippen as a 22 year old R was more effective than Turner but got less PT.

Looking at the minutes, Pippen was the only SF on the team... so Collins must have instead used a lot of 3 guard sets. Unless he ran Ho Grant at SF?

johnrosz on Jan 16 at 16:55


This truly solidifies Lou's place as the poor mans AI (although, AI might soon be the poor mans AI if the reports about his financial woes are true...)

Jason reply to johnrosz on Jan 16 at 17:00

What's a Bouse? Bitch mouse?

johnrosz reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 17:14

who are the bandwagon bitches all up on his dick?

It's none of us...

Jason reply to johnrosz on Jan 16 at 17:18


Court_visioN reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 18:27

leave it to Lou to rap about "Haha I have money and you don't"

johnrosz reply to Court_visioN on Jan 16 at 19:04

first one out the door after practice so he can make this garbage. Not the biggest rap fan, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is awful.

I'm a rap fan from before louis williams was born, and yeah, he sucks, but quite a lot of it sucks today, the more mainstream something becomes, the more packaging and copycatting and making money matters more than what's going on.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jan 16 at 19:10

I think AI sounded more credible than this, though people seem to think it was awful. Thought 40 bars had a sweet loop.

Never listened to it, I prefer my athletes 'athlete' and my rappers rap - certain crossovers seem ok - like singing to acting - maybe athlete to acting but it's more often 'willie mays hayes' in major league 2 than being any good

Only reason I even listened to a few seconds of the lou williams thing was to see if i wanted to put it in the weekly round up :)

Court_visioN reply to johnrosz on Jan 17 at 2:08

AI at least rapped about more real things. Like exposure to drugs, violence, sex, etc etc. Rappin about "I MADE IT BIG Y'ALL" just seems shallow and ignorant in comparison.

I like this article series. If it isn't too much work though, perhaps it would be better to sort the material by topic rather than source? One's eyes start to glaze over at the 12th version of "Do you think think playerX and teamY for Iguodala trade? No, not happening." If that stuff was all in one section, it would be easy to find or skip.

I appreciate what you're saying but this does not take an insignificant part of time in my week, and it's setup like this so that I can easily tell what I've read at Hoopshype, or hoopsworld or ESPN, or what articles I've already posted about because they can show up repeatedly in the gmail emails.

This week, instead of just saying 'hoopshype' rumors I actually gave the link to the original source because I've always been slightly bothered that people give hoopshype credit for a rumor when all they do is aggregate it from other places (they just doa better job than ESPN's web site)

Maybe I can partition it - I'll think about it - but I can't guarantee I have the tim for it

Love the irony.


Now I no why alot of females up north be so fat because they don't leave the house because it's to cold outside. #Badbodygirls

eddies' heady's reply to Jason on Jan 16 at 18:50


Clippers beat Lakers by 7 in the staples center today

Eric Gordon - 30 points
Blake Griffin 18 pts, 15 rebounds
DeAndre Jordan - 8 pts 15 rebounds
Baron Davis 14 points - 8 assists 2 turnovers

Does anyone else remember the rumor before the 2008 draft where the 76ers were said to be moving the #16 pick to the Knicks for Zach Randolph (and his contract)and the #6 pick? The 76ers were rumored to take Eric Gordon with the pick. Oh well, instead 76ers took Speights at #16 and gave Brand the philly max that summer.

Never heard that rumor

Supposedly Cheeks wanted Zach since he had coached him in Portland. Zach's rep in the NBA was at a low when he was in NY before he went to Memphis and went back to playing at a high level again. And of course the 76ers coveted Gordon since they were (and still are) looking for a legit SG.

Noce is on the shelf indefinitely with his broken finger.

Guess at least a few more scraps for Turner.

johnrosz reply to tk76 on Jan 16 at 20:22

he can't tough it out?

Joe reply to tk76 on Jan 16 at 20:53

Maybe some for Speights as well at the 4.

OK, I just watched Sports Nite and Dei Lynam had a pretty good report on the Sixers. It focused on communication within the Sixers, specifically Collins with the players. It touched on a lot of hut button issues since the last game. It actually focused on JTI. Here's some quotes:

Collins: "I went up to him (ET) after the game and said Evan, look your minutes were down, 10 tonight or whatever, and the reasons they were up the other night was because you were playing really good, and we had to win that game"

On the Iguodala/Turner forearm:
Turner: "I'm cool with Dre, I didn't mind it. I think he misunderstood what was going on like he usually does, but sometimes the thoughts? (IDK what that word was, Turner's got a messed up voice) don't understand, so it's all good"

Collins: "... (was saying something before) Don't do that again. I liked that, so then it comes from them and not from me, then the less they hear that from me then the chances of them liking me longer are a lot better."

Also, Iguodala and Collins had a 20 minute talk about leadership, Dre said that he's usually on the players' side and has had trouble communicating with coaches in the past. Dre said that Collins has done a good job of communication. Jrue said that he doesn't mind Collins' communication methods (texting) have been good.

My two cents: Collins is a good communicator and looks like a pretty good guy to play for temperament wise. He cares about his players, which is good. Kind of a median between an aloof guy like Jordan and a disciplinarian like Scott Skiles.

That being said, his Turner PT explanation is garbage. He made two turnovers, it wasn't like he was killing the team all by himself. Also, why does Nocioni get garbage minutes when he still sucks?

On the Turner situation, I don't agree with Dre forearming him, just tell him to shutup under his breath if that's what the situation calls for. Turner does have a stubborn streak though, so I can see where Dre may have gotten frustrated. I don't know what happened, but I don't mind Turner putting Hawes in his place, if that's just what happened. He doesn't gives Hawes shit when he almost falls over himself on a post move.

johnrosz reply to Rich on Jan 16 at 22:54

There are better ways to go about it than an elbow. I'm just glad that Turner has a certain level of respect/or fear? of Iguodala that he didn't come back at Iggy after the elbow. A lot of players would have

mgfields reply to Rich on Jan 17 at 9:19

Turner said "sometimes the adults don't understand, so it's all good."

eddies' heady's reply to mgfields on Jan 17 at 10:28

Ok, i'm sort of wavering here on this...what the hell is he talking about when he says "like he usually does.."? Is that meaning he thinks Dre is hard of understanding things? And what do you guys think he is referring to when he says "adults", is he saying he's not one?

Wondering what others are getting here?

mgfields reply to eddies' heady's on Jan 17 at 10:58

In the print version of the story, it is clear that the "adult" line was a joke. I think this whole thing is a bigger deal to the fans than the players/coaches.

eddies' heady's reply to mgfields on Jan 17 at 12:36

Yeah, it's not really a big deal to me but i just don't see how you can use 'adult' there and it resemble being funny?

Just wondering if he was taking a shot at Dre by saying he usually misunderstands things. That seemed odd.

johnrosz reply to eddies' heady's on Jan 17 at 12:42

he probably meant it, you can usually get away with saying anything you want if you throw the "just kidding" label on it.

johnrosz on Jan 16 at 23:29

Melo hasn't been in this game for a lot of the 4th quarter, it was only about a 10 point game when they pulled him.

Wonder if Karl got word that he's been moved?

This Denver team is going to be so awful once they're gutted.

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