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My initial count was 21, but I shall exclude 4 of them (just cause they may turn out to be freak losses like the 4 you mentioned above). So 17-24 (exactly the same) over the next 41 games. 34-48 overall.

My initial prediction was 41-42 wins on the season. I am willing to go a bit down due to horribly bad luck and say they go for 23-18 rest of the way for 40 total wins.

deepsixersuede on Jan 20 at 7:08

Without even seeing the schedule I think they go 22-19 in the 2nd half and secure the 7th seed. But does Thorn offer his old squad Iggy as a consolation prize? I hope not.

William on Jan 20 at 8:26

I think they can get the 6th seed and finish close to .500. I'm not convinced the Knicks are for real, and call me crazy, but I think we're better than them.

The Knicks have dropped four straight. I'm not a big fan of that style, saw the Sixers play them early in the year and wasn't impressed at all. That was a while ago, though. We have two games coming up against them.

William reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 10:38

I Remember that Knicks game at the garden without iggy. It was a early start too. I remember the Knicks saying after the game they underestimated the sixers. Every team says that when they lose to the sixers! Not a good excuse. They only play 6 guys and rely on the 3 too much. Plus their schedule gets harder in the 2nd half. That's why I'm not impressed.

William reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 10:59

I Remember that Knicks game at the garden without iggy. It was a early start too. I remember the Knicks saying after the game they underestimated the sixers. Every team says that when they lose to the sixers! Not a good excuse. They only play 6 guys and rely on the 3 too much. Plus their schedule gets harder in the 2nd half. That's why I'm not impressed.

I don't believe in the Knicks one bit. And it's not just their style. They used an easy schedule to build up a solid record. They will get back to earth in the second half of the season especially since they use a very tight rotation.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 13:53

they have future hall of famer LANDRY FIELDS, haven't you heard?

Being math geek here - Turner missing both (based on the 78%) is actually under 5% (4.8% vs 3.6% for lou)

Mediocre teams lose games they shouldn't and win games they shouldn't. Which of the 17 wins 'should have been' losses or are we claiming that other teams don't have bad luck either?

The sixers making the playoffs and getting bitch slapped again is going to be awesome, watching thad earn a 50 million dollar contract

Was that two games ago, the pump-fake three by Lou that dropped in the final minute? That was the only real BS win the Sixers have. They've lost pretty much all the close ones.

I have no idea. My memory game to game isn't as strong as others. I'm not just talking about lucky sixer shots - but the 75% free throw shooter who misses 2 fre throws to ice the game for his team - or maybe teams on the end of a long road trip vs a fresh sixers team :)

Yeah, I'm sure Tray has a list of the wins that don't count due to extenuating circumstances. In terms of something unusual happening to give the Sixers a win, only that one game is really a possibility. They really haven't squeaked any wins out, they typically win handily or lose close games.

They really haven't squeaked any wins out, they typically win handily or lose close games.

Sort of sounds like the definition of mediocre to bad team don't it?

Not really. Winning handily is typically something good teams do. I don't know what kind of team loses every close game in heartbreaking fashion. Probably just the team I chose to root for because I'm cursed.

Oh come on dude - you root for the yankees - maybe you're cursed cause you root for the yankees and then two philly teams - give up the yankees for the good of the eagles and the sixers - come over to the full philly side - you can do it - resist the dark side :)

(Lighten up folks - it's cliche - but it's just a game - not even a game you play - it sucks that they stink - but gotta lighten up a bit - don't let it affect your mood or your life so much :)

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 13:08

No... I've never said once that a win didn't count.

It wasn't a BS win, but the Charlotte game on Monday could easily have gone the other way (Sixers make a 3, Jackson misses an open 3 at the end of regulation).

To me, the Charlotte game balances out the Detroit game. But I think we'll be watching a long time before we see games to balance out the other three losses.

p.s. Don't forget about the first Boston game in the heartbreaking loss list.

Well, if I was on the other end of that Lou Williams three, I'd probably put it right up there with the four losses listed in this post. He pump-faked and hit a fading three over a defender. Terrible shot that had no business falling. I can't think of any other wins the Sixers had on bad, unlikely plays like that.

True, though that game had several more possessions, so the odds of Milwaukee losing the lead were much less astronomical, I think.

Was that the MIL game? they're all bleeding together. Yeah, fair point.

The Lou three vs. CHA was a good play. Augustin bit on the pump fake, which was stupid, but it was a clean look on a well-designed play. Nothing flukey about it.

I think the Devin Harris bobbled 3/4 court shot was flukier than any of these Sixers losses. It was on a miracle shot- while the Sixer losses this year have been teams cashing in on Sixers mistakes. They are flukey but 100% preventable. While someone hitting a 3/4 quart shot (after you knock the ball loose) is not really preventable.

But fluke endings happen all the time in basketball. And if you are a young teams that can't put teams away and tend to make stupid mistakes down the stretch... you suffer more ignominious defeats than most.

So I've been enduring 97.5 for the past couple weeks (at least until Misanelli comes on the air)

They've been mostly eagles since the playoff game - but sadly now they're talking sixers after last nights game.

One caller believes that Collins is being forced to make Iguodala the go to guy by the organization because of the money he makes.

They have a guest host - he's on ESPN - i forget his name - Tolbert maybe?

Sorry, it's legler - tolbert is on KNBR

Legler claims that Josh Smith made it pretty clear he wanted to come to Philadelphia. Does anyone recall this?

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 10:48

He did. But that would not have prevented ATL from matching.

Legler went on to imply that teams take into consideration how 'unhappy' the player would be if they matched. He seemed to indicate that Atlanta might not have matched an offer from the sixers because Smith made it clear he wanted to come to Philadelphia and they didn't want to bring back a disgruntled Smith.

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 10:52

Even I've moved past that ancient history.

"Elton Brand was on his last legs in LA"

That's what a caller said so that's why it came up :)

Getting the 'pulse' of the fan (and the hosts) is kind of interesting - I can put up with less and less each day - but today is the first time they've even mentioned the sixers aside from a score update

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 10:55

You know, the casual fan who has only watch them lose by 1 pt to Boston, LA and Orl probably thinks this team is pretty entertaining. As long as you don't get emotionally invested.

And now they're drafting badly - pointing out who they took but not pointing out who was drafted after they should have taken :)

Thad Young has gone to his right once in '3 years'

Playing the same team in 4 days when you only play them at most 4 times a year?

That's just stupid

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 10:57

I like when they have b2b's vs the same team. Never made much sense to me.

Close losses prove costly Sixers in season's first half:


oops -- should be prove costly to ...

Nice, Tom.

One mistake in there, though. Iguodala hit both of his free throws in the final minute. It was Lou that went 1 of 2 from the line, keeping the deficit at 4 instead of moving it to five.

Thanks, Brian. You are correct -- my bad.

Chris Broussard just told Tim Legler that Iguodala has little to no trade value except shorter contracts right now

Iguodala doesn't care either - you can tell by looking at him on the tv

Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not. I thought he wasn't really into the game for the first 3.5 quarters, but he was certainly into it at the end of regulation and in OT. If he doesn't care, he's still playing well for someone who doesn't care ...

It wasn't me - sorry - it was a caller into 97.5

Oh god no. I'd include a pick to get this done, though:


I'd include a pick to do this one, too.


Yeah, see, your trades aren't trades I think the other team would do - and you're clearing cap space and giving up the longer contracts.

My idea was that Hamilton isn't really done he just HATES playing for the guy coaching the team and Detroit would happily shed his salary combined with the fact that Iguodala and Brand aren't going to be traded.

I added a player who i think improves the team (he's better than Meeks ain't he?) without adding a contract longer than Brand or Iguodala and improving the talent on the roster, while giving up (what I see as) two ueseless roster pieces

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 12:06

And then we can commence the whining about how Turner only gets 15 min a game for the next 2 years.

Well no - i was kind of hoping at some point doug collins stopped playing lou williams and evan turner became the sixth man.

The sixers have very few ways to get better - to improve the talent on the roster - as I see it - this improves the talent on the roster but doesn't harm their precious cap space beyond the years of Iguodala and Brand anyway.

Who would you rather start at the 2 guard right now for the next two years?


If the sixers aren't going to shop Iguodala then they should try and improve - and that means taking on maybe a not so good deal even if the player is more talented.

Kapono and Nocioni are useless and Hamilton I believe isn't done yet - he just REALLY hates playing for Kuester (and vice versa)

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 12:17

That deal would be too "taxing."

Well if the sixers want to get AT ALL better before Iguodala/Brand are gone they have to pay the luxury tax - Tough titties.

It doesn't make em worse (in my mind) and Hamilton is used to playing defense - isn't he?

Jason reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 12:05


I think they'd be more inclined to do this deal, they have no need for lou.

Is Troy Murphy anything but an expiring contract?

Yeah, he is. I still can't figure out why NJ has basically banished him. Makes no sense. The guy was very, very good last year.

Brand, Murphy, Iguodala, Turner, Holiday is better than any lineup the Sixers can put together right now from their current personnel, and Murphy's a legit three-point threat. He can spread the floor at the four instead of having to play Jodie.

Spawes (I've decided to use this name because I still feel they are interchangeablly useless/useful :)

Is that better than the Murphy option to yoU?

This presumes that Evan Turner / Jodie Meeks move ahead of Lou Williams in the rotation though.

No, I think they're better with Murphy. He's a better threat from deep than Rip, and a better rebounder than Hawes. He's a shit defender, but that's really no different than Hawes. Plus, put the shooter on the floor at the four, and maybe Collins will give up the Jodie Meeks ghost.

Except that in your thought process, Turner becomes a starter, and that's really not going to happen this season, I believe Collins has made it abundantly clear where he stands on Evan Turner - his leash is so short it's just the collar

Ryan F reply to Jason on Jan 20 at 12:11

Yeah you're basically just trading expiring contracts here and giving away Brackins to do it.

If you're looking to keep Murphy next year, possibly, but at 30, why would you?

Jason reply to Ryan F on Jan 20 at 12:13

i'd give them brackins who i don't think has a shot in hell at being an NBA starter. Brackins ceiling is a more athletic Charlie V imo.

And even if Murphy is a 2nd half fix, i'd still do it.

The game was an "instant delete" from my DVR (not the first one this year, unfortunately), but after half a day, I think there were some positives (along with a few negatives) to take from the game. My comments:

* Lou has taken plenty of criticism for his end-of-game performance, and rightfully so, but his play earlier in the game was a large part of why they were in the game. As someone pointed out, he was +13 in his minutes, and he himself was a large part of the reason why.
* Whether or not Jrue "deserved" to be taken out in the 3rd is open to debate, but he played extremely well the rest of the quarter after he came back in, the 2nd straight game that's happened. Collins is going to the mid-quarter sub for Jrue and Iguodala more often, and I think it's working for them.
* Iguodala may or may not have fouled on the Richardson 3, but he shouldn't have had his hand in that position. Call it the Hubert Davis rule -- don't put yourself in a position to have a foul called on you. Iguodala should know that if he simply goes straight up to challenge a jumper, he usually bothers the shot (he forced a brick by Redick, I think, doing just that).
* By the way, even with no foul on Iguodala (and assuming a made 3 by Richardson), there's no guarantee the Sixers would have held the lead. It would have been a 1-point game, and they Sixers would have needed to make 2 free throws (no guarantee, as we've seen) and prevent another made 3 (again, no guarantee).
* Turner had a couple of "wow" moments, especially on the reverse lay-up move. And mark it down: there was one fastbreak that went Jrue to Turner to Iguodala, probably the first time that's happened all year.
* I like that Thad abused Anderson and that the team went back to that matchup continually. Unfortunately for Thad, he gave up just as many as he scored to Anderson (if not more). Good job by Thad on Bass in OT, though.
* I thought Iguodala got a good shot at the end of OT. In this particular game, it was the right play call, because Turkoglu couldn't cover him on the top-of-the-key isolation. I do wish Iguodala had been more into it earlier in the game.
* I thought the Sixers switched the P/R too easily in OT. The Magic didn't have enough threats on the court to justify switching like that. Better to fight through and trail the man by a step.

Good news, we're going to have an episode of SixersBeat tonight after the game. I'll put a post up later, but it's looking like a 10pm start. If the Sixers lose again like they did last night, you may get to hear my nervous breakdown live.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 12:25

Question for the show:

Its been a little more than 4 years since AI was traded- leaving the team without a marketable superstar. These stretches between stars kill the fanbase and devalue the franchise. The last long drought was 5 years between Barkley and AI.

Given the current ownership and front office- what is you best guess for how many years between AI being traded away in 2006 and the next marketable superstar to lead the franchise out of irrelevance?

BTW- I'm not saying they should have kept AI around. More that they have seemed to loose their way as a franchise.

TK - I'm not being a smart ass - but what's your answer to this question?

Does Jrue Holiday have the ability to be a marketable superstar in the new 'point guard' driven NBA?

If you think he does - what odds do you lay he can make them

Basically - if you don't - I think they're screwed for years unles Carmelo changes hi mind

More fun from 97.5

Tony Bruno

Everyone knows the reson the sixers lost this game is Andre Iguodala

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 12:15

This is why sports radio shouldn't be allowed to talk about the 4th sport in a city. Just awful.

It's just awful on baseball and football too - it's just laughable when they talk about basketball.

I bet you if Legler wasn't the guest host - they wouldn't have talked basketball anyway

So if it is true that Iguodala has no trade value (because of his contract) and Brand is untradeable (and irreplaceable right now)... what exactly are the next 2-3 seasons about? Waiting to rebuild? Trying to eek out some excitement from a borderline playoff team?

Its amazing to what degree Stefanski's seemingly reasonable moves in '08 have locked down this franchise for at least 5 years.

Wilt...Dr. J...Moses...Barkley......AI....................and the wait continues. Five years wasted IMO. This franchise (like most) is defined by its superstars. AI was traded in 2006. It seems like we will be waiting at least another 3 years until they get their next- and maybe a lot longer. This is killing this franchise and its fanbase.

Obviously, you haven't been paying attention. Lou Williams is the team's superstar. If he'd only reached the 20-point plateau last night, the Sixers would've won.

I'm kidding, but it's probably true. If he hits that second free throw, they win the game.

If the sixers are unwilling to pay the luxury tax to try and improve the talent on the roster

Treading Water - by 2012 it will have been an entire decade

"There's no question now that if they had to do it over, the sixers would have taken Jameer Nelson"

Which draft was that?

I had to double check to be sure which draft it was because they didn't outright say it :)


Should've taken Jameer over Iguodala, huh?

Seems to be what Tony Bruno was saying yes :)

Jason reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 12:43

heh, Jameer would have fit perfectly with Iverson.

I don't suppose they bothered to look at #1 in that draft

How good would Jammer look without Dwight Howard?

Apropos of nothing, has anyone else been reading about this whole franchise tag thing they've been talking about for the NBA? Does that change how you'd feel about building a package around Turner for Melo? Like, would you be willing to roll the dice on a deal if there's a chance Melo wouldn't have a choice about sticking around in Philly for a couple more years? Like he wouldn't have to sign an extension because the Sixers could franchise him.

If they base it on the NFL doesn't it only guarantee one more year of Melo?

(I hadn't heard about the franchise tag thing though)

Well, in the NFL you can franchise a guy indefinitely, right? Every year. Usually guys get pissed and start holding out or whatever, but technically, you can keep using it. Melo also strikes me as a guy who would dog it if you franchised him, but still.

Carmelo actually strikes me as a guy who really wants to go to New York, and everything else is other people with their own agendas. Remember, this is important, his current agents have made zero dollars off him. HIs last contract was signed by different agents - so these guys - they stand to lose a lot (as well) if Carmelo waits to sign with NY in free agency due to the new CBA (plus if Carmelo is real about 'only' wanting to go to new york he might take a less than max deal to go there)

World Wide Wes (who every time I read about him just makes me sick even more) is trying to prove he has real credibilty in the NBA (though I don't think he does) again trying to maneuver Carmelo to Chicago.

I think through it all, Carmelo has been singular and committed - he wants to play in New York - he won't sign his extension with anyone else - he just has others who have other agendas who open their mouths.

Would he 'dog' it if he was franchised year after year? I don't think he would on purpose - but when you're not happy at work - it affects your output and focus. If he wants to go to New York - he will go to New York, and I think it's what he wants.

Only reason I know anything about Franchise tags right now is all the michael vick talk

Jason reply to Brian on Jan 20 at 12:51

I wouldn't want to have a disgruntled Carmelo.

I really hate the franchise tag, I don't understand how it's legal. Would really make me lose interest in the NBA.

It's really cost the NFL fans hasn't it?

I'm not sure why the law has to be involved, but it's legal because it's part of a CBA. Both sides, players and owners agree to the terms of a CBA which gives them weight.

It's the same argument (basically) that allows for the age limits (as affirmed by the supreme court when Mike Williams or Maurice Clarett, forget who, sued the NFL about it).

The franchise tag is a way for teams to keep stars without vastly over paying them - i'm not sure why it would 'ruin' the nba any more than it would ruin the nfl

Are they 'anti competitive'? Sure they are - guess what - salary cap are anti competitive as well - they don't allow teams to spend more if they want to - they limit how much you can spend - that's not 'fair' is it?

Jason reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 12:56

Nfl is more of a team game. I still don't like how it's used as it gives the player no choice...

In the NBA i would hate to see Blake Griffin/Dwight/Chris Paul/Deron williams all stuck on shitty teams that don't put them in a position to win, but because they can franchise him they will continue to make profits at the expense of these players careers.

Jason reply to Jason on Jan 20 at 13:01

Now that I think about it, it's nto that it's a team game. It's because there is less player movment in the NFL. Not many superstar players leave their team through FAency anyway so this doesn't change things, but with NBA, there is blockbuster trades, big FA movement, that would all go away if the franchise tag was added to the NBA

I completely disagree with your premise so I'm not going to get into it but this whole 'he deserves a better team' thing drives me crazy - lots of players play on crappy teams in lots of sports for a majority of their careers - and they make tens of millions.

I am always fascinated when people take the 'players' side over ownership - first off - the owners risk everything and the players make gobs of money - secondly - the players don't care about you as much as the owners do because the owners don't make money with out fans (ok most owners don't, donald sterling does). Both sides are greedy and out to make as much money as possible. And the average fan can't understand EITHER side - but for some reason - greedy millionaires who don't risk millions every year are more palatable than 'greedy' billionaaires who are running a business.

It's something I always found fascinating - sports is business AND entertainment - it's business though - and people always seem to forget that.

In the NBA i would hate to see Blake Griffin/Dwight/Chris Paul/Deron williams all stuck on shitty teams that don't put them in a position to win, but because they can franchise him they will continue to make profits at the expense of these players careers.

Every player in their had the ability to hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent by playing one more year under their rookie salary (except griffin, throwing him in there is nonsense). They all chose to take the big contract instead of finding the 'better' team

I think that those players all believed they could win a championship with their current team. Also under the franchise tag, wouldn't Blake just sign the qualifying offer, and then after that he would immediately get tagged?

And most try to forget about the business side of the game for a reason. If i were to think about how i'm spending money on a game that makes billions of dollars. A game where on a normal night, the players all make more than the 15-20,000 fans combined. Shit like that makes me not want to follow Basketball, so i don't care about it, and if the NBA owners decides to focus on making a profit at the expense of the product I will stop following it.

If you think they PROFIT billions of dollars - then you're mistaken - when people talk billions they're talking gross revenue - they don't make it every year - and they have amazingly high over head. Not every team makes millions or billions.

If you want to stop following basketball because of that you should also stop watching baseball, football, hockey, nascar, tv, movies, etc...

This is the way the world works - I'm tired of fans of sports whining about the model - if you don't like it - don't follow sports - but stop complaining about the money BECAUSE IF THERE WAS NOT THE MONEY THE SPORTS WOULDN'T EXIST

Again though - the players always have a choice - they could choose not to sign the long term deals - they all did - i wish people would stop whining about players 'careers' being wasted when the owners are losing money those years those teams are bad but the players continue to make a profit.

If a teams profits go down - the players salary doesn't - the players money is guaranteed - the owners profits are not. That's one of the primary problems in the NBA

When you include all the players that profit from the game it's over 2 billion. 60 mill (i'm guessing that is average payroll)*30 teams = 1.8 billion +Owners+ whatever goes to the league.

I'm not trying to be a pain - but I have no idea what you're talking about right here

it's really not worth discussing anyway. Talking about the business of basketball is ridiculous, let's just stick to the actual game.

If it's not worth discussing then it's not worth complaining about either. If you can't/don't want to discuss it you shouldn't complain about it either (just saying - that's my point of view on things)

I'd much rather have Nene than Melo. He's a really good player, he's been the major reason the Nuggets are still in the playoffs along with Afflalo. Not sure if Denver is going into rebuilding mode, but I think Nene's got a player option for next season. If the Sixers could put together a deal for him, I'd be very happy. Melo's overrated anyway, especially for the amount of money he's looking for.

I don't believe the Nuggets know what they're doing until the Carmelo Anthony situation is resolved (though I believe it is resolved, he's leaving, and he only wants to go to New York - so now - can they find a team willing to rent and what do they get).

Oh yeah you're right. I guess I assumed the Nuggets were just gonna trade him to New York or somewhere else. If they do he might become available? I think Nene would be a great big man to play with Jrue, his TS% is a crazy 69.5! What?!

If the Nets deal went through (since it included Chauncey) everyone presumed it meant that the nuggets would be fully 'fire sale' rebuilding mode.

It all depends on what else happens and what the nuggets want for Nene. If they shopped him - there would be a big market - but he's still kind of young - so why would they shop him - why can't he be bpart of the rebuilding?

Is he really going to re-sign there for a rebuild?

If there's a new CBA coming - why would he opt out when he can get his big dollars?

Don't forget - they have ty lawson - rebuilding shouldn't take so long :)

Yeah I think he could be and probably should be. I just meant if Denver wanted to get out of paying him the $11 million next year. But I guess that would also mean the Sixers would need to find a way to get rid of Lou and maybe Noc's contracts so it's kind of a long shot, because they're not going to pay whatever tax there is! :)

If Comcast isn't willing to pay the luxury tax - I don't think they can make a single move to get better until Brand/Iguodala expire

johnrosz reply to Chunky Soup on Jan 20 at 14:20

I agree, think Nene would be a great fit here. he's pretty underrated. solid big man

I don't believe he's underrated - it's well known how good he is - when he's healthy (injury or cancer free)

Does anyone think that this trade could work if Melo goes to the Bulls? Gets him out of our division too


Have a starting lineup of Holiday-Iggy-Deng-Brand-Taj

Obviously it's tough to lose Turner but I think we'd be a competitive team (5-6 seed).

I don't think the Nuggets get enough for Melo - I don't like Deng's injury history

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 14:25

I still think Turners upside is greater than what they'd be getting in all of the proposed deals involving his name...

Loul Deng, 4 more years of a hefty contract, and Taj Gibson (he's not a bad but people forget he's already 25)

How does that make them a better team in the long run? it'd just be another move pushing them further into basketball purgatory

Best bet right now is just holding onto Turner, and hoping it clicks for him at some point. No sense in trading the #2 pick at 50 cents on the dollar...

I don't advocate trading Turner at all - but that deal doesn't work for denver anyway ;)

Why on earth would we do that trade... It gets us nowhere, except of course in luxury tax territory.

I like Taj Gibson a whole lot, not crazy about Deng, though.

I wonder if Denver has any interest in Turner.


when all these folks for ESPN start showing up dead - remember when they over did the 'opulence i have it' when mocking Pohkorovo

I'm just saying

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jan 20 at 14:29

"I must break you"

TeddyKGB on Jan 20 at 14:34

Pay this man his money

Not sure where that reference is directed. But since it's a rounders quote, it works.

ItAintEZ reply to Jason on Jan 20 at 15:51

It a vucking joke anyvay

I think they can really finish January with a 5-1 run, as long as they keep defending. If thats so (or 4-2), they can still be slightly over .500 at the end of the season, and fighting for the 6th seed...

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