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Game 47 Thread: PHI vs. DEN

"Don't be surprised if you see George Karl use Melo at the four for stretches, especially when Thad is in the game."

I am excited at the possibility of this. Most teams incorrectly put Height/Strength on Thad, and don't test him with another Athletic and wing spanned player.

I'm probably weird but the most important thing tonight is a rebound from the rebounding DISASTER that happened on Friday night against the Grizzlies.

The sixers were below 60% on the defensive glass on Friday - Denver (on average) opponents on the road get 77% of the defensive rebounds, the sixers have to be at least 75% on the glass. If that's not something Collins was harping on after the game, it's another questionable coaching issue.

Another key might be the Free throws, the sixers just don't draw a lot of them and Denver seems to on the road, and that could be a measure of their offense or a measure of the 'star' quality of Carmelo and Chauncey

One more thing


If JR Smith gets hot, he can score 20 points fast and efficiently. Don't forget he's there.

I like your increased involvement in this game thread. It's kind of like how they do it on the broadcast, except you actually have relevant information and good stats to back it up :)

J.R smith could torch Meeks, so can Afflalo.

Any one could torch Meeks

Kyle Korver, if hot, could torch Meeks.

Meeks is a defensive weakness like Hawes is and well coached teams will exploit the weaknesses.

It'll be interesting to see how Collins handles the fourth tonight after Fridays debacle. I'm also curios to see if that disaster influenced his 4th quarter coaching (if you need defense, don't play Lou for instance)

(Thanks for the kind words - appreciate it)

Meeks 1 on 1 is very exploitable. I really would love Doug not play Meeks today, there is just nobody on denver he can matchup with on defense that can even hide his weakness. Meeks has been on the wing with Jrue/IGGY which has been very good Defensive unit, but this is a no win matchup.

Even if Karl starts attacking meeks, I have faith that Doug will take Meeks out.

Exactly. They need some self-respect after that.

Yeah i agree that the Iguodala - Anthony matchup is really interesting.

Anthony is probably the most dangerous scorer in the NBA (with Durant as a close second), and right now he is going to get a ton of shots because they are dealing with a lot of injuries.

If Anthony is stopped and Billups doesn't suddenly decide to turn it on the Sixers will be fine.

Btw that Jrue - Billups matchup looks intersting too considering Billups is one of the guys Jrue is beong compared to.

Do you think Jrue gets in foul trouble tonight and we end up with too much Lou?

i commented in the last game thread, that I think Jrue struggles with short quick PGs and ends up getting in foul trouble. I think he'll do very well vs Chauncey, might struggle vs Ty Lawson.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 15:28

Chauncy knows how to draw fouls. And unfortunately Jrue ttries to cut guys off when they drive on the P&R. And regardless of position, Jrue draws that foul 90% of the time.

That's a good point. I think Jrue has a bit of Thad-itus on defense. He needs to be in better position vs players that are capable of getting by him with quickness. Jrue also needs to stop fouling in foul trouble, when he is needed on the floor.

ABC broadcast just ran a statistic of the 5 worst teams in close games

#1 was Minnesota
#2 was Miami (bahahaha)
#3 was the Sixers
#4 was Toronto
#5 was Indiana

Interesting imo, all of them struggle in half court offense.

Except one of those teams has (supposedly) 'go to' guys at the end of the game - some would argue 3 of them - on Miami.

It just shows you that having a "so called" superstar go to guys us not as important as many think.

tk76 reply to Xsago on Jan 30 at 15:52

Get back to me in 4 years on that one. Give them a bit to work out the kinks... and they will dominate all game situations on most nights. Only 3 or 4 teams will be able to handle them 95% of the time.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 15:52

Meaning, the other teams will have no shot. And the other elite teams will be competitive with them.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 15:34

Young teams, young PG's. Miami is the outlier.

They are far from an outlier in terms of not having good half court offense that can carry them. Go to guys are for iso situations. You still want to run fluid offense at the end of games, you don't want to go up, dribble teh ball for 15 seconds, then Iso for final 10 seconds. That's terrrrrible half court offense.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 15:38

For the Heat it is very much a temporary issue that they will overcome. If not this year, over the next 2 years.

I completely agree with you. But as of right now they fit the trend of terrible half court offense translating into poor finishers in close games.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 15:44

I reply to this below. I think its mostly stars adapting to no longer being "the man." So not so much a problem with Iso. Lebron won a ton in Cleveland off of creating from late game iso. But now Lebron, Bosh and Wade have to learn how to run plays or who should be Iso'd.

I don not completely agree that iso is a de-facto flawed way to win late in games. If the guy you iso demands a double- and knows how to take advantage of it- then it can be the foundation of a good close. But a lot of posters act like an iso play is by default bad.

But he had a team offense that was much better rounded for late game scenarios. The Heat are not even closely sculpted for LEbron to iso, in fact, I think it's safe to say right now Miami is worse at running the iso because the players around him are essentially useless.

The heat basically run a true iso, leave it 1 on 1 Lebron/ wade vs his man. The other teammates get out of the way . In Cleveland they ran isolation plays, 1 on 1 Lebron vs his man, but they actually ran effective plays that were capable of getting him in a position to succeed. .

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 15:54

Agree. But Miami will learn to maximize him on iso's. And they'll pick up some better role players over the next few years who agree to play for endorsements.

And why can't it be temporary for the Sixers too?

Late games are won with efficient half court offense and quality crunch time defense. There is no reason the Sixers can't improve in each.

tk76 reply to Xsago on Jan 30 at 15:46

Jrue, Thad, Lou, Speights, hawes, Turner, Meeks are all under 24. You don't become a vteran team overnight.

And I don't subscribe to the belief that a 22 year old with 4 years NBA experience is young in name only (pun intended.)

Ridnour and Calderon are young PGs?

Stan reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 21:01

Not one of these teams have decent centers

When did Calderon and Ridnour become young?

Inexperienced in big moments. Think Jrue in 5 years :)

tk76 reply to Xsago on Jan 30 at 15:39

Are they not a young team?

tk76 reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 15:41

Teams that rely on players who are under 24 in key situations will have to deal with the results of "growing pains."

In Miami's case the growing pains are from stars trying to adjust to new roles. And they likely will adjust fine. With the other teams the young guys will make mistakes... and may or may not learn from them...

I don't think it has anything to do with relying on players under a certain age. Has more to do with "relying on players that are inexperienced" doesn't make a significant difference if they are 35 or 23.

OKC was one of the best in close games, and they rely exclusively on two guys under 24.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 15:50

Durant is a superstar. Sort of like Lebron at 21. Sort of like Magic at 21.

Not really a typical NBA player or situation. The Sixers young players are not HOF players who are beyond the limitations of mere mortals. And if one of the Sixers was at that level, it would not be an issue.

Its like having Lebron in 9th grade dominating at the H.S. level. He's not going to be your typical 9th grader. nor is Durant your typical "young player."

Lebron is still a Superstar,Wade is still a superstar; both are older than Durant and Westbrook.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 15:57

That's why I said they are the outliers and I believe their closing issues are temporary.

I also think when you look at young teams in tight games, OKC is an outlier because they have Durnant. Who is like Duncan/MJ/Magic who were so great at a young age that they play better than 10 year vet stars. Their teams don't struggle with the issues that are typical to young teams.

The teams are relatively young but the PGs are not.

tk76 reply to Xsago on Jan 30 at 15:50

Yeah, I see. I think I should have been more clear.

Young team and or young PG. And its worse to have both when dealing with late game situations.

Pacers fired J.O.B.

That probably means they will shake up the team's roster over the next year, maybe moving away from having a bunch of shooters.

Any redundant or poorly used pieces their that the Sixers could target?

tk76 reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 16:04

Maybe Turner + 1st+ Filler for Granger?

I doubt they move Hibber. But I could see them interested in a Collison-Turner-George-?-Hibbert cheap and promissing core.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 16:06

That would give the Sxiers a core of :


With their current top flight bench. I'm not sure how you turn Brand's big expiring into quality bigs in 2 years... but the rest of the team would be top notch.

On the trade front, it's looking like the Lakers desperately need an upgrade at SF over the badly faded Ron Artest. I wonder if they will make a play for Iguodala. Would the Lakers laugh at a possible trade of Bynum-Artest for Iguodala-Hawes-Lou?

tk76 reply to Statman on Jan 30 at 16:17

How healthy is Bynum (long term.)

No - they won't

And no Bynum is unavailable

And no Bynum will not be healthy long term :)

Tray reply to Statman on Jan 30 at 16:30

They'd basically be destroying their team's greatest strength, its huge frontcourt, just to replace their worst player. I think they can afford one weak link.

I think people forget that Matt Barnes was fitting in well before he got injured and will be back.

The lakers don't panic, the lakers play for the playoffs, they really have nothing to be worried about just yet - no one looks like they can take the lakers in 7 games in the west just yet

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 30 at 16:35

Well maybe San Antonio could, though I think their chances would be a lot better if they were getting more from Splitter. I thought he was going to take Blair's spot.

I would suggest that each of these teams that's bad in close games suffers from its own issues, and that few generalizations can be made by looking at all five and coming up with stuff they all share.

tk76 reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 16:16

The kings have also struggled in close games (I believe, you know them better then me.)

So you don't agree that Philly, Minny, Indy, Tor and Sac are a bunch of the youngest teams in the league and struggle partly for that reason. Add the road woes of the Clippers and Wiz and its a pretty strong pattern. And one that makes sence logically.

Teams who give the ball to young players (who are not superstars) have growing pains. Isn't this simple common sense? You don't thow out 7 key players under 34 and expect them to ahndle late game pressure without making seemingly stupid mistakes.

As I said, some vets make mistakes like that their entire careers (Sam.) but for young guys its just normal and expected and you hope they improve.

Tray reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 16:28

I would say that Minnesota, Toronto and Indiana are among the worst teams in the NBA. I'd also point out that the really awful teams, like Cleveland, are never going to come up in this kind of ranking because they're never in close games. I think it's very unsurprising that some of the bad, but not horrendously awful, teams are bad in close games. It's also unsurprising that some of the worst defensive teams in the league, Minnesota and Toronto, are bad in close games. Now, then there are the Sixers, and as we've discussed ad nauseam, part of it's youth, part of it's bad luck, part of it is a lack of players who can score one-on-one at the end of games, and part of it's really misguided late-game coaching. I'd also point out that many of the youngest teams in the league aren't in this top 5. Memphis, New York, OKC, New Jersey, LAC, Washington, Sacramento, Chicago, Milwaukee - all pretty young teams.

tk76 reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 17:14

Some good points. I'd like to see who is #6-#10.

I also agree that its not 100% youth (and some of the young guys might turn into mistake prone vets in a few years.)

I agree, great points tray.

I can't find the exact data that they used, because they had Minnesota something like 2-12 in close games. The best i could find with ease was games decided by 3 pts or less on http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/type/expanded

Teams I noticed that were bad

Clippers 2-4, not surprising, they started off terribly.

Houston, 2-5, was very surprised by this, I am a fan of both Scola and Martin. I think it's safe to say they would benefit from having someone that can handle the ball in late game situations. I don't believe martin is someone that can create a shot for himself, and Aaron brooks/Kyle lowry (Brooks was hurt for part of year) can't run an offense in crunch time. Brooks b/c i think he's a bit selfish. Lowry, because i dont' think he's that good. I believe they'd benefit big time from having a late game closer, I actually now think that Iguodala might be better than Carmelo if he's looking to create plays for the talented offensive scorers in Scola/Martin. Don't know if melo is good enough of a passer to take advantage of the surrounding talent.

MilWaulkee- 2and 5, I think they'd benefit big time from having Brandon Jennings in close games.

Pho 1-2, not much sample size, but i think it's expected they'd struggle in crunch time.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 18:09

From those same stats:

Teams that have a much higher winning percentage in "close" games decide by less than 10 pts as compared to less competitive games (greater than 10 pt margin):


Here there is a pretty good pattern. CP3, Kidd, Nash, Deron. Teams with elite PG's tend to "steal" a disproportionate number of close games when compared to their overall record. .. except OKC, who is the outliers.

On the flip side:

Teams with (roughly) winning records in games decided by 10+ pts, and losing records in games closer than 10 points:

Sixers: 13-7 vs 7-19
Memphis: 12-8 vs 12-16
Magic: 19-7 vs 11-10 (don't quite qualify)
Houston: 10-10 vs 12-17

Don't see any common ground with these teams.

I disagree about OKC. Russell Westbrook fits the trends of very good point guards.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 19:02

Yeah, I don't watch him enough to know how he controlls a game.

Pssht. You're supposed to just go off of what you hear, repeat ESPN analsysts and own it like your own idea :P.

One more number (if i did this right - brian will be able to tell me if the sixers number is wrong)

Defensive Rating
Sixers at Home - 99.9
Denver on Road - 109.4

wow, just got to the BS report w/ Jon Abbott that was released on friday and I got to say that it was a great conversation, I really suggest downloading that episode. Say what you want about Simmons, but I thought he was actually pretty knowledgeable in this conversation.

They Talk a lot about Kobe/Clutch situations. Covers Advanced stats and how much they should be valued, as well as much more, A+ conversation imo.

I kind of felt bad listening to this, it now looks like i listened to this podcast, then started copying nearly verbatimally and posting here:| I used the exact same Baseball/Basketball advanced stats example /sigh. A lot of what ended up being talked about on here over the weekend. Really suggest reading/listening to Abbot. I saw Brian post an Abbot podcast on friday which I’m now going to listen to. Abbot seems very knowledgeable about Basketball the game, as well as the advanced stats aspect.

tk76 reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 16:26

I totally agree that the "clutch" thing is over-rated. The guys with the best "clutch" shooting tend to be guys who are pure shooter (who others set up.)

But that is not the total story. Also important is that a guy like Kobe can at least generate a decent look late in games (both due to skill, athleticism and experience.) While many teams like the Sixers generate TO's when they run plays against a revved up defense. Either bad passes, shot clock violations, forced last second heaves...

Basically most NBA teams play defense with 70% intensity most of the game. And when they give 100% its hard to score. So if you can execute and generate a great look within the offense then even better. But sometime deferring to a star who can at least generate a good look for himself or others is better than letting you lesser player get a chance to screw up.

". Also important is that a guy like Kobe can at least generate a decent look late in games"

I agree with you, I think Kobe is clutch. He just had a wide open 3 on a broken defensive play by Boston, it was a situation that had the crowd on it's feet in anticipation of Kobe's shot and he nailed it. I expect Kobe to come up big in big situations. I think he gets off a realtively good look late in a game. I also think he makes difficult shots better than anyone else in the NBA. But Abbot does have a very good point about how Kobe doesn't pass the ball, he always takes the last shot and because of this ends up taking ridiculously difficult shots that are impressive when made, but he would of been better off just passing it off to an open player.

"Basically most NBA teams play defense with 70% intensity most of the game. And when they give 100% its hard to score"

Completely agree with this, that's why Lou williams is effective in the 2nd and 3rd, but not crunch time.

I really dislike Joey Crawford. Any ref that acts as aggressively as crawford does, is a terrible ref. Dick Bravetta, Joey crawford, if i know you're name and you are only a referee, it means you are doing something wrong. They had a segment on one of the referees for today's game being Ron artest's manager, do I remember his name? nope, couldn't even give you a starting initial.

P.S I'm complaining about his antics, not the foul @ half time. it's a good call, but there's no way he's calling that if it was the end of the game.

Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 17:30

Video: Doug Collins on losing close games, dealing with distractions and ex-Sixers coach Jim O'Brien's firing by the Pacers:


Hmmn, I have a choice between the Denver feed and the Sixers feed. I'll probably go sixers and maybe switch at the half if snow is bugging me more than usual.

Forgot to post this before, but here's the game capsule from the first meeting with the Nuggets. If you don't remember the game, Jrue bitched Ty Lawson down the stretch and carried the Sixers to the win. Lou Williams was away from the team at the time. That was also the game where Iguodala re-injured his achilles, he'd miss the next 8. Melo didn't play in the game.

I have no idea what this is - but someone might


It's a video chat. Thad did one a week or so ago, I missed it, though.

Wonder how many people are sticking w/ the Lakers/Celtics for the finish.

Anyway, the tip is about to happen, and I'm going to assume Hawes will lose it.

It just ended :)

Wow, he won it.

Jodie brick on the first possession.

Looking for positivity. It's a new day, I guess.

I'm watching the end of the Lakers/Celtics game before jumping into the sixers game.

After this game I don't know how you can say that Kobe isn't the best player to have the ball in his hands. Look at what he can do still. Including Regular season stats into "clutch" is very unreasonable. You have to go based off of Playoff clutch if you want to talk about true Clutch imo. And this game just reminds me why I want Kobe. He has the highest IQ of any wing player that can have the ball in his hand/create his own shot. Lebron is stupid, i would never, ever go to him. I'd choose Wade before Lebron imo. I respect Paul, but he has won nothing, not even been to the NBA finals. Dirk has been to the finals, but hasn't won Jack. Kobe has 5 rings, 1 Finals lost. That's impressive, and says clutch enough to me. I know he's been surrounded by talent, but he's delivered. Kobe has won 5/6 finals he's appeared in. His finals success rate is 83%. You cannot tell me that going into all 6 series the lakers were an 83% favorite to win the series. Kobe proves his clutch with his rings, he's got 5 in 6 tries. No other player that is considered elite has that type of sample size.

Tray reply to Jason on Jan 30 at 18:16

Frankly I think Shaq could have won those first three Finals with Ray Allen.

Shaq could've won them with Willie Green at that point of his career.

They look bored and lethargic already - that bodes well

Jodie brick and two turnovers on the first three possessions. Fuck me.

It's nice that Hawes was involved in both the turnovers wasn't it?

Jrue three. Chauncey is killing him on the other end, though. Ugh.

Jrue really struggles with Chauncey every time they play.


You gotta be able to finish that - it wasn't that hard a foul

If I'm not mistaken, Chauncey has all 10, right?

Wide open looks at 3 - always good

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 18:16

Looks like we're gonna get whipped. The bench is going to have to win this one I guess.

Jesus christ, wake the fuck up. Turnovers, three seconds, on both ends of the fucking floor.

Hawes and Meeks pick and pop. Hah.

Nice move, Hawes.

Coming out this flat after the fourth quarter meltdown - that's a coaching concern to me

eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Jan 30 at 18:20

You can't coach effort. Or careless turnovers.

But you can bench stupid

eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Jan 30 at 18:22

Sure you can substitute, but your initial comment was based on 'coming out flat'.

Huh? I think effort is the one thing coach's have the most control over. You can't coach shooting talent, or shot-blocking ability, but you can succeed or fail at motivation. Any coach that can't motivate his players is a problem.

Doug C. for most of this season has been very good at motivation.

eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on Jan 30 at 18:29

Well, by this logic then Doug must just magically appear in each of his players' bodies and control how quick they move their feet laterally, how urgently they go after a loose ball, how crisp and hard they run a cut.

Come on.......a coach can only motivate so far, self-motivation has to take over at some point.

Jrue, you might not want to go under screens when he's shooting like this.

Nuggets on pace for a 40 point first

Jrue has played some really poor D. Can't go under on a guy who is feeling it.

Brand can pretty much score at will. Mixing in a stop on the other end would be nice.

Why did it have to be Meeks filling the lane on that break?

Rich reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 18:23

At least he makes his FTs so that's something.

Was that foul on the shot? It was bout 10 seconds late if it was.

That's a bad call on EB.

Iguodala's jumper is on.

Sissy hook drops.

Seriously disgusting defense.

32 points allowed on 15 possessions, so far.

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 18:30

They need to invoke a Zumism: "close all windown and lock all doors"

Play some D please

It goes, "locking all windows and doors."

Can you "take him to the weight room," while "locking all windows and doors?"

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 18:57

No, the weight room-taking happens on offense, the window/door-locking is a defensive activity. You can, however, take someone to the weight room, miss, and then watch while your teammate turns garbage into gold.

Tray reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 18:58

And, if the garbage-into-gold alchemy changes the lead, you can get on the seesaw.

Hmmn, Turner/Meeks back court. More size on Chauncey.

Nice drive by Turner and 1.

Sweet move ET.

Nuggets 7 for 7 on threes. Yikes.

Ugh, come on Jodie.

OK, keep this run going. You have no business being in this game, make it one possession heading into the second.

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 18:36

Love the offensive output, but no way we can sustain it w/o shutting them down a little more. See what happens with both benches mixing here to start the 2nd.

ugh, shoot it Andre

On the same token, I don't really think 77.8% from three for Denver is sustainable.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 18:40

Agree, unless we keep going under screens on hot shooters.

Andre - take thta shot - nice to look for teammates but come on :)

Ugh. OK, really good run to end the quarter, not sure what that lob was, but still, thank your lucky stars when you look at the score:

PHI 32, DEN 34

Great Iguodala quarter there. Turner seemed like he brought a spark too.

His D on Billups was very good, though he got lucky on the missed three.

Nice D by Lawson.

Pretty pass from ET to TY for the jam.

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 18:42

Nice bounce pass from ET to Thad there on the break, after initiating it off the board.

Guy trips over himself - speights gets called for a foul

Wow, sick board by Turner in traffic there.

Two complete bullshit calls on Speights, the second was worse than the first.

It really seems like Turner looks a lot more comfortable.

Wow Birdman just tried to "unscore" a basket lol. I've never seen anyone be so clueless underneath the basket...

Do they remember the pick and roll that worked in Toronto?

Heh. What a terrible possession and shot. But three point :)

So - worse finisher at the basket - Thad or Iguodala?

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 18:47

Love this pushing the ball at every opportunity. Keep the pressure on their transition D.

At some point Thad, like with Lou - they'll stop falling for the fake - and you will be exposed

What the hell kind of calculation is combining points rebounds and assists?

Tray reply to GoSixers on Jan 30 at 19:00

That's how you figure out who the all-around players are. Obviously.

Speights with the charge!

And now his third foul.


Three on Speights. Thought he played pretty well.

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 18:51

Nene looked to be taking it personal vs Speights there. Got the third foul on him though. Looked like Nene was trying to punk him for being smaller in weight.

wtf? I didn't think they could check for whether he got the shot off, thought it was only if it was a 2/3?

A little curious as to why Iguodala is still on the bench after the start he had.

Sixers crap on the defensive glass again so far..

15/20 is not crap. That's 75%. It's right at their average.

12/17, it's our defensive plus their offensive, not our total plus their offensive. 71% isn't terrible, though.

Thanks for coming late to the game

When I posted it it was 12 of 17 barely above 2/3.

Yeah, what brian said, you gotta subtract out offensive rebounds of the sixers

Yeah when i saw it it was as i wrote :).

Well, Iguodala's doing his job on the defensive end.

Another cheap foul call on the sixers

It's mind-numbing how many of the other team's offensive boards are Spencer Hawes' fault.

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 19:05

Uh-oh, EB to the lockerroom and Speights w/ 3 fouls = more Spencer! yeahhhhhhh

Sick break. Hit the freebie.

Did Tony Battie have sex with dougs dog or something?

Who left lawson alone?

I believe that was Mr. Meeks

If somehow Thorn could trade Hawes for anything of value- that would be turning garbage into....

It's seriously amazing we aren't 20 games under .500 with the bigs we have on this team.

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:11

Is that Doug's coaching or just how shitty the rest of the league is?

Little of both.

The crazy thing is that it's very rarely been exposed. I mean, even by teams that have a stacked front court don't seem to take advantage of it. I think it has to be coaching more than the league, I mean, there are teams out there with dominant front courts, right?

Tray reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 19:10

That's ironic, because Marc's always saying how Hawes turns garbage into gold. How could a player so gifted at turning garbage into gold be garbage himself?

tk76 reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 19:14

It takes garbage to know garbage?

All that garbage has worn off?

He used up all his gold, so now he is just...

TS reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 19:11

I just had a vision of Thorn trading Hawes for some magic beans and all of us saying "That's more than I thought we'd get."

If somehow Thorn could trade Hawes for anything of value- that would be turning garbage into....

Dark Matter
Anti Matter

You know - things more valuable than anything that actually exists :)

Much, much, much better second quarter, especially on the defensive end. A tech on Melo which will be shot at the beginning of the third quarter.

PHI 54, DEN 51 Denver only scored 17 points in the second after scoring 34 in the first.

If anyone is getting the Philly halftime show, please let us know if there's an update on Brand.

What do we do with Jrue on Chauncey? He seems like he's in his head, I don't get it at all.

Give him another shot at the beginning of the third, if he isn't getting it done either double billups, put the bull dog on him and see if that works, or get Turner in there for the bull dog early and switch the matchups like Denver is doing on the other end.

Jrue has done absolutely nothing on either end. He's been standing in the corner on offense.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:18

You know, I think Jrue is a well below average NBA SG.

It's reminiscent of what happened to him at UCLA, really.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:22

Yep. I'm not trying to be critical of him. But it sort of takes away his strengths.

Start turner in the second half so he can guard Chauncey and let Jrue guard whomever Jodie was - it's not like Jrue is worse defensively than Meeks

Nothing on EB yet.

EB BACK for the 2nd half

apparently just had to re-tape his ankle.

tk76 reply to MW on Jan 30 at 19:19

He was busy doing chemistry experiments.

Turner with a triple 4's in the first half. Wonder if he'll get decent minutes in the second half. He should.

Ugh. Man, she is not easy on the eyes.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:24

She could snap you in two without breaking a sweat.

I don't doubt it.

Did McKie get a DUI, or was it an illegal gun charge a couple years ago?

eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:27

possession of a firearm, i think maybe it wasn't registered or something?

Charity points for Hawes after a blatant up and down was missed.

Hawes gets a basket for that?

That truly is gold for garbage.

They seriously don't have anyone to stop EB. Run it through him until they start doubling.

Jrue spoonfeeds Hawes who almost walks with it before the dunk.

EB "has it going on." he is "getting his."

And Hawes traveled (again.)

Much better from Jrue. Hawes is a garbage player, he doesn't even make spoonfed hoops look easy.

tk76 reply to Rich on Jan 30 at 19:30

You think its easy turning garbage...

OK, I should have stopped 4 posts ago.

Who's worse? Sheldon Williams or Spencer Hawes? Both kind of make me hate basketball.

tk76 reply to TS on Jan 30 at 19:33

Hawes, I think. And he's a starter.

Great play by Iggy!
Why wouldn't Brand give it back to Jrue there!!

Old man fast break.

Wow. How did Iguodala do that?

Wow, "kudos" to Iguodala right there.

Didn't the Sixers used to be horrible at the start of the 3rd qtr?

Yeah, not sure where this is coming from. Let's just hope it doesn't end like the last one.

Yes, at one point they were one ofo the five worst in the third quarter in terms of points scored - they've gotten better

JIT, with Jodie stuck in there somewhere..

Iguodala at PF, moves Turner onto Melo.

Turner can't get a good look now. He forced two of those, then clanked the three.

Bleh. Meeks you need to hit those, man.

Nice drive, Jrue. about time.

They may only average 14 TO's per game Zoomer - but they are worse on the road :)

Heh. One wing looks like an all star in this game, one does not.

Dear Kate Fagan

Suck it

Yours Truly

Andre Iguodala

Did she write something about him this weekend? I haven't checked anything since Friday.

I liked how blatantly called him overrated. Whatever. Guess you gotta write what your readers want to read.

Good offense.

Jrue "taking it all the way to the cup." And the Iguodala "goes racing to the hoop."

Monsterous throwdown by Iguodala, who has been so, so efficient recently.

Chauncey has 25 on 10 shots now.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:41

I hope Jrue is nearly as good when he is geriatric.

11 point lead with 3:30 to go in the 3rd when Iguodala pulled with 3 fouls

Wow. Sick block by Thad and really pretty execution on the break as well. Jodie even finished at the rim.

Transition decision making has been excellent tonight.

Not even a goaltend (like I originally thought.)

And a rare meeks finish.

Jrue has five assists this quarter.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:47

And one hellacious bad pass T.O.

I think we're going to see 12 minutes of Lou in the fourth.

Admire the confidnece - and they're not all bad looks - but Evan - it might not be your night

There it is, "Thad Young to turn garbage into gold!"

There's a drinking game in zumisms

I wonder if there's enough for something similar to Chris Wheller Bingo

Jrue with the block in transition. Sick. Get a hoop here. Ugh. Turnover, lazy pass by Jrue. F me.

Collins just sent Lou in for Turner for one defensive possession. Don't get that. Then he put Turner back in for a super-small lineup 4 seconds later. Whatever. Good quarter on both ends.

PHI 82, DEN 72 after three.

So Speights is being punished?

Going small against the Sixers really isn't a good idea. Especially not this small.

Please bench Hawes before they go on a run.

Nice D, Lou.

SPencer Hawes has terrific high post passing skills.

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Jan 30 at 19:55

And even better jump ball skills.

Speights big game a couple of games ago didn't really earn him anything with Doug did it??

AJ reply to AJ on Jan 30 at 19:56

I guess he would rather watch his 7-foot center hoisting corner threes

Hawes loses the jump ball with a 7-inch advantage. Leads to a three-point play. Awesome.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 19:57

C'mon, he is "standing tall" for the Sixers.

That wasn't his fault - he back tapped it - andersen out played young for it

If stupid mistakes get you benched - how does Hawes shooting a 3 not qualify for a 3 game suspension?

Isn't Hawes the reason we got destroyed in the 4th last game? Where's Speights?

"Spencer Hawes standing tall," after an accidental flat-footed block.

Here comes the Denver run. Get Holiday, Turner and Brand in there.

tk76 reply to AJ on Jan 30 at 19:58

Yeah, Jrue will take care of the ball :)

To be fair, he only had two turnovers in the fourth on Friday. Hawes and Brand had three each.

I refuse to believe it's going to happen again. Refuse.

It was a much smaller lead at the end of the third :)

That poor kids glasses and dancing skills don't bode well for his future avoiding beatings at school

Lou vs. Lawson is really displeasing if you enjoy any kind of defense at all being played.

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 20:01

You think doubt is starting to creep into any of their minds? I admit it is creeping into mine. lol

Not looking good. Melo is the only one keeping them in this game.

Well that turned out nicely after thad timed his jump wrong

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 20:05

Thad blocking shots like crazy tonight. Like that.

Thad makes up for blowing the d-board with a block. Tech on JR Smith. Sounds about right.

You can always count on the Nuggets for a tech when you need one.

Meeks for Jrue, huh? That three was a bad shot, maybe. His man went under the screen, so it's questionable. Don't like that hook.


How about in ET in for Lou? The kid has played well.

Nope, Turner for Meeks. Pretty play AI9 to ET, and 1.

eddies' heady's on Jan 30 at 20:10

Good absorption of contact by ET for the and-one chance.

What is that, a play?

I'd prefer Lou isolation :)

bebopdeluxe reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 20:16


I think it's safe to say Turner is getting his shit together. Finally.

Charlie H reply to AJ on Jan 30 at 20:15

So nice to hear that.

Finally? He's a rookie! But yes, look at the insane +15 for Turner, +18 for Iggy. The Iggy/Turner combo is developing very nicely.

I'm going to say Iguodala has been worth about 50 points in this game, maybe 60 taking his scoring, playmaking and defense on Melo into account. That's conservative.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 20:15

If you give him credit for the shots he creates for others, don't you have to not give him credit for all the points he scores if others help create his shots? 50 just sounds like a ton.

Do you do that just to be contrary or do you just hate Iguodala - and this after brian and went and did your homework for you

I'll check how many of his shots were assisted on tomorrow and adjust. It'll still be 50+.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 20:21

How are we reaching this 50? I'll spot you 12 for holding Melo to 12 under his average, but the 38 you need to get to 50, where does that come from? You can't give him 100% of the baskets he assists on.

How many points do you attribute to Iguodala for that steal where he dove out of bounds and started the break? Wound up in a three-point play, they don't even have the ball if not for the super-human effort.

Not only did he hold Melo to 12.6 points below his average, but he forced him into 6 turnovers. I can go back and see how many of those turnovers turned into points on the other end if you want. It took Melo 20 possessions to score 12 points. Melo had 3 boards, 5 below his averages. That's extra possessions.

Iguodala dominated this game, I think 50 pts is conservative.

Granted, it's nowhere near the impact Rudy Gay has on a game with his 20 points on 17 shots and absolutely nothing else, but it was still pretty good.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 20:48

Top play on sportcenter counts for 50 :)

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 20:51

I never said Rudy Gay was a better player than Iguodala. Though he has been this year. And though he's actually averaging 20 on 16 shots, along with 6 boards.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 20:54

And that's an interesting question about the steal. I mean, you can't give him 3 points for it unless you give the guy who scored the 3 points none, even though, if not for the steal, there are no 3 points. I guess the answer is, post-steal, what was the expected value of that fast break. So maybe there's a 70% chance someone scores 2 points in that fast break, so you give him 1.4 points, and then you give the guy who scored the 3 points 1.6 because the possession ended up being 1.6 points more valuable than its expected value.

Tray reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 20:58

Plus, I guess you do have to consider the value of the Denver possession he stopped. Maybe 1.1 points. So I guess a rough estimate of the value of the steal is 2.5 points.

TS reply to Brian on Jan 30 at 20:16

He's been ridiculously efficient the last few games too. Great all-around ball.

I hate that damn rabbit

Turner with a +15, Iggy with a +18. All of our runs in this game have been with Iggy/Turner together on the floor. Everyone notice how the 4th quarter completely changed the second Turner came in for Meeks?

Turner/Iggy is becoming a cohesive unit of sick passing and defense.

Turner/Iggy is becoming a cohesive unit of sick passing and defense.

Hmm....something to look at. I know over all that duo is still pretty bad for the season +/- wise

Yeah, but before Iggy's most recent injury, they looked awful together, Turner had his only good games when Iggy was injured.

But that's changed since Iggy's return. They are playing much better together. The only guy who's gotten worse since Iggy's return is Holiday.

Nice close- albeit without Jrue.

Melo DNP last game. This game more like MIA. Partly credit to Iguodala. Partly his mind might have been up the NJ Turnpike.

Maybe Melo will reconsider when he realizes he could get his very own mini-giraffe?

bebopdeluxe on Jan 30 at 20:15

Now THIS is how you close a game.

I like seeing Turner out there in crunch time...shame he wasn't given a shot to do something on Friday night...

Also good for Jrue to watch...perhaps things will slow down for him a little the next time he's out there in crunch time.

Completely agree. We were losing grip of the lead, Turner comes in for Meeks, and we go back on a big run and put the game away. To me, that was the thing missing in the Memphis collapse. Turner seems to come in and the team plays better. It happens almost every 1st quarter now too, we always start down, then Turner comes in and we make a run.

PHI 110, DEN 99 Final.

Nice way to bounce back from that disaster on Friday. I don't think there's any question about the player of the game.

bebopdeluxe on Jan 30 at 20:21

11/8/6 and a +15 for Turner in 26 minutes.


I don't think you can keep denying Turner 35+ minutes a game if you're Collins.

Thad and Iguodala both worthy of POTG.

Only 2 Sixers on the wrong side of +/- in this one.

In crazy basketball names news, Cleveland's leading scorer tonight, undrafted free agent Manny Harris, is really named Corperryale "Manny" L'Adorable Harris.

tk76 reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 20:37


Tray reply to tk76 on Jan 30 at 20:40

Apparently, Corperryale is "a combination of relatives' names that is pronounced CORE-pre-AL." He's the only one with it. Note how the spelling suggests it's PER-ee-ail, yet they pronounce it pre-al.

Oh hey, a Sixers game that's over by 830pm, that leaves plenty of time to watch the meaningless and completely useless second half of the probowl!

/does the Brian pose
//then hopes the NFL locks itself out into oblivion...

mgfields on Jan 30 at 20:36

Zero turnovers for Turner tonight.
26 assists to 3 turnovers the last eight games.

Sure could've used that steadiness in the turnover-happy Memphis 4th quarter. Hopefully tonight's insertion of Turner in the 4th, as the lead was slipping away, was Collins' recognition of that mistake.

Maybe Jason should wait a few days before doing a Carmelo-Iguodala analysis ;-)

I was really impressed by Turner's passing tonight, plus his body control after getting hit a couple times. The inconsistent jumper I can live with if he's doing all the secondary things like he has been ...

Agreed. The jumper will improve with confidence and experience. But he's only a rookie and yet is already a stud at defense, rebounding, ball-control, and passing. Great draft pick, hope he is a Sixer for a long time.

Iguodala has just been incredible lately. Love watching this guy play on both ends of the floor right now.

deepsixersuede on Jan 30 at 21:06

Interesting postgame Collin's comments;" I went to Evan because Billups was too strong for Jrue". He seems very protective of Jrue's confidence, to the point that I feel that plays more of a role in Lou finishing games than Lou himself.

deepsixersuede reply to deepsixersuede on Jan 30 at 21:11

Another notch in Iggy's belt. Why can't we knock of a 1 to 4 seed in the east or at least compete. Last time I looked, Pierce and Lebron need big performances for their teams to succeed; if Iggy neutralizes them, who knows?

I think Miami can win a game - has won games - when LeBron plays poorly. You know, because of Wade and Bosh. Pierce hasn't played many bad games this year (and none recently) so it's hard to say, but for example, there was the game he scored 11 points against us on 4-15 shooting and they still won. 1-9 shooting against Charlotte, 8 points, they still won, by 31 points. 5-15 shooting against Atlanta, Boston still won. Another game against us, he had 10 points, 3-8 shooting, they won.

deepsixersuede reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 21:30

I just think defense is a big equalizer and if Jrue and Evan can become average or better consistently, we can compete in spite of our bigs not doing much, although that is mainly against Miami, who is just as weak as us up front; I am not a big Bosh fan, as you can see.

Yeah, I think we could beat Miami. Miami almost lost to Detroit, has lost to Indiana, lost to the Clippers. Young teams that play hard give them problems, especially when they don't show up, which happens with them frequently.

If you think any of those teams beating Miami in the regular season means that they have a chance in a best of 7 - miami home court advantage - series in the playoffs - I don't think you understand the different between the regular season and the playoffs

I don't think Suede was saying the Sixers would be favored against the Celtics if Iguodala held Pierce in check (the Celtics would still have an advantage at the other four spots, after all), but they would have a better-than-you-think shot at winning. It's telling that two of the handful of "Pierce struggled" games this year came against the Sixers. I was there when Iguodala shut out Pierce in the first half of the 2nd game. He's really playing the best defense of his career this year, taking to heart what Collins told him over the summer.

deepsixersuede reply to Statman on Jan 30 at 21:50

That is my main point, I don't always word it well; I ,like you, want competitive basketball, and feel this team can compete, especially if Spieghts and Battie get 3/4's of the center minutes.

Tray reply to Statman on Jan 30 at 21:53

Oh, I thought he said they need a big performance from Pierce to succeed.

Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 21:21

Video: Evan Turner after the Sixers beat the Nuggets, 110-99:

http://ow.ly/3MYlD p://ow.ly/3MYlD

Thanks for the video Tom.

Tom Moore on Jan 30 at 21:32

Video: Thaddeus Young after scoring 22 on 10-for-12 shooting for Sixers in win over Denver:


Alright, I have loved a lot of the stuff Collins has done this year, but it's time to switch Turner for Meeks into the starting lineup. Turner's play might improve starting the game and getting into a rhythm right after warmups. Meeks' play should be pretty much the same. He should play, but I don't see much difference in his play whether he's starting or not. Turner's defense looks like it's steadily improving with more time. If Iguodala's going to be here, I want to see Turner play with him and Jrue for extended minutes.

Really impressed by Turner's playmaking as well, he has looked a step ahead of the play instead of behind when he was turning the ball over early in the season. Iguodala and him have combined for

Rich reply to Rich on Jan 30 at 22:30

Iguodala and Turner have combined for a few good plays recently in transition, maybe they become a tough duo with chemistry on the break. That would give the team two- Iguodala to Thad is the other.

Now if they can only get Jrue going well at the same time, the Sixer break would be something to behold ...

Rich reply to Statman on Jan 30 at 23:28

Very interesting question- If this team is best when running, is Jrue good enough in transition?

So Timofey Mozgov, who D'Antoni zanily claimed was the most athletic player on the whole team, back in training camp, has 21 and 12 tonight. I thought he would never have a good game. On the other hand, his match-up, Greg Monroe, has 15 and 17 on 8 shots.

rewatched the game on league pass - Iguodala dominated this game from beginning to end with his defense and vision. He was clearly the best player on the court and was the engine that made the sixers go. awesome.

Also happening tonight - Chris Paul scored 6 points in 5 seconds, in the last minute of a game where they were down 8. First a three at the 17 second mark, then an Ariza steal one second later, and then he got fouled, with 12 seconds left, shooting a three and made all three foul-shots. Then, Grant Hill threw the ball away and the Hornets had the ball with a chance to win or tie the game. Hill blocked Thornton's shot, Paul got the offensive rebound, but missed the game-winner.

deepsixersuede reply to Tray on Jan 30 at 22:38

Does a game like tonight if watched closely, change at all the perception of Melo's versus Iggy's value? If they got an equal paycheck maybe this would be considered a glitch but with a new cba coming doesn't a g.m. possibly change his mind a bit?

Most GMs are stupid, so no. Besides which, Melo has box office value regardless of whether he's really the better player.

I do wonder if Thorn has been talking to BK in the background, though. If anyone is ripe to be fleeced, it's got to be NJ. Favors/Murphy for Iguodala. I wonder if either side would consider that.

tk76 reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 0:08

Good things like that do not happen to Sixers fans. Its not 1982 or 1976 (when the acquired Moses and Dr. J.)

But I guess we can dream.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 1:12

No, I don't think BK would consider that. And at this point, I don't know if the Sixers should do it either. It seems to me that with the ascension of Jrue and Turner, our tanking window has closed. In the past I felt we should go through 2, even 3 years of being really awful to get a string of high lottery picks. But I'm not sure we'll ever be awful again, even without Iguodala. And other teams, unfortunately, undervalue him. I wonder if Turner is really our best trading chip to get a star. It wouldn't take much to restore his value; Favors hasn't really done more than Davis, has done less than Monroe has of late, yet his value is immense. A Turner and Young package (supposing either he agrees to extend somewhere, or we re-sign him and move him next year) might be able to get you quite a lot. Not Carmelo, as he won't come here. But maybe Golden State thinks Monta and Turner makes more sense than Monta playing alongside one of the worst defensive guards in the league. Turner as point guard next to Ellis is intriguing.

It's really hard to extend and trade an RFA because the second you extend them, they become BYC and you can only take back half their value in a trade, but the full amount counts toward the cap of the team you're trading him to.

And I didn't realize Ty Lawson played next to Monta Ellis.

Wait, does this mean you consider Curry a star?

And speaking of odd names, did you know curry's full name is Wardell Stephen Curry II.

Tray reply to Brian on Jan 31 at 9:08

Nah, not quite a star. But probably a better fit with Jrue and Iguodala. And who knows, he may develop into a Kevin Martin-quality scorer. Though probably not, as Martin gets to the line at a way higher rate. But if he were the featured scorer and played off guard he could probably be really productive.

Sixers show resiliency in downing Nuggets:


Video: Brand on the Sixers beating the Nuggets:


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