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Game 48 Thread: PHI @ NJN

Brian

If you used the stats I gave you - they all are 'last 10' either home or away when relevant (through Sunday January 30th)

And for those interested who care - when I do these SOS i don't use any teams 'twice' (for instance, in their last ten road or home games, not sure which the knicks played Miami twice. I only counted miamis win percentage once for the SOS - not sure if that's standard procedure, but that's how I felt I wanted to do it)

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Court_visioN reply to GoSixers on Feb 2 at 17:41
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I would include Miami's percentage twice, I think it's more accurate if you think about it.

Example: Average of 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 6, 10

If you counted the 6 only once, the average would be 8.5 (5+6+7+8+9+10)/6

If you counted the 6 twice, the average would be 7.29 (5+6+6+7+8+9+10)/7

So in your example if you're only counting the Miami percentages twice then you're setting the Knicks' strength of schedule artificially low.

Just my two cents.

It wasn't actually miami that triggered the idea - it was teams who got home games against the washington wizards - i felt that counting the zero more than once might be artificial, but what you say does make sense - i wasn't really thinking clearly it seems (stupid My SQL does not allow limits in sub queries - which may not make sense to you folk but it makes writing the queries for the stats that much harder ;) ) - and I decided to do the SOS / last 10 stuff after I gave brian the comparative stuff - i may have rushed it and thought it out wrong.

If I remember correctly it doesn't affect THESE two teams - but I might be wrong - i can't look at it now, but what you said does actually make sense and sometimes I am so focused on writing the queries to work that I miss the proper math like that.

For discussion's sake, assume the team makes no major trades and keeps Iguodala/Brand for the next 2-3 years.

Over that time where do you see the teams floor, ceiling and most likely outcome over that stretch. And will they be in good shape to improve after those 2-3 years?

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 2 at 17:51
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Assume they resign Thad as well (so no other major addition other than a low priced defensive center.

Floor is probably playoff team, 7 or 8 seed. Ceiling is maybe 4/5 seed, maybe winning a round in the playoffs (depending on Jrue/Turner development over that time), whether or not they're set up to make improvements is dependent on two things (1) how much did it cost them to re-sign thad (2) what does the new CBA look like. Can't really answer w/out first answering both of those questions.

My reply came below - but you doon't think that with the celtics aging that the sixers could perhaps win their divsion if New york doesn't get Carmelo (or even if they do)

After the celtics who do you think starts winning the atlantic? Do you really think those guys have 2-3 years left? I mean at some point someones going to kermit washington KG right?

There's a decent chance they lose Perkins this summer, I think. I guess the question is whether you believe a team built around Rondo can stay relevant when KG, Pierce and Allen either retire or degrade to the point of mediocrity. Is the Rondo/Big Baby tandem going to keep them afloat three years down the road? I don't think so. Though they'll probably be able to lure a free agent. Probably Kevin Love, who the city will go crazy over for a reason I don't really need to mention.

Yeah - I hate people related to the beach boys too

But see - if you don't think the celtics can maintain for that long (which I agree) why can't the sixers be the 3 seed by winning the division - do you think the knicks are going to get melo via FA (only) and thus not lose anything they already have? That amare's knees are going to hold up and that felton can find that high level again for an entire season?

I think even with an aging brand the sixers can be better than the knicks next year - even if they do get Melo, but it depends on Brand, a lot, how long he can last.

Yeah, I didn't really think about whether they could win the Atlantic or not. Not sure Boston really fizzles w/in three seasons, but it's possible. I'm not now, nor will I ever be sold on the Knicks. I think there's a very good chance the Sixers pass them this season. D'Antoni has really put a lot of minutes on his starters.

What about other teams (do the knicks get melo how much does it cost them)

In 2-3 years I think the celtics and magic have probably fallen off where they are now - but it's possible the bulls and heat are still 2 of the top teams in the league.

Indiana has a lot of cap room this off season - if there is one - but who wants to go to indiana - who is going to be the next coach - that's a team with collison and granger and hibbert that could improve with some smart additions - or if lance stephenson focuses on playing and not being an idiot).

Here's the thing

I don't think they could beat Miami or Chicago in a 7 game series - and that's before Chicago figures out how to get a shooting guard and miami has 2 or 3 more uses of the MLE (if it exists) to strengthen their holes.

All things being equal - no rosters changing - i think the sixers COULD be winning their division - as the 3rd seed ,and then lsoing in the second round to miami or chicago but with no realistic legitimate shot of beating either team in 7 games (all things being equal and healthy)

Problem is brand - how long does brand have left - cause there's nothing there...thad just isn't a starter at the four and collins seems to hate speights

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 17:57
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Collins pregame: "I think (Turner) could one day play on Sunday (all-star game)."

What about Jrue?:)

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 2 at 18:17
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Yeah - but will he be an all star starter :)

I wonder if there are modern hall of famers who never made an all-star game?

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johnrosz reply to Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 18:24
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like to hear this. It's hard to get a read on what DC actually thinks of Turner sometimes

While still unable to rebound at a rate suitable for his position - Brooke Lopez has averaged 23.7 pts per game over the past 10 games (home and away)

Only game he scored under 20 was against Memphis who has some big men who are slightly better than Hawes or Speights defensively.

Not sure the sixers can stop him from getting a 25 spot easy - unless the Nets ignore him or they go at him early and get him in foul trouble

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 18:15
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Turner on not making it: "That’s life. Sometimes funny things happen in life. You can’t really worry about it. I can’t worry about things I can’t control. It’s not like I’m a bad basketball player. I’ll be fine in the end."

TOm - not sure if this is an appropriate question for a coach but could you ask Collins if he felt the game being in LA (or playing with Griffin) might have factored into Bledsoe getting picked over Turner?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 2 at 18:21
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I'm sure Collins has deep insights into the rookie/soph selection process. Anyway, I guess Bledsoe made more of an impression early.

I think with all those years behind the mic and as a current coach, Collins has a unique view point on stuff like that.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 2 at 19:18
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Who makes those choices anyway, the league office?

I would have no idea - google might

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 18:22
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Jrue Hioliday on making rookie game: "I'm excited. The most exciting part is all my family gets to come (because it's in LA)."

That would be reason enough for Collins to start him :)

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 18:25
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Video: Collins on the Sixers' improved play, Holiday making rookie game and Turner not being picked:

http://ow.ly/3Pemp

nets 8-3 in last 11 at home... probably going to be a close one. Feeling confident tonight though.

League pass was blacked out, then I realized it's on YES tonight for me. Nets broadcast focusing on Jrue, who has killed the Nets.

Alrighty, usual starting lineup (just love seeing Hawes' smiling face in that graphic.)

Aaaaaaaand, Hawes WINS the tip. Wow.

Jrue assist... officially still the point guard

Nice hustle by Meeks, Jrue rewards him w/ the corner three.

Hawes has zero chance on Favors.

11-2 start in spite of Spencer's attempted sabotage on both ends.

His D has been good so far.

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CB reply to stoned81 on Feb 2 at 19:19
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I beg to differ.

OK, so 5 possessions (not counting the transition hoop), 4 times Jrue was running the play, one time for AI9. They scored 11 points on the last 4 possessions, btw.

Excellent start.

Waiting for Lou to come in and see what happens then.
Also - missed pick and roll opportunities with speights :)

Anyone else notice the Hawes/Meeks two-man game on the first possession? More of that, please (Sincerely, Avery Johnson).

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 19:20
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Bank is open at 7:20 for Dre!

Hawes is making Favors look like Wilt.

Why didn't Brand just go right up with that? No one was between him and the hoop.

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johnrosz on Feb 2 at 19:26
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man looked like Dre missed an easy layup for Hawes on a cut there.

No such thing with Hawes.

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johnrosz reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 19:28
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yeah I was thinking that as I typed it. probably would've dropped it

According to ESPN's box score, the Sixers have -1 turnovers.

Early minutes for Battie.

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 19:29
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Nice pick and pop w/ Jrue and Battie.

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 19:30
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High ball screen by Battie, Lou for 3.

Mix in a fucking stop, huh?

Did he just bring Speights in for a defensive possession ? Why?

Good offense, bad defense.

PHI 28, NJN 26 after one.

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Rich reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 19:37
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Hawes and Battie, both bad defenders.

Why no Speights?

He came in at the end of the quarter.

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Rich reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 19:39
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I meant after Hawes got pulled.

OK, after Lou came in, he was the initiator on 5 of 6 possessions.

Who was on the floor with him?

AI9 and Jrue, then ET and Jrue, then ET and Meeks, then AI9 and Jrue.

Sigh

I thought it was more than just 'the isos' but was hoping it was irrational :(

After one quarter the offense looks pretty much the same to me. Which is good, very good...

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 19:40
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Nets started 3-12 FG, then made last eight to close out quarter.

Doug should just tell Meeks never to dribble.

Give Petro the fucking 18-footer instead of Humphries right at the rim. Wake up.

Only four legit offensive possessions (non-transition) this quarter, Lou got three of them, ET got one. Since entering the game, Lou has gotten 8/10 (one for Jrue, the other for ET).

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 19:47
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So nothing's changed on the initiation front. The point forward drama is way overblown. Lou has been doing that for a good stretch of games now.

Not really, I've got AI9 for 7 of the 14 half-court possessions when he's been on the floor.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 19:55
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But did he create something for anyone else? Or just make a pass to the wing to start the offense?

No, I'm going w/ who the play is set up for. So if Lou brings it up, but they run it to get the ball to AI9 on the wing and make a play, I count it as AI9.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 19:59
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Oh, so how do you score the one a few sec ago where Lou pushed it and passed ahead to Dre and he cross-court passed it to Jrue at the arc and Jrue quickly passed it to EB at foul line for a made J?

Transition.

If they aren't running a set, it doesn't count.

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 19:47
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Turner on not making rookie all-star game: 'That's life':

http://ow.ly/3Pg5r

Jrue had a very good first quarter, not sure why he's rotting right now.

The teams poor defense is all his fault - Lou however doesn't have to play defense :)

Sam Dalembert can make that shot Spencer

This exercise is really depressing.

Helps knock that silly optimism you've been feeling recently off your shoulders :)

All Lou is awesome ain't it?

Too much Lou.

Sixers shooting badly but taking advantage of Jerseys soft rebounding numbers...well below their previous 10

Defense with two big plays that turned immediately into hoops. Need more of that.

Jrue has 6/5/5 right now. Possible trip/double tonight?

Only if he has it before the last 5 minutes of the game :)

Living somewhere where college hockey is relevant is kind of fun - those games are fun to go to - and pretty cheap

Does someone want to guard that Humphries guy?

Lou iso's at the end of the quarter are fun

Stupid Foul Spencer

I didn't know Lou was gonna play more Point-Foward.

Kapono (decoy) sighting

Big end to the half, capped w/ a Jrue three.

PHI 53, NJN 44

That play at the end of the half almost looked like it was designed for a Jrue three, huh?

Impressive work on the offensive glass for the sixers in the first half (9/23, 39.1%) - that helped make up for some poor shooting from the floor - the Nets should be embarrassed with guys like Lopez, Humphries, Favors being their big men.

The Griz continue to comb the league for a deal involving Hasheem Thabeet. They aren't getting any offers compelling enough to give away the 7-3 project center. Right now, it's J-will or bust. The Griz aren't planning to to sign any players to a 10-day contract

I wonder what would be compelling to them?

Lou's ball-dominance settled down. He wound up being on the floor for 20 half-court possessions, he initiated on 12 of the 20 (and had zero assists).

Jrue was on the floor for 24 half-court possession, and initiated on 10 of them. (he had 5 assists and zero turnovers.)

Jrue has 9 points (on 8 shots), 6 boards, 5 assists, 0 turnovers and 0 fouls at the half. Could be a big game for him.

Lou initiated over half
Jrue did not

How many of lou's 12 were with jrue on the floor (and vice versa) if you can do that easily?

Lou w/ Jrue = 7 for Lou, 3 for Jrue, 11 total possessions (AI9 got the other)

I've got 16 points on 10 transition possessions. 37 points on 33 half-court possessions. 53 points on 43 possessions overall.

KNow where i can find second chance points?

No, I don't. Other than the play-by-play.

Brand took something in the face or eye on that blocked shot that led to the Meeks three and jersey time out - hope it ain't serious

6 quick transition points, defense to offense.

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 20:27
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Good ending to the quarter in the second, strong start to the third. Good job coach and effort/execution of the guys.

Meeks about to catch fire?

Jrue really needs to get back to initiating contact on his drives. He hasn't been getting to the line at all.

Make that 8-straight in transition. Hawes "running" the floor for that one, nice find by Jrue.

Avery wanted that ejection

THat's just stupid

I've never seen a coach run down the floor like that. Hilarious. Harris did get hammered, though.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 20:33
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I thought it was a clean strip by EB. All ball, looked like.

That's definitely a fineable thing I would think - maybe a suspension?

If Spencer HaHawes gets an offensive rebound over you - be embarrassed

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 20:34
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Dre w/ the reverse! Keep pouring it on guys!

The Sixers are just exposing the Nets. Holy shit. This is almost all in transition. I've got 14 transition points so far this quarter (including the two techs).

They put a lot of money into advertising this DC MMO - must not be doing well

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bebopdeluxe on Feb 2 at 20:36
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It would be SO much better for me if Hawes just flat-out sucked.

When he rebounds like this, I just hate him more.

New Jerse should be pretty embarrassed at how dominant the sixers are on the offensive glass tonight

Jrue has a legit shot at a triple-double here. 9/7/7 not even halfway through the third.

How long until Lou comes in and kills our flow in this game?

Allowing that 3 to go down and cut the lead to 13 is a benchable offense for Jrue or Meeks doesn't it?

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TS reply to TS on Feb 2 at 20:42
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I'm always perplexed as to why we jack up 3's when we have a big lead.

If they're open looks I don't mind so much

With the sub 30 on the road percentage in the last 10 - i would have been happy if they took none :)

I wonder if he's going to yank Jrue here. Jrue hasn't made a single mistake that I've seen tonight, but I'm positive Lou is coming into this game right now.

Btw, Iguodala's been initiating in the half court pretty much this entire quarter, though they have so many transition possessions, it's hard to tell.

that offensive foul should do it

3 TOs so far. Lets hope they can keep that up.

This is not looking good. Back-to-back turnovers.

10-0 run shortly after ejection

therefore ejection helped them get back in

Is that the first T of Jrue's career?

Man, did they ever need that Turner hoop in transition. The freebie will help, as well.

Jrue has 9/9/9 right now.

Ugh. Two pointless fouls on one possession, shots on the second one. Come on, you're better than that.

Rebound better than that please

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Doug Collins on Feb 2 at 20:50
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EVAN....EVAN...EVAN...THAT'S A BAD PLAY

Anyone notice the sixers can't beat a zone - that's awesome

Ugh. Our bench is terrible tonight.

Lead was as high as 20+ but it's still higher than it was at halftime (9)

Big play by Lou.

It's really hard to figure out who's initiating plays against this zone. Probably because no one is.

PHI 78, NJN 66

Looking back, a very strong quarter, but the second half was very, very bad. They need to figure out how to break the zone. Maybe trying the P&R w/ Speights would be a good idea, considering how well it worked against TOR. They're just content to pass the ball around the perimeter, which clearly isn't working.

Have they run a P&R with speights since the Toronto game? I haven't seen one (again, damn you synergy)

Devin Harris reminds me of Paul Pierce with his herky-jerky flailing.

Lou - you had hawes on the P&R move - try it next time - he might make it

Turner good court vision - Hawes not so ready

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 21:00
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Just finish. only 8 min away.

In the future big man hunt for the sixers, aside from defense, court awareness & good hands is vital when you're on the court with Jrue/Iguodala/Turner...some great vision in that trio

6 points on 8 possessions (5 for Lou) to open the fourth. I think Jrue's coming in after this timeout, but I'm not sure who he'll get, probably Turner.

Give that man a kewpie doll

13 point lead - what good is lou on defense?

Man, always loved Iguodala's court vision - that was a nice find of Jrue

How is New Jersey 7-3 in their last 10 home games?

Come on, 1 board, Jrue.

Sixers only have one offensive board in the second half according to the Yahoo box score (and 9 at half time)

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Old School Sixer Fan reply to GoSixers on Feb 2 at 21:07
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It may be more difficult to offensive rebound against a zone defense

Especially if everyone is staying on the outside of it before the shot goes up (lack of a real low post presence probably - long term issue for the sixers)

Ian (who pronounces his name wrong) Eagle keeps saying that Avery getting ejected was part of a plan :)

Actually, it's usually the opposite. When you're in a zone, it's harder to account for everyone on the offensive glass. Usually, o-boards are easier.

A small thing but I always like when the sixers 'win' every quarter.

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Feb 2 at 21:10
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Collins is big on winning quarters, as you probably know.

I actually didn't know.

Now i'm curios - and i'm a dork so i'll look at it at some point - how many games have the sixers won every quarter this year :)

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 21:09
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We haven't had this many fast break points I would guess since the DiLeo year?? wow

Thad

that's why no one guards you close :)

Someone needs to tell Jrue that he needs 1 rebound.

Poor Spencer - ignored for an easy two by Iguodala so they could run the clock down :)


Heh, they just took a minute off the clock on this possession.

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 21:13
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If Lou can get to the line like this we will be that much more potent in the playoffs.

There you go, 20 second chance points for the Sixers.

He may have lost the ball - but Lopez fouled him

Did Lopez suck at rebounding in college?

Average rebounder

DX on his weaknesses - I think average might have been kind?

Game. There, I said it.

Ugh, come on. Someone tell Jrue he needs it. I bet Hawes rips one out of his hands on the final shot, that would be fitting.

If you''re interested - the mavs are beating the knicks by 16 with 2:22 in the 3rd

and the nets game hosts can't rap for their lives

More importantly - Bieber in the house at MSG

Jrue with the trip

JRUE GOT IT!!

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 21:17
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Heh, Dre knew Jrue needed a board for the trip-dub....he said "there you go, boy!" on that missed free throw..ha

Whoohoo! Trip/Dub!

hopefully the first of many

Feels good to see them celebrating w/ Jrue.

slightly depressed fan?

11:1

That's better to me than the trip dub :)

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eddies' heady's on Feb 2 at 21:20
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Can Lou get any consideration for POTG?

He could. But a triple-double w/ an 11,10,11 and 1 turnover? That's not good enough for you?

But no steals?

Jrue was a +20, Lou was a +8 and had two turnovers - it's parsing hairs - but I agree with your jrue awarding :)

(Lou was the only sixer with more than one turnover tonight ;) )

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 21:24
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Didn't say it wasn't. But Lou had a really, really strong game. 50% from deep, over 50% from floor, and more importantly to me was 9 trips to line and converting all of 'em. Splitting hairs, but as you said earlier i think Jrue just isn't getting to the line. And we will need that from him in playoffs.

Classic argument. Pure scoring vs. overall game. You know which way I usually lean.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 21:41
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Well, if that's your take then Lou had 2 blocks and 1 steal to Jrue's none. I thought they were both deserving but just wanted to throw it out there to see what you were thinking. Your Jrue-love should win over:)

Not for nothing - but how long would the streak be if not for that memphis choke - 6?

PHI 106, NJN 92

Good to see them win with ease on the road. Interesting stuff from the possessions I tracked, check back later for the wrap w/ an extra chart.

I'm completely torn on the POTG right now, btw. Lou might just deserve it. Let me know what you think and I'll take it into consideration.

Jrue's first trip dub, amazing ball handling with the 11:1 A:TO ratio and in the splitting hairs department, +20, while Lou was +8 and the only sixers with 2 turnovers.

In the spirit of Collins coaching though you could have them share it :)

If you got LP and care - knicks cut it to 11 by the end of the quarter after being down by 24 in the 3rd - sounds familiar - maybe the mavs can do what the sixers did in the fourth.

BTW - I usually get a 'text' alert from ESPN every time someone hits a triple double - I'm looking forward to the one about Jrue - but I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't send it out.

See, point forwarmageddon had the huge damaging effect on Jrue of causing him to have his first triple-double.

Rose got his first triple double about 2 weeks ago, or maybe 120 more starts than Jrue has right now. Not that that means anything.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 2 at 21:35
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Yeah, it doesn't actually mean a whole lot. Obviously producing triple-doubles on a regular basis means you do a lot besides score, but the exact date when you have your first double-digit rebound/assist game doesn't mean much, especially if you're a point guard who isn't a big-time rebounder in the first place. You know what I mean? Jrue's game isn't about triple-doubles or near-triple-doubles, so his getting one doesn't say much more than if he were to happen to get 14 rebounds one night. I think a 20/10 game, or a 15 assist game, would be a much more meaningful milestone for Jrue. But anyway, he doesn't appear to have been frozen out of anything.

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Feb 2 at 21:29
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classic. lol

Sixers had 106 points on 88 possessions tonight. Impressive.

Best of the year?

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 2 at 21:37
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Probably not, given that they only shot .446, and 6-18 from three. Their efficiency was a product of hitting all their free-throws. Isn't even as if we got to the line so much. So yeah, statistically really efficient offense, but I don't think you say, "great offense!" just because a team was really good from the line on a given night.

120.5

I actually give my vote to Lou for POTG- because I think his points were key tonight- especially countering NJ's attempt to come back. But that does not take anything away from Jrue. Great to see the triple-double, after Collins calls Iguodala his triple double player.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 2 at 21:54
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But Jrue got the Ace of Speights.

Lebrob, Lamar Odom, Wall and Jrue.

Players age 20 with triple doubles.

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Charlie H reply to tk76 on Feb 2 at 22:07
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I think you're forgetting Magic.

Have to give POG to Lou. He went to the line in the 4th and kept the Nets at arm's length. Jrue didn't draw any fouls and Harris had a good game against, so I give Lou the edge. But 11-1 A/T, nice.

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tk76 reply to Charlie H on Feb 2 at 22:09
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I might. Those 3 are just listed as the 3 youngest.

Harris scored somewhat efficiently, but he had 5 turnovers.

Is there anywhere online where I can watch Bulls-Clippers? It's blacked out on league pass, and I just realized my apartment isn't subscribed to NBA TV. Very depressing.

Did you get a chance to see the Clippers get their asses handed to them at home?

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 3 at 2:01
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No, and I missed Griffin's 32-13-7 night. Gordon's out, you know. Kind of changes things.

The Sixers found a way to beat Chicago without Iguodala.

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 22:11
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Video: Jrue Holiday after first career triple-double:

http://ow.ly/3PjDB

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Turtle Bay on Feb 2 at 22:51
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Have to give player of the game to Jrue. First career triple-double. That's kind of a big deal.

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Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 23:21
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Taking train home from Newark.

Some triple-double info:

Holiday's was first triple-double since Andre Miller (April 4, 2009) and 31st in team history;

Andre Iguodala has four in his career, with first coming as a rookie on March 23, 2005, against the Pistons.

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tk76 reply to Tom Moore on Feb 2 at 23:28
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21 and 2 months :)

There are more than a couple to do it before their 21st birthday. Only two of them did it with fewer than 2 turnovers, though. Jrue and Wall.

Video: Williams after scoring game-high 26 points against Nets:

http://ow.ly/3Pmlz

Holiday joins 'club' with triple-double:

http://ow.ly/3Pmqg


Finally home.


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