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Not Quite Enough

Amazing how the Sixers consistently shut down Orlando's wing superstars (VC and now Arenas) and yet fall short. If only the Sixers had a superstar like that :)

Are either of them considered super stars any more?

Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 10 at 13:48


deepsixersuede on Feb 10 at 7:16

Games like this make me think Hawes could be a decent backup center for us but they are few and far between. Jrue looks confused and unsure of his role, but overall I like the way this team moves the ball. When was the last sixers team that shared the ball this well, preIverson?

"Plus, the fans will probably blame the loss on Iguodala's late turnover, and who wants to be on the wrong side of the fans? That's not how you get to the top."

You seem extra bitter today.

This is way too true. This was the only Sixer's related facebook status I saw after the game: "Andre Iguadala singlehandledly lost that game for us. An $80 million contract weighing this team down"

He is one of those emotional philly sports fan that only sees what he wants to see (i.e. the average philly sports fan).

It took everything I had to not to get into one of those classy facebook cyber arguments with him.

Yeah, I said the same thing last night.


Even though he's running at a near-historic assist to turnover ratio for a non-pg, this will be used as proof of his "low basketball iq" by some people.

eddies' heady's on Feb 10 at 8:14

One thing from that debacle of a last minute, why didn't Andre and another player go ahead and foul Redick when they were trying to trap him in the backcourt on that baseball pass he threw to the leaking teammate for the easy layup? It was around 30 seconds left, so I was not sure if they were told to try for a steal first or something b/c it looked really weird that neither of our two players appeared to attempt to foul. Anyone else notice this?

Guess is because Sixers were only down two and roughly 30 seconds to go, the Sixers would play out the 24-second clock and have a chance to tie it up or win in regulation if they could get a stop/rebound.

More egregious I thought was Brand motioning for the travel call while his man was streaking down the court. Very frustrating.

and there were 27 seconds left. I probably would have gone for the foul over trying to get a stop, although they did still have a timeout so I guess playing for a stop was still in play.

Story: Sixers undone by Howard, Magic's 3-point shooting:


That was actually game 3 of a brtual 7 game stretch (starting with the Knicks game on the road, the sixers will be/were underdogs in 7 straight games, with the possible exception of AT MIN) in which an amazing goal to accomplish would be 4-3. 1-2 is not the best start, but 4-3 is still do-able. We might need to shock the world and beat SA for it to happen though.

Helps that the game will be the sixth in the Spurs' annual rodeo trip.

Williams' big fourth quarter isn't enough for Sixers:


dwhite reply to Tom Moore on Feb 10 at 10:06

Knicks lost to the Clippers and Indy came out winners of the IND-CHA game. Still basically where we were in the standings before last night, with Indiana starting to nip at our heels. I wonder if this is a temporary 'new coach bump' type thing (like CHA briefly experienced after Larry Brown's departure) or the real thing? We can even the season series with Indiana in early March - really looks like it's down to the Sixers, Pacers and Bobcats for the bottom seeds. Milwaukee has fallen off pretty badly.

Actually if i'm not mistaken all those teams have a tougher schedule in the last 30 games than the Sixers. I think they have a legitimate shot at the 6th seed. I also wouldn't count the Bucks out yet. I still think they will move past the Pacers and Bobcats for the 8th seed.

This was my immediate reaction after watching the game:

Lots of goats in this one.

1. Collins deciding to try and go Lou v. Orlando.
-I don't blame Lou. he actually did all he could. But Collins was the one who said the heck with defense, ball movement, team... lets just go back to the old Iverson days.

2. Jrue and Turner with stupid 20 ft jumpers off the dribble in transition. You can get that shot any time. I can almost tolerate assisted 20 foot jumpers if you are wide open. But off the dribble in transition?

3. If you shoot as a team worse from the foul line than Howard you should lose.

I generally defend Collins for his positives. But he is flat out losing Jrue and seems not to care. Jrue Holiday is a lousy NBA SG, just like the case at UCLA. But that seems to be his new ordained role on this team.

I suppose since I had them losing both of these games in the 4-6 in the next 10 prediction, I should be satisfied, though it's difficult to watch them play so well the previous night and play badly the next. I don't want to give the Orlando defense for shutting the sixers down, because it really wasn't that good. After the previous nights performance it's kind of disappointing they came out so warbly on the offense.

One thing I'm pretty certain of now though, the Magic aren't getting out of the second round of the playoffs.

Yeah, they kind of had an identity before. Now they are a mess after Howard. Honestly, i wouldn't be surprised if they are a victim in a first round upset. Howard won't be able to hit those free throws like that and stay out of foul trouble every game.

Plus in the second round it's probably boston (can't see orlando beating out the heat for the division), and their talent level is a bit higher.

Bostons's also sick at home - 23-4 and I think their only 4 road losses are upper echelon western teams - I don't think they've lost a home game to an eastern team - I have to double check that later though.

tk76 reply to Xsago on Feb 10 at 11:19

They're 1st round is likely the 4/5 vs the Hawks. Both teams are pretty flawed IMO.

Yeah, that's the matchup I assumed too. I think the Magic can get past the hawks with the roster they have - but I don't think they'll take out the celtics. Honestly, I think the celtics might beat em in 5 even. That would be sad

But then everyone can talk even more about Dwight wanting out now since the roster is so bad

Tom Moore on Feb 10 at 12:22

Video: My interview with Collins on Turner's injury, play of Meeks and Holiday, becoming relevant again and facing the Spurs:


I told Jodie "just play"

Well thank god for that Doug

Thanks, Tom. Really like what he had to say toward the end about sort of the environment they're creating around the team, not just on the court, but "this is how we do things around here, we work hard." It seems like that should go w/out saying when guys make this much money, but it obviously doesn't. A couple years down the road, that may be the most important thing Collins has done for these young guys.

Tom Moore on Feb 10 at 12:46

Video: Spencer Hawes on Elton Brand as a leader, going uo against Dwight Howard and Friday's game vs. Tim Duncan and Spurs:


No questions about the communist news network?

Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 10 at 13:50

It is an incredibly lousy news network, but yeah, I'm not really seeing the communism.

It's a better news network than Most

if the C stands for Communism then I guess the F stands for Fascist?

Questions for another day ...

I really hope Collins has a plan for Jrue. Especially for Collins sake, as his career will most likely be tied to the growth and production of both Jrue and Turner.

He probably does -b ut it doesn't seem to be 'just play' :)

Wow, Jerry Sloan resigned.

There were some rumblings (if you read the rumors page at hoopshype) of something about to happen in Utah, but everyone was very mum and non speculative. Sloan didn't talk to the press for a while after the game even though he's usually right there - the GM declined to be talked to, the players seemed off.

And this was just after he signed an extension less than a week ago.

It's not really his fault

Wow indeed. Historical moments for Jazz fans... I certainly did not expect this.

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 10 at 14:12

Utah may be underachieving, but not all that much. They have too many defensive weaknesses to be very good. I hope he wasn't forced out because that would be insane.

I don't know if he was nudged or not, but they did not look like a Sloan team, and you really couldn't expect them to. Al Jefferson was a horrible addition for them, imo.

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 10 at 14:28

Clearly nudged, who signs an extension only to walk away a week later?

I just saw something that said the extension news wasn't quite true. Assume more details will follow. But on the same note, who gives a guy an extension only to nudge him out a week later? Other than Snider/Shanahan, that is.

Very few Jazz fans at the one (newspaper) site i want to happy with it.

A few have this kind of feeling

If Williams wasn't the slowest PG in the world and could have defended Rose and Westbrook, Sloan would still have a job.

D-Will is way overrated. He is a good PG, but not an elite one.

Deron Williams is the one player being called out the most if a player is called out.

Sounds oddly familiar.

There's a link coming in this weeks around the web that speaks to this with which you imply?

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Feb 10 at 15:00

I'll take him...

Mike reply to Brian on Feb 10 at 16:19

sounds like it was "we'll pay you for an extra year if you just resign"

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 10 at 14:38

Yeah, if I was Sloan, trying to coach up Al Jeff into my kind of player would push me over the edge.

Lots of reports the past couple weeks have implied that Sloan 'lost' the team...now to me that means you have the wrong players because Sloan is one of the best there is, and Doug Collins should call i mright away and see if he wants to help out :)

I shudder to think if this is 'deron' influenced. It doesn't get the talk of Paul or Howard but I think Williams is a mover in 2012 as well isn't he?

Sloan was the last of the old-school coaches. He didn't have a star system for Stockton and Malone, and treated them similar to his other players. His guards also set the best picks I've ever seen.

He made it through 13 Sixers' coaches.

Poppovich seems to be a pretty old school coach?

Interesting that the Sloan resignation came about reportedly because of major ongoing conflicts between Sloan and Deron Williams. Speculation is already beginning as to whether Deron will be traded. If you're the Sixers, would you make an attempt for him (most likely with Jrue as the centerpiece of what would be going back)?

I'd say if there is any chance Williams hits the market Thorn will be very very interested. That kind of a trade fits his style.

Yes, you go after deron williams, but you face the 'keeping him' issue cause his contract is up in a year just like pauls and howards...(at leat that's what i read)

So - are you willing to take that risk that after 18 months he moves on?

I'd give them Brand/Iggy/Jrue/ET for Millsap/Deron Williams/filler or big Al if they insist.

Iggy/Deron wouldn't work together imo. Deron needs ball in his hands. Iggy's atleticism would be great, but you can find that for MLE imo, you want to try and find a catch and shoot player on your wing, and Jodie isn't a long term solution.

sfw reply to Statman on Feb 10 at 16:19

Here's a possible trade.

Incoming Players
Andrei Kirilenko
29.5 year old , 6-9, 225 lb F from CSKA Moscow (Russia)
11.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 2.9 apg in 32.6 minutes
Deron Williams
26.5 year old , 6-3, 210 lb G from Illinois
21.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 9.5 apg in 37.8 minutes
Jeremy Evans
23 year old , 6-9, 196 lb F from Western Kentucky
3.1 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6.3 minutes

Outgoing Players
Andre Iguodala
27 year old , 6-6, 207 lb F-G from Arizona
14.6 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.0 apg in 37.2 minutes
Andres Nocioni
31 year old , 6-7, 225 lb F from Saski Baskonia (Spain)
7.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 19.7 minutes
Jason Kapono
30 year old , 6-8, 213 lb F from UCLA
0.8 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 0.1 apg in 5.2 minutes
Jrue Holiday
20.5 year old , 6-3, 180 lb G from UCLA
13.5 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 6.3 apg in 34.8 minutes

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5843171#ixzz1DapucErZ

sfw reply to sfw on Feb 10 at 16:23


Incoming Players
Deron Williams
Mehmet Okur

Outgoing Players
Andre Iguodala
Jason Kapono
Jrue Holiday

If you can get out of Iguodala's contract, take back Deron, free up cap space+get a role player by moving ET+brand deadline before 2012 Summer..... DWIGHT HOWARD!!!!!!!!!!

Unless of course the NBA institutes a hard cap this off season

And the contract that is a problem is Brand, not Iguodala, you keep iguodala because Deron Iguodala and Howard wouldn't be half bad I don't think

way to ruin the euphoria.

Delusions are bad for your psyche

Like nate robinson bad

Two sources close to the situation told ESPN.com's Marc Stein that Sloan reacted angrily during Wednesday night's home loss when guard Deron Williams called his own play on the floor different from the play Sloan called from the sideline.

That led to an emotional dispute at halftime, sources said, which was followed by Sloan's closed-door meeting with O'Connor after the game.

But one source stressed that the play-calling flap was just one incident among a number of flare-ups in recent weeks, indicating Sloan's relationship with Williams has been deteriorating.

well now that sloan has resigned what's the point of trading dwill? sounds like it was one of those either he goes or i go situations.

I doubt he's traded this season. But I am very confident this move is a jab to the fan base to expect D-Will to be gone next year at trade deadline if things don't magically turn around with a new coach.

lol confident. I suspect*

I disagree

I think there was a conflict between Sloan and Williams and the Jazz chose Williams. They gave Sloan the out of resigning but he wasn't going to be brought back next year and they let him know it.

I think this is the kind of move that a team makes when trying to placate a potentially bolting free agent (18 months away) and that the next coach who comes in will be very Deron friendly.

but but but reply to GoSixers on Feb 10 at 16:35

Yeah, if next year deadline, the Jazz aren't contending, and are 6th seed or worse and get an offer ~Jrue+1st round pick. Jazz would be fools not to ship him out.

Well yeah, next year is an entirely different animal though.

If the NBA has 'franchise tags' by next year - the whole leaving super star takes on an entirely different tenor

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 10 at 17:38

If the NFL is any guide, the Franchise tag is a bad idea. It works well in terms of strengthening a team's negotiating position, but once used that player almost always leaves within a year.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Feb 10 at 17:48

placating to the needs of the free agent to be superstar has worked out well for so many franchises so far...

Well I didn't say it was a good idea, I'm just saying it's kind of what it smells like.

tk76 reply to johnrosz on Feb 10 at 18:03

Agree. The Jazz following the trend of catering to their big name players- hoping the won't bolt in 2 years. This will be to the Jazz's detriment, just like what happened in Cleveland and what is evolving in Orlando.

Team's making bad decisions to appease their stars... only to have the star leave in 2 years and the team a mess in their wake.

Tray reply to tk76 on Feb 10 at 18:09

I don't know what Cleveland did to placate LeBron that's hurt them. Trading for Jamison was a sensible move to win a title; unfortunately, Brown, offensively at least, was a moron and couldn't figure out how to integrate him. Then they fired Brown and hired Scott. Well, that's certainly a downgrade, but I don't think Brown would be doing much better with this roster. They may have had a Hickson + things offer for Amare on the table that they declined; if so, that, more than anything else, was what killed their franchise. LeBron and Amare might well have won the Finals and LeBron might still be there today (then again, if Amare bolted he'd probably still leave). In any event, now they're really lousy and will get some great draft picks for at least a couple years. If they draft right, they'll be good again.

tk76 reply to Tray on Feb 10 at 18:37

I thought the Jamison and Shaq moves were bad. but I guess if you are only focussed about that 1 year then they can be explained.

Tray reply to tk76 on Feb 10 at 19:16

One championship's worth a lot of cap issues, and with the best record in the league and best player in the league, one of the best defenses in the league, the only problem being the lack of legit second options, I think you do those sorts of things.

Geeeeeeeo.0 on Feb 10 at 17:09


Jerry sloan press conference live. Not started yet.

This sounds pretty awful, certainly changes my perception of Williams:

After repeated clashes with star point guard Deron Williams(notes) and a belief he had become undermined with ownership, Jerry Sloan resigned as the Utah Jazz coach after 23 seasons, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The increasingly contentious relationship between Sloan and Williams boiled over when they clashed at halftime of a loss to the Chicago Bulls on Wednesday night. The showdown between Sloan and Williams became so heated on Wednesday, at least two Jazz players feared that the coach and star could come to blows – even though the confrontation ended before reaching that point...

“He decided right there in halftime that he was done,” a league source told Yahoo! Sports. “He felt like ownership was listening more to Williams than they were to him anymore. He was done.”

tk76 reply to Tray on Feb 10 at 18:04
johnrosz reply to Tray on Feb 10 at 18:36

wonder what the reception will be like for DWill at their next home game. Could be ugly.Sloan is the face of the franchise

Tom Moore on Feb 10 at 18:20

Turner expected to play Friday after suffering back spasms:


Utah is hosed - given the choice, I would have kept Sloan and traded Williams. Keep it quiet at all costs and maximize your return.

When Williams gets painted as the bad guy, he'll get pissed and leave via FA, Utah is left trying to build around Al Jefferson (see Timberwolves, Minnesota).

tk76 reply to CM on Feb 10 at 18:47

Looking at their contracts: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah.htm

They could have positioned themselves to have Deron, Milsap and a ton of cap space (Howard?) in 2 seasons- if they could get a taker for Al Jeff a year early.

The problem is, no way Howard goes to SLC to live, so they are sort of hosed from the get go...


No Radio Show TOnight?

Unfortunately, no. Life intervened.

Tom Moore on Feb 11 at 0:15

Sixers to face Spurs team that just keeps winning:


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