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Thad - I guess - this is the end of my list

NBA source: Sixers "not going to" trade Marreese Speights to Blazers for Dante Cunningham, second-round pick.

Cunningham is an undersized 4. The Sixers already have Young and Nocioni.

Tom, do you think Speights sudden reappearance in the rotation last night was a bit of a showcase?

I'm just going with 'good match up / let's see if he's learned anything' - mostly because he got no second half burn.

I don't. I think it was because Houston's bigs are fairly small. Really think Collins plays who he thinks gives him the best chance to win that night.

Kapono is probably the best chance to be traded, though I hear there's not much interest. That's still a long shot.

Would doubt Iguodala gets moved.

Do any of those sources know if the sixers came back with 'how about camby'?

Don't think Camby is on the Sixers' radar screen. They're thinking more "big picture," as I understand it, vs. short term.

What's your gut feeling, Tom, any moves made by the deadline? Anything major in the works?

Do the sixers realize that 'big picture' they need a center who doesn't, you know, stink?

I'd be curious to know if Thorn or Doug thinks Hawes is a long term solution at that position.

Oh my goodness, I hope not. If that's the case we should just quit now.

For me it's

Thad (hopefully not on a crazy contract)
Brand (MLE level deal, if he's still productive)
Meeks (cheap shooter off the bench)

That's pretty much it. Unfortunately, I think Nocioni will have retired by then. Huge loss.

Don't care much about Meeks...he's one of those fungible streaky guys that are easy to find. Thad is an iffy part of my list because at the level he's at now I don't think he's a valuable long term investment.

Jrue, Evan, Andre, those are starters...the rest - they aren't starters to me and while a bench is important - at some point it would be nice if the sixers started 5 guys who WOULD start on most teams.

I like Meeks as a guy who can come in and knock down shots from time to time, assuming he stays cheap. He doesn't kill you on the defensive end, like a lot of guys who fit that role around the league do.

petergw11 on Feb 17 at 12:12

1. Andre- he's the only sure thing we have 3 years from now, elite defender, best all around player, and will be a huge piece on any contender
2. Jrue- our court general and second best player
3. ET
4. Thad- have to still believe in his upside
5. Lou- not a bad 6th guy for the money.
6. jodie meeks- i like this kid, has a lot of room for growth, adds a nice dimension to the team, and has an easily manageable contract.
7. speights- getting into the take it or leave it range. i guess i'm just not ready to give up on him for the right price but i wouldn't be crushed if he were moved for a better piece.

after that everyone is replaceable imo, probably including speights, meeks and lou but i wouldn't mind having those guys.

You really think Andre will still be that good in 3 years.

I am worried about his longevity.

petergw11 reply to Jason on Feb 17 at 14:57

I don't see why not. he'll be 30, so he'll be towards the end of his peak, but he should still be an effective defender and a key piece. he'll only be around 800 GP so he should have enough left in the tank.

i'm actually pretty surprised to see not as many people rating him as high in this thread. he is far and away the most talented and athletic player on the team right now. he was further along than Jrue and ET at that point of his career. I'm all for rooting for upside and for Jrue and ET to step up and be the 1st and 2nd options, but i think in 3 years time AI9 will still be the best player on the team, unless we acquire a superstar with the Brand money.

maybe i'm just more down on the ceiling of the 2 young guys than most.

jkay reply to petergw11 on Feb 17 at 17:00

"he was further along than Jrue and ET at that point of his career."

interesting thing you said just there. I often wonder, mostly bcos of Speights and Thad debacles, how good you can project a player will be from his early years. Iguodala by his 2nd year was already looking like the player he is now. I'm still waiting to see the star point guard everyone keeps telling me we have on this roster. Don't get me wrong I'm a Jrue fan but I don't use age as a crutch. Wonder if he can make that leap in his 3rd year when he starts to get everything down? And of course concerning Turner, I'm highly concerned already.

I just wrote a article in a Taiwan Forum about this.

When we re-check our roster, we should take a look about the storyteller contract.

Iguodala / Turner / Holiday will be our best 1-2-3 lineup in not only 3y but 8+ years.
We should place it on the keeper list first, and make sense about others.

Thad Young is a rookie-contract now, but it will cost a lot of budget when we list it on the keeper list, because at the same time, Jeff Green will ask a long contract with a lot of dollars. If I'm Thad's agent, I will chase for a possible largest extension, Rod Thorn should take it? I don't think so. If we let him become a RFA, we will take no reward left on the table.

Lou's 5-year contract is a bargain, but next?

My best idea is: Lou and Thad (I wanna put Nocioni inside) will be the hot item on the market, we should use them chase for a long-tern Center.

Mo Speights is my keeper list: potential and abilities always make sense, He'll be fine if Coach Doug will keep to push him around. He's upside still out there.

Brand a MLE-Scale Contract, no doubt.

Jodie still have a chance becoming a excellent shooter, I will keep it in my keeper list.

so my keeper list is:
Andre Iguodala
Jrue Holiday
Evan Turner
Elton Brand
Mo Speights
Jodie Meeks

Could we have a chance signing Sammy back? or Deal our hot items for Enes Kanter?


3 years is a long time. Will Lou lose quickness/ability to score over that span versus a new (younger) guy (draft or trade) that will be cheaper or equivalant?

I'd love to see Brand build a case for the MLE. Hell, this is the 6ers! We'll keep him even if he doesn't!

deepsixersuede on Feb 17 at 13:04

1] Iggy
2] Turner
3] Jrue
4] Thad

Do you guys think Thad could grow into a 20 ppg. and 8 reb. starting p.f. ? With Jrue, Iggy and Evan at the 1,2,and 3 and a center that averages a double/double could that work?

8 rebounds per game? No I don't think thad could do that

deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 13:15

Brian raises an interesting point; if Brand resigns in a B.Wallace type role could he and Thad switch roles and switch m.p.g. on the floor and still be an effective combo?

It would be a blessing to have a big man who defends as well as Ben Wallace.

Would anyone consider a Thad plus expiring to Charlotte for Boris Diaw? Diaw has 1 yr left at 9M. He could fill Thad's role off the bench and we'd relieve the dilemna of to sign Thad or not?

And why would we do that deal? Diaw is probably worse than Young right now...

sfw reply to Xsago on Feb 17 at 13:24

I don't know that. Different game, same position. 1 more year at 9 mil versus 5 more years at 9 plus mil. Do you want to commit that money to Thad?

You are not forced to keep him. Besides i think Young will get a contract in the 7-8 million range which is OK for his contribution and room for growth. Restricted free agency + the new CBA agreement won't help his cause if he wants a ridiculous contract.

Hmm, well i think the keepers need to be grouped in 3 tiers. So,

1st tier (Borderline untouchable)

Jrue - no need for explanation. He'll be a great PG as soon as he matures and gets enough experience.
Turner - All he needs to do is improve his shot (which i think is realistic) and get more experience. It's difficult for a player like him to play his natural role on a winning team (not many, if any have done it) as a rookie. He'll be fine. Give him 2-3 years.

2nd tier (they can be moved/let go only if it immediately results in something better)

Young - I think he can be a key player on a winning team. whether he starts or comes of the bench depends on his teammates. And i think somewhere between 7 and 7.5 milion per year is a good price for him. Remeber he is still very young and improving.
Iguodala - No reason to trade him for nothing. If he can be used to acquire a key piece (e.g. a star big man) i'm fine with it. But no trades just to make a trade.

3rd tier (It's not a disaster if they are not here, but it makes sense to keep them long term)

Meeks - There are a lot of role players in the league. Some are good, most are bad. I believe Meeks can be a good role player in a few years. Smart teams keep those guys long term on smart contracts.
Brand - His game isn't based on athleticism anymore. There is no reason to think he will slow down (at least on a per minute basis) in the next 5 years or so.

Everybody else is expendable.

Of course i also believe in the nobody is untouchable paradigm. For the right deal everyone should always be available.

sfw reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 13:32

If we could get him for expirings(to help them resign Jorden) plus Hawes and/or Speights, go for it.

Kaman is really a terrible offensive player, like worse than Hawes terrible in that he has a really high usage rate and terrible scoring efficiency. He's been a good rebounder and decent shotblocker, though. How many times can that writer call him an All Star in one story?

Well you know me, I'll take a defensive upgrade.

Anyone know without looking it up how brand/kaman worked together in LA?

I think it worked really well in they year when the Clippers made the playoffs. They've been through a lot of injuries between them though...

Pretty well that one year they went to the playoffs. Otherwise, bleh. I find it amazing that a guy who produces so inefficiently has been allowed to have usage rates up to 28%. Then again, Cousins is worse than Kaman, and his usage rate is up there to, so who knows.

dwhite reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 14:08

Yeah, Kaman's a black hole on offense (takes as many shots as Lou Williams per 36 minutes, and scores far less efficiently). I don't know about his defense, doesn't look like he's got a powerful enough build to do more than swat a few shots and use his length to grab boards. I don't think he's that much of an upgrade over Spencer Hawes at this point, and he gets paid a lot more. I guess with Kaman expiring after next season it's a low risk type move, but I'd rather have the extra cash from the expirings to re-sign Thad to a decent deal than have Kaman for a year.

Finally, someone asked the question and prof. Hollinger was kind enough to answer:

Nigel (Chestnut Hill, MA)

I think a strong case could be made the Iguodala is the best wing defender in the league -- do you agree? His "shutdown" list this year is impressive: Kobe 9, Carmelo 12, Granger 7, Pierce 10 and 11, Ginobili 8, Joe Johnson 6, and most recently Kevin Martin 9. When will he get some national recognition?
John Hollinger (1:02 PM)

He's always been underrated at that end, and I thought he'd get more acclaim after he served as Team USA's stopper this summer, but it hasn't come. But best wing defender? Sorry, that's Tony Allen. Sky-high foul rate, so he can't do it for as long, but when he's on the court he's flat-out ridiculous.

Allen's good, but he doesn't have the size to check the bigger SFs. Iguodala plays 36 minutes of defense on the opposing team's best scorer, and shuts them down. If Allen isn't capable of doing that because he fouls so much, then he inherently isn't as good as Iguodala.

Well lets not get too picky. At least he got some "air time" on ESPN. That's a start... He should get more from here on out, i hope...

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 17:47

Also, fouls = foul-shots.

Rich reply to Xsago on Feb 17 at 14:12

Statman getting through!

Hah, that's hilarious. I asked the question right before I got on a conference call for work (that just ended), didn't even know that it had gotten in.

By the way, I would also put Tony Allen among my top 5 wing defenders. The Sixers found out about him the hard way in both games against the Grizzlies this year ...

Rich reply to Statman on Feb 17 at 15:00

Why did Boston get rid of Allen? He wasn't commanding more money than Delonte, right? That seems like a no-brainer in that role I'd want Allen with West being a head case and all.

1. Turner--outstanding ball control (his turnovers are ridiculously low for a rookie), great defender, great rebounder, great passer (especially on the fast break). His shot will undoubtedly improve and be fine (rookies who shoot 80+% from the line tend to be fine shooters).

2. Jrue--steal of the 2009 draft, has some sloppy games and had a really bad run of games after Iggy returned, but that's because he's 20. He'll be an excellent backcourt mate to Turner.

3. Thad--another great draft pick, Thad has ridiculous offensive skills and is still only 22. I'm hoping the new CBA lets us keep him without a huge overpayment. But I think we need to overpay him if necessary, the Sixers are not a team that can attract a free agent with Thad's talent/youth to replace him. What good is the money saved in not overpaying Thad if we can't replace him with anything better than a Travis Outlaw / Al Harrington type? Everyone is overpaid, Thad at least is very young and brings the goods.

4. Brand--barring injury, he'll be consistent for several more years.

5. Iggy--I like Iggy and he's great defensively and a good passer. I'm not against trading him in the right deal but I don't think equal value is possible so keep him.

6. Hawes--obviously I'm in the extreme minority here. I see skills in Hawes, he has some moves, he can put it in the hoop, his rebounding has really improved, and whenever he's on the floor, the opposing team's center usually doesn't do much (and vice versa, when he's on the bench, the opposing team's center obliterates us). I think Hawes can be re-signed at a cheaper price than guys like Gasol and Gortat, and his per-36 production is comparable. Considering the big money we'll have to shell out to keep the Turner/Holiday/Thad youth core, I don't see where the money is to spend big on a center. Hawes is the best option to me, and he fits the age group, same age as Turner/Thad and two years older than Jrue.

In 3 years - you would prioritize Brand over Iguodala?

Yeah because of position. Iggy's production is somewhat replaceable by Turner/Thad. Brand's production is irreplaceable in the pool of current Sixer players, we have no other power forward with any ability.

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 15:02

In 3 years you can re-sign Brand for 1/3rd of what Iguodala will make.

You know when people talk about re-signing Elton Brand after his contract is up I flash back to broken down chris webber

over/under on comments after putting Hawes on the keeper list? 10? :)

haha. I dig watching the man play, every time he gets a slam I go nuts!

You like watching when the opposing team gains possession and he jogs back and lets his man beat him down the court every time?

Chunky, is Camby above Turner on your priority list or did you leave him at number three?

Lol. It's true that I may have been partially blinded by the combination of the Sixers good run lately and the atrocity that is Hawes's defense. But I think I would still go with Turner. :)

Haha, your persistence to get Camby is admirable, glad you got the joke too.

I honestly do enjoy watching Hawes jog back down the floor. He's got this crazy limp-wrist thing going on when he jogs, it just cracks me up.

btw, that isn't a homophobic crack, he seriously has a limp wrist when he jogs up and down the floor, pay attention next game, you'll see it.

Rich reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 14:34

I've noticed that before, he also tends to scrunch his face and grimace along with the limp wrist move.

Yep, he's the token Hawes fan. Like Hawes will miss six sissy hooks, then make one and I can count the seconds until he comments on the great move Hawes just made :)

To each, his own.

Haha, gotta have a token Hawes fan!

Jrue and Turner have to be one-two on mostly everyone's list in some order, right?

No one has any love for craig brackins.

That's sad

Bob Cooney told us "Not to sleep on Brackins." So yeah, I don't think he's going to amount to anything. That trade wasn't about adding Brackins, it was about subtracting Lou and Smith.

If only we had subtracted lou :)

Here's my issue - if Thorn was 'hot' for brackins - i'm not sure i want this guy near the sixers draft


Bill Simmons on Turner. Don't agree about the Rondo thing, but I like the praise-

Instead of mentioning Mount Bustmore (Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Hasheem Thabeet and Adam Morrison) every time we wonder if a high lottery pick might be a draft bust, I thought it would be easier to rename those four guys Kwarko Beetison, who absolutely sounds like someone Chris Wallace would have drafted. Anyway, Turner's Kwarko potential has dwindled to zero: He's contributing to an overachieving playoff team, he's had a few "I AM NOT UNAFRAID OF THIS MOMENT!" games, and he's the only draft pick since 2007 capable of submitting one of those wacky, Rondo-esque 12-17-15 box-score lines someday. Go on eBay, steal some of his rookie cards and thank me later.

Hate this guy so much

over achieving my ass

There's no celtics 'pain' i'd take more pleasure in than Simmons if the sixers somehow beat them in the playoffs.

Ugh, you kill me sometimes. 24-16 is overachieving for this group of players over the past 40. You can at least admit that much, no?

Sure - but you're the one who doesn't like to ignore specific games - so you can't ignore 3-13

You are what your record says you are - they're a sub 500 team - that's not over achieving - that's pretty close to what they were before Eddie Jordan - again - they're only seen as over achieving through the lens of eddie jordan suckage (like last year they were seen as under achieving through the lens of eddie jordan suckage)

Plus - he's a celtics fan - so he is inherently evil

He is inherently evil, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. And he didn't specify what he meant by overachieving, you drew the inference that he was talking about the entire season. A more open-minded man may look at it as "overachieving recently" or "overachieving after a rocky start to the season."

You say open minded I say overly optimistic about the future and roster make up of this team :)

and as far as I'm concerned, they're absolutely overachieving, no matter what sample size you want to look at. I looked at this roster heading into the season and didn't see more than 32 wins. I looked at the stats and saw a picture that had them at somewhere between 20-27 wins. They're much, much better than I thought they would be at this point of the season, so they're overachieving based on my expectations. They're overachieving based on pretty much everyone but a nutter's expectations for the season back in October.

They've essentially lost their best interior defender and somehow become a top-ten defense in the league. They've won as many games in 56 as they did in 82 last year. I mean, I'm not even sure what you're argument is here. You're saying Collins is an average coach and Jordan cost the team 15-20 wins last season? Or maybe 25, considering the loss of Dalembert? And a real good coach would have them what, 15 games above .500 right now?

See - here's my problem.

They 'lost' Sam - fine - whatever - people keep harping on it.

They GAINED as well - they gained a coach with a clue - a healthy (and less heavy possibly) elton brand, they gained a more nba mature Jrue Holiday just bby the fact that his rookie year is over, they gained Jodie Meeks being better than he was last year.

They Gained more than they lost over all in my opinion, the pre season projections will all skewed by the lens of eddie jordan being a douche in my estimation.

(and the season ain't over yet)

Oh yeah - they GAINED by getting rid of willie green and jason smith

So you were expecting a .500 year back in October?

I also fell victim to jordanitis as i predicted probably 30-35 wins

And they ain't 500 yet

So they've overachieved then, based on what you expected them to achieve.

but my estimate was low based on the eddie jordan prism - i fell victim to it and then started examining it and realized that jordan was responsible for a lot more of garbage then i thought he was - i gave him a pass on a lot of things in the off season (go back and read it) but have come to realize (and yes I can admit it - though many here can't) that i was wrong. Jordan is responsible for almost every disastorous thing last year.

You don't see a little bit of a problem with setting expectations, looking at results, then adjusting your expectations after the fact just so you don't have to say they're overachieving?

OK, how about this. Now you have all the data in front of you. You know who's on this team, at what level they're capable of playing, etc. How many wins do you expect them to finish the season with? Just give me that number, and if they top it, then will you admit that they overachieved?

I think I would look at it in the context of the standings. The talent level on the Sixers is higher than any team below them in the standings, in my opinion. Their talent level is probably about equal to the Knicks, and clearly below the top 5. So Collins has them just about right, which makes sense, since he's going a great job at motivation (they play as hard as any team in the league) and defense (quite a good defensive team despite no shotblockers), but a relatively puzzling job with in-game decisions (Lou isos, Brand at the 5 all the time, etc.).

I do agree with GoSixers that the meme that Collins is doing an "amazing" job with the "overachieving" Sixers is mostly due to the mess Eddie Jordan made of a relatively OK basketball team. I look at this roster and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be as good as the Cheeks/DeLeo teams that won 40 games.

For the record, I did expect the Sixers to win about 40-42 games (not sure if I posted it here, so I guess you'll just have to take me at my word!). I think Collins is doing a good job. He's showing the difference between a good coach and a terrible coach. But he's not working a complete miracle here.

I look at this roster and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be as good as the Cheeks/DeLeo teams that won 40 games.

So - they're not so much over achieving as they are achieving compared to what they did pre jordan - which is my point - any half assed coach would look amazing after the job jordan did

You and the president of the Spencer Hawes fan club agree :)

Yeah I do think most good coaches would look amazing after what Eddie Jordan did. But in defense of Collins, at the same time there aren't very many good coaches out there.

Look at Tom Thibodeau in Chicago or Monty WIlliams in New Orleans

There are more good coaches out there than people think - just in the NBA more so than a lot of leagues 'retreads' are the only option many teams would look at.

I mean isn't Greg Popovich still on his 'first' job. I'd be interested to see what people thought of him when he was hired.

Everyone wants the retreads - that's why the rat keeps getting work

Donovan reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:06

This coming from the guy who didn't want Thibodeau as coach because the fact that he wasn't already hired meant that he had too many 'red flags.' The idea that he wasn't the best interviewer in the world meant that he didn't have enough 'communication skills' to be a good coach. Now you want to praise him. Let's just face the fact that you cannot evaluate coaching talent.

Gee - I love internet stalkers - they're so much more pathetic individuals.

Not only did you make the same comment twice, you conveniently did so before reading the post where I admitted I was wrong about Thibodeau, but I understand, it's obvious you only post under this screen name (whatever your other is) to insult me - I suppose I should be flattered but really it's just sad and pathetic that you care so much about what goes on on an internet blog to be such a petty little girl.

Donovan reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:16

Wow. Look at all this venom just because I am right. Who's the petty girl?

I believe your prediction, mainly because I think you added about 10 wins to the Sixers total when they swooped in and stole Hawes from the Kings.

They're a sub 500 team that BLEW a perfect opportunity to be 500 - and that was before Evan Turner took out Rudy Gay.

I know people want to call it one game but I think it's the reason the sixers don't rise above being mediocre - that flat ass performance against a game that had every reason for them to come out at the top of their game.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 14:57

I just don't get why you are so hung up on one game. Memphis is playing great ball right now, they definitely had something to do with it.

The .500 mark is important in fan's minds, but it's just another win on the road to improving for the team. So when they blew an opportunity, it's not really something tangible like closing out a series or something. So it's not like they are going to treat the game any different then they always do: Don't get too high with a win or too low with a loss. Even if they won, they could have lost last night and been in the same spot. It's not like, "We need to get to .500 tonight, or this is going to weigh on our minds."

I explained perfectly why I have issues with the game - I'm hung up on it because I think it's a symptom of a deeper problem - and I've made that clear repeatedly.

I'm not sure why you can't comprehend that.

It's troubling. As troubling as the piss poor defense (ignored) that the sixers played for most of last night :)

This season was never about wins and losses to me (as i've said repeatedly as well) so it's not about the loss it's about how it came about and why weren't they ready after a good rest and the whole (i consider very stupid but it matters to other people) 'revenge' factor

How did it come about? A bad start, two really solid quarters, then they ran out of gas. That describes about 90% of road losses for every team in the NBA.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 15:15

Maybe I hadn't read into your comments well enough, but what is the deeper problem that the loss is a symptom of?

That's great to read, thanks. Wasn't Simmons down on Turner before? First time I've seen a semi-national writer say anything good about Turner (although most opponents' announcers heap some praise on him).

Rich reply to stoned81 on Feb 17 at 14:39

I'm a huge fan of his so I keep up with him. Yes he was down on Turner early in preseason, went to the first Heat game and was impressed, and I guess he's paid some attention recently.

Solid. thx

I'm a big fan too but as a Sixers fan it does suck that you know he probably hasn't seen one Sixers game all year. Otherwise he wouldn't have lumped Jrue in with DJ and Collison and would have given Iguodala at least an honorable mention.

Rich reply to DonH on Feb 17 at 15:58

I just said he went to the Heat game!

I would put the number at 3, that one and the two Celtics games.

Haha yea it probably is 3, although I wouldn't be surprised if he missed either of the Sixers/Celtics games.

He is probably the most popular ESPN writer, so it would be nice if he could bring some attention to Iguodala's fantastic all-around play. But sadly, he probably views him like the rest of the nation: overpaid with a crappy jumper.

Loul Deng - same draft - pretty much same contract - but he seems to get a pass from everyone and he's got chronic injury issues (which i feel are a much bigger problem than a couple off shooting nights from a guy who really didn't miss much time his entire career due to injury until this year)

(Disclaimer, I wanted Deng over Iguodala before the draft)

Rich reply to DonH on Feb 17 at 16:24

From the World Championships, kind of like a backhanded compliment, but some credit nonetheless:

"One of the frustrating things about this tournament: Iguodala has been a revelation as a fourth banana/swing defender/energy guy/uber-athlete, which really should have been his NBA destiny -- mega-glue guy on a great team, like a much more devastating version of Trevor Ariza on the 2008-09 Lakers -- only we don't have nearly enough quality players to fill 30 NBA teams, so instead he's forced to carry a lottery team, take terrible shots, play with inferior teammates and do everything that the basketball gods never meant for him to do. He's like Roger Sterling in "Mad Men" -- you don't want him carrying the show, but in short doses, harnessed correctly, he can be a weapon. I had given up on Iguodala as a meaningful basketball player; now I think he'll be reincarnated on a contender within the next two seasons. He's one trade away."

Yea I remember that one...I don't think Bill does though.

Rich reply to DonH on Feb 17 at 16:31

Yeah, he has a shtick and he keeps to it. He makes plenty of good points, but the key to enjoying him is to not be upset when he says something dumb. Main purpose for him is to entertain, and he does a good job of that.

He also thought Doug Collins was going to make no difference this year.

"Main purpose for him is to entertain, and he does a good job of that."

Agreed 100%

not sure what Kate is smoking with Turner at a 10% chance of being traded, equal to Songaila. There is no way he's on the block.

Everyone on the sixers is tradeable in the right deal - there are very few untradeable players.

Kobe's untradeable - but suppose the heat called up and said let's trade lebron for kobe - straight up - the lakers suddenly remember magic johnson and how old kobe is and say hell yes.

Yes, it's outside the realm of possibility but there are very few untradeables in the NBA.

If Turner could be moved to get a REAL star (not a fake one like Melo) I'd approve as long as jrue brand and iguodala weren't leaving

Jrue (the only stone cold lock)
Turner (please be good)
Thad (hopefully not too overpaid)
Brackins (Thorn's guy- might surprise people)
Brand (cheap extension)
Lou (torn, since he could be an asset if properly deployed)
Speights (I've lost all hope in him)

I included nearly everyone but Hawes, since most of these guys could have some value in the right roles.

I downgrade Iguodala some based on his contract, fit and that some of his talents could be accounted for by other (cheaper) teammates still on their rookie deals.

I upgrade Thad, because I'm intrugued by what he might become if he continues to add 10-15 lbs of muscle each year. He might be unstoppable at 6'8" 245. Sort of athletically like an LBJ with a better touch/jumper but absent the elite floor/point game.

Thad seems like a guy dedicated to basketball. And a guy who already is unstoppable in certain settings. He will never be a good rebounder- but he will no longer be at a physical disadvantage as he puts on more muscle. The guy could end up being flat out scary.

And I'm not selling low on Brackins! So ai guess me and Thorn are his only fans. Good for him that Thorn is the only one that counts.

Speights (I've lost all hope in him)

I haven't, but sadly Collins has it seems

tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 15:20

A big thing with both Brackin's and Young is there frames. Some guys are wiry and can't bulk up. Whereas Thad looks like he can continue to add muscle without losing his quickness or explosiveness- and that is rare.

Compare Thad to Hakim Warrick- a guy with a similar role and skill set. Warrick will always be skinny, so it limits how you can use him. While Thad has really bulked up in the last few years. I think he could get to Lebron Sized. Look at this recent picture to see just how much bigger Thad is:


As for Brackins- he's 23. So I wonder if he will be a skinny shooter (say a shorter Fry) or if he can bulk up to where he can bang.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 15:23

One thing that's always perplexed me about Thad is that I think he has a shotblocker's mentality. Back to when he was a rookie, you could see that he just sort of had that skill to come from the weak side and block shots. I do believe it's something guys either have or don't have, and he seemed to have it. It's never really developed much since then, but it still pops up occasionally. Playing an undersized four or three doesn't really lend itself to that, unless it's a focus (like w/ Josh Smith), but I do think he could help in protecting the rim, probably more than our "centers" outside of Brand.

Anyway, neither here nor there, just something that came to mind while you were admiring Thad's physique.

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 15:56

He's no Anthony Mason or Mailman. But its a huge improvement from the days of Shawn Bradley and his 20,000 calorie diet.

So good to see the Sixers come back to respectability after last years disaster. I love how eveything is coming together as far as everyone has defined roles on the team when they go in they know exactly what their supposed to do and now we are seeing the real Thad and what he is capable of and though Lou can't play defense he can turn that switch on and score. Now if we had a nice Center someone other teams had to worry about would this be a 50 win team possibly, or do more changes need to be made? Great Job so far Doug so glad to see him having success he is a good coach and they play hard for him every night.

It's not bad enough philaphans steals from this web site and calls it their own content?

tk76 reply to GMAN on Feb 17 at 16:07

Especially regarding Thad, Collins has lived up to his promise of removing the negatives while putting him in a position to shine.

It is strange that Collins said in training camp that Thad would be 100% SF, and then completely switched gears- but I can't argue with the results.

That comment he made about Thad was a silly thing to say until you get them in game action. I would love for Thad to be a 3 and Iguodala to be a 2 - but I've accepted it's just not going to happen.

Now I just want Turner to evolve to starting so Meeks can take his rightful place on the bench as kyle korver 2.0

Agreed. Thad could be devastating as a SF posting up other SFs. Of course, you probably need big men to stretch the floor to be able to do that. The Sixers don't have that right now or even enough quality big men to be able to play Thad minutes at SF.

I doubt Collin will mess with what's working right now in regards to Meeks, but if Turner doesn't go into next year as the unquestioned starting SG Collins is an idiot.

Rich reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 16:42

That's funny, I don't remember him saying that. I do remember this one from his opening press conference:

"I thought when Andre was a two and Thaddeus was a three, they were both out of position. When Andre is a three and Thaddeus a four, that team won 40 games."

My big thing with Thad at the 3 is that he really hasn't shown even the ability to be a little below average defensively at that position.

Yeah, he started out really early saying Thad's a three, he flopped some time in the preseason.

I don't have my rotation sheet on this computer, but I think it's been a long time since Thad has even sniffed the three.

OK, so this is a list of 6 somewhat available Centers that i think.


Who do you like the most? I don't think acquiring a C has to be done at this deadline but definitely in the offseason at the latest.

I excluded Camby and Nene, because i think they will be moved to another team in the next few days. Camby is too old for our team too outside of a one year rental.

Personally, i'm intrigued with Varejao. He strikes me as a winning type of player. Hustle, defense... We could use that. And he is a good teammate.

Also, is there anyone else that is somewhat available and is worthy of being targeted?

Well, you're talking about a ton of money for Okafor, a little less for Varejao, but still a significant amount. Varejao is a good defender, I just hate the way he defends, but that's a personal taste sort of thing. Biedrins is expensive as well, with some serious problems. Kaman is garbage, but at least his contract isn't that long. I'd love to have Gortat or Perkins (though I hate Perkins w/ a passion), but I don't see Perkins leaving Boston and who knows what the hell Phoenix is going to do.

Tops on my list is still DeAndre Jordan. I'd actually consider that Speights/Cunningham deal just to clear a little more cap space next summer to be able to make a bigger offer for Jordan if I knew what the CBA was going to look like, but with the CBA up in the air, it's just too much of a risk. Like trading away all your picks to get under the cap enough to sign Raymond Felton.

Varejao must agree to a hair cut if he comes to Philadelphia

Sixers can't get perkins or varejao - lack the contract room (for perkins) or the assets for Varejao.

If we're looking at the off season - finding a way to over pay tyson chandler is a possibility too

I believe there is zero chance Chandler leaves Dallas. Cuban might give him a max contract to keep him.

Ditto for Jordan and the Clippers. Actually since Jordan was a second round pick, he can get close to 7-8 milion per year as a maximum i believe. So the Clippers will essentially give him their max. And he is restricted too so there is zero chance he leaves.

Perkins and Gortat are nice options but the least obtainable on that list IMO.

There's never zero chance someone leaves a team owned by Donald Sterling. If they can't move Kaman, and I'm not convinced they're even going to try, I seriously doubt Sterling will sign off on spending $18-20M on his center position, not when he's already got an All Star center he's paying $12M/year to.

And thus why I believe expiring contracts plus speights should be enough.

I keep seeing notes about Earl Barron being told to 'hold up' for the knicks cause they'll be signing him to a 10 day contract.

Why aren't the sixers using a 10 day contract to try and find a big who doesn't royally suck?

Because they're already paying Songaila to be their defensive big off the bench. Or at least that's what Kate Fagan thinks is going on.

I just threw up

Whens Battie coming back?

I just threw up again

WIth Battie hurt and Speights dead to Collins (and a roster space available) a 10 day contract makes sense - but could it be that comcast is THAT cheap? I hope not.

And what about brackins - collins hates him a lot?

Rich reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 15:59

Brackins right now looks like he's a bad defender, a really bad one.

Worse than Spawgaila (see what i did there, huh huh?)

Rich reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 16:09

Yeah, he might be. He's really undersized.

I don't get the Songaila thing though. That trade was garbage both ways.

It got rid of willie green - it was awesomesauce

Tom Thibodeau

"every game is a statement game."

Tom Thibodeau

"Keith Bogans is a starting two guard in the NBA."

It's not like he has better optoins and you can't under cut a player publicly unless you're eddie jordan.

I'm sure if they gave him a better two guard option to start - he'd start him.

Thibs favors defense first and of the motley band of options he has - Bogans is the best defender.

Noah's been out how long? Boozer is weak defensively - and that team is still near the top of the east. I know I said I had concerns about Thibs cause he kept not getting jobs, but he seems to be getting it done.

Or Luol Deng being healthy is much more impomrtant than people think :)

Bogans isn't even close to Brewer on the defensive end. Not even in the same neighborhood.

I'm gonna have to give the nod to Thibodeau that he knows what he's doing :)

Donovan reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:11

This coming from the guy who didn't want Thibodeau as coach because the fact that he wasn't already hired meant that he had too many 'red flags.' The idea that he wasn't the best interviewer in the world meant that he didn't have enough 'communication skills' to be a good coach.

philly.com is doing a "Grade the Sixers" thing right now. Most of the grades so far are, to my surprise, in line with what I would have given (my detailed grades will show up in a post tomorrow). The big shocker: 88% of respondents so far give Doug Collins an "A" (maybe this blog is more anti-Collins than I realize).

I'd give Collins an A on a macro level, probably a B on a micro level. If that makes sense.

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 16:43


Or maybe the philly.com readers are less informed and only look at this years record versus last years record.

I'd give him a B over all but certain categories I might grade him as low as a C-...

Jesus, how can anyone give Collins better than a C? He has successfully found a way to marginalize the 2 most important players to the sixers future.

Because the team is vastly out performing what it did last season - and for some people that's more than enough

John Hollingers 'under the radar' trade targets is up online (insider only) - I'll list the names (some names listed because of a high PER but are you surprised?), some of them baffle me as under the radar as their names are very out there.

Anthony Randolph
Brandon WRight
Ramon Sessions
Kurylo Fesenko (a guy both hollinger and IMG seem to love every year)
Derrick Brown (he's on the bobcats)
Luke Babbit
Courtney Lee
Ian Manhinimi
DOminique Jones
Jeff Teague

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