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SixersBeat Episode Tonight at 9PM Eastern - 02/17/11

Since the all star break is seen as the 'mid point' of the season (even though it's more closer to 2/3 of the season), how would you rate the sixers overall this year, or take it player by player (don't forget the coach and gm too :) ?

Who do you want to see the sixers get at the deadline and what would you give up to get them?

Thorn is not a Spring chicken. What do you think is his timetable for reshaping this team or is he just a semi-retired emeritus president who is there to make sure nobody does anything (too) stupid?

Doug Collins history indicates he's not long for the sixers. Should they start grooming someone and should it be aaron mckie?

About the 24-16 thing, isn't that somewhat belied by the fact that we were just as hot for stretches in many of the previous seasons, the Eddie year excepted? Isn't it normal for mediocre teams to play really well during one or another part of the season?

One or another being 50% of the season?

They aren't a 600 team any more than they're a 188 team (3-13)

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 18:05
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So the year we lost to Detroit in the first round, weren't we really good in the second half? Indeed, want to guess how we did in the last 40 games? 24-16. Or, the next year, after Cheeks was fired, how do you think we did in the next 42 games? 25-17.

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Tray reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 18:09
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And did we ever build on this .600 play the next year? Like after the 24-16 run, we go 9-14 under Cheeks the next year. After going 25-17 the next year's second half... okay, we hire Eddie. But then we hire Doug and go 3-13 at first. In 06-07, we ended the season by going 24-17. And the next year we started going 16-26.

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Tray reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 18:11
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So basically in 4 of the past 5 seasons, there has been a .600 run in the second half that has lasted 40 games. And the next year, we have unvariably been awful in the beginning of the season, have another .600 run to close out, and we end up having our typical .500 or slightly worse year.

Well, this season isn't over yet. As to your original statement, I think you have to find a couple of other "mediocre" teams who have played .600 ball over half a season before you can say this is typically what mediocre teams do. Otherwise all you're saying is the Sixers have done this in 4 of 5 years.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 23:25
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Well what difference does it make if other mediocre teams do it when WE do it all the time? You were saying the year we lost to Detroit that we had turned the proverbial corner. But in fact we continued to spin our .500 wheels for several more years. Obviously 40 games just doesn't always tell you the truth about a team. I think what we've done over the course of the whole season is the only true measure of what we are. It isn't as if we were suffering from major injuries in those first 16 games - Iguodala did miss 5, but we won two of them, and only 1 of the 11 he did play in, so it'd be hard to argue that his absence had anything to do with the start. Besides which, he missed 7 during our current 24-16 run, so it's about the same thing.

If you're asking what's changed since the first six games, why could the last 40 be more indicative than the first 16, there are several possible answers. Probably the most likely is that Collins was working with a roster full of guys he didn't know, who didn't know him. He was trying to figure out a rotation and they were trying to figure out what was expected of them.

Another thing I'd point out is that they haven't been up and down in the past 40. It hasn't been a six-game win streak, then three or four losses in a row to bad teams. It's been winning basketball against everyone and very few let downs (in the first 16, they lost 7 games to sub-.500 teams, they've only lost 4 to those teams since, 3 of those losses came without Iguodala).

Will this year be different than the last three times it happened? I have no idea. The first year, they got hot after acquiring Andre Miller. Then they lost Joe Smith and really didn't do anything else. They started slow and picked it up once Korver was traded and Young was inserted into the lineup.

The next year, they signed Brand and a couple other veterans, got off to a slow start probably because Brand wasn't fully healthy and Cheeks had no idea how to integrate him into the team. When Brand got hurt, they went back to essentially the same team they had the season before and performed very well the rest of the way.

The next season they let Miller walk and brought in Eddie Jordan, which isn't exactly a recipe for maintaining success, let alone improving on it.

So what's going to be different next year? I don't know. Same coach. The guy who leads the team in minutes will be 21 instead of 20. Turner will have a full year in the league. They'll have the same coach and the same system. You can say this is just like the other years, but there's more change than consistency between those teams and this one. And it may be the consistency from this year to next that stops the trend of slow starts/fast finishes.

Either way, I'm not sure exactly what you think I'm saying about this team. I'm not saying they're a contender, they're far from it. What I am saying is that Collins has elevated them to being a good team, not a mediocre team. The distinction between the two is obviously subjective, but I guess what I'm saying is that if they restarted the season today, and they played 82 games from this point on (not taking fatigue into account, obviously), I think they're probably between a 45 and 50 win team, and they'd be challenging for the 4 or 5 spot in the East. Hell, they may get to 45 wins even with the 3-13 start, so I'm not sure why this seems so absurd to you.

I do, however, agree with this as it relates to your favorite team, the Clippers.

I think what we've done over the course of the whole season is the only true measure of what we are.

The Clippers are a shitty team that has played an unbelievably favorable schedule and still only scraped together 21 wins.

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johnrosz reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 18:22
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the difference is that this year, they're doing it on the backs of a bunch of guys that are in their early 20's.

Aside from, you know, the two most important players on the team - sure...but elton and andre would not be mistaken by anyone for early 20s

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:12
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the literal larry act is old, give it a rest

Yes, and you being a jack ass is kind of tired as well.

You were dead wrong, completely in your assertion that they were doing it on the back of 'early 20s', which truly would be impressive if they were on this 600 ball run on the backs of guys in their early 20s, but they're not. You can't do math, or something, so you have to push it back on to me (personally as opposed to factually) for whatever reason.

I appreciate when you post - you are the second funniest poster here...

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:24
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says the guy who claims he can fix the psyche of Demarcus Cousins if you could just sit down and talk to him for an hour.

Yes, I'm the funny one...

You are so far gone it's absurd.

You're just beyond comical - thanks

I can't help that you're a douchenozzle who thinks that because you read what I write on the internet you think that you somehow know me...trust me, you don't have a clue about me...you can call me literal larry all you want to cover up that your basic assertion was FLAT OUT WRONG - or you could just say - whoops i screwed up cause iguodala and brand average out closer to 30 than 20 - you resorted to the name calling...as for my comments by cousins, i stand by them, and again, since you know very little that is REAL about me you have no clue - but that's ok - some day when you join the real world you'll learn that the internet isn't real...neither is that facebook girl who is hitting on you

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Concerned Dad reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:32
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Seriously. What is the point of this

Agreed. Let's cut this crap out.

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seriously reply to Concerned Dad on Feb 18 at 10:31
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This crap has been going on since Magee started frequenting this blog and it will NEVER cease. He has to every so often have someone to hold his hand and show him how to play nice with other kids. Oh, he's supposedly one of the oldest ones here -- yeah, that's funny, I know. He pumps up his internet tough guy image and eases his inferiority complex all in one, just from a blog. That, or he just didn't take his meds on time today.

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:39
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how about you just don't respond to what I say anymore? And I won't respond to what you say? This seems like a rational solution.

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Concerned Dad reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 20:25
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Why do you always flip out and resort to name calling? It doesn't help your arguments.

Great screen name.

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tk76 reply to Tray on Feb 17 at 18:51
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I posted this the other day:

Streaks of quality play and overall record and win % during streak and season:

2010/11: 40G (24W/16L)…26W-28L…60%/48%
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2009/10: 27G (15W-12L)…27W-55L…56%/33%
2008/09: 42G (27W-15L)…41W-41L…64%/50%
2007/08: 34G (24W-10L)…40W-42L…71%/49%
2006/07: 26G (17W-09L)…35W-47L…73%/43%

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 18:54
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Sorry, did not update their current record.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 18:56
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So by the numbers this streak is not even the most impressive one we've see in the last few years. Especially when compared to the team's overall record.

But easily forgotten due to the jordapocalypse

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 19:00
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I was surprised to see they had that 27 game streak of 56% winning ball under EFJ.

Would you be willing to take Amir Johnson for Kapono's epxiring without giving up any talent?

Sixers need young talent, maybe with them having Ed Davis and Bargns they might be willing to let him go to get out of his contract.

Same thing for Brendan Haywood and any other possible bad contracts that could net the sixers a front court upgrade.

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tk76 reply to Jason on Feb 17 at 19:15
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With "bad contracts" I'm generally for them if they expire the same time Brand does. Against them if they are longer than that.

would you take Desagna Diop?

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tk76 reply to Jason on Feb 17 at 20:15
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Its not so much the terrible contract as how bad he is as a player. They would have to throw in something valuable. But even then, I don't know if you can even put Diop on the floor.

According to some rumors I read today - Hasheem Thabeet has zero trade value - that made me laugh.

his upper body to lower body ratio is something that should be studied scientifically.

Just look at this list - it's not like there's just one player the griz could have taken - there's a large number (all the way down to the sixers pick there :)

http://www.nba.com/draft2009/

Thabeet, Olowakandi, Bradley, just a small list of the guys who make the 'you gotta get em if they're tall' thing really more of a guideline to me.

The grizz would just be so much better right now if they had been smarter there (and maybe not made the oj mayo love trade - would love/gasol work?)

depending on how you classify Steph Curry's game, Darren collison and Jrue Holiday could be the 2 best PGs from the 2009 draft.

That draft was littered with mistakes. Thabeet at 2, harden at 3, Flynn at 5, Hansbrough at 13. Sadly sixers/nba fans didn't learn from that draft.

Don't forget the rubio blunder :)

Is Hansborough really a mistake? He's been playing well in indy this year supposedly? (Plus he's a fan favorite in indiana - him and the other guy- mcroberts?)

All those blunders allowed (another) sixers steal of jrue holiday so i'm fine with it.

i'd be willing to bet that was the first time that 5 pgs were picked in a row.

And in other completely shocking news - the nets and nuggets are talking again and carmelo meeting with what's his name to see if he will say 'pay the man his money' just like teddy kgb.

Once again, Nets/Nugs have a framework, but Carmelo needs to be sold. Prokhorov-'Melo meeting could finally happen in L.A.

Wojo

He better bring his mini-giraffe. That's a deal closer.

Word is - he's bring a whole lot of opulence

I'm confused though - I was told by multiple folks that he wasn't going to sign with New Jersey cause Pokhorov said it was over, and it was over because he said so and never to be resurrected. Man - maybe Tupac really isn't dead?:)

Funny part about the whole thing, if he meets with Carmelo in LA, is that it's all public again, everyone knows what's going on, and every one will know when they meet (if they do)

SO Ja Adande said this on twitter

Seeing Shaq at Jerry West statue unveiling makes me think this could b 1st step toward getting statue/retired Laker jersey of his own 1 day

Am I the only one who thinks maybe a few other guys from Lakers history deserve statues before the carpet bagger?

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deepsixersuede on Feb 17 at 20:49
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I know most of us would like Gortat here, but his good play, with a good amount of minutes may allow a trade of R.Lopez for an offensive center [Spieghts] to play behind him. If Pheonix says no, would us giving our #1 and they giving us G.Lawal work?

Not saying I would or wouldn't but check out the ws/48 numbers on the lopez brothers through their 3rd year :)

According to that, for their careers, Robin is a worse rebounder than Brook - so that's pretty bad right?

http://bkref.com/tiny/jVNhZ

good assist rate imo.

I'm hoping you mean brooke and not robin.

Honestly - I'm just biased- the first thing i'm looking at with a big man is his defensive rebounding :)

Robin lopez isn't an upgrade over Hawes.

For the hell of it - I through Hawes into it as well

http://bkref.com/tiny/dSN8u

No one who seems to rebound defensively worse than Hawes please :)

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deepsixersuede reply to Jason on Feb 17 at 21:08
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I think Lopez, under Collin's tutaledge, could become a top 5 defensive center. And a Lopez/Hawes combo would be pretty solid for the next 3 years if Hawes could be gotten cheaply . [2.5 million per year for 3 years]

"could become a top 5 defensive center."


Based on what?

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deepsixersuede reply to Jason on Feb 17 at 21:16
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He is an athletic 7 footer who has a good motor. Saw him more in college than the pros but don't know how much the Pheonix system cares about defense; just ask Gortat who ripped his new teammates defensive effort when he got there.

Tim Duncan - who is not a center (just ask him) - will start at center for the West in Sundays all star game

Actually the most impressive thing about Lou this year is his high assist rate and career low turnover rate (to me)

He's actually shooting a bit worse than last year

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willilo02.html

More Simmons, the only other time he mentions the 76ers in his pre-trade deadline column:

>>
The 25 worst contracts in the league that have three-plus years or at least $25 million remaining (figures include this season and beyond):

25. Elton Brand: three years, $51.2M
24. Channing Frye: five years, $30M
23. Luke Walton: three years, $17M
22. Chris Duhon: four years, $14M
21. Antawn Jamison: two years, $28.4M
20. Amir Johnson: five years, $34M
19. Al Harrington: five years, $33.1M
18. Richard Jefferson: four years, $39M
17. Jose Calderon: three years, $28.3M
16. Charlie Villanueva: four years, $31.2M
15. Hedo Turkoglu: four years, $45M
14. Baron Davis: three years, $41.85M
13. Mike Conley: six years, $49.5M
12. Corey Maggette: three years, $30.7M
11. Richard Hamilton: two years, $25M
10. Emeka Okafor: four years, $52.2M
9. Andray Blatche: five years, $35.7M
8. DeSagana Diop: three years, $20.8M
7. Brendan Haywood: five years, $42.7M
6. Ron Artest: four years, $28.1M
5. Travis Outlaw: five years, $35M
4. Josh Childress: five years, $33.5M
3. Brandon Roy: four years, $62.6M
2. Rashard Lewis: four years, $80.4M
1. Gilbert Arenas: four years, $80.2m

I kind of like Amir Johnson's contract. it's pretty reasonable imo.

Is Chris Duhon really that bad that at 3.5 mil per year he's an awful contract?

Ha ha. Look at #3 :)

I didn't even notice - but yeah - it is a pretty bad contract

The fact that almost every 'independent' doctor talking to reporters saying that this was inevitable - I mean - ws the Blazers doctor that incompetent or did they just ignore the inherent risk because they're foolish?

The only problem with Jrue is that it seems we all forget that he's only 20 and hasn't yet been a full time starter for 100 games (and even when he was the full time starter last year he really wsn't the guy jordan wanted out there)

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Thaddeus%20Young

look at the 'at the rim' number.

Do folks think that's a sustainable number?

Overall Thad's 'total contribution' this year are pretty (overall) comparable to his rookie year - he just had two down years in between

I think the astronomical jump in ast% shows it might not be entirely luck. He's getting the ball in better spots.

I looked at the league overall - and for guys who get the ball there 'a lot' he's quite high. I just worry that it's not sustainable and that he'll get over paid for basically (like i said overall) doing what he did his rookie year.

Excellent Show - both of you - thanks for doing that - bored working on some of my extracurricular contract work - running queries

You were saying...

That 'hard hour' is kind of a pain isn't it?:)

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 17 at 22:06
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This hour only has 49 minutes.

I want my money back.

thanks for the questions, guys. Good stuff tonight. Sorry, it went about 2 minutes over.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 17 at 22:07
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You should go back and listen to your first shows as compared to now. Still not exactly sportcenter (or even TBJ) but much more polished. good work.

yes, not exactly sports center - you're informative and intelligent without pandering and using terrible puns

(Though ESPN 'this is sportscenter' commercials are still some of the best as a group around)

To be honest, that's funny because I stopped thinking of it like a radio show this year. At this point it's just talking hoops.

A large part of that is simply time. Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday night I'm watching game tape for the DraftExpress trending prospects that are put up thursday mornings, so almost all of my basketball time those three nights is focused on scouting, and I just don't have time to do the audio prep and some of the other prep before the show.

Do you think there could be any trade based around a Thabeet-Speights swap?

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 17 at 22:32
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I can't seem to make the numbers work unless we threw in Hawes (which would not happen) or Brackins (which should not happen.)

But I think a win now team (and young) like Memphis might see Speights as worth a shot. And you never know if a good coach could coax Thabeet into a decent bench center.

And you never know if a good coach could coax Thabeet into a decent bench center.

SI.com
"He's got no value, in my opinion," an NBA personnel scout said. "But it only takes one team to like him."

Someone yesterday in something I wrote spoke about how thabeet doesn't love basketball he was just tall and where he was people pushed him into basketball.

Don't help memphis clear up their mistake...


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