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Iguodala's Dominant Defense

Great job Brian!!! Hopefully, we can get someone from the national media to notice...

Good work Brian.

I've had this discussion with other fans, and even referenced your data. But the response is: I watch the games and know Iguodala is overrated. Its just a Philly fan bias to think he is much better than a good but not great defender...

People are invested in their biases, so proofs can only go so far. Iguodala best wing defender, Global Warming, Evolution. I think are all well established- but good luck convincing the skeptics.

Yeah, I'm much less concerned with the segment of Sixers fans who just won't see it, and more concerned with the people out there who just have no clue. The Sixers are never on national TV, and very few people in the national media ever talk about his defense (those who do, do it very rarely, only in passing, and usually as an afterthought to talking about how he doesn't score enough, isn't "the man" or makes too much money). I'm hoping we can change that, or maybe move the needle a little bit.

Story: Sixers looking forward to stretch run:




Shawn reply to Shawn on Feb 22 at 9:49

Also, where the hell did you get that Gerald Wallace picture. That is worth more than eleventy million words.

mgfields on Feb 22 at 9:46

Well, I tweeted also. Hope it catches on. The official @sixers already has a link up. Good start.

Charlie H on Feb 22 at 9:58

David Lee got more DPOY votes than Iguodala last year?? Really? He's not even average defensively. And the team sucked more than the Sixers did. More evidence that DPOY and All-Defense are consolation prizes awarded to good offensive players who don't make the All-NBA team.

I don't know how anybody can call Iguodala overrated, unless you think he stinks. He doesn't get good press at all. Every time I mention his name to somebody, I hear "he's not a number 1." I say, okay, but he can guard number 1s. You have anybody who can do that? Most fans only see the offensive aspects of the game, as Brian says. Most people who play the game casually don't even know what to do on the defensive side. They just put their arms up & make faces. So they don't know what to look for when they watch the NBA game.

Yup, here's the total voting. It's ridiculous.

They should really make these votes public, I'd love to know who voted for David Lee.

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 11:37

Yes the numbers are skewed. But Iguodala also was not as focussed on his defense. He has really re-dedicated himself to defense since this summer.

He wasn't as good last year, but he was still better than a lot of guys who finished above him in the voting. It's understandable, considering how horrible the team was overall. This year, there's no excuse.

Nice collection of data. It won't change anyone's minds, mind you (except those who haven't made up their mind), but it's nice to see regardless.

A lot of the defensive metrics I think are generally flawed, including PPP against. that being said, when they are virtually unanimous, it's hard to ignore, and it definitely passes the eye test. He's been shutting guys down left and right this year.

Wow, Rudy Gay .84 PPP.

Are there people that really argue AI's Defensive talent?

Yeah, it's more about raising awareness than changing people's minds.

A lot of the defensive metrics I think are generally flawed, including PPP against.

Just out of curiosity, how is PPP calculated? Is a "possession" only shot attempts and turnovers? In that case, it doesn't give credit to the great defender that prevents a shot attempt entirely (for example, forcing a pass back out to the perimeter), nor does it penalize a poor defender who allows a penetration and dish to someone else.

So is McGrady one of the best perimeter defenders in the league?

He's been really good at guarding the lesser wing on opposing teams this season. Prince takes the best, without fail. I didn't include him, but Meeks is about as productive as McGrady, in the same role.

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 12:34

Out of curiosity, could I see Steph Curry's numbers?

Didn't include him because he's a PG, but here you go:

PPPA: 0.89
PER against: 18.3
DFR on: 111.52
DFR off: 109.76
DFR dif: -1.76

Tom Moore on Feb 22 at 12:27

On chances the Sixers could get Denver C Nene: Source says Sixers "don't think we would give what it would take. They have never talked to us about him."

Lots of conflicting rumors out there regarding what the Nuggets are going to do next, some reporters are being played pretty badly by their 'sources'

Some indicate Nene in play, some indicate the Nuggets next big move is to give Nene and extension.

If the sixers want Nene they gotta call the nuggets, not the other way around. Man I hope they know how this works.

Everything was on hold until Carmelo was done, now that that is done the rest can move (or not) and if the sixers have an interest in Nene and don't at least pick up the phone (instead of waiting for Denver to call) they're worse off than I though

If Gallo's really being dangled, I hope the Sixers inquire. He's too good of a fit with Turner/Iguodala/Jrue to ignore.

Thad plus a pick for Gallo? Would you do that? I would.

What do you think the sixers could offer up that is fair for Gallo? Assuming that it's not Jrue, Evan, Iguodala, Brand?

Young and Speights are really the only 'good' young pieces the sixers have, and while they do have a small exception, I would think in the sixers case they'd have to take back all harrington (and give back their expirings) to make it work.

Anyone done the math on this - is denver still in tax land?

Pretty sure they're under now, based on what I read last night.

Is Thad and the Sixers first-round pick enough to get it done? You could also do Thad + Songaila + 1st round pick for Gallo and Chris Andersen. Gets them out of Andersen's contract.

I don't think the first deal would be enough, the second deal might be, it depends on what other teams are willing to do.

For instance, what if Cleveland (or Toronto) say sure - we'll absorb that harrington contract for gallo (and possibly felton - Cleveland needs a point guard) - is helping them get rid of andersen better than helping them get rid of harringtons disaster?

I think if someone shows up willing to take harrington - they get gallo - if gallo is on the market - again - lots of conflicting information out there.

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 12:46

I suggested last week:

Turner + Speights +expirings (?+1st)


Nene + Gallinari

I think that would make the Sixers sneaky good.

Not that I'm morally opposed to giving up Turner

but how would doug collins feel about the non defense playing italian?

Who comes off the bench, brand of gallinari or nene?

I honestly don't know what to make of Nene. His scoring is off-the-charts efficient, he doesn't dominate the ball, he's a great finisher. But is he going to help at all on the defensive end?

I mean, in the short term he'd make this team a ton better, and you'd probably wind up extending him. But long term, he doesn't fill the hole in the middle on the defensive end. I guess you could view him as your PF when Brand's contract expires, and hope you have the flexibility to add a defender in the middle at that point. I'd probably do this deal.

PG: Holiday
SG: Igudoala
SF: Gallo
PF: Brand
C: Nene

With Lou/Thad/Meeks coming off the bench.

Did anyone happen to notice that the majority of gallos scoring increase this year is because he goes to the line a lot more frequently? (His FG% and 3% and efg% are down). He has a .8 point per game increase in over all scoring but he's making (and taking) 2 more FT's per game than last year.

And he stinks defensively

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 13:07


So Galo draws the worst offensive player. Does he really kill you on defense?

I think that team is really well balance, both in terms of offense, defense, rebounding, running and shooting. Individual players have weaknesses- but they are well balanced by their teammates. Which is not at all the case with the current roster.

As I said, that team would be sneaky good. They would fly below the radar, but win 50+ games and be a real headache for anyone in the playoffs. They can match-up up against almost any type of team.

They just lack greatness (meaning superstars) but they are probably the best you could hope for over the next 2-3 years. And then you build around Holiday/Galo and maybe extend Iguodala.

Shawn reply to tk76 on Feb 22 at 13:15

Also, Galo is quite adequate defensively. I've watched him move his feet and does a good job staying in front of his man. He is not as much of a sieve as he looks.

tk76 reply to Shawn on Feb 22 at 13:16

And his length can both some wings who like to shoot over defenders.

Yeah, his defensive shortcomings wouldn't be nearly as noticeable here as they were in NY (and will be in Denver), nor would his rebounding or assist numbers.

Thoughtful piece on the Melo deal, though it's way too reliant on a Hollinger stat that in turn is way too reliant on PER.


Great job, Brian! I hope you've sent this to the ESPN guys? (Abbott, Hollinger, Sheridan) All it takes is for one of them to write about it.

Hopefully the regular Sixer writers (Fagan, Cooney) will catch wind of it too.

maybe put up an AI9 Victim banner or DPOY banner somewhere on the top of depressedfan.com?

I like the Victim Banner. Bravo for creativity!

I need to create the banner, but this is great idea. I'll get on it when I have a minute.

If you want a little photoshop help - drop me a line with ideas and I'll rough something up for ya :)

this was a very convincing post. A+!

Tom Moore on Feb 22 at 13:28

Video: Williams on how the Knicks getting Anthony could impact the Sixers:


tk76 reply to Tom Moore on Feb 22 at 13:51

I know a few fans who wish Lou would "force his way to NY."

Tom Moore on Feb 22 at 13:55

Video: Collins on Carmelo Anthony, the improvement of the Sixers:


Shawn reply to Tom Moore on Feb 22 at 14:09

I love Collins. He makes watching Sixers basketball and following his team enjoyable, and helps me relate to his team.

Awesome work Brian. It would be really cool if people started to notice.

Rich reply to Rich on Feb 22 at 14:23

Just looking at the retweets and stuff, Marshall Harris and Iguodala's manager noticed. Baby steps.

Outstanding job Brian. Thank You.

They linked this article on ESPN. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/25142/tuesday-bullets-215

Except they refer to him as "Andrea Iguodala"

Shawn reply to Eric on Feb 22 at 14:33

I think its Andre now. we good.

tk76 reply to Shawn on Feb 22 at 14:42

Maybe Brian should have picked a slower news day?

Yeah, figures, right? Spend all weekend working on something, then hours before you're ready to put it up, Melo finally gets dealt. Could've held it, but we've got games starting back up and I wanted all the numbers to be current when I posted.

Doesn't really matter all that much. Those who pay attention will notice regardless. Truehoop is a great place to get yourself heard, so i guess mission successful :). At least the dissemination part...

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 15:28

Monday AM would have been perfect. No one was talking much about the A.S. game...

Yeah, but people weren't at work, for the most part.

Video: Young on the Sixers heading into final 26 games, Anthony going to the Knicks and facing the Wizards Wednesday:


Stephen A Smith

Brilliant as always

Stephen A. Smith took it one step further. He prefaced his Walsh soliloquy by saying he "loved" the man and it "pains me to criticize him." Then Sir Loud not only threw Walsh under the bus, he held his head under the left rear tire. Smith said star players can't relate to Walsh. "Personality is what matters once the money is not an issue," Smith said Sunday night on ESPN-1050. He said when Walsh met with LeBron James last summer, the King couldn't "relate to a 70-year old man in a wheelchair, wearing a neck brace. "It's about relationships," Smith said. "Most young brothers don't have relationships with a 70-year-old executive. One's white. One's black. It's about personality. You need a big-time personality to relate (to these players)." New York Daily News

Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 15:48

So who is that big-time personality, Isaiah?

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 15:56

SAS for GM of the KNK. Then bring back Zeke as coach and player personnel guru.

Rich reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 16:01

Dumbest thing I've ever read. I know Pat Riley played and coached, but he's an old white guy, no? Amare signed with Donnie too.

Isaiah ran the Knicks into the ground.

How Stephen A. still finds work is crazy.

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 16:48

I can't believe SAS would bring up race...

3rd person in under a week to bring up race in regards to something related to the NBA.

So in general, SAS ripping someone else off and then making it worse, right on cue.

Sure Aldridge (black thanksgiving) and Bissinger (white americans) were also stupid but SAS takes it to a whole new level, I expected some sort of massuh comment in what he wrote

"Kobe has been riding Artest's (and Ariza's before him) coattails on the defensive end to All-Defensive Team honors for years. "

Had to stop reading right there
1 season with artest
1 season with ariza

And all of a sudden, Kobe is ridding on other peoples cottails?
This article is a joke.

You can make your point, without taking unjustified shots at Kobe


The disadvantage of being publicized at ESPN.

Kobe has been ridding coat tails for a while, he doesn't want anyone's coat tails around except his. So he must rid the lakers of coat tails.

There is a fan base worse than kobe's these days though

The stats posted in the article show both Artest and Odom are better defenders than Kobe and this guy is spazzing out.

Taylor do you think Kobe has earned his 2009 and 2010 first team defense award?

1+1 = 2, right? So the plural of year is years, and is correct. Although we're really talking about 4 years at this point, because Ariza was there for 2 years, and this is Artest's second.

Anyway, sorry I touched on your Kobe inferiority complex. No one ever gives that guy any credit.

Maybe you don't get national recognition because you consider Kevin Martin and Gerald Wallace stars. Really? Oh and because for some reason you add a v to the TO state line. But hey. Keep doing you man.

Didn't wallace just score an efficient 20 in a big win over the lakers?

This isn't really about who I consider a star. Melo wouldn't be on the list if that was what I was going for. It's more about national recognition. Martin scores a ton of points, Wallace has been an All Star, so they made the list.

When talking about players Iguodala has shut down, is a star relevant? We're solely talking about the level of offensive player he's playing against.

Heh, Kevin Martin's averaging 26 pts per game vs the lakers this season.

Laker fans are a hoot

To Those who think the sixers should (could) get Gallinari

Eric Pincus - Hoopsworld

Ha - I've covered most of the Gallinari thing above but from what I understand, if the Nuggets trade him - they'd prefer no one back (other than draft considerations). The Clippers, Raptors and Cavaliers have the means to do that via cap room and/or trade exceptions.

The Sixers have a $2.2 million TE. About $900k off. Damn.

I know they want 'nothing' back but I think if you take harrington off their hands for expiring deals - they should give him up

OK, so how about this? If you're going after Nene, and plan to extend him, then you're going nuclear w/ this core for a couple of years at least. Maybe you have to up the ante to make it happen:

Sixers send:

1st round pick

Denver sends:


You're left w/ this rotation:

PG: Jrue, Lou
SG: Iguodala, Lou, Meeks
SF: Gallo, Iguodala, Thad
PF: Brand, Thad, Harrington
C: Nene, Brand, Hawes

You can probably forget about significant cap space for a while, what's the ceiling of that team?

Depending on the celtics

2nd round loss to either the heat or bulls?

I don't know. Looking at the roster from afar, I don't think they'd be good enough defensively to go further than that, but when I look at the current roster, I don't think they're good enough defensively to be a top-ten defense, and that group should at least equal this one, right? Meeks for Gallo, is that such a big dropoff? And Nene isn't great, but he's better than Hawes.

On the offensive end, that squad is MUCH better the one we have right now, and you've got five legitimate scoring threats on the floor in the starting five. Maybe they'd be able to make more noise than a second round appearance or two in the next couple of years.

I think the next two years are miami chicago years - i don't think that roster could beat either of them in a 7 game series (all things being equal) and at some point brand starts losing his game and you've got more bad than good when he's on the floor

Well, this year they'd have to go through 2 of them. Next year, could be home court for the first round, then either CHI or MIA in the second round. Then maybe, but no way they go through two of them.

Yeah, I wasn't clear in my original response.

The sixers would be no higher than a 3 seed (depending on boston) and would lose in the second round to the 2 seed - be it miami or chicago

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 18:39

About as good of a team as you can get without any front-line stars- much less even than the Pistons teams.

They have the talent to make it a series with anyone. Sort of reminds me of the Pacers back when they had Miller/Ehlo/Smits/Jackson/Davis's. So you never know who they could beat- but I wouldn't bet on them either. But it would be interesting, and they would make a great Philly underdog.

Well isn't that the conundrum then?

There aren't really any moves the sixers can make to get to that elite level really are there? So is Comcast justified by doing nothing and hoping to get lucky or should comcast try to field the best team possible to win as many games possible?

If they're not trading Iguodala (or Brand or whomever) because they want to get to the playoffs, shouldn't they then spend to make the playoffs last as long as they can (within reason, I'm not talking about taking on tons of long term deals and such)

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 19:01

I agree with what you are saying. And given they are stuck for a while, I'm fine with going all in to try and win the most they can- assuming they hold onto young talent.

I still believe you need superstars to win it all, but its getting harder to obtain them. Drafts seem to be getting weaker (or at least more a crap-shoot) and the stars only want to play for a few teams. And I'm unsure how Philly ever becomes such a destination unless they produce a home grown superstar and play their contracts right.

Its getting closer to baseball, where only certain markets can even think of winning- although baseball is much worse.

No, baseball is not much worse, and people seem fine in coming to philadelphia in baseball (and football and hockey even)

Maybe the NBA is fundamentally broken...who knows, but no, baseball is much better off than basketball

if the highest payroll won the world series every year - then the yankees and red sox would be in the ALCS every year.

Instead the yankees are building mansions

tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 0:32

The Phillies are a big spender. They have gone from 24M to 160M in 10 years. Prior to that no one was coming to Phuilly unless you went back to Pete Rose... Try telling Pirate fans that baseball is more fair.

Personally, I definitely think baseball is more fair. There's absolutely nothing stopping the Pirates from spending big money to improve their team, beyond their own frugality. And prior excepting Lee, you really don't see very many free agents turning down the top bidder. These teams don't pay to keep their own talent, they don't spend in free agency to improve their teams, they gladly cash the revenue-sharing checks, then complain that they can't fill their stands. If you put a winning team on the field, fans will fill the stands and these teams will be exceedingly solvent.

In basketball, you simply can't overpay for elite players. Everyone can only offer the exact same amount (which in most cases is the amount their current team can pay them using bird rights), so the power shifts away from the owners of small market teams to the players themselves. Things like going to loaded rosters, or destination cities becomes the differentiating factor whereas with no max contracts, nine times out of ten it's the most money that lures the players.

There's as much parity in baseball as there are owners willing to spend. Basketball is a different animal altogether, where cheapness really takes a back seat in a lot of cases and even if owners were willing to overpay to get a player, they simply don't have that option.

Try telling Pirate fans that baseball is more fair.

Every league has cheap owners who could spend more. Pittsburgh is one of them, so is Kansas City

(PS, if Selig wasn't an ass wipe the pirates could have a great owner)

very well written. thanks for this!

The Raptors obtained james johnson (why?) and gave up a first round pick (heat 2011) to do it?

If Thad is still on the team after the deadline, does that mean it is highly likely that they re-sign him? Or do you think it might turn into another Andre Miller situation?

Well if Billy King were still here I'd say they're going to bid against themselves and over pay him.

I'm not sure thad is going to be comfortable playing for doug collins and rod thorn - they just don't understand stuff cause they're white (and old) you know... ;)

I think the sixers are taking their chances that the new CBA means they can get Thad back at a good rate. I mean he has value, just not 50 million dollar value. Or maybe they want to let him hit the open market - see what his value is out there and match that.

If there was serious interest for Thad around the league, i think he'd of been traded. Odds are he'll be resigned on a reasonable contract or Thad will be back on the qualifying offer.

He's having a 'breakout' year after a down year, and I still think restricted free agents to be have a depressed trade value around the league personally.

If Thad is back on his Qualifying offer next season do we lose his bird rights?

No, they'd still have his bird rights.

Brians right, what the sixers lose is the 'matching' rights of a restricted free agent. If he comes back on the qualifying offer, I believe he's then an unrestricted free agent.

Yeah, he's unrestriced, w/ bird rights (if they still exist), meaning the Sixers can't match, but they can offer more money and years than anyone else can. So they'd still hold a trump card in negotiations.

So they'd still hold a trump card in negotiations.

For Thaddeus Young :)

Great article, this is off topic but just looking at the available big men, I think we should get Chris Wilcox from Detroit. He's no all-star but is a very athletic bigman who has played well in limited minutes this year. He's always had a ton of talent bit is basically just an athletic fonder around the basket and can be a very good shotblocker. Could be had for nothing and his deal expires at the end of the year.

Old School Sixer Fan reply to Steve v on Feb 22 at 21:27

Wilcox looks too thin to play post defense. Does he have a defensive reputation?

Eh not a defensive reputation persay but he isnonebof the beat pick and roll finishers in re game. I don't think he's too thin he has a very muscular and powerful build. Ea also a pretty good rebounder as well. I think in a situation like ours he could really thrive.

Someones posting from their iphone ;)

What is Evan Turner and Jrue holiday's PPP?

Hey can you give me a list of the top defensive bigs in the league? Where do players like Javale Mcgee, DeAndre Jordan, Andris Beidrins, and Serge Ibaka rank?

He’s the Darrelle Revis of the NBA.

Didn't know that existed. That was just a quote I read today on another blog regarding Iguodala. I didn't know that scary video existed (I did not watch it - the title picture was enough)

Rod Thorn quote.

Must have missed it when Thorn originally said it. Ah well

When did Devin Harris become such an unloved player?

When the nets won only 29 in their past 130 games.

He was injured most of last season wasn't he?

Just curios, was always a big fan of his since he went to Wisconsin and it doesn't seem fair he's taking the blame for the crappy nets roster (started by rod thorn finished by billy king - ugh)

eddies' heady's on Feb 22 at 22:43

Why should individual player recognition matter when it's ultimately a team game? He'll get his recognition when he and others lead us to respectability in the win and playoff advancement columns.

But Brian, I think you have jinxed him already by this public push.:) Remember when you sponsored his b-r.com page last year and said, "National recognition doesn't matter, wins do, our superstar"? And he then only lead us to a 27 win season. So now national recognition matters this year? I'd say the same as you said on your sponsorship, that wins do.

And I guess you jinxed Evan Turner with the sponsorship of his b-r.com page this year.:) You said, "Finally, someone will replace Willie Green as our starting SG." That hasn't worked out so well either :) Maybe you should have forked over for Jodie's page instead.

So - the sixers should be above 500 by sunday night

Spencer Flaws on Feb 22 at 22:56

really impressive work as always Brian. I hope that the sixers keep doing well for the rest of the season and that hopefully andre iguodala will get recognized his stifling defense in the playoffs where everyone will see the games.

Be interesting come playoff time. Was watching the beginning of the warriors celtics, and Garnett fouled the warriors 2 times before the first one was called on the third one. In the playoffs the 'star' defenders tend to get away with more - guys like KG who are bitches in the regular season are down right hooker like - I worry that come playoff time, Iguodala is on the opposing teams best player, who gets the gift of all the calls, and then people comment about how he's just a foul machine.

Spencer Flaws reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 23:22

Well that's a reason i really hate the Nba. Most of the refs give additional help to guys that all ready score a lot.

Carl Landry to the Hornets for Marcus Thornton.Nice pickup for New Orleans.

Straight up trade?

Steve v reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 23:06

Landry for Thornton and David Anderson. Anderson is a throw in to make the contracts work. Seems like the kings could've gotten more.

I wonder if teams are going to be moving fast because of the Thursday deadline combined with the carmelo build up - the pipe has burst

Steve v reply to GoSixers on Feb 22 at 23:10

I'd think so. Devin Harris is next. Also read Magic are trying to get Randolph from Memphis for Bass and J-Rich. Z-Bo and Howard on the blocks would be devastating.

Spencer Flaws reply to Steve v on Feb 22 at 23:24

is zach randolph actually efficient or does he just score off of alot of shots?

Steve v reply to Spencer Flaws on Feb 22 at 23:32

Without looking up the stats I'm pretty sure from watching them alot that he's a very efficient low block scorer with a very reliable 15-18 ft jumper. I actually wanted the Sixers to trade for him instead of signing Brand.

Spencer Flaws reply to Steve v on Feb 22 at 23:41

well to me he is a very good rebounder. His fg% is under 50. But he gets about 5 foulshots per game. And he doesn't turn it over alot. I like him except he settles for jumpers alot.

Tray reply to Steve v on Feb 23 at 0:15

I feel like Landry is redundant with West, whereas Thornton is something the Hornets really needed.

I was watching this show, "Sixers City" on CSN. Really enjoyed the interview with Collins. He mentioned getting Turner with Herb Magee in the Summer to work on his shooting, which is very good news.

Well, the Lawson starting point guard era is off to a good start. Lawson had 21, 5, 7, and 6 steals. Took 15 shots. And, his opposing number, Conley, had just 10, 3 assists, and 4 turnovers.

In other lines, Griffin finished 2 assists shy of a triple double (28, 11 and 8), Wall finished two rebounds shy of a triple double (15, 8 and 10), Cousins was really bad (3-14 shooting), Patterson scored 20 on 11 shots, Bayless, in a bizarro line, had 11, 5 and 10 assists in just 21 minutes without making a single field goal, and Gerald Henderson continues to come to life under Paul Silas's coaching.

Collins talked about the last 82 games:

8-34 (19%) followed by 24-16 (60%.) I can't think of many dramatic turn-arounds like that when no major injuries or player changes were involved.

I remember the Bulls making a big tun-around a few years back. Can you think of anything else close?

OKC's turnaround must've been close to that, right?

Actually, no. Not that close. 15-26, then 24-17

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 23 at 1:52

I was thinking of the 2004/5 Bulls. They started 3-14 and went on to win 47 games (44-20 before losing their last game.)

The previous year they finished out 5-17 in their last 22 games.

Over 82 games that Bulls team had an analogous 82 game stretch of:

9-31(22%) and then surged to 29-13(69%). So even better than the Sixers.

tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 2:01

Some more parallels. The turnaround started in Skiles 1st year. Like Collins he started out abysmally (3-14) and then the team took off. Like Collins, Skiles carries the reputation of getting a ton initially out of a team and then risking team burn out.

Like the Sixers, that Bulls team lacked star power, and had no player with 17 ppg scoring. It also had Nocioni :)

The ages of the leading scorers mirrored the Sixers:
22, 24, 21, 25, 19(Deng), 25 and 22. Actually younger than the Sixers.

Of note that Bulls team disappointed the next year (41-41) before peaking with 49 wins the next year (after another slow 3-9 start.) They lost in the 2nd round. And Brooks was fired the next season after yet another terrible start (2-10.)

So some interesting parallels between that Bulls squad and this year's Sixers.


tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 2:03

Then they bottomed out, got luck in the Lottery and got D.Rose...

A major coach change

So Nicolas Batum is the worst wing-defender in the league? I mean, I agree Iggy is the best wing defender in the league, but I'd take Batum over Monta Ellis, Kevin Martin or Mike Dunleavy anytime. Stats prove something, but they don't ever tell you the truth.

The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.

I guess u can add luhal deng to that list now

Just bumped into this thread--great work-the stats tell it all.Ask those stars who is the best defender -without counting centers?It is pretty obvious-except in Philly.Iggy
needs another team-La,Dallas,Sa etc where his type of player is appreciated.

Here's the deal plus we swap no 1's(Sixers get #11, GS get #16).


It is a very interesting post, thanks :)

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