DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

The Knicks Get Melo

If you're up for a good laugh, check out this comp. Gallo to Melo is actually a downgrade, in terms of WS48, and a significant one. Felton to Billups is a huge upgrade.

Did Minny get randolph for just taking back Curry's contract?

It looks like it. Just saw Curry and Randolph to Minny.

Will be great if Den does better than NYK this post season.

By the way, Teddy KGB forced the Knicks into bidding against themselves, and the Nets may still wind up with Gallo.

And keep favors.

Plus they get a russian :)

I would love it if the sixers moved 2 firsts for Gallinari.

The Picks from the nets probably are better than the sixers picks - and the sixers don't give Denver any tax relief - which supposedly New Jersey will do (we'll see for sure)

I'm curios as to where Felton goes. Stein on ESPN saying Felton and Mozgov gone by thrusday but not Gallinari.

There just seems to be an 'extra' point guard in this whole thing - where is felton (or devin harris) going?

Are the Nuggets more than $10M over the luxury tax? Sending Curry to Minny has to get them under, no?

Wait - Aren't the Knicks sending curry to Minnesota? Who actually sends Curry where?

I'm not sure if it matters in the grand scheme of things, at the end of the day, the math needs to work out no matter who sends who where.

It matters to where the trade exception goes to?

Ya, that's a good point. they could use it for up to a full year, if they don't remove trade exceptions in the next year. So if the Knicks have it, and it still exists, they could use it to acquire a player making up to as much as Curry (wouldn't be enough to get CP3, Howard or Williams), and you can't combine it. But yeah, that distinction does matter.


The knicks have to do the minnesota deal or they take in way more than they send out (it's not mentioned - but this deal DOES NOT work without brewer (or equivalent) going to Denver. Minnesota can not fully absorb Randolph and Curry without giving up a salary)

This crap is complicated - but does NY get a trade exception out of this?

Damn - stupid refresh

So looking at Denver's side - and various reports

Mozgov/Galinari - they don't want them - trying to flip them to New Jersey

Felton - lawson is awesome isn't he? He going to get flipped? Where?

Chandler - restricted free agent this year I think.

So - in the end - they're just going to end up with some picks, 3 million dollars in cash - and not derrick favors.

Really looks like a lateral move to me. Knicks give up a ton to get Melo and Chauncey. They still aren't going to play any defense.

Does anyone think this trade would work? http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5tewghj

Probably keep us nearly capped out for the next few years but I think it's worth it, especially (or only) if Nene signs an extension with us.

Den wouldn't do it-not fair return value for Denver. They can get better than Thad for nene.

Nope - Taking on Al Harrington is an on starter to me.

Nene is now in play - the nuggets are blowing it up (and karl is gonna quit :) - but you gotta give him an extension - and he wants it now.

I'm curios to see what goes on with Chauncey. Will he demand waivers/buy out from New York.

I don't know Chaunceys game enough to know if he works in D'antoni - and Felton was excelling.

How long does it take this all to shake out and the knicks to get 'chemistry' going. The sixers need to come out strong to make a move to the six seed.

Man, I wouldn't touch that Al Harrington contract. The best thing the Nuggets could've accomplished w/ a Melo deal would've been to ship that out.

The Nuggets are going to be real interesting the next 3 days - they got a lot of moving parts they could get rid of now since they seem to be tanking.

Where do you think Felton ends up?

How great will it be if the Sixers jump the Knicks? I still feel like that's going to happen, too.

Ok - so here's an oddball question of a name we haven't mentioned

Chris Andersen is signed to an MLE contract - would you trade him for expiring contracts - do you think he is a solid addition to the sixers bench?

Oddball is an apt way to put it. I don't think Andersen is reliable at this point. The injuries and the insanity scare me too much to take on his deal.

johnrosz reply to Brian on Feb 21 at 22:48

I think he's kicked the drug problems, or has gotten better at passing drug tests.

Woj from yahoo is reporting this wasn't Walsh's decision.

Donnie Walsh ally says of steep price paid for Melo: "This is all Dolan. All Isiah. All (Worldwide) Wes and Leon Rose..."

It's good to see Isiah can still F the Knicks even from the grave.

Are you kidding me? Did you see the reports this weekend that Isiah is trying to be "GM by proxy"

Walsh has an option for next year that the Knicks have not yet picked up - I don't think they will.

tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 21 at 22:54

I love how a team's GM is criticizing his own team's trade. And I thought the Sixers were dysfunctional...

This is just more of the same. Stars/agents deciding where they go instead of basketball people. Its a bad trade for the Knicks... until CP3 forces his way onto the Knicks. And you know that i this environemt any star with

He's not publicly criticizing but reports have been out there for weeks that Walsh (and D'antoni) were not on board with such a broad based trade.

Dolan is a god awful owner - to think all the things Isiah did to the franchise (don't forget the sexual harassment and even if it was a slap on the wrist, which was utter crap, you know isiah was behind those improper works outs - he just had to be) and to still seek his council.

I don't think Knicks gave up too much. Odds are Gallinari wasn't going to be a long term solution if Melo was coming in 2011. Same thing goes for Randolph, Wilson Chandler. Mozgov was the only asset that i felt they could of benefited from keeping. Billups is a better short term solution than Felton and they will have increased hype from the fan base. the picks they gave up are borderline useless, they gave up the 26th pick in the 2014 draft big deal.

Really think the Knicks are getting too much hate here.

They over paid in terms of players - they over piad Carmelo in terms of his contract. It's a bad contract.

I think this whole Carmelo quest was insane and totally out of hand and both teams were going to be over paying for him.

true, Melo contract of 3/65 is just awful. How much does Melo get in 2012? Will NYK still havce cap $$$$ for DW or CP3 in 2012?

I still don't think it's "bad". If i'm a knicks fan i'm excited for this year as well as 2011 with Chauncey over felton.

I believe by signing the contract extension Melo picks up his option for next season.

It's impossible to know how much cap room they'll have in 2012 due to the whole new CBA thing.

Let's say Lebon Wade Bosh signed for an average of 15 mil a year right? 45 million

Amare and Carmelo are making 90% of that (or more) without even a 3rd 'almost' start like Bosh

And Amare and Carmelo don't play defense.

In fact that's how I think it's good to look at it

Amare/Stat making almost as much as Bosh/Bron/Wade

And by amare/stat I of course mean Anthony/Stat

Here's hoping my fantasy team gets a huge boost - if Carmelo messes with Amare stat wise - he will pay

What does this mean about Landry Fields? Sigh

if there is a hard cap in next CBA, there is no way knicks can get CP3 or Deron williams.

I don't believe there will be a hard cap, but I think there will be a BRI percentage reduction and an elimination of at least one exception. Probably the vet minimum, I also would say there should be an increase in the luxury tax payment (1.50 a dollar instead of 1 for 1)

I don't think the Knicks will be able to afford a real free agent going forward without a S&T (if those are still in the next CBA)

They really aren't going to have any assets w/ a big enough cap number to make up the difference in a sign-and-trade. See my post below.

Wasn't saying whether they would or not - that's a different issue :) Just saying only way to obtain one of those big names would be a S&T unless the MLE still exists and one of them is willing to take a massive pay cut.

You think the knicks are going to have the 5th best record in the NBA any time before the end of this decade? I don't.

Let's not forget about the western conference shall we.

Also - when a GM and a coach are opposed to a trade and the owner pushes it through - reportedly at the urging of Isiah Thomas.

in 2014 i expect them to be one of the top 5 teams int he NBA.

Lakers will have fallen, same with celtics, same with Mavs, spurs.

Miami, OKC possibly but no guarantee, and who else are better in 2014?

Well you're right, you can't project that far - for instance - you can't project that Amare's knees are going to stay healthy.

I'll bet you the bulls are still one of the best teams in the league - and that the mavs are still near the top - same with the lakers

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, probably all switch teams, the knicks won't be able to afford them and Marc Cuban will spend (so will the lakers) to pay those guys.

The Spurs are interesting - be a real test of the ability of buford and pop once to see how they progress.

I am glad this is over. Now we can see if other non-Melo dominoes fall.

I fully expected NY to get Melo. I am surpised the Knicks gave up assets when they could have just signed him this summer.

I'm betting Melo (and his agents who want their commissions fully - since they ain't got one for him yet) made it clear to the knicks that if they didn't get a deal done by the deadline he would go to the nets.

I think if the knicks backed off he would hve gone to new jersey to make sure he got his 65 million

johnrosz on Feb 21 at 23:03

Funny to think Thorn probably went to bed 4 hours ago, wont' have any knowledge of this trade until he gets up tomorrow.

Tom Moore on Feb 21 at 23:12

Video: Iguodala on the importance of the Sixers winning the first game after the break:


So what does NYK's roster look like?


Tony Douglas
Anthony Carter
Renaldo Balkman
Sheldon Williams
Kelena Azubike
Roger Mason

Would they be willing to take Nocioni? What does their cap look like next season?

It's a little complicated, but assuming they do trade Randolph and take no money back in that deal, also assuming Billups, Melo and Turiaf all do not opt out of their contracts, also assuming they pick up the option on Landry Fields' contract, they'd be at $60.6M next year, zero cap space. Though they might have a trade exception from the Curry deal for $11.2M.

The following year, assuming Melo's max extension, they'll have $45M tied up in Melo, Stoudemire, Balkman and Toney Douglas. They'll also have to re-sign Fields or let him walk, plus add another 7 players to their roster to get to the minimum of 12.

If the CBA doesn't change at all, they won't have max money. If the salary cap doesn't go up by at least 5 or 6 million between now and then, they won't have max money. If the salary cap drops, which is most likely will, Melo and Amare alone will be eating up between 75-90% of the total cap number.

I just like to think of it like this

45 mil in Bron/James/Bosh
42 mil in Amare/Carmelo


johnrosz on Feb 21 at 23:35

they ended up getting Brewer from Minnesota says Chris Broussard

Yeah - his salary had to be in the deal to make NY/Minnesota work (see my crazy link up above)

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Feb 21 at 23:39

So D'Antoni really only has one quality 3 point threat at the wing now in Fields? He's probably livid. He was a big Galo fan, and he said in the preseason that the Russian was the best athlete on the entire roster.

According to various reports out there - Walsh And D'ntoni hated this for a while and Dolan pushed this with Isiahs influence.

Spencer Flaws on Feb 21 at 23:52

maybe the knicks want hawes to "spread the floor" :P

I think NYK did well in the non-Carmelo areas.

They kept Fields, who is their most valuable entity to me. They got Carter, Shelden, and Balkman who can contribute to a team. (especially one that has 2 20+ PPG scorers)

Billups is the best player involved right now in my view as well. Interesting deal for this season to me.

Billups, Fields, Melo, Amare, Center is an interesting lineup to me.

Not to always express the minority viewpoint, but I'm reading through the comments and wondering...

How on earth can anyone see this is as a bad deal for the Knicks?

They give up Felton, but gain Billups who is better. They give up Gallinari, but gain Carmelo who is way better (I have no idea what WS48 is but if it says Gallo is better than Carmelo, I put little stock in it). They give up Mozgov who is a stiff. They give up Chandler who was leaving as a free agent anyways. They give up a first-round pick that is 3 years away and probably worthless since they are building a star-studded team.

In 2012, Billups and his $14M expires. My guess? It's a done deal that either D-Will or CP3 is the replacement.

Then you're talking about a big 3 that can compete with Miami.

Win-win-win-win for the Knicks.

It's not so much about the deal itself, it's the fact that the Knicks were bidding against themselves, and they've now tied up $40M+ in two one-dimensional players. And it's going to take a major miracle for the Knicks to be able to land another "star" even if the new CBA doesn't change the cap at all.

Sorry, that should say $40M+ per year.

Well imo we can never be 100% certain Carmelo would only have signed the extension with the Knicks. I'm betting that in his meeting with Dolan et. al., he and Wes/Rose did a strong job convincing the Knicks that Carmelo would in fact sign with the Nets if necessary just to get his money.

So the Knicks had to either choose not to believe him and take the risk, or "bid against themselves." If bidding against oneself only involves giving up mediocre players like Felton and Gallinari, a bum like Mozgov, and an essential expiring in Chandler (since he was obviously not going to be re-signed), I'd bid against myself in a heartbeat.

The Knicks gave up very little, in my opinion, and gained a star and a great point guard. And bonus, that point guard expires when D-Will and CP3 are free agents.

Yes, it may be difficult under the new CBA to get 3 max players. But I don't think so. I think Stern likes the idea of 3 stars on big city teams (look at the NBA ratings overall this year, the Heat ratings, the all-star-game ratings). Just a pure guess of course, but I think the Knicks will be able to sign one more star.

Yes they'll have the problem of filling out the rest of their roster, but so did Miami, and they still have a great shot at winning the championship this year and the next 5.

Marcus reply to stoned81 on Feb 22 at 0:36

At this point in there careers imo I would rather have felton over billups maybe if the Knicks was going to the finals I could see where u would say billups over felton but that's not the case sorry

Fair enough. I'd rather have Chauncey.

This trade was horrible for the Knicks. Felton was playing damn near at an all star level you have an aging billups Knicks gave up there best three point shooter as a sizer fan I wanna thank Isiah for making this happen the Knicks are cursed

I can't see that this makes New York much better. Even in free agency, I think I would've passed on Melo if I were them. They had enough wing scoring; it was point and center that needed work. Now it will be harder to pay for great players to fill that holes, and now they have no shooting. And the team's really, really shallow. This will work out no better than Melo and Iverson did.

The amount of chaos and conflicting reports in the Sports Writer Sphere is kind of funny this morning

I've seen reports saying Felton is the only player the nuggets are keeping and reports that they're going to flip felton for a first round pick. They love Mozgov and Dino or multiple teams want in and the Nuggets are offering him up. The nuggets want to extend Nene now and won't trade him or JR SMith (which is silly) or they're heavily shopping them and sifting through deals.

It's amazing today how many writers are getting played

Rea Yonashiro on Feb 22 at 13:26

I’m just so happy the Melo stuff is finally over with and we can get on with our lives for heaven’s sakes. Carmelo really did a poor job of handling this whole situation but the one thing is that he did allow his team to receive some assets in return, even if the motives were selfish. You can’t say that for Chris Bosh or Lebron James. The Nuggets now have some real pieces to work with while the Knicks pretty much having nothing to work with. We’ll see how the Knicks cope with their lack of players but I guess it’s comparable to the Heat in a way. Basketball just keeps getting more interestin­g, despite the increasing amount of stacked teams. Can’t wait for the playoffs!

How exactly did Carmelo handle this poorly. He made it clear he wanted to go to the Knicks and he'd only sign the extension with the Knicks. He met with the Nets owner even though he didn't want to.

What i'm curios about is how Carmelo could have handled this better? This is just how the NBA is these days, after last summer.

Next year people will be all over Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Dwight Howard if they don't sign extensions this off season. It's just how it goes right now, if you don't sign an extension the presumption is you're going to leave so the team has to trade you and get nothing. Carmelo expressed his preference.

The media are the jackals who published every unsubstantiated rumor out there and the public ate it all up.

Maybe Carmelo didn't handle it well, but tell me how he could have handled it better? I'm curios as to how Carmelo could have handled this shitstorm of the media's making better once he made it clear to Denver he wasn't signing their extension?

Yeah I don't see what Carmelo did wrong. It's a free country, he doesn't have to sign a 3-year extension with Denver just because some people desire it. He didn't demand a trade. The Nuggets asked him where he'd sign an extension, he said New York, and that was that.

People are quick to judge others, but how would you feel if the national media made a stink when you chose to leave your first job and go to your second job?

bebopdeluxe on Feb 22 at 13:29

The Knicks are #2 in the NBA in scoring (right behind - you guessed it - Denver).

Scoring the ball isn't the problem for those guys - it's stopping the OTHER team from scoring...and I'm not sure that the additional offense that Melo and Billups bring to the table will offset the defensive mindset that they also bring to the table.

Add to that the financial straightjacket that having Amare and Melo take up THAT much of the cap...and color me unimpressed.

Well, 8th in offensive rating. Three of the four big contenders are well ahead of them. Boston isn't; they have one of the league's best defenses. That's not going to happen in New York. So you could argue that New York needed to get better offensively.

And the Knicks DFR as compared to the teams you consider contenders?

Tray reply to Brian on Feb 22 at 17:15

Really, really bad. But I mean, they needed both. Now, I don't think flipping all their three-point shooting and perimeter scoring for Carmelo makes them better offensively. And I suppose it's possible that Gallo and Fields could have developed to the point where their offense was good enough to contend. But just looking at the pre-deal core, my instinct is that offensively they were a little short.

Spamming whore on Feb 22 at 18:58

This was a good move because they got Billups as well. They'll just have to strengthen the bench now.

Their starting center is currently Ronny Turiaf

They should upgrade that as well

Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment