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Deron Williams Traded to the Nets

Heh, atlantic division has some good PGs now. Jrue holiday will face Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups, and Rajon rondo 12 times next year.

I want someone to find Jerry Sloan and interview him :)

Things getting tougherr for the Sixers. More talent in the East.

Nets take "dis one" and make the right choice.

And the NY, NJ and MIA cap purging prior to this season has worked out nicely for them. Much better than a Brand/Iguodala 5 year plan. But at least the Sxiers continue to take baby steps (as long as you keep your head in the sand regarding the "big picture NBA landscape.

Still looking forward to tonights game.

The Nets aren't scary - yet.

They will be if they re-sign Williams and add Dwight Howard.

That's a moderately sized if and a BIG if...

But TK has a point. The Nets and Knicks are making moves poised towards getting better. The Celtics are still pretty good. The sixers are standing pat. They're losing ground (possibly) by doing nothing.

So here's the question. If the Sixers could've gotten Williams for Jrue, Turner and expiring contracts, should they have?

Yes, because Deron Williams is one of the best point guards in the league and he's closer to 'top of his career' with Iguodala than Turner and Jrue.

You upgrade your starting line up immediately while taking a moderate to small hit to your bench. You position yourself in a better spot to win now.

However, now you're paying the luxury tax :)

And you don't have the picks to offer that New Jersey offered.

I wouldn't, there's no way the sixers can improve and I don't know if Iguodala/Brand is good enough to get Deron williams to resign.

Trading for Deron Williams improves the sixers, immediately on the starting line up.

I believe the sixers have the assets to improve (even after trading for Deron Williams) they don't have the financial dedication.

You yourself said 'obtain zach randolph' and give him an extension - that's improvement (I guess) but requires more financial dedication than comcast has.

I hope Rod Thorn is fuming right now because the jazz are getting ripped off

taking in randolph for thad/speights/brackins/ecs is a lot less risk than trading for Deron Williams by giving up our #2 pick last year and our prized PG of the future Jrue holiday with the potential of blowing up and deron williams leaving with us completely destroying our future.

Deron williams improves the team, maybe gets them out of round 1, but does Deron Williams stay here? If he leaves then the trade would be a huge mistake and would cost the sixers another 5-7 years of shit.

Giving Zach Randolph an extension is a mistake - a mistake that even Memphis doesn't want to make.

Think about that for a minute. MEMPHIS doesn't want to give the guy an extension. They love over paying guys.

a 3 year 45 extension isn't bad for the sixers since they wouldn't have cap space in those 3 years.

I think it's a bad deal, justifying it by saying 'well they're screwed anyway' doesn't make it a better deal.

Is he that much better than Speights if speights was given the minutes zach gets?

It's a bad move that digs a deeper hole, that shouldn't be the plan.

I'll take the risk, but bringing also a center right now to complete a solid starting 5.

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tk76 reply to Brian on Feb 23 at 11:44
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Regarding Jrue/Turner for Williams...

From a purely basketball perspective it might not completely make sense. But from an organizational standpoint it is a no brainer. Sim,ply because adding a star of Deron's stature immediately makes you a player fro attracting other superstars in 1-2 years using Brand's expirng as a tool.

Right now the Sixers are irrelevant to the point that "overachieving with a young core" is not going to be enough for them to get top players to force there way here. Although you could argue that is exactly what happened when Brand chose Philly...

Although you could argue that is exactly what happened when Brand chose Philly...

Or you could argue similar money combined with his wifes desire to be closer to home when she's about to give birth to their kid was equally influential :)

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johnrosz reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 12:38
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Not to be a cynic, but I think there's no way in hell Williams would have signed an extension here. Williams/Iggy/Brand...does that even get out of the first round in the next two years? I don't know...

I also don't think he's a big enough draw on his own to the casual fans to the point where there would be a renewed interest in Sixers basketball around the city...

Not going to mortgage my future backcourt on the off chance that a star is going to look around at our baron wasteland of a franchise and say "I like it here, sign me up for 5 more years"

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tk76 reply to johnrosz on Feb 23 at 12:42
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I assume Williams would have to be onboard. But since posting the above, it has surfaced that he was not aware he was being traded. So that really changes the dynamic.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 23 at 13:23
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Maybe, because Deron is probably better than Jrue will be, and what's Turner's upside, really? I like aspects of his game, but he's frighteningly awful at putting the ball in the basket. Deron and Iguodala are at least the beginnings of a contender. On the other hand, I don't think he would stay.

also, does anyone want us to trade for Al Jefferson now? He's actually a legit (not top 5, but still good) center, and they're probably trying to clear salary now

I don't like him a lot, but he is an improve over Hawes, and may be Collins can make him defend. So I guess I'll take him if his avaliable for expirings and no much else.

The Sixers need a big man who defends or a star. Don't believe Jefferson is either, so I wouldn't.

Nene defends (better than Hawes) and has offensive game (better than Hawes) and yet the sixers instead say 'they didn't call us'

Comcast is showing its true colors

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 12:48
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If I were comcast, I'd be less inclined to spend now. Since a second rate move would not push up interest/gate/relevancy when your neighbors are bring in superstars.

Staying under the luxury tax
being just good enough to lose in the first round

These I believe are comcasts 'goals' for the sixers - in that order

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 13:06
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Its not their goal- given how often they change coaches. But they also are not going to throw money at the problem until something sticks, like Cuban does.

I think the method you described is the jerry jones daniel snyder method.

I think Cuban hires people he believes are smart and gives them the money to make the moves. I think Cuban is one of the better owners in sports...top 5 maybe...the red sox owners, robert kraft in New England also get up there.

wow

I don't think this means Utah is 'blowing it up' by the way. I think they realized they were going to lose Williams (in a year) and didn't want to go through a similar procedure as with Carmelo Anthony. I think that led them to panic and want to move Williams now so they didn't get backed into a corner like the Nuggets, but I think that they over reacted.

The Jefferson deal was a bad move for them and now they need to figure out what to do next but I don't think it means they're blowing it up in Utah

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 11:46
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Also, I think Utah realized that no other high profile stars were willing to join Deron in Utah (and he said as much publicly.) So they are forced to go back to square one and find new homegrown stars. Sort of like the Pirates, but not by choice.

You need to stop bringing up the pirates. They're cheap (and they draft badly - tampa drafts better) owners who won't pay to keep guys, PLUS they make some stupid moves when they do sign guys long term.

Like I said earlier, that comment over all star weekend may have been the last straw for Utah but I think they rushed into it - and if they were really going home grown star types - Jrue and Evan is a better building block since Harris is much farther along their career arc.

I think they were looking to move Williams, get something, but still get a 'proven' point guard...and they probably didn't want to 'trade in house' so portland was out of the realm of possibilities

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 13:25
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That makes no sense at all, though. What did Utah have to lose by waiting a year? Denver just got a pretty good return. I don't think we even know that Favors is going to be such a great player.

Would you rather have Deron Williams or Carmelo Anthony?

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 11:50
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Not even a question.

Well to me, it's not, to you it's not, but to others it might be.

The answer to that question determines if you believe Teddy KGB is a friggin genius or not. He gets the KNicks to bid against themselves and over pay for Carmelo and then the next day he under pays for one of the best point guards in the league.

Well i expected Prokhorov to be a good owner, because i knew he would play smart and dirty. He didn't get off to a great start, but he is finally starting to show what he's got.

Welcome to how Russia does business Dolan :).

In Russia - business does you

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 12:06
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He was either really smart, or stupid smart. He might have really wanted a star at any cost. Lost out on Lebron and Melo- only to be left with all of the cards when Deron surprisingly fell in his lap.

Come on Rod, go out make a call and trump both the Nets and the Knicks. Young, Speights, Turner, Lou a bag of picks and expirings for Howard and Arenas.

Never gonna happen. Why would Magic do that?

I believe he's being sarcastic

But if the Magic end up in the Carmelo situation with Dwight Howards - they might be forced into moving him - but I don't think he'd agree to an extension in Philadelphia.

However, the question as to why they weren't trumping the nets rather paltry offer for Deron Williams is a legitimate issue.

People say comcast is 'willing to spend' to get better. Getting Deron Williams would make the sixers better and I believe they have the talent to trump the Nets offer (even without the picks)

I agree, but Jrue+Turner is too much IMO for a possible rental. My guess is though Jrue + Speights + two 1st round picks + expirings is a better deal then the Nets one.

It's a risk, no doubt, but it's a risk worth taking (in my opinion) you have a year to convince Deron to stay in Philly. You have a great wing defender for him to play with and you have a big man (brand) who scores when given the ball.

Plus, who doesn't want to see the speights/williams P&R?

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 12:29
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Brand can't "Roll" on the P&R. Brand has to be set, or doing one of his oldman moves to score. He can't score on a roll like Boozer.

Who said anything about Brand?:)

Plus, who doesn't want to see the speights/williams P&R?

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 12:44
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Speights knows about rolls. He also knows about butter and ice cream and...

I was just trying to make a joke Tom :).

But hey maybe Howard told them i am not resigning so it's not impossible that he might get traded in the next few months.

Lockedonsports: D-Will told me it was not his choice. He is stunned. Declined to do interview until he figures out what it all means.


lol.

And this is utah in a nuthsell
Jazz fans already clamoring for Utah to take BYU's Jimmer Fredette in Draft to replace DWill

LOL!!!

So Philly post AI, Denver, Cleveland, Utah... all the same. Outsiders unless they get another superstar through the draft?

NY/NJ/MIA/LA/Dal the only markets that matter? And without Cuban Dal falls off that list.

Other franchises could matter

No income tax in texas can make houston relevant if Daryl Morey gets out of his own way.

The clippers - this off season will be instructive - have a very solid core and are supposedly actively looking for a scoring 3

Boston did it with trades (mostly)

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 12:15
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Agree. Although I'm not sure taxes approaches endorsements, lifestyle or the chance to play with other superstars. Lebron and Bosh took less money- and it was not because of the taxes.

The lack of income tax in Florida had to help (two states with Bush governors, no income tax, I'm just saying :)

Do the Kings become relevant if they move to Anaheim? You got owners with a history of being willing to spend, and Anaheim isn't really that far out of 'LA Proper' - it has a pretty nice lifestyle (year or two ago scatown royalty fans went ape crap on me when i suggested that the kings should and would move to anaheim if the clippers wouldn't - said it would never happen :) )

I think there are ways to become relevant - but you have to be willing to spend or maneuver and the sixers seem unwilling. The step backwards method or the luxury tax method both seem unpalatable. The ownership seems happy with mediocrity.

PS

Outside a few players, I doubt endorsements really make that much money.

I mean how much do you think Blake is getting to replace Jared at subway?

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johnrosz on Feb 23 at 12:41
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The Gordon Hayward era has begun

Quick rant...

This week has been yet another kick in the “gut” for Sixer fans. Not only did this franchise fall apart when the brain-trust moved to start the Magic in ’89 leaving behind Lynum/Schue… they lost their will to win when they went corporate (Comcast in ’96.)

They basically are a team that can be good for a few years if they win a lottery. Then that player will leave town (AI/Barkley) and we will quickly be reminded that the organization is rotten at the core. And yet I’ll continue to hope.

...OK, glad I got that out.

Aren't you one of the 'oh they'll spend / pay the luxury tax if it means winning' folks?

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 13:08
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They spent to add stupid, overpaid losers around Iverson. But that is only after they have a superstar and reliable gate.

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Old School Sixer Fan reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 13:08
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As the incurable optimist. What if Turner and Holliday both become who we hoped they'd be and Iguodala continues to be who he is? Doesn't that create an environment that might be attractive to Dwight Howard from a competitive view? He would be the missing piece.

If you believe in the potential of Turner and/or Holliday, you can't trade both of them to get one player that either of them might equal in 2 years.

Even as an optimist do you feel they can all get there by next off season and the sixers can some how swing a max contract offer for dwight Howard?

Howard is in play starting next season (assuming CBA settlement) just like Carmelo this season. They'd have to get there fast.

And fast won't happen with the way Collins is coaching

They don't need to get a max offer next season, they need to get a trade package together by next season, and I don't think they'll have the assets for that. They definitely wouldn't be able to put the assets together along with keeping enough of a core in place to entice Howard to sign an extension once they trade for him. Ugh, just when I start feeling a little bit good. I hate sports.

Good point, you should focus on the yankees and their mansions and their idiot new owners :)

I don't think Jrue or Turner has Deron Williams potential. Even if they get close in talent they won't reach his stature in terms of drawing other stars. Deon Willimas is one of the 6 or 7 highest profile guys in the league. Olympian, All-Star, sure fire HOF etc. A lot of it is talent- but some is perception/stature/pedigree. he was never a "Bust" like Turner or a "project" like Jrue.

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Tray reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 13:35
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Whoa, he's not top 6 or 7. Players with a bigger profile: Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Wade, Howard, Carmelo, Rose, Garnett, Griffin (yes, already), Paul, Amare... and then I'd put Deron up there with Dirk and Nash. So about top 15.

Ugh, when are you and Blake Griffin getting married?

I wasn't aware that Q rating mattered in who was the best basketball player.

Deron Williams is the best or 1A in point guards in the NBA.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 13:44
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He was talking about the players' PROFILES. Yeah, he's a great player and better than some of the players I mentioned. As for Griffin and me, like I've said here a lot of times, he's overrated, was only the third or fourth best dunker in the dunk contest, etc. But I do think he's a very popular player. I mean, everyone had forgotten about him after the year layoff and he's already doing endorsements for Subway. Hard to think of anyone else who came into his rookie year without hype and became a marketing commodity by the middle of the season purely on the strength of his play.

Brandon Jennings.

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tk76 reply to Tray on Feb 23 at 13:38
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I disagree. his team has struggled this year, but Deron Willimas has a huge profile in the sport. CP3/Deon is a running argument over the best PG in the game. And he is 26, so his stature in terms of drawing other stars is much higher than KG or Dirk.

I'm still confused as to why a guys profile impacts how good he is...ala Andre Iguodala

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 13:44
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I'm simply talking about "raising the relevancy" of the team to where they can market themselves as a destination for additional stars. Since that is the way things work in the NBA right now.

Iguodala and Jrue do not attract a Dwight Howard like Deron does. And in todays NBA Dwight will chose where he goes.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 13:41
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Players who as individuals have the most draw to attract another star to sign a long term deal:

Lebron
Howard
Wade
CP3
Deron
Rose

Rose might have passed Deron this year, but Deron is viewed as more of a team player that makes other bigs better.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 13:42
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Amare, Melo, Griffin are a rung below.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 13:49
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And I rank them becasue stars look to be tweamed with guys who will let them shine (and win.) Lebron is a superstar who shares. Dwight is a superstar who ancors your defense and does not dominate the ball. Deron and CP3 turn other players into stars. While Amare/Giffin/Melo like to score. So they are attractive if you a PG, but otherwise are a notch below.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 13:55
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But tray is right- there are higher profile guys than Deron. I guess it depends if you are talking the basketball guys or the hype machine. The hype machine certainly gives more attention to Deron.

Deron Williams got an awful lot of attention playing in Utah - playing close to New York (if not in New York) will help plus being the second best point guard inthe league helps as well.

If guys are going to build 'super teams' - they care about who can help them win - Deron helps you win

Jazz phones "blowing up" with calls about Millsap, Jefferson, source says. Teams trying to see if they can get either on the cheap. 11 minutes ago via web

Chris Mannix at SI

Hmmm maybe Nocioni + Hawes + Brackins for Jefferson? Or Nocioni + Songaila + Speights?

The secondary Nets deal is done.

Murphy to GSW for Gadzuric and Wright - now Williams is psyched.

Murphy probably bought out and most reports (surprisingly to me) indicate he'll end up in Orlando

I doubt the sixers even call him - they'll wait for him to call - like on NeNe

Wow, they gave up on Favors fast.

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johnrosz on Feb 23 at 13:01
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Prokhorov looks like a genius for now. What happens if Williams has no interest in signing the extension?

His arrogance might end up getting the best of him if he just assumes he can convince Williams to re up in NJ.

It's more likely he re-ups in Brooklyn (or Jersey) than Salt Lake City

He also has a year to convince him

And because Utah panicked, Pokhorov gets the benefit of doing the 'deadline trade' on Deron whenever the next season is and getting a team (ala New York and Carmelo) to over pay.

The Jazz panicked and Pokhorov took an intelligent calculated risk that either gets him a winner long term or he flips Williams in a year (and in a year he still has better value than Devin harris and Derrick Favors) to a team that he will sign an extension to.

I think people are looking for reasons to make this a bad deal for New Jersey cause the rest of the league was caught with their pants down

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 13:11
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Agree. Its always smart to get a young superstar in exchange for "untapped potential" and picks.

This deal is about 10,000% better than the Knicks Melo deal for so many reasons. The biggest one is that Williams is much better than Melo, but there are plenty more. First, he won't hit free agency under this CBA, so the Nets will probably have much more favorable terms to re-sign their superstar, while the Knicks will be paying Melo $20M+ for three years. Number two, getting their superstar in the fold prior to the CBA leaves open the possibility of a franchise tag. So even if Williams doesn't want to be in NJ/Brooklyn, they may be able to keep him there.

Chad Ford Chat

Elite PGs are almost impossible to get via trade or free agency. He'll have a bigger impact in NJ than Melo would have. I know that Donnie Walsh preferred Williams to Melo. The Nets got the better deal.

F me. You know, this is reminiscent of the deal Thorn made when he was in NJ to get Kidd.

SO maybe it's not thorn - maybe it's NEW JERSEY

THe jersey devil is REAL

I'm having a hard time understanding how Utah let themselves get owned by Proko and BK. Embarrassing.

Doesn't experience tell us that Billy King couldn't even own James Dolan?

So when do the Nets shed Devin Harris? And where does he go?

He's in the deal, going to Utah, right?

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 23 at 13:45
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Oh, didn't see that.

It's a shame they broke up the best backcourt in the league, huh? I know you'll always have a soft spot for the Harris/VC tandem.

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Tray reply to Brian on Feb 23 at 14:32
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Did I say something nice about them once? They did score a lot.

And can Utah bring back Sloan now?

Question: how many of the past 4 trade deadlines have the Sixers been "too good to make a move" because they were "going uptown" to the playoffs?

Zero

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Feb 23 at 14:23
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I mean from their perspective (ironically.)

for sure they are standing pat this year and the Andre Miller year because they did not want to break up their playoff runs.

Which big picture seems really shortsighted.

Which big picture seems really shortsighted.

Which dovetails nicely with having Collins as the coach :)

The playoff money makes Comcast happier than decreasing attendance and no playoff money but a better foundation going forward I believe

I think it's only fair to give Billy King at least the smallest bit of credit for this deal. I think he sucks just like any other Sixer fan, but he is the Nets GM. I imagine he had to have been involved in the process in some way. Lets not go overboard with the Sixers bias.

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tk76 reply to scott on Feb 23 at 13:50
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It was a move Thorn would have made. Like when he got Kidd.

HP just made a great point on Twitter: The reason nobody saw this coming is that Deron Williams is not represented by CAA.

Yeah that's right World Wide Wes, you have been one-upped by Teddy KGB!

Reports are Deron is unhappy about the deal.

I wonder how much of this has to do with him being a "West Coast" guy. Not everyone wants to live near NY...

I could see in his mind he'd much rather be shipped to the Clippers (owner not-withstanding.)

I believe his unhappiness has to do with the fact that Utah didn't tell him they were shopping him. It was sprung on him without warning.

I wonder if he's unhappy he's going to the Nets, or more unhappy that he found out about it on TV.

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Rich reply to tk76 on Feb 23 at 14:35
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Is this true about Deron, TK? I believe he's from Dallas, and obviously he played in small towns in college and the pros. Maybe he's more of a small market kind of guy.

wasn't there a report about how Deron wanted to play with the knicks in 2012?

Where?

There's reports that Dwight is going to LA in 2012 - which Dwight denies vehemently.

Lots of reports out there that are based in ether and vapor

The always reliable unnamed sources

Don't buy

especially since the knicks can't afford him

Remember when the nets were 'out of it' for Carmelo and everyone was like 'look it's in the paper so we have to believe it', I said it was BS and it turns out, look, it was BS. These guys are so desperate to get their web hits up to keep their freaking jobs (look up something called the AOL Way, online journalists are getting killed by, ironically, blogs) that they report almost anything they can to try and be 'exclusive'.

That doesnt' count guys like Vescey and Smith who for years have just made crap up.

Do the Timberwolves still have any cap space left after their trade?

I was wondering whether the Sixers could give Meeks + either Speights or TYoung for Wes Johnson. I don't see any of these guys mentioned as high quality starters, but WJ would fit better with the current Sixer team in the Meeks role, upgrading defense and rebounding.

Why would the wolves give up on Johnson so quickly?

My read is that they feel he isn't ever going to be a great starter at the wing because he can't create his own shot, so I believe he is available if the TWolves feel they feel they get decent value back. As I said before, I think he is a better fit on the Sixer team because we've got more other players that move well with the ball and more need for a good shooting 2 who plays good D. I don't actually know which Sixer utility players have appeal to the TWolves. They really need a PG unless Rubio comes, and of course we aren't giving Jrue.

Your read is that they're ready to give up on him after 2/3 of a season?

Sounds a lot like labeling Turner a bust aftr 20 games, it's just jumping to conclusions. It would be foolish of them to give up on Johnson now unless you get a 'real' player back (like favors in the williams deal) as opposed to the flotsam of bench players (at best) you think the sixers should offer

If it's Speights i'd do it, but the Wolves won't. if it's Young i wouldn't do it.

Comment on HoopsHype forums

Al Iannazzone: King said he talked to Deron Williams and he's "excited" about coming to the Nets. Twitter

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