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Lou Williams Is Out Indefinitely

Well, I guess we'll see how the J/T/I/M 4 man rotation goes. I really hope they tell Turner to noty and scorer (and not just shoot jumpers.)

Noty?

I think that a BJMIT would work with the celtics going small. But when you have thad why would you want Turner in there over thad? I am intrigued to see a TMI lineup, I wonder if we'll see thad play more 3 and Iggy play back up point when Jrue is on the court.

Silver lining of this injury is the final week will be interesting.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Apr 4 at 0:39
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should read: to be a scorer

Sometimes my typos astound me.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 4 at 0:16
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Please don't let this injury linger. Without Lou we have NO chance in the playoffs. He's our secret weapon when Meeks isn't throwing up 10-15 pts a game. These hammies can be a tricky thing. Just bad timing, hope they can get this treated and healed in the next two weeks.

As soon as things started looking up for Sixers fans, we're brought back down to earth, hopefully not with a thud. He's just got to get well soon..has to...

Oh lord, whatever will we do without Lou's 28% shooting the final 5 minutes of games?

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eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on Apr 4 at 10:49
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If you weren't a parody poster, I might would take you seriously. But...

OH NO Lou is out! How are the Sixers ever going to be able to get enough shots up to win these games? We're bound to get outshot by at least 10 a night. The possessions that Lou used will just be lost now! No way ball movement will end in a good shot for someone else. The end is near. :(

Daniels signing is a joke. He's not an NBA player, never was.

I'd rather just give Lou's minutes to Turner, but if they really think that little of Turner, a guy like Larry Hughes would've been a better option. He at least had NBA level talent and performance at one point in his career.

I agree the signing is underwhelming but all we needed was a guy who could come in and handle the ball well. Hughes has won just as little as the guys in our locker room, at least Daniels has some playoff experience and maybe can give Jrue some pointers.

i basically just cemented that he will end up being a turnover machine and somehow seriously impede jrue's development.

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Court_visioN reply to T McL on Apr 4 at 1:18
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plus, what has Hughes been doing for the past season? the Sixers know what Antonio Daniels has been up to in the D-league.

Jesus, has he really been playing in the D-League? The guy is 36.

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Apr 4 at 1:28
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"Instead of going overseas, playing in China, it's just easier for me to get back to where I'm going -- where I need to be -- by coming to the D-League," Daniels said, noting that his best asset is his leadership. "I've taken being a leader upon myself from day one -- to be the leader, the vocal voice, to do all I can to influence. Basically I'm just trying to lead by example."

from Ridiculous Upside, here's the link:
http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2011/4/4/2089512/antonio-daniels-76ers-lou-williams-nba-d-league-philadelphia-sixers

avged 14.5 points, 8.6 assists, 4.8 rebounds, 43% 3FG for a playoff bound (NBDL) team.

Here's hoping Evan Turner can take advantage of Lou's absence and play well. I think he'll get time in the first half, and if he's just stinking up the gym or getting lost out there, then Collins will resort to putting in Daniels just to keep turnovers down with his "veteran leadership"

Hughes won a playoff series with Washington (something Daniels never did). There's no comparison between the two players when it comes to talent. And Hughes is at least skilled defensively, whereas Daniels is a revolving door.

Regardless, the minutes should've gone to Turner. Now we get to watch a D-leaguer. Wonderful.

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Rob_STC reply to stoned81 on Apr 4 at 10:07
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Actually Daniels was always a solid point guard in the NBA, in fact it was not mentioned but he was on the 1998-1999 Championship Spurs team.

Right, and I think the reason Collins liked the idea of signing Daniels is that his career assist-to-turnover ratio is over 3, and in his prime, he'd routinely put up ratios over 4. As backup PGs go, he's a lot better than someone like Kevin Ollie.

What is Larry Hughes doing these days? I see he's only 32. It's hard to believe he can't find a job in the NBA, if he's healthy.

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johnrosz on Apr 4 at 0:58
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I know a lot of people can't stand Lou, but it's foolish to think his production isn't needed on this team(as currently constructed). In the future, that's a different story...

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Rich reply to johnrosz on Apr 4 at 1:26
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Agree with this. Any of hopes of the team winning a first round playoff series hinge on Lou being healthy. That may not make a difference, but it's tough to win with a seven-man rotation that includes Hawes.

Yeah, a lot of people (myself included) don't like Lou's game, but the fact of the matter is that he's an effective player who plays 23 minutes/game and really carries the offensive for a decent portion of those 23 minutes. When he's hot, he can completely carry the team and he can do it no matter who's guarding him. That's a valuable asset, and on this team specifically, there's no one who can step into the role.

If he isn't back for the playoffs, Collins is probably going to have to play Jrue, Iguodala and Meeks over 40 minutes each in every close game. Maybe 45 minutes.

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Rich reply to Brian on Apr 4 at 2:39
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The big point here is that we are playing Boston or Miami in the first round, and neither of those teams have PG depth. Mike Bibby guarding Lou is rather laughable.

With the likelihood of us playing Boston (that's if we hold off the Knicks), a huge advantage could be having Rondo try and play 43 minutes a game and having to defend Lou for 14 of them. Rondo is very overrated as a one-on-one defender and a quick guy like Lou could have some success/make him work hard on that end.

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deepsixersuede on Apr 4 at 7:19
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With all the good karma surrounding this team this year I am gonna look at this positively for the moment; it is, as Brian said, put up and shut up time for Evan in a role that may be his in the near future.

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mchezo on Apr 4 at 8:16
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Lou is definitely a valuable piece to the sixers puzzle but I think other players can and will step up to temporarily fill the void. However, the fact that they pulled the trigger on Antonio Daniels so quickly doesn't bode well for Evan Turner's minutes. Has turner been that bad? Honestly, I think he has played within himself, shown flashes of being a very nice offensive weapon and has been a better all around player than noce. The thing that sticks out about him is that he can get wherever he wants to on the floor and create his own shot. What is the nature of doug's issue with him anyway? that "going with the veterans" line is bs. Also, The lack of a timetable for lou's return is strange. Usually when a player gets injured, we at least get a sense of when he is likely to return.

At times i am amazed by you guys. Finally, after a very long time the Sixers signed a guy from the D-league after countless requests from the fan base here at Depressed Fan and now all of you view that as a bad thing. The Sixers needed a situational backup PG, all season long and finally they acquired one. Daniels is pretty much as good a player as you are going to find in the D-league. He's got some experience and is decent for spot up minutes at the point. Besides, there is no guarantee he is even going to play. He is probably signed to be the 11 guy in the team, he poses no real danger to Turner. Turner will get his share of 20-25 minutes per game in the next few games. What he will do with them is up to him.

That being said, i am worried that he will not be given the ball to create when he is on the court. I seriously doubt we will see him on the court without Iguodala or Jrue. I think the only reason he has struggled this season is because he is badly mis-utilized. Hopefully that will not be the case next year. But with the current roster, i am worried about his future on the team.

I'm often amazed by your ability to over react and mis-read the situation.

Most people dislike the signing of Daniels because they feel there are better options.

If you think a being forced into a D-league signing is the same as intelligent use of the extra roster space they have, that's fine and dandy. This signing is underwhelming and pointless and one of necessity, not intelligence

I've never really been one of the D-League advocates, but I think their point was that maybe you could get a young big from down there with some upside and see if he can give you some minutes, maybe turn into something down the road. Getting a 36-year-old isn't really taking a flyer on a guy with some upside.

Personally, I don't really care all that much about this move. All it really says to me is that Collins wants another option at the point just in case Turner can't do it, someone else gets hurt or he really wants the option of trimming down guys' minutes as we lead into the playoffs.

Even against the Nets the other night, Collins had trouble putting a five-man unit on the floor w/out using any of the top seven in the rotation. Kapono is dead weight so best-case scenario, Daniels warms Kapono's seat and eats up some garbage time minutes.

As for the Lou situation, as much as we hate his style of play, he is a key part of this team's identity and his absence will be felt. Hopefully that won't cost the team wins or more importantly, hopefully he will be back at full strength before the playoffs and the Sixers will keep the 6th seed while in his absence.

i've seen it mentioned before that collins traditionally hasn't played rookies much, but i just realized he was kwame brown's coach when he entered the league. so a #1/2 draft pick turning bust isn't new territory. not blaming him, and not saying turner is a bust, but it's something to think about.

Comparing Kwame and Turner is impossible. They are completely issues are completely different.

It's only something to think about if you think Doug COllins is responsible for Kwame Brown being a bust. If you don't, then it's just a piece of information that has no bearing whatsoever.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 12:11
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A lot of people blame him and Jordan. Of course, he left Washington a long time ago and didn't do much elsewhere either. Seems to be playing solidly for Charlotte, but I just never saw all that offensive skill he supposedly had.

I read that Daniels cannot be on the playoff roster. So is role will be to make sure Jrue gets some rest over the final 6 games.

I sure hope Turner takes advantage of this opportunity to step up into Lou's role. But honestly, my confidence in what he can do this year is rock bottom. I'm still hoping he figures it out next year- but I really am left with minimal expectations for Turner this season- with or without Lou.

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mchezo reply to tk76 on Apr 4 at 11:06
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Actually, Antonio Daniels will be eligible for the playoffs because he has not been on an NBA roster this year.

I believe you're correct. I remember reading that it wasn't how long you were on the roster so much as long as you were waived by March 1st (around March 1st when the players were being waived and such)

Yea I'm not comparing turner & brown. I'm saying collins has been in a similar situationYea i+ no

Why couldn't we have signed a guy like Steven Hunter or Sean Williams earlier in the season?

Antonio Daniels stats:

ppg: 14.5
rpg: 4.8
apg: 8.6

D-league stats aren't exactly a useful indicator of anything much when it comes to the NBA.

I'm pretty sure Sean Williams is done in the NBA due to his 'personality' issues that people just assume he still has (Yo, CDR, pay attention)

My personal issue with the D-league is how they have messed around with Brackins. Why do they keep bringing him back up if he ain't gonna play?

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 11:29
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Becasue none of their coaches are with the D-League team. So they would rather him working with Sixers coaches and teammates most of the time.

When a college freshman red-shirts they don't send him to play at a junior college- but maybe they would if they could?

You're right

The college junior college thing is exactly the same situation, can't believe I didn't think of it that way before.

That's a nice rationalization of course. The sixers, having no back up big men the coach trusts still don't put Brackins in in garbage time (like against the Nets) if he's even active for a game.

He must be showing a lot in practice.

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tk76 reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 11:38
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Thorn and Collins have both used the term "red-shirt year" for Branckins. And if they can't find minutes for Speights then when are they going to get regular burn for Brackins?

Not saying its right- since I have no idea what Brackins can do on an NBA level. But I don't have a problem that they mostly want him to work with the team. The 3 times they sent him to the D league were when the team had a cluster of games where he would not get practices with the team.

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Tray reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 12:13
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"Sean Williams is done in the NBA due to his 'personality' issues that people just assume he still has (Yo, CDR, pay attention)"

I think people scout these players and would notice if he'd suddenly become a great guy. The last I read, there were still major issues displaying themselves on the court, even on the D-League level.

Can someone explain to me what draft considerations are? If you trade a player for draft consideration what does that mean?

It depends on the sport and the context. The way I see it in the NBA it's the pick / protections on the pick involved in the draft. In the MLB it's a bit more nebulous sometimes.

Was there any specific trade that caused you to ask?

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Shawn reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 11:11
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They usually say when it is a protected pick. Im going to assume that trade consideration depends on how well a player plays for the team. Sort of like a conditional pick in football.

This is what I was referring to:

http://www.nba.com/jazz/news/Jazz_Obtain_Draft_Rights_To_Fesenko.html

Ah, that pick. I think it just means a future second round pick that they didn't make the conditions public on.

I don't think they have the kind of 'defined conditions' that they do in the NFL. In fact I'm not sure they can?

Can anybody provide me with info on Daniels' defense? Was he considered a good defender? I recall him in his prime as a pretty athletic guard with a great first step and a semi-decent outside shot, but I can't remember his ability on the defensive end.

Personally, and I know I am in the minority here, I am pretty high on LW, despite all of his flaws, and I think we will miss him more than we might think now, especially in the playoffs

People appreciate Lou Willams, but there are times when he kills the offense. He'll take too many transitional shots, takes too many jumpers and doesn't run the offense. He is an effective player when he draws fouls, makes his jump shots and drives into the lane. As a starter he is awful but he does provide a spark off the bench and can carry the Sixers at times when the offense is stagnate.

People have to stop blaming Collins for Turner's shortcomings. Turner is averaging 22 mins/game. He has to learn how to be an effective player off the ball. We already have Iguodala and Jrue as our ball handlers. If he wants to be an effective player on this team he needs to be a better jump shooter so that he can space the floor and he needs to be a post-up player so that he can take advantage of smaller guards. I want Evan to play more like Paul Peirce

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Court_visioN reply to Ricky - Sixers4guidos on Apr 4 at 12:19
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he tore his meniscus and is 36 years old. He wasn't a horrible defender back in the day but with the injury limits what he can do defensively now. he's probably below average at this point.

Ricky, Daniels was a pretty good defender as he was kind of groomed on San Antonio. I agree though if Lou is gone long term it can only hurt the team.

I read in John Smallwood's chat today that he would trade Iguodala for Beasley, presumably putting Thad at the 3 and Beasley at the 4. My initial reaction: how is it possible that he's been watching the Sixers all year and has no idea why the Sixers have succeeded?

Yeah, I think the problem is that he hasn't watched the Sixers all year.

I think Smallwood writes bad baseball articles too

two second round picks(Beasley) = AI
sigh...

I wonder

A. How many fans agreed with him.
B. How many Timberwolves fans think it's too much to pay for Iguodala

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tk76 reply to Bo on Apr 4 at 14:59
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But Beasley was a #2 overall pick- and those guys just need a real chance ;)

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Tom Moore on Apr 4 at 13:16
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Video: Williams on strained hamstring that will keep him out for final five games of regular season. He hopes to be back for playoffs:

http://ow.ly/4sOA5

Lou: "Today was Evan's practice."

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Tom Moore on Apr 4 at 13:54
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Video: Collins on Williams' injury, Daniels and Turner getting a chance to return to rotation:

http://ow.ly/4sQEP

Not sure Meeks is ready to run a pick and roll as Collins suggested in the video. I'm all for getting him more shots, but more catch and shoot stuff. His ball-handling isn't there yet.

It's not like the sixers run the P&R alot (shh, ignore that Toronto game where Mareese Speights just bitch slapped them on the P&R)

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 14:39
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Jrue and Brand run their fair share of pick and pop. Hawes runs pseudo pick and pops where he hands the ball off to a guard, and flares to the corner.

Well yes, I'm aware of that, but you didn't say pick and pop - you said the pick and roll which the sixers don't run much (and maybe that's why they can't defend it for shiz)

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 15:01
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That's a personnel thing though. I don't think they have the personnel to run the pick and roll. Their Top 4 big men are all primarily jump shooters, who would all rather flare out than cut hard to the basket.

Go back and watch the Raptors game in which Speights ran the P&R to perfection and bitch slapped them.

Speights can run the pick and roll, hawes probably could too...and i'm tried of watching him think 3's are a good idea at all

Speights can, but he prefers the pop (less work?). Hawes can't. He's one of the worst finishing big men I've ever seen. Questionable hands, no explosion, no strength and really no desire play to contact.

I wonder how much of his preference is just the coaching. Since no one else on the sixers would be any good at it they just don't run it (besides he don't play much). I wonder how it would work for Thad, meh...too late to find out.

After reading that speights pre game ritual though, I've pretty much given up hope he'll get it

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Rich reply to Brian on Apr 4 at 16:21
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Speights doesn't exactly love contact either. With him, it's always a mindset thing.

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 16:18
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I actually did and watched all of Speights' points in that game. I didn't keep track because I was in a hurry, but I think he got two (at most three, but I think it was 2) baskets off pick and roll. Most of Speights' points in that game were on running the floor and just outworking the Raptors' bigs.

I'll check it again tonight though.

Do you have mysynergy access? I can't get it :(

Did you read the blog article about him pregame? That was depressing

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Rich reply to GoSixers on Apr 4 at 16:26
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No, I have League Pass on Demand. I just look back at the play-by-play and fast forward through the archived games. Not perfect, but it works.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Apr 4 at 19:12
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They ran one that I know of either vs MIL or Fri night vs NJ. I mentioned it in the game thread and got a snicker out of it. Think it was Meeks / EB and Jodie threw an unusual pass, for him, to EB who connected I believe.

The Meeks P&R, yeah I do remember it. It was a score. Can't remember which game it was.

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Tom Moore on Apr 4 at 14:31
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Blog: Williams is unsure of timetable for return

http://ow.ly/4sSem

The funny thing about replacing Lou is that the bring in Daniels as some sort of a steady hand at the guard position, when Lou is anything but steady. Don't get me wrong, Lou can be awesome and is very important, but he is volatile as hell.

What does the bench do with all of the shots Lou gives up now? Are they going to run completely through Thad? That might be trouble, because Thad has sort of thrived as a second option, when Lou finally gives up the ball, he goes. In that way, they really are perfect for each other, because Thad doesn't need a great passing point guard and Lou helps take attention off him. I'm pretty freaking worried about this injury.

The shots will probably get spread out pretty evenly. I don't see anyone's usage percentage rocketing up to 25% in Lou's absence. Probably more for Jrue, because he'll be more involved than he was in the minutes he shared with Lou.

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Rich reply to Brian on Apr 4 at 15:09
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Lou takes about one shot for every two minutes he plays. That's a big void. Also, if you think that the shots are going to spread evenly, that means Antonio Daniels will be shooting the ball quite a bit too. That's an unknown that we are relying on in the playoffs.

On the positive, Daniels is a 42 percent three-ball shooter in the D-League, and that has to be somewhat transferable to the NBA if he's a spot-up shooter. The problem is that at some point Iguodala is going to have to rest in the playoffs. I wonder if they could get away with a Jrue-Daniels-Jodie-Thad-Brand lineup for a few minutes. That seems like a bit much.

I guess the point is that we should hope Turner gets his shit together.

It's a bit closer to 2.5 minutes than 2, but how many shot should lou be NOT taking cause someone else is wide open? Distributing lou's shots isn't a problem

It could be, especially if Turner's handling the ball without Jrue or Iguodala on the floor. That second unit doesn't have a lot of guys who are going to create their own shots, there are obviously times when Lou freezes everyone else out, but there are just as many times when no on is getting open at all and Lou has to make something happen. He's got that skill, and it's going to be missed in the times when JH or AI aren't on the floor. Unless Turner suddenly "gets it" and starts using his dribble to do something instead of just making pretty behind-the-back dribbles 25 feet from the hoop which don't accomplish a whole lot.

I don't expect to see a lot of Turner on the floor without Jrue and Andre (or the new old dude) honestly.

I think what we don't really want to see at all is Turner/Jodie/Nocioni together.

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Tom Moore reply to Brian on Apr 4 at 16:18
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Don't think you will. Not a good mix.

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Rich reply to Brian on Apr 4 at 16:13
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That's the point. The dynamic with Lou on the floor is totally different because he is such a threat to score. He can get his shot off cleanly (and easily) against anybody, and the way the defense leaves other guys open when he freezes others out won't be available with other people.

Even when he's off the ball, that's a big loss too. I think he's great as a spot-up guy running off screens or catching a spot-up three, pump faking, and taking an in-rhythm mid range jumper.

If Turner is in the game running point, I want him playing simple basketball. Pick and pop with Brand would be preferable.

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Tom Moore on Apr 4 at 16:19
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Collins: Turner will get minutes in Williams' absence:

http://ow.ly/4sYdF

Alright so back to the weekly, "Who do you want" poll, it has to be Boston, right? I've been afraid of Miami for awhile and our game against them exposed some major problems they present, so I think Boston is the choice. Has the win over Chicago affected people's thoughts?

I know they've played Boston tight, but Bostons one glaring weakness right now (big man) isn't one the sixers really can take advantage of (no I'm not buying into spencer hawes before anyone asks) because the sixers don't really have a big man to take advantage of that.

Honestly, the way the playoffs go, I'd rather have the Bulls as they're the least likely to benefit from the referee tilting we see go on

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eddies' heady's reply to Rich on Apr 4 at 19:01
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Boston all the way. I'm going to be so disappointed if this Lou injury costs up from wrapping up the sixth spot. I just think their dropoff when their bench comes in is substantial, something we can definitely exploit. Andre locking down Pierce and minimizing him, Meeks having the capability to chase Ray Allen, their lack of size not being able to hurt us, force Rondo to be a jump shooter or if not just foul him and send him to his weakness at the line. They are just ripe for the picking, to me. Plus, I would relish beating them due to my extreme dislike for 'em.

Thad Young is the x-factor for the Sixers. I don't think that Taj Gibson or Jeff Green are good enough to defend him.

For what it's worth, I don't think the Sixers have a shot at winning a series against the top 4 teams. I guess management would prefer to play Miami so that they sell out two games at a premium price

Problem with boston is that Big Baby man handles Thad on both sides of the ball.

It's sad that i'm a little bit worried about Shaq destroying Spencer Hawes, but it's a possibility, I know he's semi hurt, but if Shaq wants to he could man handle Spencer.

I'd still go Boston, then chicago, have no interest in Miami, they are a much better version of us.

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johnrosz reply to Jason on Apr 4 at 18:20
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I don't think Baby is quick enough to stop Thad from getting by him almost at will

Big Baby has surprisingly good foot work and can stay in front of thad.

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johnrosz reply to Jason on Apr 4 at 18:26
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yeah I know he's surprisingly solid for a blob, but I still don't see it.

Don't have to stay in front of thad, just have to force him right -

He's actually got a counter that these days, though it's usually a drive right that results in a spin back left when he gets a step away from the hoop.

Pretty sure they can sell out 2 games against the celtics, you'd hope they could sell out 2 games against the bulls.

Not sure they'd charge more for a heat home game versus a celtics home game - but would be curios if they did

since tickets are already on sale/many have been sold I don' think the opponent affects the price.

I forgot about the pre-sale - you're right.

Though they could still up them for single non pre sale tickets. If anyone can find out if they're hiked after the seedings are known that'd be good to know but even then no way to know if it's 'more' for the celtics or heat or bulls

Not even a pre-sale anymore, just officially on sale now.

Funny thing is sixer tickets are a few dollars more than Hawks playoff tickets.

After what the Hawks did at home in the playoffs last season, I'm shocked they can even give the tickets away.

...so who else on this team is shooting 3s better than 43% this year?

he was a career 31% 3pt shooter in the nba. I think his 43% might be inflated by the fact that nobody defends in the D-league.

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Tom Moore reply to Jason on Apr 4 at 22:39
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Agreed. Reputation is no D in D-League -- like NBA summer league.

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Tom Moore on Apr 4 at 21:54
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Daniels is in Boston with Sixers, but nothing finalized as of 9:35, according to Mike Preston.

Jason - I agree. Boston-Chicago and I want no part of Miami. Though I feel we might match up better against Chicago out of the 3, but Boston is older and bound to be less hungry since the team's won a title and been to the finals as well. I think Shaq's injury is bound to hurt the Celtics more than Lou's with the 76ers because they traded away Perkins and Jermaine O is not reliable either.

I'm afraid Doug Collins is too in-love with his stars that it hurts guys like Speights and Turner (yeah they haven't played well but it's also obvious Collins has zero confidence in them). Before the season some magazine predicted Turner would do badly under Collins. It's obvious that they are right, but a chunk of the blame falls on Turner as well. It just seems like he defers too much to Iguodala and others instead of being aggressive. I fear Collins is going to run Iguodala/Brand into the ground. He definately needs to go away from Iguodala in the crunch (at least last two minutes) if Iguodala scores it should be on a Thad-like put-back jam off an offensive miss. Also read that Brand is playing with a fracture in his left hand. I was hopeful for a 76ers first-round upset in playoffs but with Brand-Iguodala-Lou injuries my hope is fading fast.

People routinely undervalue Lou's game. Yes his FG % is low but he gets to the line more than anyone else on the team (especially when needed) and will at least take shots (and he has been more clutch than anyone ahem Iguodala ahem) and has the scorer's mentality. I'd much rather the ball in his hands to get a shot at the end over Iguodala or needing to get fouled to stay in a tight game. Iguodala shies away from contact and really doesn't follow up well after getting fouled on a shot. At least Lou learned from the original AI to keep focused and try to make the bucket.


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