DFDepressed FanDepressed Fan



, all the time

Not Nearly Enough

Entertaining write-up. You know I love the Spence, but just to shake things up, I'd start Holiday/Turner/Iggy/Brand/Battie on Thursday.

Meeks is providing nothing but maybe a three, and that's just not a starter. I'd give four minutes to Meeks and zero minutes to Lou.

I'd like to see Hawes come in for Iggy after about 6 min, and power through with a monster line of Holiday/Turner/Hawes/Brand/Battie and see if you can bully this team into fear.

Bring the physical play, it's known to rattle LeBron.

I wish Brand was invisible, the problem was he actually played. I give him credit for gutting out an injury, but once again, a broken hand doesn't have anything to do with your feet being glued to the court. He's getting outclassed and outworked by chris bosh of all people. There's no way the sixers have any kind of chance with that being the case. He seems like a prideful guy so he better lace up the boots and come out with a whole different kind of energy at home. If not, then just stick a fork in us.

Well Bosh is one of the best PFs in the game so I'm not sure I agree with "Bosh of all people."

That's ok, to each their own. I don't have a problem with you liking soft big men who prefer to shoot from 20 feet. :)

Lol, yeah I saw that in person. Quite amazing. Big Spence was pretty nasty that game by his standards.

johnrosz reply to stoned81 on Apr 19 at 1:30

It's just a shame that the other teams priority to start the game is to exploit/expose your 80 million dollar man. Bosh completely lit him up in every way imaginable. His effort is admirable (most of the time, unless he's closing out a jump shooter), but I know I'm counting down the days until he's gone.

...is anyone else starting to wonder if Mirakovitz could out-rebound Spencer at this point?

and if a four game ass kicking like this gets Jrue to grow into a full on take over games alpha dog next year, and Turner into be aggressive, rebound, and stop being invisible on the court all the time mode, then isn't this season still at least a partial success?

It's a success either way. Lot of guys got better and got playoff experience on top.

"Andre Iguodala is playing great defense in this series, but he's been a net-negative on the floor. He's giving the Sixers absolutely nothing on the offensive end. Nothing. Zero."

Well like I told you after you insisted he'd bounce back from his 4-point effort, I could easily see him averaging 10 for the series and right now he's at 4.5. For him to average 10, should we get swept, he'd actually have to score 31 over the next 2.

johnrosz reply to Tray on Apr 19 at 1:53

Still not happy that he played in a meaningless FIBA tournament. He's paying for it now


johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Apr 19 at 13:51

How so? He's logged a ton of minutes in the past few years, would have been wise for him to take the summer off. Spend his time recuperating, maybe even work on his free throw shooting...

Did Andre Iguodala's injury happen during the summer or during the regular season?

Was Andre Iguodala's injury caused by standard wear and tear on the body that could have been prevented from some rest?

Are all the other players who have played in numerous FIBA tournaments the past couple years breaking down in the playoffs or are you just looking for some reason aside from he's hurt, the sixers aren't that good, the heat are better to BLAME iguodala out of stupid fan hatred?

See, Nonsense...

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Apr 19 at 16:19

well, you don't seem to understand the nature of Iguodala's injury. I can't help you then...

The Greek reply to johnrosz on Apr 19 at 18:56

+ 1, you couldn't be more right rosz

It really sucks that we didn't draw the Celtics, but if we did play them pretty well then Hawes would have a decent chance of being with the team next year. If that happens now it will be lunacy.

I still hope they give us one more great effort. Like the character of this team and they need their 15 minutes in the national spotlight.

For the people who want to start Turner over Meeks, I don't think that's the real problem. Jodie is a threat on offense that either: 1. Takes up Wade and gives Jrue a chance to torture Bibby or 2. Is a huge mismatch against Bibby. Yeah, Turner scored tonight, but LBJ and Wade scored easy on him. These are the glaring problems in my opinion:

1. Hawes, Speights, and Battie. Our centers are painfully overmatched and they are doing a pitiful job rebounding.

2. Lou looks like a shell of himself without his burst. He doesn't have that bounce to his step that we know that he's capable of. That's a problem because he's probably going to have to score an efficient 20.

3. Joel Anthony is blanketing Thad, who I think has not tried to pump-fake all series.

4. Bosh against Brand is a bigger mismatch than we thought. He is scoring really easy against EB.

Honestly, we aren't this bad, but we match up terrible with this team.

speeke reply to Rich on Apr 19 at 13:45

i saw him pump fake a good deal last night. with varying degrees of success/failure. its crazy when a team actually has a shot-blocking big man (J. Anthony) who can alter shots and protect the rim

I think its normal for fans too over react too games like this but

1. Ai playing in fiba is not taking a toll on him, look at drose, durant, they our obviously doing fine. Ai has never been great offensively, he is being forced too shoot jumpshots. Let's hope that awkward jump shot can start falling.

2. If you look at the stats during the regular season during the heat Lou, thad, and brand struggled against the heat. Brand struggles against long forwards, we cannot expect Lou too score 20 a game coming off a hamstring injury, and thad, let's hope he can recapture that game one magic.

3. The player I expect too be killing his opponent is jrue. He is the only player on the floor with a advantage. Jrue should be torturing bobby and giving splostra headaches. Jrue looks like a good pg not a superstar and it might be too much ask a 20 year old but I feel he should looking like Jordan against bibby and chalmers.

My biggest knock on Coach Collins all year is that he hasn't found comfortable roles for Turner and Speights during the regular season. Now in the with Iggy and Brand really struggling he's trying to find magic down two games in the playoffs.

It's Collins fault that they've failed when given chance after chance to be productive this season?

Speights and Turner have no one to blame but themslves, for different reasons, for the lack of trust Collins has in them

Jrue sucked this game just like everybody else. If i hear that he is only 20 years old again i'll puke. He didn't step up, he turned the ball over, didn't get to the line once. he's gettting checked by bibby for pete's sake. he is looking more and more ordinary.

He's 20 years old, he had a great first game, you're over reacting and the sixers had no realistic chance in this series to start with.

He's 20 years old
He's 20 years old
He's 20 years old

Holiday: 157 games. 135 starts. 4,741 career minutes. The age reference is an excuse, like Iguodala's "balky" leg or Brand's microfractured/sore none-shooting left hand.

20 years old means young legs - advantageous for April. Jrue must mean more than 3.5 assists this series if a game is to be won. Looking first to pass, set up teammates, is a good place to start.

Jeff reply to Ty Game on Apr 19 at 14:09

I'm pretty sure you use both hands to shoot jumpers. Saying a fractured hand is not an excuse is just a poor argument.

There's a difference between a disabled broken hand and a sensitive guide hand due to a small fracture. The injury's not severe or he would've had some DNPs. A discomfort and a distraction, yes. But it's something to play through, which he is doing.

Jeff reply to Ty Game on Apr 19 at 21:00

Playing through it and having it affect your shooting form are two different things. I'm not sure why you're having trouble understanding this.

Long, aggressive defenders and pack attacks to ball when he's on block or turning left into lane, NOT his ailing but able off hand, affect his shooting form and accuracy. Brand shot 10-16 vs TOR 4/8, 9-15 vs ORL 4/11, post-injury ... there goes your theory; it was nice while it was unrefuted.

Jeff reply to Ty Game on Apr 20 at 0:09

That's great, if not irrelevent to the original argument, which was you referencing Brand's non-shooting hand not being a factor for his poor shooting recently.

A couple things you should consider:

1.) You use both hands to shoot jumpers. Brand shoots a lot of jumpers, especially against the better defensive teams that deny him access to the paint.

2.) A fractured hand can affect your shooting form, regardless of which hand is fractured.

3.) None of us are Elton Brand. We don't know how his hand is feeling from game to game. It is asinine for you to declare otherwise.

Although it's nice that you mention long defenders affecting his ability to hit shots, and I agree 100% with this statement, it's not part of the argument. I was talking about his mid-range jumpers. Nice try.

This interchange is where I exit. Cheers - to Elton's skeletal health, and to assorted fractured fairy tales!

Jeff reply to Ty Game on Apr 20 at 12:21

Cheers to your weak argument!

Flagrant 1, "Jeff": opposing team awarded 2 free throws and possession.

Typical Troll behavior

Presented with facts that disprove your purely fictional impossible to defend arguments - and you 'exit' claiming victory while not actually proving anything

Vacuous, suffuse charge.

Thanks, Charlie.

Jeff reply to GoSixers on Apr 20 at 15:34

I also noticed that trolls need to always have the last comment, as if that somehow confirms their "victory".

Jeff reply to Ty Game on Apr 20 at 0:19

For further reference:

6.9 of Brand's 12.1 FG attempts this season were in the 10-23 feet range. I'm pretty sure you need both hands to shoot from that range with relative accuracy.


No trouble. Brand's 3 consecutive April games of 11 for 16 (NY), 10 for 16 (TOR) and 9 for 15 (ORL) belie any reports of shooting form difficulty or obstruction. The spree shoots down rumors of practical impediment or handicap and leaves hand discomfort quotient to the "patient."

You've rephrased the specific to the general, and forgotten context of remark (observation of Brand), distorting the communication for argument's sake. First sentence, inanity - save your time.

Jeff reply to Ty Game on Apr 20 at 11:06

I understand that you need to be right for the purposes of your own pride. However, let's not forget why I countered your argument that his injury in his non-shooting hand is an excuse - it's a ridiculous claim from a fan watching from a television set. To say that there is no way his fractured hand is bothering his shooting is solely based on opinion, and thus, a weak argument. Of course, I have no doubt that he would manage to shoot better against weaker defenders that possibly don't require as quick of a release, or would allow him to get into the paint easier where he can shoot one-handed. I'm not doubting this, and your "evidence" that he shot well in three April games only tells part of the tale, yet you are using it as proof-positive - further evidence of a weak argument. That's fine. I understand your opinions reigns above all else.

We sometimes project onto others what we contain ourselves. Where's your ego in the back-and-forth? I estimate it's substantial, transparently so.

I'm done with Brand talk. Nonsense at this point. Happy basketball.

Jeff reply to Ty Game on Apr 20 at 15:44

If you actually cared to defend your ridiculous argument you would show better evidence, perhaps by breaking down his shot selection before and after the injury, showing average percentages on each type of shot. I believe that would be the most convincing way to show whether or not Brand's fractured hand has affected his accuracy or not. You boldly declared that it hasn't, yet you failed to show proper evidence of this. Therefore, it's a weak argument.
I suppose your daily trolling habits prevent you from ever taking the time to really strengthen an argument. But hey, you won! Right?!

hard to rack up assists when you're shooting 29% as a team. Jrue had plenty of nice dishes that should have been dimes but weren't finished

hard to rack up assists when you're shooting 29% as a team. Jrue had plenty of nice dishes that should have been dimes but weren't finished

eddies' heady's on Apr 19 at 9:56

Not unexpected. I stated this series would show our youth and lack of a go-to guy, and that's what's happening. This series also shows how really overpaid Iguodala is, along with Brand. The playoffs is when you earn your contract, not the regular season against the also-rans of the league. Thad is marginal until he can incorporate a consistent jumper or develop a right hand. Jrue is there one night and not there the next, and way too content to shoot jumpers that the Heat are invitingly giving up. The Heat don't even bother to guard Turner, just pretty much leaving him alone inviting him to shoot his favorite shot - a 20 footer. Speights is on Hawes level. Lou is definitely dinged up. And Meeks is often open weakside but not spotted by the guys on the strong side for whatever reason, and arguably not getting enough minutes to add another dimension that the Heat will have to respect so they won't sag and pack it in the whole game.

Oh, and Iguodala sucks major to be looking like he's looked these two games. He's become a seemingly disinterested turnover machine. Lastly, did I say Iguodala sucks and is overpaid?

well at least Turner has started taking the three instead of the the useless one dribble pull-up, long two. If he starts knocking down threes consistently it should open up lanes for him in the future. can't believe how bad he was getting exposed on D, but it was against Wade and Lebron, not exactly chumps.

"The only possible silver lining to a sweep is if it convinces Rod Thorn to cut ties with Spencer Hawes permanently. Part of me hopes they lose the next two just so I never have to see that stiff in a Sixers uniform again"

I made a similar comment in the game thread last night and couldn't agree more. Hawes has been so bad - especially with the fouls, that it has forced Doug into making a lot of moves with personnel. Ties into the Speights thing a bit, but to your other point Brian - if they thought Speights was a good matchup with the Heat, he should have been getting some run at the end of the year.

If the sixes were pondering a long term deal to Hawes before the playoffs started, they should all be fired immediately.

Four games is a small sample size. It should decide nothing (like a long term deal to a 7 foot stiff)

.571 - that's the winning percentage you can get away with in the playoffs and win an NBA championship (all series going 7 games) - in an 82 game season - that's 47 wins

Just like the NCAA tournament - don't make major decisions based on limited sample sizes.


Tray reply to GoSixers on Apr 19 at 11:36

No one said the Hawes decision should be based on the first round. Anyway, that .571 comment is stupid. Other than that it never happens (previous champs in the 7-game first-round era have gone 16-8, 16-7, 16-10, 16-4, 16-7, 16-7, 16-7, 16-8, for an average of .681), if you go .571 against playoff teams, you're actually very good, and that doesn't at all project to a 47-win season. Say Miami goes .571 against us, Boston, Chicago, and LA - I imagine if you looked at teams' combined records against those four teams, .571 would be one of the best numbers. If you're that good against those teams, you're probably good enough to win 58 games, not 47.

and if anyone knows a stupid comment, it's probably you huh?

Were the heat just 'toying' with the sixers in game one future lawyer man?

Prior to a few weeks ago this team rarely put up to lousy games in a row. I'm interested to see how they bounce back in game 3.

My best guess is a much more competitive loss- but I would not be shocked to see them lose big. If anything game 1 was more the anomaly when you look at their quality of play over the last 8 games. And prior to that they were very up and down dating back to the Bucks loss.

It's a shame. I would have really like to see how the Sixers of a month ago , prior to Brand/Lou/Iguodala wearing down. That team not only played better, but they were all able to stay within set roles and had much more confidence. We will never really know how that team would have performed.

Sixers have been winners in 1 of last 6, 4 of last 13, 11 of last 25 (Mar 1 through today, Apr 19 - over a month and a half). That's not a hiccup, that's a reflection of a more difficult schedule than Feb, opponents bringing greater crunch time intensity and skill, and of the Sixers' general talent level. You ARE seeing that team of a month ago perform in important games down the stretch and it isn't pretty. Collins' season-long blue streak of happy talk is inconsequential now. Playoffs have teeth.

Not to mention injuries.

Yeah, part of lacking stars is that everyone has to fill their roles for the team to have consistent success. It is what Collins means when he says they are greater than the sum of their parts.

So when a few previously consistent cogs lose their productivity from being banged up (Brand/Iguodala/Lou) then the other players and the entire team gets exposed- because they lack elite level players who can up their games for stretches to cover those holes.

Brand, Iguodala. Cogs? Maybe, but not moneytime winning ones. Expensive kicks in the head for team's decision-makers. But old news.

tk76 reply to Ty Game on Apr 19 at 13:18

Yeah, the Iguodala/Brand contract situation is old news. Not much you can do about it now.

Brand has the 17th highest salary in the NBA but is not a top 30 player. Iguodala has about the 35-40th highest salary and arguably is in that range as a player. And once a player signs a deal you judge them by their play and not their salary. Did you expect less from CP3 when he was making the rookie scale? If a guy is overpaid you need to blame the GM.

But if you want to build a contender you commit the majority of your cap over a 5 year stretch to two non-superstars. That is a recipe for a long stretch of being not terrible but non great (unless EJ is your coach- then you stink.) And this is why Stefanski should not be still a decision-maker for the Sixers.

Brand - "not a top 30 player" ... you are kind.

Iguodala - "arguably" ... adroitly inserted key word.

CP3 - a bargain is a bargain, who complains on that? Salary constraints of rookies/kids have no bearing on expectations of play, one way or the other. Got game, or not? I expect best effort, whatever that brings.

"You need to blame the GM" - I do, and express it by abstaining from ticket purchasing. I also blame the rest of the longstanding inner circle of "deciders."

Un-"stinky" Collins: +14 and a wipeout. Give him a playful noogie, he's worked hard. Especially at PR.

tk76 reply to Ty Game on Apr 19 at 14:41

The point is players should be judged by their play. GM's should be judged by the contracts they give them. So with CP3 he was a great player when he made 4M and he is a great player now that he makes 15M. The salary has a lot to do with how a GM builds a team- but has nothing to do with whether a player is good or not.

"Brand/Lou/Iguodala wearing down" - 50 other playoff players among the 15 other teams could fly that white flag.

the couple years before eddie jordan, weren't the sixers right around .500? and weren't they "young", "hungry", "dangerous" etc.? weren't they a tough first round out for (i think it was) the pistons and magic, in those seasons?

this team has made literally no progress in four years. stefanski or collins or thorn or whoever the f*ck should be deciding if it's it even worth it to hang on to a couple of these young guys.

blow it up; gut it. start from scratch. the feel-good story is over. i'm taking off my rose-tinted sunglasses.

I apologize if this post feeds into Iguodala bashers, but...

Let look back to the two seasons before Iguodala signed his contract. Compare Iguodala at 22-23 to the current 26 year old version (without the aching knee.) Overall is he a better player right now than he was then? He has cut down on TO's while improving assists... but is he overall better?


Look at his numbers the 2 seasons prior to his contract (age 23/4 as compared to the last 2 seasons. Yes numbers can be misleading as your role changes, but there are areas such as FTA, FT% and stl where he has regressed.

In some ways a caveat emptor for anyone deciding to put forth big money fro a non star at age 22-24 on the assumption that they will be a dramatically better player in their "prime."

tk76 reply to tk76 on Apr 19 at 14:26

age 23/4..........age 26/7
Pts: 18.2/19.9.....17.1/14.1
FTA: 7.3/6.2.......5.2/4.5
FT%: 82%/72%.......73%/69%
Reb: 5.7/5.4.......6.5/5.8
Asst: 5.7/4.8......5.8/6.3
stl: 2.0/2.1.......1.7/1.5
PER: 18.1/19.0.....17.8/17.3
eFG%: .471/.495....485/.486
TS%: .562/.543.....535/.530
TO: 3.4/2.6........2.7/2.1

So the TO and assist numbers are much improved... but again, is he a much better overall player?

Tray reply to tk76 on Apr 19 at 14:35

Well, his rebounds and assists are up. I guess he's become an even better defender, and I'm kind of okay with him playing a reduced role on offense because he was never that great at scoring anyway. Especially late in games, I'd rather run a pick and pop for Tony Battie than give him the last shot. His foul shooting sucks.

tk76 reply to Tray on Apr 19 at 14:38

But if you had a team and could have this year's Iguodala versus the 23 year old version, do you have a strong preference?

Tray reply to tk76 on Apr 19 at 20:52

Well... yeah, I think I definitely prefer this Iguodala. On a team with real talent, anyway, I would. On a team that's so offensively limited, like ours can be, it would be nice to get more out of him.

johnrosz reply to tk76 on Apr 19 at 14:42

he's a better defender.

That 08-09 year was pretty damn good looking back on it (don't think he'll ever shoot 47% again), but at this point it sort of looks like an outlier.

If the extension was given to him under the assumption that he'd become a 20+ ppg scorer, and the face of the franchise, he obviously hasn't lived up to it.

tk76 reply to johnrosz on Apr 19 at 14:56

He's better in some areas, worse in others. I think he was more explosive and fearless at 22/3. Now he plays/acts like he is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

I'm not saying he is the same player. he is different. I'm just not sure he is better. And part of the rationalle behind signing a 23 year old to a long, escalating contract is that his best days are clearly ahead.

You can safely assume that Jrue and Turner will improve some over the next 1-2 years. You cant knee-jerk assume that Jrue/Turner/Thad/Hawes/Speights will be dramatically better in 3-4 years than they are right now. And Iguodala's career arc is a fair example.

There are late bloomers like Joe Johnson, Nash and Billups. But a lot of really top players where elite level players by age 22. They added to their games, but did not necessarily become worlds better over the next 4-5 years.

Even just looking at superstars- I'm not sure Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Deron, Howard, Shaq, KJ, Melo were much better at 26 than they were at 22. And aside from Jrue, this roster has a ton of 22-24 year olds that they are banking on some serious improvement (well at least Turner and Thad, the other guys to a lesser extent.)

Are role players generally later bloomers than stars?

tk76 reply to tk76 on Apr 19 at 15:07

And I am not trying to bash Iguodala. He was a very good player at 23 and he still is at 27.

I'm more talking about this with respect to out "young Sixers team" and what extent of actually improvement should we hope for from the younger players over the coming years?

johnrosz reply to tk76 on Apr 19 at 15:21

Ben Wallace maybe? He wasn't really a "star" but I think his career arc is pretty impressive

tk76 reply to johnrosz on Apr 19 at 15:40

I asking about in general terms. I know players add things to their games throughout there careers. But it seems like 95% of top 20 players are at that level by age 22-3. But looking at players more in the top 40-80 range do they tend to reach their plateau later (say 24/5 vs 22/3)? Do bigs take that much longer to show they can play?

Again, this has particular relevance to the Sixers, who have so many young payers that they are counting on to improve.

To give you two counterexamples, Kevin McHale had a 13-year career that peaked in year 7 at age 29. More to the type of player Iguodala aspires to be, Scottie Pippen arguably peaked in years 7-10 at ages 28-31. If you compared Pippen's first 4 years to Iguodala's statistically, they would be almost identical. Obviously, Iguodala hasn't continued to improve scoring-wise the way Pippen did. But signing Iguodala to the extension after his 4th year and expecting scoring improvement was not entirely illogical (though it proved to be wrong -- his scoring average has gone down every year since).

smh1980 reply to tk76 on Apr 19 at 14:48

I think that he is a much improved player. I feel if he was on a team that didn't have so many flaws this wouldn't be a topic of discussion; however, he does need to have more talent around him to really show how good he is and get that knee right.

Iguodala is currently 27, since Jan 28.

We have lost big this year and have always came out focused. We are not a good road team. I think we will get a much better performance Thursday night at home. All of us watching every game this year know that this team is much better than what we saw Monday night.

Thank you for a positive post!

And anyone with an ounce of common sense knows the sixers weren't going to win this series.

Alvin reply to GoSixers on Apr 19 at 23:00

yes, we were never gonna win the series. but i certainly didn't expect a whopping like the one that happened in game 2. it was over in the 2nd quarter.

johnrosz on Apr 19 at 15:19

Anyone see that Dre's offensive rating is a whopping 65 through these first 2 games?

Tom Moore on Apr 19 at 16:30

Video: Collins doesn't like being asked about postgame "they're better than us" remark or difficulty of NBA teams overcoming 2-0 deficits after Tuesday's Sixers practice:


Tom Moore on Apr 19 at 16:39

Video: Williams on what Sixers must do to get back in series, how it's more what they're not doing than what Heat are:


Tom Moore on Apr 19 at 16:55

Collins looks ahead, not back at postgame comment after Sixers' Game 2 loss:


...does anybody know what Mutombo is up to these days?

Haverford College is giving him an honorary degree this Spring (really). Humanitarian finger-wagging beyond the call of the referees, I suppose. Scuttlebutt is, Matt Geiger was considered for his rescue buffalo farming but lost out on the basis of the burgers.

well played Buford, well played!

Thad finished third for 6th-man of the year. Odom won, Terry second. Agree w/ Odom, not so much w/ Terry.

Thad finished strong. Ran out of track. Bronze, nice accomplishment.

tk76 reply to Brian on Apr 19 at 23:31

So I guess the award is a consolation prize to a "starter" who subs in at the 4 minute mark? Both Terry and Odom are 3rd in minutes/game on their teams. Yes they don't start... but I don't see them as "bench players." They each play more minutes per game than 3 of their teams so called starters.

Tom Moore on Apr 19 at 20:25

Young: Sixers 'still have a chance' (with video):


Expand/Contract all comments

Leave a comment