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Hold Your Head Up

It was great to see you guys at halftime. Sorry the second half didn't turn out better, but I feel like we got our money's worth.

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Court_visioN reply to Brian on Apr 22 at 3:54
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backdoor lob was there all night for the Iguodala (or at least i felt it was). Several times he had a wide open lane and was ready to go to the basket but the passes never materialized for some reason.

We should have all agreed to meet up at the bar by Campos after the game. I should have initiated that one.

Halftime was the longest bathroom line ever.

Would have been smart to check the game thread on my phone pre-game also.

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Rob_STC reply to Brian on Apr 22 at 11:31
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Yeah, great seeing the guys. We have to do more of those ala "DF nights at the Sixers". I would agree somes nights after losses I leave shaking my head but the Sixers played well tonight and in the playoffs eventually superior talent wins out. This will be an interesting off season in that the last 2 we were looking for a coach and now I think it is imperative to try to make moves to upgrade this roster. I would like to see Thorn show he has a pulse and get something done. If that involves trading your best asset so be it.

Where were you guys ? I tried walking over to your section.

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johnrosz reply to Derek Bodner on Apr 22 at 16:33
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hey, have you gotten a chance to look at that 18 year old Brazilian center at all? Any chance he's worth a look? I know the Sixers have an aversion to international players, but seems like a high reward guy

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tk76 reply to johnrosz on Apr 22 at 16:49
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Sounds like Sam without the rebounding :) Called "baby" based on his personality :)

Haven't had a chance to really do much international yet (outside of watching a few Biyombo games). Will once the Sixers are officially bounced).

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Rob_STC reply to Derek Bodner on Apr 22 at 17:10
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I sit in 104, Brian was in 103 and Ryan was in 105 so we all met at PJ Whelihans at section 105 at half.

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Ryan F reply to Brian on Apr 22 at 18:18
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Same. Knew it was going to be tough to win. A hard fought game in April is well enough for me.

If Miami finds a way to add a few above average role players, they're going to be unbeatable.

Thats the Sixers team we have been watching all year, great game to watch and Wells Fargo was jumping! Great to see, we came up a little short but they left it all out their. Same energy Sunday and a few more rebounds, BEAT THE HEAT!

By far the best highlight of that game was this guy though: http://twitpic.com/4ny1ad

heh, there was a guy with a Nocioni jersey on :|.

Brian, great write up. I agree, every forum and philly sports radio show will be about trading ai.

1. Thank you jrue. You finally did what every analyst, fan, enemy was asking of you, and that was too dominate your match up. but you did more than that, you took ownership of the team, i dont agree that were ready too announce that this is his team yet. Jrue has done this before (okc game) and disappeared right after. lets see some more consistency first, but its good too know we have a superstar pg on our team.

2. ai should not be traded. He is all star, fiba star, and in my book defensive player of the year.

3. i was kinda disappointed too that collins didnt go back with turner or battie in the second half. Battie did play some pretty good d and he made a couple of shots and although turner didnt lock down lebron (ai didnt either), he looked good out there on both ends. Its pretty apparent meeks will not be the starter day one next year so at least give your future sg some pt.

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William reply to Dave on Apr 22 at 8:41
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I agree with You. Collins said in the papers yesterday that they didn't need to subtract anyone, but add to the pieces they have. I think all this team is missing is someone that could get you a an easy bucket when you need it. Easier said than done, those guys don't grow on trees, but me and a friend of mine were talking and saying that this team has a better "supporting cast" than that NBA finals team in 01. Just imagine an scorer on this team. 50-55 wins and a contender in the east. Hopefully Jrue develops into that guy or we can find a way through trades to get one. Getting a center is a priority as well, but I think is easier to attain. Talk Sammy into coming here again lol.

WE NEED A REAL CENTER!!!!! UGGHHHHH IT'S SO FRUSTRATING TO WATCH THE HEAT GET OFFENSIVE REBOUND AFTER OFFENSIVE REBOUND.

Ok, got that out of my system. LouWill looked a little more LouWill like last night. Hopefully he can go off at some point during the game on Sunday.

I could definitely see the Heat taking us lightly on Sunday. Hopefully we haven't packed our bags for summer yet and we can take advantage. Even down 3-0, I'd still like a win in the series. Fcking heat.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 22 at 9:17
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Yeah, Jrue had two rather decent games in this series and a so-so third one (game 2), but who exactly was he going toe-to-toe with to rise to the occasion - Bibby and Chalmers? Not too much to get excited over I'd say.

Jrue has had better stretches of games than this (the games on the West coast trip when Iguodala was out) only to conveniently flip off whatever switch that was on and make us all ask where did he go. I wouldn't bring out the anointing oil just yet until we see much more consistency.

As for Iguodala and his complementary role status, that's been taking place most of the year as he's taken a backseat to EB and Jrue at times throughout the year. Yeah, Doug's put the ball in his hands to initiate/create/close but it's not as if he's been the "unquestioned leader" (EB deserves a lot of credit here) or "best player" (Jrue and EB grasped this mantle several times this year). He's basically shown that he really isn't a Robin to a Batman anymore, instead more like a third wheel.

Column: Home court can't save the Sixers:

http://ow.ly/4F1FD

Strange to watch a competitive Sixers game and come out thinking: Man we really needed Sammy out there.

Circling back to the summer with that trade - when we were a 25 win team, I didn't mind taking a chance on Hawes in the event that a change in atmosphere kick started something. Don't get me wrong, it was an awful trade asset-wise, but expectations weren't great anyway.

Watching the lack of rebounding/boxing out from an elevated level really hammered home how much we could have used Sammy in a playoff series.

The Sam trade and the Andre Miller situation were similar. In both cases I fully understood why they were gone. But at the same time in seemed crazy to lose them without having a semblance of a plan to replace their production. They got lucky that they were able to get Jrue at #17 and he has developed s quickly. But I doubt replacing Sam's rebounding and defensive presence will be as easy.

Financial considerations are paramount in sixers moves, basketball considerations an afterthought, both those moves reflect that.

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Apr 22 at 16:46
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The financial situation is worse after the Sam trade. His contract expires this year; Hawes' and Nocioni's don't.

Another end to the Sixers year. Miami has 2 of the top 3 players in the LEAGUE playing most of the game. And Bosh is easily top 15 to 20 himself, as much as you may dislike him. The Sixers don't have anyone in the top 30, or maybe even top 40. What more can you say---unless Turner or Jrue become that-or maybe Thad or a lucky draft pick, this is going to be a 6,7 or 8 seed team for the next 5 years. They played hard, heat are just better, by a pretty big margin. At no point did I think the Sixers would win even one of these games in the 4th quarter, and thats the difference between having superstars vs a few good to pretty good players. (and some pretty bad ones)

BOsh top 20 is a stretch, wade is not top 3 - but aside from that - valid points.

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Charlie H reply to GoSixers on Apr 22 at 16:50
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I think Wade is top 1. He puts more pressue on the defense than anybody else, in my opinion. And he's a great defender.

I don't even consider Wade the best player on his team.

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tk76 reply to Gdog on Apr 22 at 17:09
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Part of it is that the Sixers can't win close games. There are teams without big name stars who can pull out their fair share of tight wins- but the Sixers have struggled late in games all year. And likewise, there are star driven teams who struggle to win close games (Miami earlier in the year.)

So the Sixers have to either get a big enough lead to hold on for the win (like they did against the Bulls, Celtics and Spurs earlier this year) or they will either lose close or badly. And the Sixers lack the talent to ever really pull away from the Heat.

As much as I like Iggy and have loved watching him play. If this team wants to build into a contender, IMO they need to trade either him or Turner and I think we all know who is going to bring more in a trade ( not saying I think Turner sucks). I think we need more than one legit center we need that and a 4/5 to come off the bench or let brand come off the bench and maybe play fewer min. per game to keep him more rested. The only way I see us getting that is through a trade for another player or a trade that brings in more draft picks.

Actually I think Turner brings back more in a trade, teams are interested in potential with small contracts. ET-haters seriously underestimate his value.

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tk76 reply to stoned81 on Apr 22 at 13:40
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The #2 overall pick has a contract about the same as the MLE. He will make 5M/6M/7M over the next 3 years. That is about 1M per year less than Lou but way more than someone like Jrue makes. So the "bargain salary" does not help his value as much. Even a #7 pick like Monroe makes only about 1/2 as much as Turner.

As I said just below, Turner has $4.9M guaranteed remaining, Iggy $44M.

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eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on Apr 22 at 14:50
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Problem is, he doesn't have a small contract.

LOL. Turner has $4.9M guaranteed remaining on his contract. Iggy has $44M guaranteed remaining.

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eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on Apr 22 at 15:05
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So you're saying that a guy that looks like a borderline D-Leaguer to the rest of the league, someone wants to pay him 5 million?

And you also said the dreaded word "potential". What potential does a near 23 year old with limited athleticism and a broken shot, yet fancy dribbling that carries him nowhere, possess?

"Broken" shot that was 48% from the field and 70% from three in the final two months of the season including the playoffs.

I know you hate ET, and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion and blogs are all about opinions. But there's hatred, which is fine, and then there's being completely wrong, which is saying no team would try out Turner for a paltry $5 million.

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johnrosz reply to eddies' heady's on Apr 22 at 15:23
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you're just gonna have to give the kid another year. you get to be right so far, hard to say he was the right pick after the rookie campaign. I just hope you're ready to get a ton of shit if he somehow does put it together(obviously unlikely) but still possible.

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eddies' heady's reply to johnrosz on Apr 22 at 21:03
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Huh? Why does it always have to be about what/who's 'right'? And spare me the 'so far'. It's just another hardcore fan's opinion that's all.

But it's pretty hilarious that I already "get a ton of shit" for seeing a guy a different way all year, but then must prepare to "get a(nother) ton of shit" for feeling that way no matter the outcome? If the guy somehow goes way against the grain of what you and I seem to somewhat now agree on? The admitted unlikely part.

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tk76 reply to stoned81 on Apr 22 at 15:09
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He has 18M remaining. Anyone who is going to trade for him is not about to let him walk as an unrestricted FA after 1 season. And you have to guarantee the year options 1.5 years in advance.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Apr 22 at 15:11
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He will also have a cap hold of about 12M when he is a RFA in 3 years. I did not count that towards the 18M.

Its not a huge contract. But it is significantly more than guys outside the top 5 are making.

True, it's more than the guys outside the top 5. And I agree, no team is going to let him walk if they trade for him. But that's because they expect him to be good. It's very little risk.

I just hope we're not dumb enough to trade a guy who shot 48% from the field and 70% from 3 the final 2 months.

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johnrosz reply to stoned81 on Apr 22 at 15:25
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small sample size. I think he'll be alright too but it's hard to say that jumper isn't seriously flawed, if not totally broken

Well he shot a higher 3 point percentage than Kobe, Russell Westbrook, and Joe Johnson shot as rookies. An entire season is a small sample size, but after just a rookie campaign, he's no more broken than guys like Westbrook and Johnson who became stars.

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eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on Apr 22 at 21:35
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When this guy shoots it and "gets his" as good as Johnson, or has the speed, explosiveness, and athleticism of Westbrook, or the capability to take over and be lethal like Kobe, notify me OK?

I like Iguodala, and I appreciate his defense and his ability to run the offense. That being said, scoring less than 20 points in 3 games is unacceptable.

Reading some writeups now - the Heat put James Jones on Iggy at the end of the game and let Wade and Lebron defend elsewhere.

Yeah, I mentioned that above. Jrue had LeBron on him for most of the fourth. Wade was on Lou.

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emtmess reply to Daniel on Apr 22 at 10:57
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Thats the funny thing about Iguodala, on this team he needs to score and do everything else he does. Witch is not his strong suit. When I saw him in FIBA play I saw what type of team he might work best with. A team where he is the third option. A team when he has a bad night scoring he could just let the rest of his game help his team win. I think Jrue is shapping into the type of player that could be the second or even a first option. But where do we get the other scoring option from.

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tk76 reply to emtmess on Apr 22 at 11:23
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I feel like since FIBA Iguodala has if anything seemed like a worse scorer than he used to be.

During the World Championships I kept thinking how bad Iguodala's shot and touch looked. I was used to him being an awkward but effective scorer and a guy who can hit some shots. But its almost as if his increased focus on being a perfect complimentary player has caused his offensive skills to regress or atrophy. or maybe just an energy or confidence thing?

But in terms of this series, I think a lot of it can be chalked up to his knee injury taking away his expansiveness and throwing off his shot.

I'm going to guess you meant "explosiveness"?

One thing I remember about 08-09 is that DiLeo designed plays to get Iguodala free for lob dunks. This would get him feeling good about his game (not to mention improving his shooting percentages -- he shot 47% with a TS% of 56% that year). That has been entirely missing for him since Miller (the best lob passer in the NBA) left. Not sure how good a lob passer Jrue can be, but they don't even try.

Amazing how Miami has prevented almost all dunks by the Sixers in this series ...

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tk76 reply to Statman on Apr 22 at 12:11
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Sorry, lazy with the spell check.

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Court_visioN reply to Statman on Apr 22 at 12:16
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i feel like Collins' insistence on taking care of the ball is taking away those options. a backdoor lob is a risky pass.

In this series, it's not a bad thing though, because Miami has been devastating of live ball turnovers. Even off bad shots, they have been getting hoops in transition.

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tk76 reply to Rich on Apr 22 at 16:03
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And this is happening when the Sixers are hardly ever turning the ball over. 22 assists to only 8 TO's.

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tk76 reply to Statman on Apr 22 at 12:23
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To what degree do you think Iguodala's re-dedication to defense and play-making has taken away from his scoring. Obviously his raw scoring numbers are down. But more importantly his FT%, %of inside shots taken, rate of and1's have gone down.

But oddly his 3pt% and FG% at the rim have gone up. While his FG% at 3-9 has gone down. His FG% at 10-16 and 16-23 ft has been right about at his career norms.

Probably suggests he is taking better shots from 3pts and higher quality looks near the rim (although less of them by being more selective, less aggressive.)

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Andre%20Iguodala

So the numbers don't fully bear out my subjective take on his shooting. But they do confirm he has "settled" for more jumpers when you look at: http://www.82games.com/1011/10PHI6.HTM

Inside shots 22% of total attempts in 2010/11.
29% of total shots in 2009/10
36% of total shots in 2008/09

That trend is going badly in the right direction. He has regressed from a Lebron style game to a Kobe style game. And it really exposes his shotty jumper.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Apr 22 at 12:40
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Should read "badly in the WRONG direction." A much higher proportion of his shots taken are jumpers, and it has gotten worse each of the last 2 years. This has been compounded by drawing less FT's (altjhough maybe not a bad thing with his FT%/)

Going from 36% to 29% and now only 22% for proportion of inside shots kills his efficiency when you consider his FG% on inside shots is near the league best at .686 as compared to jumpers where his eFG% is .423 (which is actually near a career best.)

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Apr 22 at 12:49
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To put it in perspective in terms of game style and efficiency (I am not saying their games are comperable, just talking about what type of shots they take):

Iguodala:
22% of shots are inside at .686%
78% of shots are jumpers at eFG% .428%

Kobe:
15% of shots are inside at .614% (the 15% is a career low. He was morelike 25% in his prime)
85% of shots are jumpers at eFG% .463% (about a career best eFG%. So taking more jumpers but hitting more of them)

Lebron:
31% of shots are inside at .697% (As a Cav was 36% of his shots)
69% of shots are jumpers at eFG% .473% (much higher eFG% than as a Cav. getting much easier looks on Miami for obvious reasons)

Iguodala 2008/9:
36% of shots are inside at .721%
64% of shots are jumpers at eFG% .388%

...So Iggy 2 years ago played the way he should in terms of making a living in the lane. His jumper was even worse, but it did not hurt him as much since he took a much lower proportion of jumpers.

To what degree do you think Iguodala's re-dedication to defense and play-making has taken away from his scoring. Obviously his raw scoring numbers are down. But more importantly his FT%, %of inside shots taken, rate of and1's have gone down.

I think multiple factors are in play:
(1) His injuries have robbed him of a half-step or so on penetrations. So whereas in past years he might have gotten all the way to the rim, this year he's finding his path blocked and passing off more [or finishing poorly]. Against a good defense like the Heat, this is glaringly apparent.
(2) Given his poor shooting touch, he's never been someone who can go several minutes without shooting, then take and make a high percentage of his shots "cold." For him, the "touch" comes after several plays in the flow of the game. In 08-09 [after Brand was hurt], every other play was designed for him to get the ball foul line down, as a threat to score or pass. This year, the primary play is for him to penetrate and set up Brand for an open jumper. It's worked for the most part for this offense, but Iguodala's own shooting has suffered as a result.
(3) It's possible that he's conserving energy for defense. But I think it's more likely that this team has more scoring options than the 08-09 team, meaning that fewer plays are run for Iguodala, causing #2 to come into play.

p.s. to Brian: you've been one of Iguodala's staunchest defenders on the Internet through the past several years, sometimes praising him when even I wouldn't, but I think you missed his contribution in this game. Without his passing in the first quarter and the early part of the third (the 12-0 run), the team is behind 15 entering the 4th. The big problem in this series, as I see it, is that nobody on the Sixers can get their own shot easily, except when Jrue is guarded by Bibby. So to get good shots in the halfcourt, the Sixers need to penetrate-and-dish or set good picks (which rarely happens). Iguodala has been doing the penetrate-and-dish effectively for the most part. Even in the 4th (I'd have to watch it again to be sure), I believe he got Thad and Brand open jumpers that missed. Maybe it looked different live, but from what I could see he was a net positive to the team in this game.

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tk76 reply to Statman on Apr 22 at 14:18
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Agree with all of your points.

Good points - was listening to some sports talk radio today and the Iggy hate was in full effect (points are the only thing that matter) but I think folks forget the energy in checking lebron + having lebron defend him on the other end (when it wasnt James Jones) + still being hurt.

I love when the Sixers get some mainstream press in the city but it's still glaringly apparent most hosts/callers are idiots around the NBA.

Couldn't be more proud of these guys tonight. It's a shame that we couldn't get the W. Jrue looked awesome.

If we could only get a good game from everyone at once. It always seems like we have 2 or 3 guys that just can't get it done every game. Brand had a nice bounce back from game 2 but Thad really struggled. It seems like the sixers focus was to get Iggy, Brand and Hawes going early. Iggy continues to struggle and his shot selection was really poor in that 4th quarter. Even the one jumper he made was a bad shot. I don't know what the answer is for him. I saw a video from Iggy's off season that said he trained by making at least 1000 shots a day. Why can't he improve in this area?

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tk76 reply to smh1980 on Apr 22 at 12:53
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"If we could only get a good game from everyone at once"

Its one of the downsides of the Sixers lack of stars. they sort of play "star by committee" where they get "star production" from different players each night. Whereas teams with "real stars" can rely on consistently high production from their core guys every night.

Benching Turner and Battie in the 2nd half was nonsensical and makes me really wonder if Doug Collins is any good at all as a head coach. He was complaining about rebounding and he keeps two of his better rebounders on the bench!

Collins is a good motivator, and he followed the worst coach in NBA history, so he looks OK. But in reality, the man stinks at in-game adjustments.

Well, Hawes didn't play much in the 2H - they went with Brand/Thad so I'm not sure who Battie would have been in for.

I liked Battie's minutes in this one - remember when we signed him in the preseason? That was a funny thread here. All things considered, i'd say he earned his modest salary for the year.

Hypothetical question:

Lets say the Sixers don't trade Sammy last summer, and Doug gets him to buy into Rebounding, Defense, and throwing down lobs. Are the Sixers the 5 seed?

If that's true, do we try to get him back (for significantly less money) in the summer? All of this is assuming they don't blow the team up, but they pursue one piece that they think will make a difference.

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tk76 reply to Kainer on Apr 22 at 14:16
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I would resign Sam to a low number. But I don't think the Sixers or Sam has that in mind. he has found his niche starting next to Cousins. He probably looks like a low TO player next to him :)

Can we sign Sammy and Jr Smith ?

I like Iggy--but he is really our only tradeable asset. Not sure if someone would give up a end of game closer ( or someone who has the potential to be) for him. Whos available ? Montae Ellis ?

Getting to play Miami might be good in the long run for the front office. Getting them to see them play against the team that will be the class of the conference for years to come and how far we need to go is ultimately a good thing. Then there will be no overreaction from taking the Bulls six and saying "See, we're good!"

Plus, I hope this sets up for a much smarter summer where they don't go overboard trying to Hawes and Thad.

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Tom Moore on Apr 22 at 16:39
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Wade: 'We want to close this series out':

http://ow.ly/4FljL

Iguodala is currently averaging more assists(8.7) and more rebounds(6.7) than points(6.3) in this series. Shooting 28% including 1 for 8 from 3pts. Scoring less than half of what he did when he got "shut down" by Detroit in the playoffs, although his FG%(.333) and 3pt% (0.143) was nearly as horrid.

Either more hurt than we are led to believe or Lebron should get defensive player of the year (or James Jones ;)

I want to give Iguodala credit for his passing, defense and gutting through an injury. But it is hard to look past those numbers. I realize he is not in an ideal situation for a player of his talents, but you have to figure his trade value takes a hit.

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tk76 reply to tk76 on Apr 22 at 21:24
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My favorite playoff stat:

Nocioni in 10 minutes has a PER of -17.1. Did not know you can go negative like that.

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eddies' heady's reply to tk76 on Apr 22 at 21:31
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Is his trade value taking a hit worse than our team taking another hit (.500 season) and his trade value descending again?

Yeah I kind of look at it as he's been affected by the injury a little bit. I think he should have some decent value around the league when you look at the amount of teams that could use a great defender. As much as I like him, if the Sixers could trade Iguodala to bring back a good big man, that might be the way to go, especially with the expected development of Jrue and Turner over the next couple years.

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eddies' heady's on Apr 22 at 21:28
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Can we hire Ray Allen after he retires just to teach our players how to train and prepare for the game?

Amazing how good he still is, isn't? He looked done in '09 IIRC.

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eddies' heady's reply to Rodney Buford on Apr 22 at 22:50
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don't recall him looking done, ...ever....

Never thought I'd see a better one than Reg but damn if I haven't. He's the best I've honestly ever seen; not because of the record either.

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South Broad on Apr 22 at 23:01
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The nice thing could be the teams' management realizes they need structual, which coincides with personnel, changes. It would do a fanbase good. Better now than never. The three year plan away from being a three year plan is tiresome. Out of breath. Change can be positive.

Story: Heat want to end it Sunday:

http://ow.ly/4FsR5

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eddies' heady's on Apr 22 at 23:28
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Would you rather have a guy like DJ Mbenga over Hawes? I would....Trade for him somehow....

He's reminiscent of a young Mutombo, but not so much in the literal and the historical.

So just like in the sense that if you slice Mutombo's talent into twenty little pieces and gave one to Mbenga, that would be a solid description of what Mbenga is as a player?

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eddies' heady's reply to Tray on Apr 23 at 10:53
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Pretty much, which is ten times what Hawes is.

Oy, watching the game broadcast for the first time and Mirakovitz interviewed Stern, asked him for a prediction, and he said "the referees will do a great job" with one of the most smug looks one will ever see...


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