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Searching For a Fit

Thanks, my exact question was not so much about likely trade partner/destination...

But what teams would be most positively impacted by adding Igudoala as a starting wing?

Yeah, what he said. I think I answered your question, even if I didn't ask it correctly.

Wow, I did not see your extended post, just the initial "stub."

I'll start out West in the Pacific:

Lakers: Adds the athleticism they seek. But I feel he would have been a better pairing with Kobe a few years ago. Certainly an upgrade, but I'm not sure it is what they need if it means giving up a big.

Phx: Again an moderate upgrade. But I don't see Nash/Iguodala working. An upgrade over VC, but not the type of shooter who would thrive off of Nash's passing.

Clippers: Perfect fit between Mo Williams and Eric Gordon. That team could make a huge jump in the standings if the added Iguodala. especially if they kept both centers and only gave up trash and the Minny pick. That is a 50-60 win team in the next 1-2 years with Iguodala.

GSW: Another fantastic fit between Ellis and Curry. But I wonder if his passing/point skills would be a bit wasted sine Ellis and Curry would not share the ball-handling duties. Also, D. Wright already as a good value fit at SF... With Iguodala a 45 win team but could miss the playoffs out West.

Sac: Good fit as a ball handler and defender. Poor fit given Iggy and Tyreke can't shoot. So overall I'd say he does not improve them enough to make the playoffs.

I think the west teams that are gonna be calling trying to get Iguodala the most would be Houston, Denver, and Golden State. Do you think any of those can give back an acceptable package while keeping their core intact? Maybe the best option would be Denver since they got the trade exception? Andre would do awesome there.

The Clippers should trade for Iggy. It's obvious that a Sixers/Clippers trade makes so much sense for both clubs.

The Clippers most glaring need is a small forward and Iggy --like Brian stated--would be a perfect fit for the LAC.

The Clippers would have a nice balanced roster with perimeter shooters in Williams, and Gordon, a low post player in Griffin, and a shotblocker in Jordan.

Plus besides playing in a different conference from us, the Clippers also have a nice trove of assets to trade.

sfw reply to Hector on May 11 at 7:33

I agree. He would be a perfect fit for the Clippers. A couple posts ago someone made the point that he should be a target for those eastern conference teams trying to pass the Heat. Just seems like those teams don't have the assets to give us. Orlando included. Just give us Kaman and the Minny pick and get it done.

Ai-Love_Hate on May 11 at 7:11

Why don't you guys think iggy is a decent catch-shoot 3 point shooter, I think he makes an ok. Can someone look up his catch and shoot percentage numbers for me?

Ai-Love_Hate on May 11 at 7:12

*i think he shoots a higher percentage off of catch and shoot.

he probably does better than we think but still he's not a threat from 3. In the overall scheme of things when you're building your team, that really matters.

deepsixersuede on May 11 at 7:26

I think a team with cap room steps up with the best offer; Sacramento, with Petries comments about adding a veteran playmaker in their frontcourt makes the most sense to me.

Evans and Thornton played well together at the end of the year without a playmaking 3 and they have enough caproom to possibly trade for Iggy, resign Sam and resign Thornton.

A starting five of Sam/Cousins/Iggy/Thornton and Evans is pretty impressive and is it any less shooting than we put out there.

We get #5 pick, Casspi and caproom, a big, a shooter to pair with our #16 pick [Singleton?] and caproom to pay Thad and acquire a veteran big.

The clippers and Gold. St. are my 2 other best destinations with Minnesota a possibility if Kahn doesn't want to use his pick to draft yet another p.g.[Irving] or p.f.[D.Williams].

If M.Brown or Casey get the Gold. St. job, Iggy may be their target right away, but what do they give? Ellis and Udoh?

As Brian has said. Not enough shooting with Iggy & Evens together.

What's your Minnesota idea? If we could pry a Williams draft pick from them, I'd be happy. He'd be nice to have as a 3/4. Could be that star we are looking for. At the least we could get a big man with the pick.

I have to say Kaman + Wolves 2012 pick for Iguodala makes too much sense right now. It's simple, effective and it really helps both teams. The only question is whether the Clippers are willing to take back Iguodala AND resign Jordan. And of course we don't know what the Clippers actually think of Iguodala and how much they value him...

Right now the value of that trade is questionable until the new CBA is decided, and even then I don't feel it's enough for Iguodala

I would like to see Aminu in that trade as well to make it even, but i don't think he should be a dealbreaker. I'm not very high on him anyway...

A draft pick and an expiring contract is enough for Andre Iguodala?

I think its a fair offer imo, for sure sixers aren't getting a better offer than that.

For sure huh? Absolutely certain that no one would over more than that lowball offer?

I am not precognitive so I don't know for sure that's the best offer

That has always been the biggest problem for a long time when talking about trading Iguodala. Noone really knows what's out there, and what are GMs willing to give up for him. He is after all a unique talent and that makes him difficult to evaluate what his actual value is. My best guess is for different teams he holds vastly different value...

I disagree with the basic premise that a 'bad' team would be interested in him.

As I see it the only teams I see interested in him are teams about to turn the corner between playoff team to contending team. A team that needs one more piece to cross the tipping point as it were.

Which is why i think the Clippers and the Warriors are probably the best trade partners. Both teams feel like they have underachieved this season (for various reasons) and are closer to a playoff team than a lottery team. Adding Iguodala might mean for them making a jump to a borderline contender. Not that i agree with the reasoning, but i think it's very viable that that's their line of thoughts.

Except that what I said was a playoff team ready to turn the corner, neither of those teams is a playoff team ready to turn the corner, and the Warriors are just a flipping mess. I don't think the warriors would want him nor do i think he's a good fit in a rudderless organization like that.

As for the clippers, people have been perpetuating this kaman thing for months. It's still one of those things I believe is rumor that was just repeated so much it's more than rumor. I'm sure the source is a blog or radio voice spit balling.

Well i see it as a top 5 pick plus a decent stop gap center. It's not perfect but it's better than most of the trade scenarios out there. It's certainly better than Gay for example....

Would you trade Iguodala for a one year center and a top 5 pick in the 2011 draft?

ryano reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 10:54

I think the value can be approximated fairly well for the Sixers. Kaman is what he is- an upgrade to Hawes for sure. The pick is going to be AT LEAST Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, or another hold over from this years draft who could have been number one this year. If Minnesota has the worst record in the league next year- a good possibility- the pick would be no worse than top 4? Top 3? Not a terrible haul for Iguodala.

In terms of improving our young core- we could focus on getting a defensive/athletic big in this years draft and take the best available next year. At that point Brand is worth a lot with his expiring contract and we have a do over in terms of cap space.

The 2012 draft pick can not be valued until the new CBA is negotiated due to the possibility of a change in age restrictions on the draft.

If a trade is not done by June 30th, it can't be done until after the CBA is negotiated.

So the sixers can rush into something, or they can be smart.

ryano reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 11:14

The hold overs from this years draft would almost certainly meet the age restrictions in the new CBA and there are no guarantees about who comes out from next years freshman class anyway- plus projecting performance a year out is almost impossible- so if the Sixers really like the top 3 hold outs from this year (Barnes, Sullinger, etc...), there isn't much of a difference in waiting.

If they know that trade would still be on the table after the CBA then by all means wait. But what if the new CBA changes LA's mind about holding on to the pick?

I like the trade because of cap relief and building on our young core with the high possibility of adding an elite prospect. Not the perfect move for the Sixers- but a good one.

If freshman can't come out in the 2012 draft, the 2012 draft will be worse than the 2011 draft, because it'll just be all the guys who didn't think they were good enough to come out in 2011 and thus will have more flaws exposed and be less hyped than they were this year.

You can't blow off the age restriction change and justify that 2012 will still be a good draft when most of the hype towards the perspective 2012 draft is because of those freshman, not the ones who stayed in school this year, but the ones coming in.

Few guys who stay in school when they are projected lottery picks EVERY improve their draft position (just ask Tyler Hansborough how staying in school helps your draft positioin)

The 2012 pick will be much less valuable if the age limits change because it makes the 2012 pick a shallow pool

That is true but from what i've read if there is a higher age limit it has a good chance to be coupled with an option for high school players to be able to directly bolt for the NBA. If they opt for the NCAA, they will be forced to stay there for at least 2 seasons or until they reach a certain age...

But the truth is until the new CBA is reached, noone will know for sure...

I don't know where you read that high school senior thing, but it sounds like balderdash to me.

Why would the players care if high school seniors can get into the NBA? The owners don't want it because the want to evaluate players at a higher level.

I've always felt the Players 'caring' about this is a smoke screen and a 'straw' bargaining point. They don't care if it's freshman or sophomores or high school seniors, but if they posture that they do then it looks like they're 'conceding' something in the negotiations.

The head player rep is Derek Fisher - you don't think he wants to keep youngins out a year longer to possibly extend a career that really should be over?

Players not in the NBA are not part of the players union - so why should they care when they enter the NBA? There will always be more available players than roster spots, unless the rookie scale is reduced to mathch the veterans minimum, why would anyone care?

ryano reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 12:32

We aren't talking about the draft as a whole- and we aren't talking about guys who didn't think they were good enough for the NBA- we're talking about a top 3 pick. Barnes and Sullinger would both be considered top 5 this year- Sullinger probably number 1. These are guys who are scared of getting locked out of basketball next year and who also love playing college hoops.

If the Sixers are high on those two players- the draft will not be a weak one in the top 3. If they aren't high on the top three in the draft, then don't do the deal.

You're ignoring a couple points

Them not coming out this year made it a weaker draft, if freshman can't come out in 2012 you're stuck with the freshman who didn't come out this year (diluted by freshman who DID come out this year) and guys who weren't good enough last year to be a first round pick.

The only source of NEW talent in the draft would be eligible euros. How could that draft POSSIBLY be good when it's a few guys who lack self confidence and the left overs not good enough for this year.

And I don't care who the names are - show me a lottery pick who stayed in an extra year and didn't have his draft vluation drop because ofit - the long you're in college the longer teams have time to expose your weaknesses and the lss upside you have, it's just how it works.

Again, 2 guys isn't a persuasive argument to risk dumping your best player for an expiring contract and the detritus of the 2011 draft

ryano reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 12:58

I understand your points- I really do. And I agree that next years draft has the potential to be very weak if freshmen are not allowed to declare.

My point is- the freshmen who did not declare this year were probably the best players in the 2011 draft. If freshmen are not able to declare next year AND the best freshmen of this years draft are available next year- I believe it's a high likelihood that the top players this year will remain the top players next year. If next years freshmen can't declare, I think the draft valuations will remain constant precisely because of that. Not the norm- but it's what will happen. Because EVERYONE has to wait, there won't be new blood next year to compare these players to in terms of draft positions.

The 2011 draft needs to be looked at as a stand alone draft because of all the issues surrounding the draft. I don't believe the reason the top players decided to stay in school is lack of self confidence- I think it had more to do with loving school (nothing wrong with that) and being scared off by the CBA (nothing wrong with that either). Nobody wants to get drafted then sit.

A guy like Sullinger would be great for the Sixers. Tough, gritty scorer inside. Very Brand-like. He'd be great backing Brand up for a year and learning the ropes or stepping right in if we traded EB. So- if the Sixers are that high on the guy- it makes some sense to go for it. If the 2011 freshmen can declare, well then we really hit the lottery with a top 3 pick.

ryano reply to ryano on May 11 at 13:03

Oh- here's the other big name- Perry Jones! These three would have been this years top three in some order- minus Barnes going after Irving possibly. Take a look at next years mock drafts for 2012- Draft Express has them going 2,3,4- WITH all the new talent. If there is no new talent, I don't see how their draft stock can drop significantly barring injury or personality meltdown.

Is Perry Jones the guy from baylor who is a lot of hype with out a lot of substance and people are already questioning how far he'll drop after his rawness is exposed for another year at baylor?

If they're the 'best players' then why didn't they declare? What are they afraid of? Why aren't they wanting to at least take that shot to be getting the NBA money sooner rather than later, as opposed to risking injury with no support.

History indicates guys who stay in school longer slip in the draft, I'm not talkinga bout specific names I'm talking about the general overall of it, you've got 3 names, big deal, after those three names the draft could be worse than this years AND the top 3 is lottery so you can't depend on having them.

ryano reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 13:16

Find me another time when the top three players projected in a draft all stayed in school. It's NEVER happened. We can't use history to compare other drafts to this one. It's completely unique. History is going to show this draft was an enigma.

This all points to a common reason why those guys stayed. I think they are high character guys who decided to stay because they think they can get better- not that they can't play at the next level- AND because of the very real potential of a lockout. If you're a guy who really cares about improving his game do you choose to work on your game on your own for 3 or 4 or more months and then get thrown into the NBA or do you go back to school, play elite college hoops, continue to learn to win, hone your skills, and have the time of your life knowing the NBA will be there a year later?

I think that's where these guys are coming from. Plus, the elite prospects can get injury insurance valued at millions of dollars. The same people who advised them to go back to school I'm sure advised them to invest in that type of insurance. So money isn't as big of an issue as it might seem- or at least as not as big of a risk.

I disagree with a multitude of the points you jsut made but it's not worth it to get into it, but since you've veered off into the esoteric (bs) of 'character' and such, I'm bowing out because I think it's a crock in regards to what they're doing and staying. I think they got bad advice and I think IF the 2012 draft allows freshman in - they'll regret it more than if it doesn't but they'll still be seen as 'less than' they are seen as now, regardless of if they stay top 3 picks the hype won't be as high, especially if jones doesn't figure out how to play basketball better

ryano reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 13:33

I only made two or three points there.

In summation:
1. These three will either be the top three hold overs or there will be a very good 2012 draft for the Sixers to choose from.
2. If the Sixers are high on all three- it's a win-win- you either get one of the top three players from this years draft with more seasoning or you have a top three pick in a very deep draft.
3. If the Sixers aren't high on these guys it isn't worth the risk.
4. It really doesn't matter if their 'hype stock' drops- they will be the same players at the end of next year, all worthy of a high pick.

Unless one or more of them blows out a knee/gets arrested.

None of those three guys is a sure thing, either. Barnes was a terrible underachiever in his freshman season, there are a ton of questions about Sullinger's size/athleticism at the next level and Jones is kind of an unknown who didn't distinguish himself as a freshman.

Yes, they were projected to be top picks in this year's draft, but even with them, the top of this year's draft looked weak.

If the freshman aren't in next year's draft, I'm not sure how much value that Minny pick holds. Of course, you could probably use it to trade into the top five of this year's draft and take Biyombo. I'd be in favor of that.

johnrosz reply to Brian on May 11 at 15:53

Biyombo is still a huge unknown though, isn't he? You'd really be willing to move Iguodala for a kid that just started getting hype about a month ago? Seems like a pretty big gamble in itself to move Dre for someone that could very well be Saer Sene Redux.

The safest trade would be for a Rudy Gay type right? Known commodity for known commodity, and hope the young guys continue to improve. Nobody likes it, but it probably won't blow up in their faces if they pull the trigger on that type of deal.

I guess it all depends on what DiLeo and company think of Biyombo...would be a gutsy move.

I really like the Gay trade. I'd also be down for a Byiombo trade. Gotta take risks to win in the NBA.

That said, I don't think Iggy's trade value acquires either of them.

I'd prefer taking a gamble on a guy with that kind of athleticism/size/mindset to playing it safe on guys who are limited by those factors, if we're talking in broad terms.

As for the Gay trade, it's safe in that you probably aren't going to get much worse, but it's really not going to make you much better either, and you're locked into your salary structure for a long time.

johnrosz reply to Brian on May 11 at 17:12

Yeah, I'm not really on board with the Gay trade either. I just have reservations about Biyombo...Would he even be a lotto pick in a strong draft?

Don't know. I'm not saying I'm in favor of trading Iguodala and getting nothing back but Biyombo. What I'm saying is that I'd take him over a top five pick in 2012 if I had to make the decision today (I think that's where the discussion started).

In terms of a return for Iguodala, I need more than just a high pick in either this season or next season's draft. It's all a gamble at this point, and I'm really not in favor a "safe" bet that fucks the team's cap situation.

johnrosz reply to Brian on May 11 at 17:25

Fair enough. My worry is that they'll just take the first semi-reasonable offer to get rid of him. I don't think he's a guy who will cause problems in the locker room or won't try on the court, but if they feel he's a distraction I could very easily see them selling him for 50 cents on the dollar.


"elite glue guy" = serious crush = perspective, eventually

All the Kaman talk is hurting my soul. Let the idiot Clippers keep him. I'm against any realistic trade with them that doesn't include a sign amd trade for Jordan. If the Clips don't want to do that, then there will be a better offer elsewhere.

Well most of the trade ideas involving Kaman are really about the Wolves pick. Kaman is the afterthought in the scenario. Do you think Foye+Gomes > Kaman? I don't...

And that pick is valued based on the current landscape which could change rather drastically before the 2012 draft

That is true. But sometimes you need to gamble in the NBA and get lucky. Come October if the new CBA is similar to the current one and Minnesota does nothing to improve (e.g. Rubio refuses to play for them), the value of the pick will skyrocket. Unfortunately the opposite is equally possible. They might just trade all of their young players for veterans and reach 45 wins. That renders the pick almost useless...

Depending on luck is a foolish way to run a business. It's not sound, it's not wise, and luck isn't controllable or predictable.

Peole are trying to justify a crappy trade - that's great - I'm glad you want ot justify a crappy trade - doesn't mean you're going to change my mind by saying 'let's hope we get lucky'

Every GM will tell you that at the end of the day when making all those trades, you just need to get lucky... I hate depending on luck as much as you but most of the time that's just the way it is...

My guess for this offseason is that the teams that will "gamble" before the new CBA is reached and will guess it's outcome will be the ones that will win this whole mess.

You can 'mitigate' the impact of luck by being smart.

Trading for a 2012 draft pick - and valuating it at one value - without knowing who will be allowed in the 2012 is not smart...it's foolish.

There is no realistic trade that involves a sign and trade for Jordan though - it doesn't make sense from the clippers point of view to get Iguodala unless they keep Jordan in terms of winning versus saving money.

Well the Clippers have been known to make bad decisions on players in the past, maybe there's a small chance they think Kaman can return to a decent player. Either way though, another team will make a better offer than Kaman and a draft pick if the Sixers are patient.

Somewhat off-topic (but related, since we're talking about draft picks): ESPN the Magazine put together an interesting chart showing the average PER for each team's lottery picks (since the advent of the lottery in 1985) while they were with the team. The Sixers have had 11 lottery picks in that time, somewhere in the middle of the pack, and rank 5th in average PER (led by Iverson and Iguodala but probably supported by decent players like Hawkins and Weatherspoon).

The Spurs (where Duncan is one of only 3 lottery picks) and Lakers (Kobe is one of only 3 lottery picks) dominate the average PER chart. The Rockets (Yao one of four) and Heat (Wade one of seven) are the other teams ahead of the Sixers.

The Clippers and Warriors are tied for the most lottery picks, at 21. The Celtics, with 10 lottery picks (surprisingly only one fewer than the Sixers), have the lowest average PER at 12.9.

People forget how truly terrible the celtics were (and for how long) before the Garnet and Allen deals.

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis deaths, '86 & '93, played a part in that.

I'm sure they did, just saying that 'institutional' memory seems to be short, the celtics were awful when it was just pierce, wasnt' speculating why juat that until Ainge pulled off that draft night coup I believe most people thought he was about to get fired, and now he's a friggin genius (though again, I believe genius is defined when the 'luck' you had runs out - how 'genius' are the spurs now that it seems like they're done, how genius is kupchak when he doesn't have th gift of pau gasol and has to figure out how to make an older team younger and still stay competetive, Ainge will be tested soon I believe as well, there could be a serious 'power shift' in the NBA, sadly it won't involve the sixers)

Play of Spencer Hawes in playoffs worth mentioning

Play of Evan Turner in playoffs worth mentioning

Play of Andre Iguodala in playoffs - not worth mentioning

johnrosz reply to sfw on May 11 at 15:39

Seems like Stefanski is already hitching the wagon to Jrue as the centerpiece going forward. Can't wait till they give him a huge contract, he's good but doesn't score 20 a night, and they can't get past the first round with him as the face of the franchise.

emtmess reply to johnrosz on May 11 at 21:09

Really the face of the team has to score 20 or more points a game? For that team to be to go to the finals?

And looking for big(s).

Tom Moore on May 11 at 12:14

Sixers see Young as part of their future:


Calling it now, this off-season will do more damage than the 2008 off-season.

raro reply to Jason on May 11 at 13:14

hard to imagine

Not really

Over paying thad is worse than over paying Andre (if you felt he was over paid)

Giving Hawes any sort of long term deal is worse than signing Brand

Tom Moore reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 13:30

Young supposedly asked for $11 million per last summer. He won't get anything close to that. If demands remain too high once lockout ends, he could play for $3.99 million qualifying offer and become unrestricted in July 2012.

And the sixers lose him for squadoosh.

If the sixers can't agree on a deal with Young this off season they're betteer off negotiating a sign and trade then running the long term risk of losing him for nothing.

Of course that's not how it works in the NBA, teams panic and over pay guys cause they don't understand economics that well it seems. Set a price, if the player thinks he's worth more, let him get it somewhere else and make it a S&T

My concern isn't as much the Sixers ability to negotiate with him, it's their willingness to walk away from an offer sheet he signs elsewhere if it's for too much money.

Well that's the panic thing I was referring to. though a S&T usually allows for a better deal for the player because of raise percentages so I'd encourage Thad to work that out, but if he signs to an offer sheet more than the sixers value him at, they have to let him go, that's the risk, but it's a calculated and smart risk.

The problem is most NBA teams don't allow that risk - a I don't know why

Wes Johnson is the most recent example of a guy signing an offer sheet and his team allowing him to walk. Portland tried it the year before with Millsap, Utah matched that one. It is rare that a team will cut bait, though. There also aren't a lot of teams who will even pursue restricted free agents.

I get the purpose of the restricted free agent thing but it just doesn't seem to help teams really - it seems to screw them over more than it helps - maybe it'll get tweaked, but honestly, I don't see Thad ever being much better than he is now so I don't see him more than a solid bench player which is, what, the MLE at best?

I could see a team like the pacers trying to pay him. I mean who else are they going to go after with their cap space that they have a legit chance to sign?

Everyone (and their mother) with cap space will at least make a run at Dwight Howard once Orlando faces reality and decides to move him.

However, it'll be interesting to see if Orlando tries to get it done BEFORE the CBA Expires (June 30th) which makes it a bit harder to get done and a lot less players involved.

Can Marc Gasol play the four next to roy hibbert or does he have to be the 5?

I think they're both fives.

Oh I'm not really sure on that. I meant indiana could use their cap space to sign Thad and hope the Sixers don't match the offer.

There's a lot of 'interesting' franchises this off season. Portland, are they really that good or do they have to accept they're screwed because of Roy's contract? What does New Jersey try and do to make Deron Williams want to stay? Utah, maybe they gotta blow that whole thing up? Lakers as well, the clippers...will they keep jordan or are they still the clippers.

Depending on how the new CBA turns out (and an extension of the current one with the 57% guarantee eliminated is starting to sound like the 'compromise' everyone is looking for) and when it could be a real interesting off season there are a lot of teams in flux that could make major moves

Yeah the nightmare scenerio would be if Jersey loses out on Howard and then wants to trade for Iguodala, and Thorn demands a Lopez/Outlaw combo in return, thus dooming us for the next five years. If I say it now then hopefully it won't happen.

God hopefully Thorn isn't that stupid

Steve V reply to Brian on May 11 at 14:17

You mean Wes Matthews

Sure did.

Yeah, 2008 they committed about 200M to an uncertain future. They won't commit half of that this summer.

It wasn't how bad the decisions were in 2008. It was more how deep of a whole they dug. They sort of locked the Franchise on a set path for 5 years. I doubt any move they make this summer locks the Franchise in the same way... except maybe if the trade for Rudy Gay.

Trade for Rudy Gay, sign Thad for $55M/5 years, sign Hawes for $25M/5 years. That would definitely qualify as more damage imo.

Wait, Hawes only gets 25 million? For a guy who Collins said was a big part of the Sixers future, that qualifies as quite a bargain on the stefanski scale. Big Spence might be sulking for a while.

Nah, even with his terrible contract Gay should remain tradable for at least an expiring to some crazy GM who wants to make a title run. And 5M per to a terrible center is bno worse than what a lot of centers make. Is it worse than Diop? 5M does not kill anyone. Lou's deal is not killing the Sixers. Its the 30M combined that Brand and Iguodala make that locks them in.

And Iguodala is tradable due to his age. While Brand is the real crippling deal.

Some notable C salaries and years (last year and future)

J.O. 2yr/12M
Zaza: 3yr/15M
Diop 3yr 21M
Pryz 1yr/7.5M
Varajoa: 4yr/32M + 1yr 10M T.O.
Haywood: 5yr/40M + 10.5M T.O.
Anderson 4yr/17M
Maxiel 3yr/15M
Biedrins 4yr/36M
Brad Miller 3yr/15M
Foster 1yr 5.7M (and hurt)
Goodedn 5yr/32M
Darko 4yr/20M
Pekovic 3yr/13M
Turiaf 2yr/8.3M

I'll stop their, but that is about 2/3rds of the league.

I'm not sure any of those guys are a tremendous upgrade from hawes- although he is probably worse than most of the list. But it goes to show what 4-5M/yr typically gets you for a vet center.

So what I'm saying is that if they committed 5M per year to Hawes instead of say a Zaza type player, it is not exactly a franchise crushing more.

Yeah except that Chris Andersen is actually a good player. Check out his advanced stats from the past 3 seasons. I know he's in his early 30s but he just gets better every year, very underrated. I would take that contract in a second.

He is a man of strong convictions.

Tom Moore on May 11 at 15:04

Here's my Q&A with Sixers president Rod Thorn:


Tom Moore on May 11 at 15:51

Tractor Traylor dead at 34 of apparent heart attack. Was playing in Puerto Rico.

Never played a regular-season game for the Sixers. Brown didn't think he was in good enough shape during training camp and preseason and re-acquired Coleman prior to regular season. Seemed like a friendly, decent guy.

Interesting comment from MIchael Wilbon

Get rid of Andrew Bynum, who quite a few in the Lakers family have never really liked anyway.

The story I've heard on LA Sports radio was that Jim (Buss) thought of Andrew as 'his guy' and 'his project' which was why he was untouchable no matter what. Jim is the future front office /runner of the franchise (which I think is a mistake but Jerry's kind of a womanizer so no surprise he doesn't think his more capable daughter could run the team) so it's interesting if there's some laker dissent around that important of a player (to Jim)

I think his name is Jim - right now i'm not sure

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 16:42

Why does Wilbon want to get rid of him, because of his dumb hard foul the other day? Why would a team ever trade their best young player, who's a 7-footer, who's a really good 7-footer, unless there was some kind of huge gaping positional hole they could fill? Of course, they are terrible at point guard, but I assume they'll still run the triangle under Shaw, so they don't need a Chris Paul. I'm not sure the Lakers even have any real problems. They seem to have been the victims of, on their side, a huge cold streak from three, and on the other side of the ball, a huge hot streak from Dallas. Combined with some lackadaisacal defense and a bad series from Gasol. None of these are really personnel issues. Their only real personnel problem is that their best player is going to break down sooner or later.

Wilbon is just a blowhard. Bynum was the only Laker showing any heart in that series. He fouled Barrea hard because the other 4 guys on the floor kept letting him walk straight to the basket. Everyone keeps saying, "How dare he hit a little guy when the game is over!" Well by the same token, why is the little guy driving for a layup when the game is over? It's Barrea's choice to keep scoring when they don't need the points, so it's Bynum's equivalent choice to play physical when they don't need the defense.

Barrea made it worse in my opinion by going on ESPN today and saying "I was scared, I could have been hurt!" What a troll.

Maybe if Bynum had knocked Barea down in games 1, 2, or 3 there would have been a different reaction. He took the punk way out and gave a hard fall in the 4th quarter of the last game of a sweep to a player he knew was no physical threat to him. Bynum knew he would get ejected and knew he wouldnt have to see the Mavs again this season and escape a similar hard foul on him. It was a gutless foul.

Sean reply to stoned81 on May 11 at 17:17

There is a difference between physical defense and the forearm shiver Bynum delivered to Barea. It was a completely classless move born from the fact that his team was down 30 and about to be swept out of the playoffs. The sentence passed down by the NBA regarding it was completely fair. That being said, I don't see how it would be a good move for the Lakers to get rid of him excepting his inclusion in a deal for D. Howard.

I think a smart team would acquire Bynum, Oden and Yao, then pray they'd get 82 games/year out of the three combined.

Rich reply to Brian on May 11 at 17:24

I'm fairly sure Darryl Morey's life has been dedicated to try and do this.

I actually think he got off light - 10 games would be a harsh penalty - imagine if he had injured barea to the point where he couldn't play the next series - barea falls the wrogn way - the mavs are short a key play in the WCF - and that wasn't a basketball move, like you said.

I believe Bynum would only be moved in a Howard deal (with Odom probably) from the lakers point of view - but I think they need to shake up their roster majorly - not minorly

Was that foul worse than the foul on Nash that cost the Suns a trip to the finals?

Great point. Answer is no! And Nash was their star, whereas Barea is just annoying (at least to me).

I don't think the Lakers need a major change. They just need a PG (Derek Fisher and Steve Blake are dreadful). Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Artest, and Odom is definitely still a good enough 5 guys to win it all with even a mediocre PG. Of course, they'd trade Bynum and Odom for Howard if Orlando agrees, but I don't think Orlando will agree (at least not without the Lakers taking back Arenas and Turkoglu, which the Lakers won't).

Dallas is a sick team. I think there's a bit of an overreaction to the Lakers demise this year. Give them an adequate PG next year and they're competing for another title.

eddies' heady's reply to stoned81 on May 11 at 22:25

agree on the Lakers not needing major changes. too much of an overreaction. they're just lacking the PG spot as you said. and a little gusto from Pau would be nice.

He didn't foul barea - he gave him a hip check - after barea got punched in the face by artest in another game.

I love how people are making excuses for bynum, who got off easy in suspension and fine, he had intent to harm - that wasn't a basketball move - that was a punk move

And if people think it's the ONLY reason to trade Bynum, they don't pay enough attention to what Bynum says, how he acts, and how he doesn't seem to act in the best interest of his team all the time - the cheap punk shot was just the straw, bynum has had issues (aside from the fact that he can't stay healthy) with the lakers for years.

If what you think what bynum did was just a 'hard foul' - please - go watch MMA or bum fights or something - it wasn't a hard foul - it wasn't basketball - it was a punk move by a pussy

Bynum looked ready to rumble against anyone (not just Barea), so I don't think the p**sy label applies. I don't have a problem with a 5-game suspension. Bynum may have some issues, but they aren't huge issues, and he's only 23. He still has a sick career ahead of him in my opinion.

He's injury prone
He's out partying way too much
He gets surgery on his timetable, not hte teams, without mentoining it to the team
he sees his doctors and won't consult team doctors
and he thinks he's a lot more important than he actually is to the lakers.

And i call it a pussy move because it was a cheap shot against a weaker player - do that to erick dampier - and then i'll think something of him (maybe a little more but it's still a pussy move)

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 11 at 23:22

Oh, so now you're relying on TMZ. Is this partying affecting his play, like that's the reason he shoots 58% from the field instead of 65%

If the Lakers are smart they will capitalize on Bynum's strong showing in the playoffs this season and will trade him for a better/healthier guy. If they can get Howard great for them, but if not he should still be traded. Bynum is injury prone as hell and at this rate he probably doesn't have more than 150 productive NBA games in him, before injuries completely derail his career. I can't understand how people can pay so little attention to durability (including GMs as evidenced by mr. Morey who is a genius in any other aspect).

That being said if the Magic trade Howard for Bynum, they will officially become the worst managed franchise of the past decade... That would destroy them completely...

The trade oesn't work straight up - it would probably be odom and bynum for howard.

What if they don't trade him and he leaves for nothing like Shaq did - is that better?

How he leaves doesn't really make a difference at all. If he stays, they've completely wasted his prime with a serious of pitiful moves. No matter what they get back, if anything, they aren't going to salvage the situation.

So - do the heat close out tonight or give the celtics hope?

Greg Ostertag on May 11 at 21:35

Lebron definitely rehearsed that pose before the game.

He also rehearsed his post game interview with Craig Sager.


johnrosz on May 11 at 21:40

LeBron is the best player in the world, that was incredible the way he just took over down the stretch. I didn't like the way he left Cleveland, but he dominates every single facet of the game, just incredible.

If Atlanta gets a legit C, moves Horford to the 4 and plays Andre at the 3, where does Josh Smith go?


Right now, I think the Sixers' goal for next season has to be to lose to the Heat in the second round.

Ai-Love_Hate on May 11 at 23:01

well i just loved how the lakers were getting frustrated and the mavericks just kept hitting 3s.

i hope iguodala stays put.

but, AI9 would be so perfect for the mavs -- he could replace both butler and marion in one fell swoop and get dirk a ring.

They could really use iggy if they end up facing the heat, I can't wait to see Stojakovic guard lebron!

Ai-Love_Hate reply to Jason on May 11 at 23:23

who starts for the mavs. And what happened to beaubois and butler?

Does anyone else get ill when they hear Thorn/Stefanski talk about this team being close becasue they lost 4-1 to Miami in close games?

In is a huge fallacy to make that leap in terms of judging this roster vs the rest of the NBA. It shows they try hard and refuse to be embarrassed (except 1 game.) That does not mean that they are anywhere remotely close to the Heat. Had the Sixers improved (or had a center with a pulse) who's to say that the Heat stars don't simply up their game>?

I agree they aren't all that close, but at the same time I think it's kind of insulting to insinuate Miami's stars weren't really trying. They were four hard-fought games, and the Heat were pushed, probably more than they were pushed by Boston. There's a ton of work left to be done, and that fact shouldn't be lost on anyone (Thorn especially), but that doesn't mean they didn't play a good series and for some reason their effort shouldn't count because Miami would've turned it on if the series went six or seven games.

That's not what I am insinuating at all.

Players/teams always play up or down to their competition to a degree. And great challenges bring out greatness. I believe had the Sixers upped their game then Miami would have been able to answer the bell and up their game.

Very much like how the Sixers jumped out to a 2-1 lead against the Pistons and Magic and then those teams responded by raising their games to a level the Sixers could not match.

These Sixers played well against Miami, but the Heat jumped out to a 3-0 lead and were able to escape most of the close games without Lebron or Wade ever really taking over. That does not take away from the Sixers defensive effort.

Also. the Sixers should not forget they were a somewhat lucky shot away from being swept and losing 9 of 10 overall. They showed hart, but were lucky Lou hit that shot.

I don't buy that bit about the Magic. That series came down to a Hedo step-back three at the buzzer in game four, imo. Much like this OKC/MEM game is probably going to come down to a Nick Collison stolen offensive rebound in overtime of game 4. If OKC blows Memphis out in game 6, will everyone start talking about how Memphis was just lucky and OKC finally put their foot down?

Anyway, they're clearly far away from competing with Miami, but that doesn't take away from the performance they had in this series. If anything, they should be encouraged that they have two defenders who can limit Wade and LeBron when games get close. That's more than most teams can boast and it should also tell them that the plan should be to fix the rest of the team, and keep that defensive advantage in place, if at all possible. Though that's clearly not the direction they're headed in.

Hey, I was really buoyed by game 5. I think they played one of their best games of the season (in a losing effort to a team that hit too many 3's.) But I really don't think you can make too much of the close game thing. Isn't that akin to talking about Moral Victories?

I'll write my other response in the new thread.

deepsixersuede reply to Brian on May 12 at 7:57

Your last paragraph should be stapled on Thorn's door to his office, so he sees it everytime he thinks of moving Iggy.

Let Turner replace Lou, draft Singleton and acquire a role playing defensive center, not necessarily a star. If Lou gets us a front court attitude guy[Maxiel?] that will give a hard foul and protect the lane add that too.

It's time for a new rivalry, Sixer fan's, and Miami and Chicago are the target's.

Tray reply to Brian on May 12 at 0:59

I think we showed some promise in that series, but that winning 1 of 5 games is still just winning 1 out of 5 games. Just to get to the point where we could have pushed them to 7 games, we'd need massive improvement. And then to actually win the series, we'd need to improve a lot on top of that.

I do hope tonight's events quiet DF carping about LeBron. He's really done all that can be expected of him, including averaging a little under 10 boards a game in the playoffs, which is really crucial considering that none of their centers rebound. Outside of drafting LeBron and Varejao, it's hard to think of a good personnel move Cleveland made in the years he played for them, and I can't at all begrudge him leaving them. Especially now that we know Dan Gilbert, at least when he's wearing his NBA owner hat, is an unprofessional lunatic.

I only caught the highlights of LeBron's douchery, but I heard he was pretty stellar in a non-pressure close-out game against the aged Celtics. Kudos to him.

Tray reply to Brian on May 12 at 2:28

Um, the whole reason that it was a non-pressure game, the whole reason they were up 3-1, was that he dominated them all series long.

rswknight reply to Tray on May 12 at 1:18

Great player but still not a fan. I don't really enjoy his AAU style of play, especially when punctuated by all the self-aggrandizing gestures. Stopped being a fan years ago when I heard him tell his mother to "sit her ass down" at the game. He left CLE in a piss-poor manner that was entirely in character for him. Could he have won eventually in CLE? Maybe. But we'll never know now.

Boston was in trouble as soon as they made the Perkins trade. It made the season essentially "Shaq or Bust", and they busted. Their advantages against Miami were always about Chemistry and Size and that trade undermined both of those things.

Does a sign and trade with Memphis to send Iggy for Gasol plus money/pick/whatever sound out of reach? I haven't looked at numbers, but he's the big we could obviously use. Yes the stock is high on him now because of the playoff run, but if MEM was interested and we could get Iggy out is it feasible?

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