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What's Your Floor?

I would rather try to gain players to support Iggy instead of trading him away. Hes a great defensive player with great offensive potential. I say we gain more support and keep him aboard.

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Anonymous on May 25 at 2:10
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Trade Iggy, Lou, Speights and 1 or 2 first round picks for Dwight Howard and Hedo's expiring contract.

For the Sixers, they get the big man they always needed since god knows when to go along with Jrue and Evan in the backcourt. Hedo could start at the 3 (or Thad, maybe?). Meeks coming off the bench helps a lot.

For Orlando, they get atleast something for Howard, replenish an aging team with some young talented players and would unload Hedo's massive contract. Howard can't be replaced but getting a raw young big in Speights and a couple picks definitely helps. Iggy improves this defense immensely while Lou gives Orlando a demision to offense that they don't have.

Although the bench of the Sixers would be dimished, I think this helps both teams (Orlando to an extent).

Yeah, this really wouldn't be your floor for an Iguodala trade, would it?

I've been torn on this Iguodala stuff for a while now, but here's my take at it:

1) What would other teams give up? - I think it depends on the team. There are three types that might want him on their team IMO:
- contenders that can offer cap relief + marginal young talent + multiple low 1st round draft picks
- bad teams that want to finally get out of the basement and get into playoff contention. They can offer a variety of picks, young players and possibly cap relief
- mediocre teams that might be willing to shake things up and swap a very good player they have for Iguodala straight up

Let me be clear i want no part of the first scenario unless it's a complicated three team trade that very rarely works.I wouldn't completely dismiss the third scenario but i would definitely try to avoid it, because i think it will most likely result in it being a lateral move. It's the second scenario that i am interested in, because i think long term it offers the best chance of the team becoming a contender.

2) What's the minimum i would accept in return? The trade needs to be centered around a player that is either already better than Iguodala or has a chance to become better than Iguodala. And we can't focus on centers only, that's shortsighted IMO, because we are only firmly set at PG for the future. The only exception where i would trade Iguodala for a player of similar talent is if that player was a relatively young center. But i'm not sure that kind of player actually exists and i don't think that's possible.

Example deal: #2 + W.Johnson + Flynn for Iguodala or something like that...

There are only 3-4 players in this draft that i think can become as good as Iguodala or better so keep that in mind when acquiring 2011 picks (Irving, Kanter, Valanciunas and Biyombo)...

OK, I'll take a stab at it. I'm not sure what the total package looks like, so I'll just talk in broad terms of what I value.

2011 Draft Picks:

There's really only two categories here. The #2 pick and then any pick that gets you Bismack Biyombo.

The number two pick gets you Derrick Williams, and I absolutely love him for this team. An athletic big with the size to guard the four, the strength to overpower threes and a legit outside shot. He gets to the line a ton, rebounds enough and finishes with authority. I'm not sure if he'll be that number one scoring option, but I do think he has a chance to score an efficient 20 and cause terrible mismatch problems on the offensive end for most teams. Getting a legit three-point shooter on the floor who can do other things at the three or four opens a ton of doors and he fits the mold of the type of guys I want the team to collect. If Minnesota offered the #2 pick and cap relief for Iguodala, I'd seriously consider it. With Williams, I think you've got the upside of an All Star player who can make your team a dynamic threat in the half court without giving up anything in the transition game or on the defensive end. That's a rare combination. he's also 20-years-old. You'd have Jrue (21), Williams (20) and Turner (23) as your core to build around.

Draft picks #3 through #10 carry the same value for me. I wouldn't trade for any of those picks prior to draft night and the return would need to be more than just the pick and cap space for any of them. The top of this draft is two guys for me: Williams and Biyombo. If neither of them is on the board, I don't want to move up (the possible exception is Kawhi Leonard, who really intrigues me, but I wouldn't give up Iguodala to move up for him). If I'm moving up for Biyombo, then I need another legit asset in return. Not just cap space. A future first rounder or a young player who fits the mold and fills a need would need to be included, or another contract would have to be taken off the Sixers hands (probably Brand).

Players:

This list is really short. An impact big who is young. Think Serge Ibaka. Or a budding superstar who hasn't quite reached that level, like Steph Curry. Build a package around either of those guys and I'd do it.

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Stuart reply to Brian on May 25 at 10:36
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Brian, why do you say that "we won't give up anything defensively" for trading Iguodala for Williams? Don't Derek and other scouts believe he won't be able to defend the 3 particularly well, and certainly not at Iguodala's level?

And also, do you think there's a way to get a pick 3-10 without giving up Iguodala? Something like #16, next year's 1st rounder, a 2nd and speights? I would just love to see our transition game with Iguodala, Thad and Biyombo fast break....

Iguodala to Toronto for Ed Davis, Jose Calderon, and the #5 pick which I would use on Valanciunas.

I would rather do this trade than a trade for #1 pick

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Marty reply to Jason on May 25 at 13:53
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Funny, I never really considered Toronto as a trade partner, but there actually might be something there. They have a decent exception from the Bosh deal plus that #5 - I would do that Davis/Calderon/#5 deal in a millisecond. Or maybe it's like Amir Johnson, Kleiza, and Bayless and #5 for Iggy, Lou, and Speights. Straight up I'd take Johnson over Speights and Bayless over Lou. Maybe that's not the exact deal, but could see something there.

I think they're really high on Ed Davis, but I'd consider that.

Iguodala doesn't need to be traded. IMO jrue Iguodala and Turner are off limits. We have a top wing defender that can guard the top wings in the NBA. I think we should add to that not subtract him he's only 27 my vote is to keep Iguodala I wish more fans appreciated the game that he has and what he brings to the team.

Just my opinion but I don't think a guy can be off-limits when he's hinting that he doesn't want to be around.

I agree that Holiday and Turner should be off-limits unless our breath gets taken away. And Brand is basically off-limits in my opinion because he's our only PF, he's the veteran leader, he only has 2 years left on his deal, and he can only be traded for pennies on the dollar.

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deepsixersuede on May 25 at 6:48
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Watching what Miami is doing now makes me wonder if we are anywhere close to them if we played them now. I feel we need to trade Iggy and add a combination of young pieces, draft picks and caproom. I agree with Brian that a trade for a pick in this draft lower than #4 shouldn't happen till draft night.

I think Irving, Kanter and Williams are the only 3 guys capable of becoming 20 ppg scorers out of this draft. And after watching how installing Meeks improved this group of players, a shooter must be in the mix for 30 minutes a night. Can this become Jrue or Turners' team if Iggy remains? And does management want to cut ties and put a new face on the franchise?

They did it in the front office and coaching department and even though none of it is Iggy's fault it is time to turn the page, in my opinion, and build for 3 years from now and the new cba landscape.

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Charlie H reply to deepsixersuede on May 26 at 10:05
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Don't we have enough young pieces?

The baseline has to be a combination of 2 out of these 3 assets: top ten pick (for Biyombo), cap flexibility, and a young rotation player w/ potential. I'd also like to hang on to #16 as part of any deal. The one exception I would make is for Indy's Paul George. I think this kid is going to be special and I think Indy does too (which is probably) why they're willing to move Granger) - but maybe their thinking changes and they like the idea of adding Iggy to the team w/ Granger.

I agree with Marty's statement.

"The baseline has to be a combination of 2 out of these 3 assets: top ten pick (for Biyombo), cap flexibility, and a young rotation player w/ potential."

I'd look to Minesota or Sacramento(as has been stated by multiple commenters on the Blog).

1st choice:
The #2 pick plus filler for Iggy and draft Williams for all the reasons Brian has expressed.

or

The #7 pick plus Caspi & Thompson for Iggy & the 16 pick with the desire to draft either a big(this would be the preference - the usual suspects) or Iggy's small forward replacement(Vesely, Leonard or MARC.Morris).

In addition to one of those trades, I'd try like hell to get an extra pick in the draft for Speights. That selection would depend on whether we picked big or small with our early selection.

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sfw reply to sfw on May 25 at 8:38
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My filler from Minny would be 2 players on the last year of their contract(Flynn & Webster). 2 young players with some upside who you may want to re-sign after the season.

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ryano reply to sfw on May 25 at 9:54
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I think your second option is giving up too much. Iggy for Caspi, Thompson, and #7 straight up. We keep #16 in that case.

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sfw reply to ryano on May 25 at 10:25
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agreed!

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ShoYaLuv on May 25 at 8:29
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I want a young big, a young wing(shooter or defender), a back up pg, someone formerly highly touted that has a chance to pull a Z-Bo and a pick.

I propose Iggy and Lou for #2, Pekovic, Wayne Ellington, Ridnour, and Beasley.

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eddies' heady's on May 25 at 9:59
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Iguodala and Speights for Omer Asik, Taj Gibson, and CJ Watson and 2nd round pick.

Is Omer the top person in this deal for you?

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eddies' heady's reply to emtmess on May 25 at 10:13
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yeah, guess he'd have to be.

Would you take Brewer instead of Gibson or Watson?

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eddies' heady's reply to emtmess on May 25 at 10:54
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Instead of Watson, yes, but not instead of Gibson. Was actually going to initially write "Watson / Brewer" - either or.

I kinda like that trade with Gibson and Brewer. maybe also offer Lou or someone else an pick 16 to move up and get Kawhi or to make sure we get Singleton. We might not win as many games as we did this year then again we might even win more if a couple of guys continue to get better. But 2-3 years down the road we would be in good position. I would still like to get Omer without giving up Andre.

That is just a ridiculous trade whichever way you look at it. It's one of those rare terrible for both teams kind of trade.

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emtmess reply to Xsago on May 25 at 11:53
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I do not think it is that bad or makes us worse. Brewer is a good deffender he is not Andre but most are not. Hence why I would like to keep him on the team. Omer helps us on D to while also allowing us to start Thad at the 4 and giving Elton more rest during the season. With Singleton or Kawhi starting at the 3 you would work out. As far as how it works for Chicago well I think if they have Rose, Andre, and Deng you could do a lot worse than that. I don't know if we could also get Gibson also but if they gave us one of ther top picks this or next year it could work.

IMO nothing short of one of picks 2,3,4 (or like brian said after the draft just go after either Williams, Bismack, or Kanter) and we would have to keep pick #16. The only players I feel that can not be included are Brand, Jrue, Evan, Jodie, Thad. I have to say the best way to beat teams like Miami and Chicago in the playoffs is to keep Andre.

I guess I was fine with the clippers variety that was spouted off a few times last week. Depending on the new CBA it is a good or great pick, but only if a player is included along with kamans expiring deal (because that's all he is, an expiring deal)

Not sure what my 'bottom' is on Iguodala - but I'm sure it's higher than most

(PS - the bulls would never make that trade - that kills their big man strength and duplicates Luol Deng - why do the bulls need another luol deng?)

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Dean Smith reply to GoSixers on May 25 at 19:28
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Luol Deng can shoot

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minilebron on May 25 at 12:26
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I think anyone saying we should keep minilebron instead of trading him now doesn't understand the timeline for this team. There is no chance we can contend with the heat in the east these next 3-5 years, we just do not have the talent to do so. Once their window is up, all our young players (Jrue, Thad, ET) will be hitting their primes and that is truly when we will be able to contend against an older heat team and Chicago. At that point minilebron will be too old since he relies so heavily on his athleticism. I think that we must trade minilebron to get someone who has the potential to be better than him since even if we kept him, we would probably not be good enough to beat an older heat/primed bulls team a few years from now. We need good young talent, and I think getting someone like derrick williams who fits with our core would be the best option. Since our window is still a few years away, we still have time to get a center

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emtmess reply to minilebron on May 25 at 13:00
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I agree we are a couple of years away from where we want to be. We were able to open up double digit leads on Miami a couple of times. I think we need to look at what worked for us and fix what caused us to lose those leads. What do you think cost us the leads?

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minilebron reply to emtmess on May 25 at 13:39
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I feel Miami took us a little lightly and were not fully focused for all 48 minutes. I think this is why we were able to take these leads and then when Miami was truly focused and trying, they were able to comeback based on their superior talent and experience. In terms of actual play, what cost us the leads was the inability to alter/challenge their shots at the rim, our inability to rebound, and the lack of a scorer we could count on to get some buckets to hold off their comebacks.

It had nothing to with focus. The Sixers were simply able to utilize the Heat's lack of depth for brief periods in every game. Whenever someone of their Chalmers/Wade/Lebron/Bosh/Anthony was on the bench the Sixers were almost dominating the Heat. The problem was they were unable to hold them down when they were all on the court...

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minilebron reply to Xsago on May 25 at 14:32
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I certainly agree that our depth was a big advantage over the scrubs on miami they faced, and that did lead to some leads, but you have to acknowledge that Miami is playing at a higher level as the competition gets better. Miami knew it didn't need all of its bullets to beat the sixers and also knew it would be facing some very difficult opponents in the coming rounds. I honestly think they held back some against us, as witnessed by the effort of wade and lebron these past couple games against Chicago. I did not see that sort of flying around and effort against the sixers because frankly they didn't need to. Maybe it's not so much focus Miami lacked against us (though we got some easy baskets that they would not be giving up the way they are playing now), but moreso intensity playing against a lesser opponent. When they played hard, they were clearly the better team.

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emtmess reply to minilebron on May 25 at 15:08
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I see your point that is what makes it so hard to figure out where we need to do some times. I just feel that when you look at Chicago's play the big thing they have that we did not was the rebounding and interior depth. I think Rose better than anyone on our team. But when he is comitting turnovers he or takes really bad early shots that is when they play right into Miami's strength.

Hard to say without knowing the true market for him. I'd love to get Derrick Williams, Kanter, or Biyombo for Iggy. I'd also be OK with the European 7-footers that everyone seems to be raging about (though I know zero about them myself). I'd be OK with Bargnani. If Iggy demands a trade (which I suppose he hasn't, thus far he has just implied he wouldn't mind it), then I'd just trade him for whatever we can get.

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johnrosz on May 25 at 15:39
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I'll take #2, a prospect, and filler.

I'll take #4, a rotation guy, and cap room

I'll take #3 and Okur

These seem like reasonably fair deals to me, taking Williams at 2 and then grabbing a project big guy would get me pretty excited.

Would you take the #2 and filler for Iggy, cutting out the prospect? I don't think the T-Wolves would do either deal, but I can't see at all them throwing in another prospect beyond the #2 pick.

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johnrosz reply to stoned81 on May 25 at 15:48
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Sure, I'm actually in the same line of thinking as yourself. It's pretty clear to me that Dre doesn't want to be here, some people are having a hard time accepting that. I'm not going to force a psuedo star to stay here against his will any longer.

Yeah ditto. I'd actually trade Iggy straight up for the 2, 3, or 4, without blinking. If they need to throw in garbage expirings for the salaries, so be it. I just want a top pick. Unfortunately I really don't think Iggy's trade value reaches that potential due to his contract and recent injuries.

Congratulations Mike Brown - after getting screwed over by Lebron James, your consolation prize is that you have to follow Phil Jackson and take over an old laker team that needs its biggest name to adjust his role.

Good luck with that

Why would they hire him? He stinks!

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johnrosz reply to stoned81 on May 25 at 15:46
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he's a good defensive coach, he just got a raw deal in Cleveland, and I doubt he'll last in LA.

I wonder how upset Brian Shaw is, he was long thought to be the heir to the throne in LA from what I remember.

I always hated Brown because of the way he would throw a toddler-style tantrum on the court every time LeBron got hit with a hard foul. It was a truly pathetic sight.

Yeah I hear you on Shaw, but that was always media-driven. It certainly appears that the Lakers never felt that way, I doubt they ever told him he was next in line. If he assumed it, that's his mistake.

Was Jeff Van Gundy a pathetic sight with all his histrionics?

Van Gundy didn't annoy me nearly as much. Van Gundy just seemed to want to get in a fight. Whereas Brown was just whining and crying like a four year old ("wah wah he's trying to hurt him") all the time.

Shaw has no head coaching experience, but Kobe likes him, the fact that they didn't hire Shaw might mean something about what they think the future of the franchise is, or maybe he was too 'immersed' in the triangle and they want to get away with it.

Giving a guy with no head coaching job his first gig with the lakers? That's almost as insane as mark jackson thinking he should be able to be a head coach without ever being an assistant - ANYWHERE

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Tray reply to GoSixers on May 25 at 15:55
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Get away from it, you mean. I would think the triangle has served the Lakers very well. They have three very good players, but under a bad offensive coach, I think they could fall out of the top 5 in offensive efficiency. I don't know if Kobe will respect Brown much either. I would've gone with Adelman.

Will Iguodala ever have more value than he has right now?

He "lead" a team that showed dramatic improvement, is less than a year removed from a Team USA spot and started to miss games with injuries. He's still a top tier defender at a position where he can match up with the league's elite. I don't see much about his game that will age gracefully once his athleticism begins to decline.

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johnrosz reply to CM on May 25 at 17:20
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the knee and ankle issues are a concern for me. He's not nearly the player he's capable of being when he's even slightly ground bound either. Everything about his game suffered in the MIA series due to the nagging injuries, even the playmaking and defense.

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Cin reply to johnrosz on May 25 at 17:55
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Let's not combine two seperate things here. There's an accepted notion that when an athlete depends on athleticism as the focal aspect of their game, as their athleticism deteriorates, so do their ability. Ability, however, is adaptable with age. What will define AI9's career will be his ability to adapt his playmaking and defense as he ages, while also improving in areas like shooting to compensate for his physical losses.

As far as the knee/ankle are concerned, yes he was a shade of himself in his return. If he tries to play his normal physically oriented style of game, it's just not going to happen at less than 100%. If he comes back and tries to spot up as a shooter he's going to be just as ineffective. Give him a few years without his physical tools and then you should be concerned if he's still ineffective (Tracy McGrady?).

This should also serve to answer yesterdays post: Skill before athleticism. Swingmans body/pointguards handle and vision/offensive craftiness to boot? Turner's success in becoming an elite player is essential for the 76ers success. Not because of his draft status but because a team built around him is a team that plays winning basketball. Like Kenny Smith (of all people) said before the draft, Turner's size/skillset is very rare and has been very successful in the league.

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eddies' heady's reply to Cin on May 25 at 23:25
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This is thrown around rather regularly and loosely around here - Turner's skillset. What exactly does he possess that is so well-rounded and above average? Yeah his handle is nice but what else does he really do so well to be considered "rare" company for his size?

It's not his shot, he hasn't shown any prowess for playmaking and setting others up, his vision when controlling the ball on the break is lacking (he usually takes it himself). So what's left? Getting to a spot in the paint by way of his dribble only to get dwarfed?

It sort of reminds me of how much it was mentioned last year that Jrue was this elite defender, when he really had done nothing to deserve the label but show flashes here and there in an occasional game or two. But as we all saw, he was abused and taken advantage of regularly this year with more responsibility and minutes.

Curious as to what this "skillset" consists of that makes it rare? Or what are others seeing in this "skillset" that lends itself to becoming "elite"?

He's got two elite skills for a SG or SF: handle and rebounding.

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Tray reply to Brian on May 26 at 0:12
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To be fair to Eddie's, Josh McRoberts has some elite skills for a power forward. Elite handle, elite athleticism. Most players do something really well, especially if it's just something abstract that doesn't really translate into production. Like Turner has a great handle, but I don't see anyone saying, "Turner's great at using his handle to score."

Yeah, McRoberts has neither of those attributes. Solid point, though.

He asked what skills Turner had, he has those. What can he do with them? Don't know.

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Cin reply to Tray on May 26 at 0:32
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Mock if you will, but it doesn't do you any favors. Turner has the ability, using his ballhandling, to go to where he wants to even if it's not where he should go. If he's matched up against most one's or two's it's a size mismatch, and he should be able to lose most three's off the dribble to due his advanced dribbling.

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Charlie H reply to Tray on May 26 at 10:11
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Josh McRoberts has no elite skills.

If you refuse to consider his collegiate career in addition to his rookie year than you're not going to appreciate his potential.

The hardest part about watching Turner was seeing him on his way to a comfortable spot and then pulling up for a jumper rather than drving for the finish. This comes from what you mentioned that was very critical to his lack if success this year: playing small inside the paint. I don't know about you but watching him get blocked over and over (D-Rose post-up that he got denied on? Ugh) was like seeing a rookie quarterback getting mowed over in the pocket 60 times in their first year - they just start checking down at the first sign of pressure. He just seemed a little shellshocked. This is the most critical part of his game that he really needs to turn around and to me it's just a matter of time before he figures out what works and what doesn't. He's creative so he'll be fine here.

His vision is outstanding, but he is really just a scorer in this regard. The main thing is at Ohio State they won with the ball in his hands at all times. Naturally, you're going to tally some dimes in this position but he's really more ball dominant than he's given credit for. This is why it was so important to learn the two spot this year. If he can become proficient running off screens, spotting up, and slashing inside off the ball, he's going to be a threat in nearly every phase of play. That's really his potential right there.

Wish the Thunder won the west, I really don't see how the Mavs can beat the Heat. Who does Jason Kidd/Jason Terry/Barea/Dirk guard?

The Thunder reminded me an awful lot of the Sixers in how they lost this series.

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eddies' heady's reply to Jason on May 26 at 0:09
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Didn't you ask yourself the same thing when you found out they would be facing OKC? Dallas' team defense is pretty good.

You mean the same Mavs that dismantled the Heat twice in the regular season? The same Mavs that made the HEat players cry, provoked that 19/20 wins stretch and won the only game the Heat lost in that stretch... The Mavs have been so good for so long... They deserve a championship and i think they will get it.

This is an incredible video from the New York Times on the history of the crossover; Iverson talks to them about how he learned his, crossing over Michael, Wade says he patterned his crossover after Iverson, etc. I was a little surprised to see Iverson in such good spirits.

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/05/25/sports/basketball/100000000831937/the-crossover-on-display.html?ref=sports

Cool video.

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HendrikDB reply to Brian on May 26 at 2:41
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Guess I'm gonna start looking forward to his son :D.


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