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Pressing Questions - May 27, 2011

To be honest for me this draft is simple. Either get into the top 10 and draft one of the big international players (who are all underrated because some of the past few euros failed) or trade out of the draft entirely. There are no difference makers that are going to be available at #16.

If it has to be #16 i'd say Motiejunas and Harris are the only ones that even have a chance to become something (Motiejunas is the definition of a star/bust prospect). All the others are 11th man material at best... If one of the top 10 falls you take him of course. Players worth taking that have an outside chance of falling for various reasons are Biyombo, Valanciunas, Thompson. All the others either have zero shot at falling or aren't worth taking anyway.

For so long we've been concentrating on major roster shake ups for the Sixers. That's not how the NBA usually works though.

So maybe we can use these pressing questions to think outside the box and figure out what kind of moves do we want the team to make without touching the core of this years team at all. That means Jrue, Turner, Iguodala, Brand are untouchable as well as Thad and Hawes because for the time being they are restricted free agents and therefore untradeable before we learn what the new CBA will be like. That leaves Lou, Speights, Meeks, Nocioni, Brackins and as many picks as you like (and are allowed) as trade material.

What kind of moves could be possible with these assets and what kind of moves benefit the team short and long term? What's the most likely direction the team will take?

My take is that probably the likeliest way to go is try to trade for some of the not so successful young big men and prey for a miracle (similar to what we tried with Hawes last year, and failed). You won't trade a lot to get them so it shouldn't be much of a problem. Possible targets: J. Thompson, R. Lopez, A. Johnson, J. Hill, R. Patterson...

I also believe the front office will probably acquire a veteran center to man the middle for the next season or two.

deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on May 27 at 7:32

I still think Spieghts can get R.Lopez even if a little sweetner [2nd rounder or Brackins] needs to be added. Spieghts can play next to and behind Gortat.

And Singleton would give Iggy some relief in guarding the Lebron's of the world and may be a perfect compliment to our offensive 2nd teamers. The fact he measured 6'9" and can block shots would allow Collins to play him at the 5 next to Thad and help run teams off the floor for 10 minute spurts.

mchezo reply to Xsago on May 28 at 20:23

so lou is not a core member of this years team? thats idiotic.

Seems like the plan is to go big. I really haven't seen most of these guys but I'd like to see Elton's eventual replacement(Morris,Thompson,Thompkins?) OR a big/big(Montiejunis, Vusevic, Tyler,?). Don't see Faried due to his offensive limitations. If the plan is to deal Iggy, I wonder if the coach is planning to start Thad at small forward. If so, Singleton makes sense.

IMO the Sixers should acquire a big right now (before the current CBA runs out) like R. Lopez to take some of the pressure off the draft/whether someone falls or not! Also, there's NO WAY Hawes should be re-signed as $4 million is way too high for a back-up given his limited game!

Well it's starting to look like Tristan Thompson may fall to us out of circumstance if that happens it should take us all of 10 seconds to hand the card in. I'm starting to really like Jeremy Tyler too, the kid has top 5 talent and if he didn't get horrible advisement to go overseas he would be top 5. Kids that big shouldn't be able to be as smooth and athletic as he is. If you take him and he hits you have yourself a stud big man who can score around the basket, score way above the rim, and also defend the rim and rebound. His hands may be his greatest attribute.

Charlie H on May 27 at 11:49

No matter what you say Brian, they're gonna talk trade.

I say Montiejunas, but I think he'll get picked in the lottery. He could be a really good offensive player. Doubts about attitude and desire sometimes turn out to be entirely unfounded.

If he's unavailable, best available. Who that is, I don't know, but if he's a sleeper guard, I would take him. We could use another PG.

76ersdrafttopic on May 27 at 12:29

Motiejunas if he drops this far. Too much potential and value to pass up. Put him at PF and wish for him to play defense and rebound.

I'm starting to like Jeremy Tyler for all the same reasons as everyone else. He definitely has the talent to be a great big man, and Collins/Brand will instill some discipline in him and teach him in basketball

Was he eligible academically for college? If not I would stay away.

Well, since he left after his junior year of high school to play in Europe and hasn't graduated high school, I don't believe he's eligible for college.

What's the backstory there? Why did he leave after his junior year?

johnrosz reply to Brian on May 27 at 16:23

to make 180 grand playing overseas. I think the maturity stuff is overblown. Hardly easy to say a 17 year old that goes to a foreign land on his own to make a professional living is a sign of immaturity.

He said some stupid things when he was 17 or 18, I'm sure we all did. Maybe a bit of a space cadet, but doesn't seem like a bad kid. No riskier a pick at 16 than Speights in my estimation.

I'd have to see/talk to people before taking him as a first round. He's a great second round pick, just from a sheer risk/reward standpoint. He's clearly a first round talent.

johnrosz reply to Derek Bodner on May 27 at 17:23

I thought I read somewhere that he interviewed reasonably well?

Yeah, he was good in Chicago. I'm more talking about the lengthy team interviews.

13.4% body fat + character issues scare the hell out of me... I want nothing to do with him.

Cin reply to Xsago on May 27 at 14:21

I think the character concerns are a non issue. If you watch his DX interview he strongly emphasizes his maturation as a professional, comparing his situation to Brandon Jennings' in that he went overseas alone, despite his parents support, as opposed to Jennings bringing his mother. Things like that definitely spur personal growth even after his falling out with Israel(?). I wouldn't touch him purely based on his lack of conpetitive experience. He'll need a few years of seasoninf and for that I'd take my chances on Bebe.

Scottie: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play the game. I may go so far as saying LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game."

Tray reply to Harold on May 27 at 15:59

Perhaps the greatest talent, but this early in his thus-far ringless career that's taking it way too far. Perhaps if he wins 3 or 4 championships with Wade you could make an argument. In his favor, you can already make a favorable comparison between the pre-Wade part of his career and the pre-Pippen/pre-Jackson part of Jordan's. LeBron really did a great deal without any help whatsoever.

jkay reply to Harold on May 27 at 18:39

that's called getting way too excited over a playoff series.
Jordan did something that is waaaayyyy underrated; WIN. Michael won, a lot, against very veryy good teams too.
Judgment call, but Lebron is light-years behind.
I'm surprised anyone is taking this seriously.

Charlie H reply to Harold on May 27 at 19:41

Sorry Scottie, there's no way on earth MJ was a better scorer than Wilt. How do you make that argument? You can also make a case that Kareem was better.

116 50-point games.

Tray reply to Charlie H on May 27 at 20:28

Wilt played in an era where the average team scored 119 a game and got up 108 shots a game. What he did the year he scored 50 a game probably rates out, today, to something more like 38 per. And I believe Jordan had a longer peak, and was a much better scorer in the playoffs than Wilt was.

rswknight reply to Tray on May 27 at 21:33

Two different positions, also, when saying things like "longer peak" bear in mind that Wilt as frequently asked to change his role.

LeBron is not even in my top 10, especially since this era has the ridiculous handcheck rule that truthfully handcuffs the defense against any super-quick scorer.

The hand check rule helped AI. Not sure how hand checking would slow down Lebron any more than it would Barkley. Lebron is so much stronger than opposing SF's, and just as quick. Do you really think hand checking would do much against him?

As for Wilt, compare his points and boards to his contemporarlies. He was much farther ahead than MJ was.

What do you guys think of these two trade options:

1. Iguodala +#16 to the Jazz for Jefersson + #3 pick (Jefersson has his flaws but is a huge improvement over Hawes)

2. Iguodala + Nocioni to the Hornets for Okafor+Ariza+2012 1 rnd pick

I think both trades make the team better. I personally like the first one, but no so much the second one, unless that pick ends up being a top 7-8 pick which i seriously doubt.

sfw reply to Xsago on May 28 at 7:45

I would definitely do #1. Jeffersons contract expires with Eltons and we'd get another big if not Williams in the draft. Don't see Utah making this deal. Are they extremely unhappy with Jefferson?

Tray reply to sfw on May 28 at 15:03

What if you come away with a mediocre rotation player at #12? Then all you've gotten is Jefferson, who really isn't too good. Lousy on defense, lousy passer, not that efficient.

sfw reply to Tray on May 28 at 18:11

He's saying Jefferson & the 3rd pick in the draft. Not the 12th.

Tray reply to sfw on May 28 at 18:18

Oh right, Cin below said #12.

deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on May 28 at 8:52

I think Favors has a chance to make Jefferson better as a weakside defender and energy guy next to him. Milsap may become available though, as Elton's replacement.

Cin reply to Xsago on May 28 at 11:45

Iguodala for Jefferson, #12,

Tentative starters:
Holiday/Turner/#12 or #16/Brand/Jefferson + Young/Williams/Meeks/#12 or #16 or Hawes

I don't think the answer is to add more youth, but two mid-round picks can give us a couple role players to fill out our core. The preffered move would be using the picks to trade up a la OKC for Aldrich last year. As a side note, I'd expect Young to start in this scenario despite the above line-up. D.C. isn't rookie friendly, right? This wouldn't exactly be an improved team but at least a stronger core... successfulness would depend on Holiday/Young nailing open looks every night and a rookie swingman/shooter type developing into a viable starter (Jordan Hamilton maybe).

The Greek on May 28 at 11:41

Brian, considering that there will be a lockout on July 1, and the draft will be held a week before that deadline. My question to you is will trades be allowed on draft day up until July 1?

All rules are in place until the CBA expires, the NBA can't say the rules are different. Trades can occur until the CBA expires, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to make trades that include future draft picks or long term contracts or soon to be free agents if you don't know what the new rules will be.

I think the NFL was weird in that they still had their draft by their CBA had expired already.

(The 'dispersal draft' itself I believe is not part of a CBA because the players are not yet part of the union, though their contracts are part of the cba - so players will get drafted, but not signed)

Michael Jordan had help - he didn't win all by himself in fact until certain players and a certain coach showed up - he didn't win.

Jordan is worshiped as a god, but he wasn't (and he is also a questionable human being, i still believe his sojourn to baseball was a suspension because of his gambling issues).

It seems there's more hate towards lebron than there was towards kobe WHEN HE WAS ACCUSED OF RAPE

comparing lebron at the beginning of his career to jordan whose career is complete is entirely too asinine and something all sports reporters need to stop doing - they don't have the same career length.

How many MVP's and nba finals did Jordan make by this time in his career?

How young was he when he made his first final? his first mvp?

How was his rebounding and assists?

johnrosz reply to GoSixers on May 28 at 15:00

Gambling doesn't make you a bad person. He just wasn't the person that the marketing guru's created for the public.

He may not have been a great guy, but his PR people were brilliant. The squeaky clean image he had when I was growing up was fantastic. Something tells me that in todays internet age, he would have been portrayed much differently, (maybe someone snaps a cell phone video of him drunkenly berating a blackjack dealer at 4 am)

Tray reply to GoSixers on May 28 at 15:06

I don't know how much LeBron hate there is, people seem to be getting over it. But yeah, what you say about the early part of Jordan's career is true. No one seriously thinks he could've won championships playing with Mo Williams and Varejao, do they?

Rich reply to GoSixers on May 28 at 20:46

I was driving around today and on WIP this guy said something that made me drive off the road:


He said Scottie Pippen was the most overrated played in the Hall of Fame and I can't remember, but I think he called him a fraud as well. You may not agree with what he said, but that makes you already unqualified to talk about basketball.

Kobe got a lot of hate for the rape charge, and it was completely bogus. Those who didn't hate on him probably read the facts, which showed that when the girl told Kobe to stop, he stopped (a.k.a. not rape).

Lakers wouldn't even trade Bynum for Carmelo Anthony. They're not trading Bynum for Iggy. Bynum has always been untouchable, I think the only way that could change is for Dwight Howard.

Chris Broussard: Cavs, Pistons, Twolves discussing 3-team trade that would give Cavs 1st & 2nd picks, sources say

Cavs absorb Rip Hamilton into 14.6 mill trade exception & get Det's 8th pick. Cavs send 4th & 8th picks to Minny for 2nd pick

Cavs would then draft Kyrie No. 1 and Derrick Williams No. 2. Nothing imminent but trade us being discussed by the teams

johnrosz reply to sixerfan1220 on May 28 at 14:56

Good for Cleveland if that goes down, at least it will give the fans something to be excited about for a couple years while they try to improve the product.

Tray reply to johnrosz on May 28 at 15:01

Of course, they could both just be alright.

johnrosz reply to Tray on May 28 at 15:03

that probably will happen, but it gives them hope...

Tray reply to johnrosz on May 28 at 16:57

Well I guess it gives them hope at the price of a Hamilton buyout. And really, the only hope it gives them is the upgrade from #4 to #2. Just given the iffiness of this draft, I'd say there's about a 40% chance #4 ends up being a better player. There are a ton of athletic threes in the NBA. Granted, it's probably very important to have one in the East if you want to contend in the next five years.

Forgot to mention that if trade happens Cavs would buy out Rip Hamilton. But may be smart to wait & see if amnesty clause in new CBA....

If this happens, lets just get rid of the pistons franchise.

Chirs Broussard: Detroit won't do 3-team deal as proposed. Would need to get players back in return for Rip and 8th pick...stay tuned

Haha seriously. If they were going to just give away Rip and the #8, we should be hopping on that train.

eddies' heady's on May 28 at 15:20

1st round pick

If we go big - Motiejunas (whom I really liked two years ago) or Jordan Williams
If not a big - preferably Chris Singleton, or Jordan Hamilton with Marshon Brooks looking appealing

2nd round pick

I would love love to get Nolan Smith (total threat - shoot or penetrate - and skilled to boot) on this team, if not then Andrew Goudelock (can fill it up) or Reggie Jackson
But even if we went big with the 1st round pick I'd still feel good if we ended up taking Matthew Bryan-Amaning in the 2nd round

I agree with your 1st round desires (I'd like Motiejunas or Jordan Hamilton). For 2nd round, I really don't want Nolan Smith. Reggie Jackson will be a beast I think, but I think he'll go first round.

Question: when people here say they "like" a prospect, have you watched them, or are you just saying that because you like what you've read about him? For example, I find it hard to believe that the people who say they really like Biyombo but don't like Kanter have seen either play much; very few people have. It has to be more of a liking certain types of players thing. Which I think can be totally misguided. For example, last year the same people were saying they liked Udoh much more than Monroe for the same sorts of reasons (Monroe was supposedly a finesse guy whose single projectible skill was passing, Udoh was this wonderful athletic shot-blocker), and nobody was talking about Davis, because everyone had read the same articles about how his sophomore season was a disappointment.

Cin reply to Tray on May 28 at 17:19

I think this is a fair assumption for most international prospects, although some marquee imports have plenty of game tape available. It's not as easy as collegiate prospects in the US, but I didn't have a hard time getting good looks on Jan Vesely for example. Mind you I'm not building a scouting report but finding where they'd fit with the 76ers. Enes Kanter is a rare case in being a top prospect who hasn't done anything in two years. Everyone is just guessing about him.

Some things can't be unseen however... like Tristan Thompson's offensive game. Ugh.

amen!I think so much of this pre-draft chatter is kind of silly, with a lot of opinions and very little knowledge. it's not far from a crapshoot, especially in years like this, for the people who evaluate these players for a living, let alone a bunch of guys on the internet. that said, it's fun, and it occupies time. i just don't take it too seriously. the proof will be in the pudding. the one player i like is derrick williams but there are tons of question marks with him too.

eddies' heady's reply to Tray on May 28 at 20:29

All of my observations and "liking" of players comes from solely watching them in multiple college years (if possible). I don't read anything on most players (with Donatas being the exception, two years ago when he was getting the pub I had to seek out articles on him mostly from foreign sources).

This is where nearly all of my opinion of players like Evan Turner and Ty Lawson, for example, come from. I only saw Jrue about 20 games in his only year of college and was not high on him due to mainly his lack of a shot (which is nicely coming around) and just wasn't convinced he could run a team on this level (which is still a work in progress). Hence my initial pessimism.

My liking mostly comes from guys that I think will be available where we pick and of value at that pick. I initially was high on Greg Monroe last year when I could sense we would have a top ten pick before the year ended. After taking Brian's opinion and statements on him into consideration, I sort of changed course and saw what could be some of his weaknesses coming to fruition on the next level (not so much now though). I then switched gears and felt Udoh could be more of a shotblocker/rebounder with some other skills to boot (not so much now though again :))

As for Davis, I never liked his potential or translation to the next level even with his shortened sophomore season. I think I mentioned on here that he couldn't hit a shot outside of 8 feet and I wanted no part of him (didn't watch him much this year admittedly so still not sure how he's looking).

So I really don't read up on prospects at all, I just go off what I've seen with the supposedly trained eye I guess. That's why I have no opinion on these foreign guys but wish I had more exposure to them. I just liked the fact a couple years ago that Montiejunas was a supposedly skilled 7 footer that could shoot and thought he could be an intriguing prospect but can't remember for whatever reason he didn't come out that year after being highly talked about by the league he played in and where I was able to read up on him.

I can find plenty of time to watch a wide array of college ball but just can't find the time, or really don't want or care, to read about draftees.

Rich reply to Tray on May 28 at 20:37

Those two are different situations because of the huge difference between international guys and college prospects with regards to exposure. I see what you are saying about the international guys, but we can only go with what we read and people who do watch them.

I saw Monroe and Udoh play a ton last year, and I don't recall what I thought because they weren't on my radar, but Monroe was a soft, finesse player in college and that was apparent. The reason for that was that Princeton system that JT3 runs at G'Town. As far as Ed Davis goes, he did a poor job his sophomore season as the focal point, and this year he got back to what looks like suits him, an energy-hustle 5th-7th man who sprinkles in a little offense. That's what he did his freshman year.

Tray reply to Rich on May 28 at 21:17

That's another point, that so much of this is a function of system. All the UCLA players have looked way more dynamic on the pro level than in college. Guys like Davis are often the victim of being asked to do too much. Coach K is a brilliant coach and makes players look a lot better than they really are. And so on. But my point is actually that people bring preconceived preferences to the draft, like preferring physical athletes, that cause them to assume the best of every physical athlete and the worst of every finesse player. And in reality both types have high bust rates and evaluating each player's potential on a case-by-case basis makes so much more sense than saying that one likes Biyombo better than Kanter because athletes > skill guys. One of these soft Euro bigs is eventually going to be the next Pau Gasol or Nowitzki, and history tells us that a lot of Biyombo types end up like Petro, Saar Sene, or Jerome Moiso.

HendrikDB reply to Tray on May 30 at 2:53

Euro bigs have a better basketball basis as the basketball education is on a much higher level. Once Europe starts adding athelticism the NBA will be flooded with a lot more players from Europe. The key is to get the Europe Bigs young so you can add that athleticism as fast as possible.

Dirk is pretty athletic although he wouldn't give that impression. Hitting one legged fade-aways isn't all about finess, you need a lot of stamina and altheticism to hit those all game long. I think the reason Dirk is so good is that he started to train in America at a young age combine with a great basketball basis received in Europe.

I think he also said that if Williams ended up playing PF then they could trade JJ Hickson for value.

Hypothetically, Iguodala for Hickson and filler could work- although it better be good filler.

Hickson would be a nice long term combo with Jrue and Turner. They would still need a center, but it could be a defensive specialist, since Hickson can score.

I think he also said that if Williams ended up playing PF then they could trade JJ Hickson for value.

Hypothetically, Iguodala for Hickson and filler could work- although it better be good filler.

Hickson would be a nice long term combo with Jrue and Turner. They would still need a center, but it could be a defensive specialist, since Hickson can score.

Tray reply to tk76 on May 28 at 18:20

Hickson was pretty bad last year - great in maybe a fifth of the games he played, kind of terrible in the rest.

I'm sure he suffered a ton from the team stinking, and was not nearly good enough to carry them.

But with the right PG I think he can be a great P&R scorer. But he's not going to carry his team or control the paint.

So not the answer top all problems, but maybe 1/2 of the long term answer to their frontcourt needs.

I don't think Hickson is a winning type of player to be honest... I'm not sure he will ever be an offensive frontcourt solution, and he has little chance of becoming even decent defensively.

I agree. Not impressed at all with Hickson.

Column: Sixers should focus on need positions in draft:


Spencer Flaws on May 29 at 23:21

i wish nba 2k11 could be real life. I just made so many nice trades and i exported the 2011 and '12 draft classes.
PG: Austin Rivers
SG: Eric Gordon
SF: Wesley Johnson
PF: Blake Griffin
C : Enes Kanter
My bench has nic batum, glen davis, deandre jordan, and lou williams. We had biyombo and vesely but traded to get the #1 pick in the 2012 draft to select austin rivers.

You can do that? They actually have Austin Rivers and you don't have to create him? If so, that's awesome.

HendrikDB reply to Rich on May 30 at 2:43

Austin Rivers is going to be big. I'd love to see him in a Philly jersey and I really hope he doesn't end up in a stupid team like Wall did in Washington.

I vote Spencer Flaws for new GM!

you can download a draft class that was made by somebody else. Not an Official roster, but still pretty cool. ESPN 2k11 franchise mode is pretty weak however.

Scheduled to be on WIP AM 610 in Philly Tuesday morning at 8:30 to talk NBA Finals and Sixers.

won't be able to listen live but post a link after if possible

That was an interesting point that we were debating earlier in the thread. We really have limited exposure to European/International players, but college players are often a product of their coaches/systems. With that in mind, I was thinking about the college players in this draft. Maybe others can fill in with the next player and what his college career might mean. It's not scientific, but it can be a useful excercise:

1. Irving, Duke: No real precedent for this type of player from Duke because the only one that comes to mind is Jay Williams, and he only played a year. History has been kinds to Williams, as I have seen comments from different people talking about his great potential, which may have been true. That still doesn't make his rookie year extremely inefficient, as Evan Turner had a markedly better year. Irving really reminds me of Williams, except he was a much better shooter (actually an excellent one) in games against good and bad competition. He had great games against Michigan State and Butler, the game he got hurt in.

Coach K's best current NBA players right now are more athletic swing guys (Maggette, Battier, Grant Hill, Deng, Henderson) and bruising PF's with a face up game (Brand and Boozer). Now in my opinion, he has been the best college coach for about 10 years now, maybe longer. His offensive drive and kick system has gotten a lot from scoring PG's too. Look at how seamlessly Nolan Smith stepped in after Irving was hurt. Now that might just be that Smith was an experienced and damn good senior guard, but it looks like something has to do with what they run. I did feel that it was a PG's dream with their loaded team this year, with their always great floor spacing and four knock-down shooters on the floor at all times. Things might not be the same in the NBA for Irving.

So in my opinion, while Irving looks like a very good NBA player, he was playing for a guy and a team that really were made for his talents.

Rich, I've been down on Irving all year as well. I've already placed a bet with a friend regarding his rookie year stats. Good chance I'm wrong but you're not alone in doubting him.

Rich reply to T McL on May 31 at 0:18

I really have no clue what to expect from him, I wish I saw more from him. I liked what I saw from him, but my main point is that he was in a great spot at Duke.

eddies' heady's reply to Rich on May 30 at 21:55

Two points:

No way would I agree that Kyrie is/was a better shooter than Jason Williams. Nor anywhere as athletic as Jay. Williams elevation on his jumper was superb.

Coach K doesn't necessarily run a drive and kick offensive system year in and year out. He actually changes up his system and adjusts it accordingly to what personnel he has that is going to be his strength that particular year. He always keeps the basic staple of high ball screens which often result in drive / kicks, but he publicly admits that he tailors it each year to what he finds out he has in training camp and preseason. If I recall correctly, he even switched his offense up mid-year one year.

As for Irving, imo it doesn't matter what team or system he was in, he's going to excel for years on the next level, particularly because of the more heavily isolated game. The kid's talented as heck from what I gathered. And a heck of a floor general. The brief period I was able to watch him he reminded me more of Chris Paul than Jason Williams except for the pick and roll prowess which they don't run a ton of at Duke.

You mentioned there's no real precedent for this type of player from Duke (not sure what this encapsulates?), but what about Johnny Dawkins?

Interesting take. I'm not old enough to have even seen Johnny Dawkins play in the pros, so I believe it if you say so. I just figure that it might be better to keep it withing a 10-15 year span. The game changes enough from even the beginning of this decade. That was a totally different era, but that's just what I think.

As far as the Jay Williams comparisons go, Irving definitely is a notch below as an athlete. I agree with that. It's tough because Irving didn't play in ACC games, even though he played against good comp in Butler, Kansas State, Marquette, Oregon, Michigan State, and Arizona. He looked very good in almost all of those games.

With that in mind, Williams' freshman year shooting number compared to Irving's are way in Irving's favor. Irving shot a much better three point percentage (46) than Williams' field goal percentage (42). Williams got better the next two years, but I don't see any way that he can be considered a much better shooter than Irving, much less a better shooter at all. The only argument against Irving is his small sample size, but he really played well against good teams and didn't pad stats against bad ones.

Not trying to bait you, but this needs to be said: I also wonder why you are so high on Willams' shooting, when again, as a 22 year old rookie, he had a lower true shooting percentage than whipping boy Evan Turner.

He does switch the offense up year to year, but last year Duke really put four guys on the three point line and a Plumlee in the paint. I'm not sure he gets the driving lanes he has at Duke in Cleveland. To me he's a notch below Chris Paul because he doesn't have that quickness and looks to score a little more. He won't be in the top level of PG's, but he'll be a plus starter and good building block to have. Maybe a little bit of a Jrue Holiday type offensive game with a better shot? I really wish we got to see a full season from him.

eddies' heady's reply to Rich on May 31 at 10:48

Totally agree it was a different era when Dawkins came out. Just throwing out a beloved former Sixer.

You're focusing on numbers and stats to make a judgment on Irving vs Williams shooting when I'm just going off of memory and opinion. I didn't look anything up, not to mention, as you said, Irving just doesn't have enough there to glean anything from.

And where did I say I was "high" on Williams shooting? I just said I think he was a better shooter than Irving. Williams had legit NBA three point range on his jumper, Turner doesn't seem to yet, and Irving I think will struggle from the deeper line initially.

Nothing towards you, but it's funny how I'm accused of turning threads into Evan Turner discussions yet you pull this out of nowhere. Cherry picking a stat and all. Why not just say that Williams had a higher eFG%? It'd be just as less meaningful.

"No way would I agree that Kyrie is/was a better shooter than Jason Williams."

I'm just pointing out that the stats aren't close to backing it up. Now maybe college hoops was better back then which a lot of people think, and I do too. So maybe Williams' numbers mean a little more.

The Turner thing is a valid talking point too. True shooting percentage and effective field goal percentage are quality metrics to analyze a person's shooting, not meaningless at all. TS says that Turner was better than Williams his rookie year, who you think is better than Irving. So it's fair to say that you think Irving might struggle a tad this year? I think that's possible.

P.S. The big elephant Williams has in his favor is that he would have been a much better player after the hand-check rules change.

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