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Andre Iguodala For Monta Ellis Rumor

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johnrosz on Jun 7 at 0:05
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What if they give you 11? 11+16 probably gets you up a few spots to take Biyombo.

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Vincent on Jun 7 at 0:09
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Ha-ha.. An undersized SG who is a defensive liability and makes Lou Williams redundant. Maybe the Sixers can use some of the money they save in this deal to give tissue soft Spencer Hawes a nice little deal.

Jrue/Monta/Turner/Brand/Hawes...

Philly personified...

I'm > < this close to losing all faith in everything.

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HendrikDB reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 0:20
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The REAL problem is, the warriors won't even hesitate to do this trade...for obvious reasons.

Wooh--Ha Allen Overson is back .....

I'm having a serious argument with someone who is paid to write about basketball about whether Kaman is a better player than Iguodala. I quit.

His argument: Kaman was an All Star once.

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Charlie H reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 9:47
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Well that pretty much settles it.

I really don't think Thorn would consider trading Iguodala for Ellis; there's no way on earth it makes sense.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 0:31
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Saw that. Absolutely insane. I loved the All-Star argument. Here's one for him: Even beyond all of the advanced stats that show Kaman not being a good player, has Kaman ever been on a good team? A mediocre team? Once?

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mario reply to Rich on Jun 7 at 0:33
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Where can i see this. is it on twitter or on a blog?

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Rich reply to mario on Jun 7 at 0:36
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http://twitter.com/#!/depressedfan

Scroll down to the series of tweets with Mario Acquirre. You can see the conversation if you click on one of the tweets.

It all makes sense now...

Holiday is Eric Snow, Ellis is Iverson, Turner is McKie, Brand is Hill and Hawes is a Seven foot Stiff...

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ballboy reply to Mario on Jun 7 at 14:35
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Spencer hawes is matt Geiger??

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ballboy reply to Mario on Jun 7 at 14:56
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Spencer hawes is matt Geiger??

Jackson always stresses defense on television. I wonder how good he is at teaching it, but if his schtick is to be believed, he would be pushing for this one if the Sixers were dumb enough to do it.

Jonrosz that is interesting as far as Biyombo is concerned, but is Monta Ellis a good fit with any team that doesn't play a ridiculous style that involves zero defense? It's not just that he's bad alongside Turner. I kind of hate him next to Jrue too.

Anyone else kind of mad that Jackson got that job? I don't usually get mad at that kind of stuff, but you could tell he always thought that it was crazy he couldn't get a job.

That guy has never coached a meaningful basketball game in his life (Does he coach AAU teams? That's not meaningful but I wonder if he's ever coached at all) and he is given an NBA coaching job. Someone had an interesting tweet wondering what Van Gundy really thinks of this hiring. He's a guy who gets mad when veteran coaches get fired too quickly in his opinion. He's also a guy who paid his dues and is a worker. Jackson has none of those things going for him.

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johnrosz reply to Rich on Jun 7 at 0:31
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Yeah, I cringe at the idea of Jrue/ET ball watching as Monta jacks up 20+ shots per contest.

If they're going to succeed with this core, those 2 have to pan out, and I feel confident that if ET is ever going to turn into a player, it has to be with the ball in his hands. Monta puts a huge wrench in those plans.

Mark Jackson, Vinny Del Negro, and Kevin McHale are all examples of ex-players with little to no coaching experience but get hired due to being able to interview well. One of the advantages of being a broadcaster might be the practice you get in learning to sell yourself...

Possible Thorn quote: "We just didn't shoot enough shots last year."

Interesting. Here's the story.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6633355

Not sure what to think. I like Iggy. But I don't think his trade value is equal to his abilities, so a guy like Ellis might be one of the best players we could get for him (I think Ellis is pretty darn good). Which of course leads to the argument "Why trade him at all?" but if he wants out, that could be why.

Ellis blows, that's why they'd trade him.

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Rich reply to stoned81 on Jun 7 at 0:40
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It's not that Ellis isn't a pretty good player. He is, and I agree to an extent about Dre's trade value and abilities. I just don't see Ellis as a guy that fits into what Doug is trying to do here. At all really. If the Sixers had say, Charlotte's personnel and Iguodala, then it would be a totally different story. Milwaukee is another team that I'd be much more inclined to trade with as well if Dre was on that team.

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Rich reply to Rich on Jun 7 at 0:59
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I completely take this back. Last year clouded my judgment just watching him, thinking he was pretty good. Iguodala was basically just as good of a scorer with a less volume. The two years before he was horrendous. Ellis actually isn't much better than Iguodala scoring the ball even in his best year.

I think Ellis might fit in pretty well with Collins. He seems to love gunners (his two favorite players all year seemed to be LouWill and Thad). It would helpful if we could package LouWill with Iggy in this deal (or trade LouWill for something else). I agree with Brian that having both Ellis and LouWill on the same team is lunacy.

But really I think Ellis fits, because he replaces Lou but at the same time is wayyyyyy better than Lou. Ellis shoots 45% every year. Pretty solid. Lou shot 40.6% last year. Just awful.

Ellis had a handful of 40-point games and several 30-point games. We don't have anyone who can do that, so it seems like he'd be a good fit. I'm not saying PPG is everything, it's not, but it helps to have at least one guy who can score a ton (we have plenty of guys who do everything else). I know Ellis doesn't play D, but again, neither does LouWill, and Ellis is a way better scorer than LouWill.

I'm higher on Turner than just about anyone else, but I do think he has the defense and rebounding skills to at least somewhat compensate for losing Iggy. And Ellis adds points which should balance out any drop in defense.

Ellis could also probably put some fans in the stands. Not that he's some famous star, but Philly fans like to see scorers, and he brings that. At least the novelty would bring in some fans for a while, and if the team wins, it could catch on.

Just throwing out some positive ideas, if it goes down I'll try to be the optimist of the blog!

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Rich reply to stoned81 on Jun 7 at 1:23
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That's great that he's better than Lou even though he's not offensively. (True shooting percentage tells a better story, Lou was better last year).

The point is that we aren't trading Lou for him, we are trading our best player. That's ridiculous.

What is true shooting percentage? I have no idea what that means.

True shooting percentage takes three pointers and free throws into account. It's a more accurate measure of how efficiently a player scores. FG% doesn't really tell you a whole lot.

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Rich reply to stoned81 on Jun 7 at 1:39
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It properly weights threes and free throws (taken and how much you make them) all into one statistic. I think it's a more complete way to look at it than just saying he shot 40 percent. 40 percent when he's making a lot of threes is better than someone who shoots 43 percent and only shoots twos. I'm not the best at explaining it though.

Lou tends to do very well in this category because he gets to the line and does damage there, and he makes threes. Now I understand Lou's stats don't always back up what we are seeing as far as his effect on the team.

Point is, even if Ellis is a better player than Lou, he isn't close to Iguodala. I appreciate the optimism you always have, but this would hurt Turner and Jrue too. It's a lose-lose.

Haha it definitely could be a "Thorn hung up" rumor. Those are entertaining. "Discussed" so that reporters can get people on twitter to link to their stories!

Curry/Wright/Iggy/Lee/Udoh

That's a nice starting five for the Dubs...

It was right around this time last summer that the Dalembert trade happened, right? Maybe a week or two later.

We are the team that traded away an athletic 7 footer and a uber glue guy for a mope head, a mullet, and 7 foot roll of tissue...

If a player decides to take 28 shots in a single game, fate dictates he will probably make 11 of them.

The only thing fate dictates for me is a miserable existence as a basketball fan.

Seriously, there are three possible ways to read this trade, if it happens:

1. Ownership is making them slash the payroll (this won't help free significant cap space any sooner)

2. Thorn is a moron

3. All of the above.

For all of the Ellis bashing, I will say one thing: He was a hell of a player for City Line Chili's. Points, steals, threes, FT percentage. I thoroughly enjoyed having him on a team where his play didn't affect anyone else on the team.

Good point Rich. I believe Ellis actually gave Chili's the idea for the Country Fried Steak platter (showing his Mississippi roots). That alone would make him a great fit.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd almost rather have Thorn's boy Travis Outlaw on the team than Ellis. At least with Outlaw you could tell him to go stand in the corner or the locker room and don't mess up Jrue's game.

I've been afraid of what Thorn might do to us ever since that Outlaw signing. One of the worst signings in NBA history!

OK so don't get me wrong i hate even the idea of trading Iguodala for Ellis. But saying Ellis is absolutely horrible is wrong IMO. Ellis is good at what he is and that's scoring. You can call him rich man's Lou or poor man's Iverson. Both fit him just fine. On a contender he would be a Terry type of player - a very good 6th man. As for TS%, USG% and WS/48 min, they all need to be taken within the context. Just saying player A has higher "x%" than player B means nothing because it depends a lot on the team you are in and what you are asked to do within your teams offense.

There are two things that i'm concerned with with this trade idea:

a) What happens with Lou? There is no way in hell both could be on the team, right?
b) Would you do Ellis + #11 for Iguodala? I guess it depends on what can you get with #11 + #16...

The type of trade that i would be more interested in though is this one:

Iguodala + Lou for Ellis + Wright + #11


In the end, i'm worried about Jrue and Turner coexisting with Ellis, but since Ellis has really only played for the Warriors i will restrain from those comments until i actually see him play within a different system...

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Rich reply to Xsago on Jun 7 at 1:55
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Why restrain the comments? They are legitimate questions.

Sorry i meant i will restrain MYSELF from commenting (unless i just cannot resist haha) because i feel like i know too little to legitimately be able to answer them.

Also look at season 2007/2008. Ellis was used perfectly then. If the Sixers can put him in a similar position and utilize him the same way he may be very useful. He had B.Davis and SJax playing alongside him then. Can Collins make it work with Jrue and Turner?? Oh yeah they were still horrible defensively back then, but that's Don Nelson coaching so i guess it doesn't show all that much...

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Rich reply to Xsago on Jun 7 at 2:48
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Monta is going to be terrible defensively no matter who is coaching the team. He has been lucky in his career to be on teams that value defense less than anyone in the league.

I meant as a team. I agree that Ellis is a lost cause on defense...

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Rich reply to Xsago on Jun 7 at 3:00
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I just don't think that he can be put in a similar situation by Doug because the 76ers, unlike every NBA team Monta has played on, values two sides of the ball while.

The only way to put him in a situation to succeed on this team would be putting the team in a situation to fail.

I stand corrected, Philly.com doesn't have the most idiotic commenters in the world. Check out the comments on Bucher's piece.

Some reading links:

Golden State SB Nation site (Pretty good blog, remember reading it a little after we played them):

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2011/6/6/2210745/warriors-discussing-monta-ellis-for-andre-iguodala-swap

Ben Golliver on CBS. Another smart take, even though he's a little more restrained:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29852156

Pretty funny thread over there. I particularly liked how one guy said "Iggy wouldn't accept being the #2 to Iverson."

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 2:35
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HP doesn't think that the trade would make Golden State better. His quote after I brought up the fit Iguodala could have passing to Curry/Wright/Lee (I think they could make playoffs) and his defense:

"yeah, he could also screw with their end game possessions and big time them"

National perception of the Sixers, everyone!

Yeah, saw that.

Did you catch Fagan's chat last week, btw? She basically said that all the people in the pro-Iguodala camp are just playing devil's advocate now that he's going to be traded.

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Rich reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 2:45
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What do you mean, people that think he's a good player and a part of the future. I haven't read her chats much lately, but isn't her position that he is definitely gone this off-season and that's for the best, at any cost?

I think her exact quote was "There's a faction of fans who are now defending Iguodala just to play devil's advocate."

In Fagan's defense, I'm not sure she knows what devil's advocate means.

I think her exact quote was "There's a faction of fans who are now defending Iguodala just to play devil's advocate."

The amount of arrogance in that quote is disturbing. It's as if no rational Sixer fan could defend Iguodala, only someone who wants to disagree with the "consensus" for the sake of being disagreeable.

Well, she's playing to her eskin influenced audience

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Rich reply to Statman on Jun 7 at 15:01
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Yes, that is a very arrogant quote.

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jkay reply to Rich on Jun 7 at 2:51
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so tragic.

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Charlie H reply to Rich on Jun 7 at 10:13
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Anybody think "the Sixers have trouble scoring?" I don't. It's a pretty good offensive team that has difficulty in late-game situations; I don't think adding a scorer and subtracting an all-league defender helps at all. When you come right down to it, Ellis is not much of an upgrade over Lou, who gets to the line and is much better at going to the hoop.

Even if they do have trouble scoring, Ellis doesn't help that. He uses a ton of possessions to score a ton of points. If you're looking for someone to help the team's scoring, you need to get a guy like Kevin Martin who scores a ton efficiently. If we were talking about Iguodala for Martin, then you could make a legitimate offense for defense argument. With Ellis, you're just getting a bunch of crappy scoring for the best wing defender in the league.

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Charlie H reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 12:23
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Agree. That's why I don't think Thorn is interested. He's not dumb.

In the past 5 years - what evidence do we have tha Thorn isn't dumb?

That Travis Outlaw deal speaks otherwise

Well, the only move he made was to get rid of Willie Green. That's a positive in my book. Remains to be seen what he'll do this summer, if anything.

Unlike some, I actually like Ellis.
but when you're trading for a guy whose contract is just as long and large as Iggy's, it kinda takes the whole point out of the trade. It's just a swap. Like how Emeka Okafor and Tyson Chandler changed hands. Only now we're losing a much better overall player.
Ellis is NOT a two guard. he is a Brandon Roy - Tyreke Evans type. He is not a shooter too. This is almost as bad as Rudy Gay.
THIS IS DAFT!!

From Tim Kawakami's Talking Points blog. He interviewed Jerry West and asked him about Andre for Monta:

But could that deal happen?

-WEST: At least in my mind, I don’t see anything like that happening. Larry and Bob certainly would be better people to answer than me.

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Baptist on Jun 7 at 3:24
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I was really considering this trade but now I'd rather just try to find a way to grab Biyombo, let Turner do his thing and let this team turn into a defensive juggernaut.

I don't think Iggy can get us Biyombo, unfortunately. His trade value is very low (big contract, recent injuries, doesn't fill the seats, not much of a shooter, quasi-wants out of philly). Ellis is probably the best player we can get.

Don't like this trade one bit. Ellis stinks. But what does it say about the value of Iguodala if this trade is even being talked about?

I've been trying to say this for a while. The idea that we could trade Iggy for the #2 or #4 picks was always hooey in my opinion. Teams don't want his contract with an uncertain CBA.

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deepsixersuede on Jun 7 at 7:54
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A couple of related thoughts to go with this trade;

1] Our front office has to be requesting extra pieces to get equal value back.

2]Vesely isn't working out for teams and may drop to #11, is Biyombo doing the same? And Valancuis going to drop with his buyout situation?

3] Maybe Thorn has a Lou deal worked out already and this is part of a bigger plan?

I have to, or I am going to cry, believe in Thorn and Collins putting the puzzle together correctly. Suppose these 3 things happen;

1] We trade Iggy for Ellis,#11 and a future #1.

2] We get Vesely at #11 and Markief Morris at #16.

3] We acquire Maxiel and 33rd pick [J. Tyler] for Lou.

[veteran],Hawes, Tyler
Brand,Morris,Young
Young, Vesely,Turner
Ellis,Turner, Meeks
Jrue, Turner

They have to have more in mind than Iggy for Ellis, is all I am saying and perhaps Collins likes Thad as our future 3 and Evan as a jack of all trades 32 minute off the bench player at the 1, 2, and 3 spots.

No way GSW throws in any picks in an Iggy for Ellis deal, let alone two first-rounders, in my opinion. Iggy doesn't have that trade value, unfortunately.

Neither does Ellis

Ellis is worth less in a trade than Iguodala and thus you have to include something to make it a good trade

Below is the update from this morning on the ESPN Rumor page. I don't think the ESPN Rumor page is anything special, but it says one interesting thing. It says a third team could have to be brought into the deal to satisfy Philadelphia. Who could that third team be and what could they bring? Update is below.

UPDATE: The Warriors first trade with Jerry West on board could in fact involve Elllis. ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher reported late Monday that a deal sending Ellis to Philadelphia for Andre Iguodala has been discussed, although nothing is imminent.

West wants to improve the team on defense and Iguodala would definitely upgrade that side of the floor for the Warriors. The question would come on the 76ers end as they don't need another shooting guard, so a third team may have to be brought in to satisfy Philadelphia.

Ellis has three years and $33 million remaining on his contract, while Iguodala has three years and $44.15 million.

Yeah, bring in a 3rd team that wants Ellis and maybe we can have a sane deal.

I can almost make finantial sense of an Ellis deal. He walks after 2 years (player option.) And you end up with:

Lou 6M
Iggy 14M
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Ellis 11M

So Ellis replaces Lou and it leaves you 9M to spend on other assets...

Except the world does not work that way. Ellis would actually start (cringe) and any savings would be pocketed.

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deepsixersuede reply to tk76 on Jun 7 at 9:12
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Minnesota loved Turner, even though he and Rubio don't compliment each other; maybe the #2 pick is in play and they want Ellis.

I just read Cleveland and Utah are looking to trade down to the #10 to #19 range on hoopshype, maybe Thorn is targeting a top 5 pick which makes more sense, at least.

Here's a possibility. In the deal plus we swap no 1's(Sixers get #11, GS get #16). Of course we still have a small backcourt.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ysreu4


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deepsixersuede reply to sfw on Jun 7 at 9:19
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I just read that the Sixers have interest in Montiejunis at #16; at least he has some upside and may lead to Hawes' departure; they definitely can't play next to each other.

West and Gold. St. seem to really like Klay Thompson, as Ellis' replacement. As stoned81 said above, their draft pick may not be in play. But somebody elses maybe be.

Both Gold. St. and Minn. seem to want a veteran and both may be willing to acquire [Iggy, Gold. St.] and [Ellis, Minn.] while allowing us to possibly get a young big.

Interesting piece:

http://thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=741

It says that the Sixers (according to sources) are keying in on Motiejunas and are hoping one of Valnciunas and Tristan Thompson falls. Vucevic is also an option. There is also a mention of trading down or out if none of them is there.

No mention of trading up, Kanter, Biyombo or anyone else...

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deepsixersuede reply to Xsago on Jun 7 at 9:25
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Have you heard if any of the foreign guys are working out for teams? Vesely isn't but maybe they drop if they don't which helps the Sixers. Vucevic reminds me of R. Nesterovic a little. Better than Hawes, probably; a good backup,yea; a starter on a good team, doubtful; but at #16 not a bad pick.

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Ryan F on Jun 7 at 9:22
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Not for this trade at all. If Iguodala is moved it has to be for an established front court player or a young big with upside. That is it.

While I think that Ellis is a bad fit and that a straight up deal for Iguodala would be a bad move, he's a better player than he's being given credit for.

He has explosive scoring ability, but he's been given too much freedom by a bad organization. Granted, the sixers are a bad organization too.

He's not the direction that I would try to go, but if it has to be him - would a trade of Turner/Nocioni be more palatable? Now you have Iguodala and Holiday to balance out the deficiencies in Ellis' game. You still need to address the frontcourt, but a guy who can put up 30 would allow Jrue and Andre to focus on their other strengths.

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deepsixersuede reply to CM on Jun 7 at 9:36
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That scenerio makes more sense for both teams, with Turner a perfect compliment to Curry and Iggy getting a scorer next to him. But Turner seems like more of a winning player than Ellis to me, for no one reason.

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Ryan F on Jun 7 at 9:41
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I'd do Iguodala for Curry/Biedrins and hope that Beidrins can play more than 50 games one of these years.

Kate seems giddy. I can't tell you how thrilled I'd be about Turner and Thad competing to be our starting SF. Ugh.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 9:51
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That is a scary thought. double ugh

It's kind of funny, actually. I think Thad probably wouldn't have much of a problem scoring on threes. Turner, from what I saw last season, will get absolutely swallowed up on the offensive end if he's being guarded by threes.

On the other end of the floor, Turner could probably do a decent job of guarding threes, at least average, while Thad wouldn't have a prayer.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 9:58
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Good summary, though, I don't know if I'd say Thad would be THAT bad. I saw some improvement from him individually this year, though more of that may have come from the scheme and system.

I think the improvement came from the fact that he was pretty much exclusively guarding interior players. Whenever he was on a stretch four, he got completely lit up. Playing him on the wing, defensively, is a terrible idea imo.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 10:03
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Yeah I agree, his lateral quickness and instincts just aren't there for whatever reason. He would get eaten alive on the perimeter.

How the hell is trading Iguodala for Ellis actually swaping Meeks + Iguodala for Ellis + Young or Turner? Did she forget that bench players also play important roles on teams? I used to like Fagan but her standards have dropped off to horrendous levels of late...

Monta was her number one target, if that tells you anything.

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deepsixersuede on Jun 7 at 9:48
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Taking Fagen's comments out of the equation, what are the top 3 reasons' why Collins, while watching Miami in these playoffs, would even conceive of moving Iggy?

Mine are these;

1] He gets him a starting center.
2] Young will be able to start and defend 3's and be an 18 to 20 ppg. efficient score.
3] Budget restrictions don't allow for much improvement as the team is constructed now.

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eddies' heady's on Jun 7 at 9:49
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Hey, at least there's chatter.

Shake 'em up, shake 'em up, shake 'em up, shake 'em!

Any change is good at this point, to me. Would love to free up Andre's money (however little after the proposed swap) and add a different element to the squad, but just wish it was Turner going instead of Dre.

All of it is rather moot though, at this point just a bunch of hub-bub over nothing. Holler back when something ACTUALLY happens. West can't be crazy enough to orchestrate a trade before ANY decision is made with the new labor agreement. He can't be...

Uh, West would pull the trigger because Iguodala is a far superior player to Ellis and his team would take a giant step closer to being a decent defensive team instead of the laughing stock they are right now. You make that move regardless of the CBA situation.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 9:56
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Take on all that money and years just to become a decent defensive team? It's not like that makes them a legitimate contender.

Guess we'll see, but I say no way he does that this close to the expiration of the labor deal.

They aren't taking on any additional years, they're signed for the same length. Iguodala's contract escalates, Monta's doesn't. That's the money difference.

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eddies' heady's reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 10:01
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Oh, thought someone said above that Ellis' last year was a player option. So I thought his deal was one year shorter.

Both of them have player options in their final year, and I'd say it's very likely both players will exercise their player options.

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 10:10
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Do you think Iggy went to Collins and said he wants out?

I kind of doubt that, but your guess is probably as good as mine. I will say this, though. I'd rather have an unhappy Iguodala here than a happy Monta Ellis. I'd rather have an expiring contract and nothing else than Ellis.

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Mario reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 10:19
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Chris Kaman, come on down....

That's "Former All Star Chris Kaman" to you.

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deepsixersuede reply to eddies' heady's on Jun 7 at 10:03
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It may be as much that West and their front office want Ellis out as Iggy there. If they still like Ellis they could draft Leonard or Vesely or Singleton and add to what they have now but it seems they want a chemistry change.

I wonder which team is doing this deal from a position of strength? It seems like they are by the return we are getting.

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eddies' heady's reply to deepsixersuede on Jun 7 at 10:09
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hmmmn, interesting way to look at things. I would go as far as to say that we are also looking for a chemistry change if all that is true about Andre thumbing his nose up at the exit interviews.

ah, hell, it's all just speculation and innuendo at this point, i'm not going to get my mind wrapped up in it til it lends itself to being more concrete. A rumor is just that - a rumor.

I'll stop watching the sixers for a couple years if monta ellis came back in a deal. I'm sorry, but he's just awful.

if this happens they would need to draft a "real" SF, i like young but i cant see him guarding some of the sf in the eastern conference. turner might be able to guard them but i havent really seen it yet

See my comment above. Turner can probably do an adequate job guarding SFs, but he won't be able to score on them. Young can score on them, but can't guard them.

i guess they can get away with playing turner on the sf's

if they can teach ellis not shoot every time he touches the ball and play some defense....... ahhhh nvm i can only dream

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emtmess reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 11:36
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If Tobias Harris is available at 16 and he is our pick. You could play Thad at the 4 Harris at the 3 and Turner at the 2 and Ellis at the 1. Turner would play more of the point on off. whil playing against the other teams 2. Ellis would be like 2 on off. and a matador on D. I think Harris could be good enough to guard 3 and 4 players for a bit. Who ever you play at the 5 would have to be a role player some D and rebounding. This could be a nice change of pace lineup. All that being said I do not want Ellis on this team because we do not know how Turner will be yet and I think Ellis playing starters min. will really hurt him.

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Stephon on Jun 7 at 10:21
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"His stats are sick. He's what you could call a one-man-wrecking crew from the two guard. In his last full season, he shot 53.1% from the floor. A shooting guard, shooting over 50% is just ridiculous. While Baron Davis was jacking threes left and right and the rest of the Warriors were picking up table scraps, Ellis was carving up defenders. He's a good rebounder, a decent creator for his teammates, he gets to the line."

Was that something I wrote about him three years ago? Makes sense, his numbers were amazing that year, since he's been garbage.

Sigh

How many times has this trade rumor been floated in the past year or so? Such a bad one sided deal.

ANd no - making a deal just for the sake of making a deal isn't smart, it's asinine

I can't believe that trading Iguodala wouldn't be able to bring back a good frontcourt player or at the very least a high draft pick. How could his value have fallen this far if that's true? Also I don't get how some people are saying that Turner should play forward. It seems to me every advantage he has is as a guard.

what does this mean?

This is a surprise: From ESPN.com Henry Abbott: Comcast Sixers sale imminent to a NY-based leveraged buyout specialist Joshua Harris
from Kevin Negandhi twitter

Since it's not actually on truehoop - it probably mans somone hacked negandhi's account.

Selling the sixers isn't as simple as just selling the sixers, they're corporate owned as is the stadium they play in with the flyers.

But if yo uwanna get your hopes up - he's rich (#655 on the forbes list)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Management

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Joshua-Harris_2GYY.html

The team is being sold! WTF? Is this good or bad?

What the fuck is happening today?

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eddies' heady's reply to Ryan F on Jun 7 at 11:04
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If they're being sold from under Snider, then that can only be a good thing, no?

YES!!! please let it be true!

A. The grass isn't always greender
B. LBO specialists aren't exactly big into spending money, they're into taking things at a discount turning them around quickly to sell them for a profit which usually means asset clearance so that the debt level is less
C. Look at recent NBA ownership changes, which ones have been good for their franchises?

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eddies' heady's reply to GoSixers on Jun 7 at 11:10
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Sorry, John, when the grass has been dormant and brown since 1996 (sans one year largely because of one player), it can do nothing but get greener.

I don't think it's fair to judge how individuals will operate a hundreds of million dollar company by looking at how they obtained the wealth they now have to make such a possible purchase.

You think looking at a mans business history isn't a good indicator of how he runs business going forward?

You think change for changes sake is a good idea

You hear the sixers are being sold and decide it's good without knowing anything about the guy buying the company

That's just foolish

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 7 at 11:33
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you are right. Lets just hope the guy is ultra competitive.

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jsmoove reply to GoSixers on Jun 7 at 17:01
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You're really silly at times. The guy has an opinion and level of excitement as a fan - albeit a different one than yours - yet you call that foolish?

When did you become the emotion and opinion police?

Everyone can't be or think just like you - thank goodness.

What's sad is you don't even see the ridiculous hypocrisy in doing exactly what you told me i can't do. I have my right to my opinion and he has his, i can think his opinion is foolish and tell him so - but for some reason it's not ok for me to express my opinion but it's ok to tell me how to express my opinion.


This isn't your sand box. Only one person can tell me how to express my opinion here - because it's his sandbox.

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deepsixersuede reply to Ryan F on Jun 7 at 11:07
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It would be just our luck if the year we get an owner willing to spend the n.b.a. puts a hard cap in.

And what makes you think he's a guy willing to spend?

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Jun 7 at 11:11
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Just saying that would be the luck we would have, no clue about him. And thanks for the info about him.

How much value do the sixers have if they don't own the arena they play in and their tv rights are held by the former owner?

Anyone else find this oddly suspicious? Something like this doesn't come out of the blue. It took almost a year to find a buyer for the pistons, the warriors, the hornets STILL can't find a buyer, but suddenly, without warning, the corporate entangled sixers are about to be sold in a quick moving deal that no one leaked?

This whole thing smells

And reading Harri's history - he's a bottom feeder type person. Don't expect him to be spending big bucks, expect him to try to put lip stick on a cow for a quick turn around for a profit.

This one in particular

In May 2008, Apollo invested in Vantium, a company that buys residential mortgage assets as part of a strategy to profit from the housing market crash.

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deepsixersuede reply to GoSixers on Jun 7 at 11:09
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That sounds like we are getting a slumlord type.

A leveraged buyout (or LBO, or highly-leveraged transaction (HLT), or "bootstrap" transaction) occurs when an investor, typically financial sponsor, acquires a controlling interest in a company's equity and where a significant percentage of the purchase price is financed through leverage (borrowing). The assets of the acquired company are used as collateral for the borrowed capital, sometimes with assets of the acquiring company. Typically, leveraged buyout uses a combination of various debt instruments from bank and debt capital markets. The bonds or other paper issued for leveraged buyouts are commonly considered not to be investment grade because of the significant risks involved.[1]

That's how McCourt bought the Dodgers, borrowing money against real estate assets. Even before his divorce he was having issues having the cash to really build a winner in LA (which is what Selig wanted).

I'm not getting excited about the whisper of a rumor especially from a guy who specializes in buyouts like this.

I know more than I care to about LBOs. My wife actually writes about them. She's doing some digging, hopefully she can chase down a story from the financial angle and I'll post a link to it when it's published.

I have serious mixed feelings about PE guys owning teams, why they do it, and what it says about how the leagues are run.

Don't get me started on this, being in LA i know more about the dodgers fiasco and how MLB turned down an all cash offer from one of the richest folks around to take ont he mccourts crappy offer to restrict their spending. Which is why i don't feel bad about this divorce thing. Selig reaped what he sowed.

My gut tells me this guy wouldn't be better than Snider

Snider spends money. My concern is that he'll be like Huizenga after they won the series, only without the whole winning the series thing.

If the sale does go through, what does this mean for our FAs? I have been reading about this Apollo firm but have no idea of what it means for this team. Don't know whether to be excited or nervous..weird day. First Monta, now this. I need to go home and try and wrap my head around it all.

So much for a boring June day.

At the moment no one knows what it means, but I'm skeptical it's even real. No one else has reported this rumor, which is all it is, rumor on the ESPN.com web site that hasn't even be repurposed on the csnphilly web site which, should, in theory, have a bit of an idea of what comcast might be planning and either post a denial or something.

I did some reading about the guy, the firm he runs has had some lawsuits concerning fraud in the past, I don't like what happened the companies his firm bought, and well, his companies IPO is trading below the issue price a few months after it launched, and that's just never a good sign about how the health of a company is viewed.

Now, is Harris buying as an individual or is Harris buying for Apollo. If Apollo is buying, it's one corporate owner for another, yet one that has no vested interest in sports success to their bottom line, pure profitability anyway they can get it.

If Harris is buying as an individual, harvard trained, wharton mba, so maybe he's smart, or maybe he just knew the right people, never know, but there's no way to know what goes on until guy takes over and makes moves. His 'speech' when he buys the team will mean very little as well. Actions will speak.

A rich guy who can't get out of his own way willing to spend doesn't always work - just ask daniel snyder.

There's no guarantee a new owner is good or bad for the sixers, but I'm wary

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deepsixersuede reply to Ryan F on Jun 7 at 11:36
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Taking on court impact out of it for a minute, does an Iggy for Ellis trade add value to this team if it is being sold? Move a player some fans want gone for a guy that may put some fannies in the seats.

That thought process made me throwup in my mouth about, I am depressed !!!

Damn I hadn't even connected the two.

Though if you're making a move for financial reasons - you find one of them expiring contracts and trade fot that.

$11M less in committed payroll makes the team look better on paper if this is strictly about making money for the buyer.

How much better does it look if you trade for Kaman who only has one more year due?

$30M+ better. But they'll have some kind of algorithm valuing wins. Say Iguodala to Monta costs you 30 wins over three years, that's what $350K/win? Kaman could cost you a lot more than that, so does the math work out? That's how you have to look at it.

Depends if they're in it for the short term, stripping it bare, making it more palatable for sale, or the longer term.

But realistically, how do you buy a team without getting any of the other assets, what sort of rent will comcast ask for playing in their stadium where it didn't exist before, what sort of conessions on tv rights will comcast wring out - can they shop the sixers to other local networks or must they stay with comcast?

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deepsixersuede reply to Brian on Jun 7 at 11:52
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If Collins likes Iggy and is out of the loop on this, does he look to go elsewhere?

Dammit, the grass may definitely not be greener!!!

The Sixers are becoming more and more like the LA Clippers

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johnrosz on Jun 7 at 11:40
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Pat Croce has wanted to be part of a group to buy the team for years. A shame that Snider is such a miserable prick egotist, Croce would be an owner I think the fans would get behind. He would at least generate some excitement about the team and breath some life into the product.

Pat Croce is a nice cheerleader and an excellent physical therapist, but the peoples love for him to me is purely 'pleasant memories'. Croce has failed numerous times sice he left Philadelphia, he's not a sports expert, or a good business man.

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 7 at 11:45
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I'm not even saying he's a great businessman. I'm just saying he's a guy that I know genuinely cares about the product, wants to win, would breath new life into the franchise.i think he would be a valuable part of an ownership group. A Cuban type for sure, maybe slightly less outspoken.

Cuban is a successful businessman, HUGELY successful and VERY smart - Croce is not HUGELY successful.

Pat Croce is a great fan - if they want a new mascot he'd kick ass - your assertions that he would have any impact on the intelligence of the franchise is lacking in my opinion. An 'breathe new life' is just such a silly saying

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johnrosz reply to GoSixers on Jun 7 at 11:50
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I'm actually only talking about him as a mascot. You don't think he'd generate interest in the team?

No i don't - because wins generate interest - competing for a title generates interest - not a freaking mascot.

Maybe we should talk about bringing Billy Cunningham back too?

I can't see what the problem is with having a guy who runs his business smartly as an owner. If you think any owner owns his team just for fun and doesn't view it as business you are wrong. Some are better at it, some are worse but the end game is the same. They are all businessmen.

Anyway if there really is a sale, we need to consider the immediate impact it may have on the team. Whether the new owner wants to spend or not is irrelevant in the immediate future. Team sales usually create a lot of problems when trying to make moves and signing players to contracts. The following questions will suddenly arise:

1) What happens with Thad and Hawes?
2) What happens with the Iguodala - Ellis trade rumour? Or any other Iguodala rumour for that matter. Does this make trading Iguodala more or less likely? And if it means it's more likely he is traded will he be traded in a trade that makes "basketball sense" or will it be some sort of a salary dump so that the new owner can start this team from scratch?
3) Will there be changes in the front office? Was hiring Thorn part of the sales process? for all we know the Sixers may have been secretly for sale for quite some time. The Sixers have shown in the past that they are as good at keeping secrets as anyone in the NBA, who says this hasn't been planned for a while...
4) What's the general direction of the team? will the new owner let Thorn do his thing or will he have larger influence on specifics? For example when Ted Leonsis bought the Wizards he decided he wanted to start from scratch...
5) What does this mean for the draft? Is it possible we may see the Sixers buying a pick? Or will they start selling them?

I gues we should've known all this. It was too quite for too long at the start of this offseason.

If that's how you feel you don't understand sports ownership in my opinion. It's not a business, it's a toy, it's something yo uwant to have because yo ucan afford it, and yo uwant your toy to be the best toy around.

If your PRIMARY goal in owning a sports team isn't winning a championship - you shouldn't own a sports team - it's not about Profit & Loss - it's about WINNING

And by the way - sometimes businesses are run to lose money on purpose - your narrow thinking is great - but there is the possibility that you're wrong - you know that right.

If the sixers are run so they make the most money but are the wors team in the league - will you think harris is an awesome owner. I mean he's making a profit - he's running it as a business and he's making more money than any team in the league - he's also 20-62 - are you going to say 'that's ok - he's running it as a business and thus i'm not going to complain about last place' - Somehow I bet you aren't.

If the first move isn't to hire a COMPETENT GM who has done something smart in the last five years - then it's just the same old same old.

Lots of fresher, more recently accomplished GM's out there over Thorn.

WINNING ~= PROFIT.

Are you saying winning = profit or does not equal? Confusing post.

If you're saying it equals profit, that's not necessarily the case, and it may be even less the case after the new CBA if owners get their way.

Not only that - for YEARS the clippers disprove that 'winning=profit'

I have no idea what your equation is supposed to mean ~= means nothing to me whatsoever.

You made this blanket assertions and I totally and completely disagree with it - I explained why - and your response is pithy and nonsensical.


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